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Portables Hardware

Ultralight Convertibles Approaching Desktop Performance 161

MojoKid writes Laptops with fully articulating hinges are starting to show up from more vendors than just Lenovo, though the company certainly got some mileage out of their Yoga brand of machines. Now it appears HP is getting in on the action as well, with the new HP Spectre X360 that's powered by Intel's new Core i5-5200U Broadwell-based processor with integrated Intel HD 5500 series graphics, along with 8GB of DDR3-1600 memory, a 256GB Solid State Drive (a Samsung M.2 PCIe SSD), 802.11ac WiFi, and a 13.3" Full HD (1920x1080) multi-touch screen. The Spectre X360 has a geared and spring-assisted hinges. The hinges swing open easily, and then offer more resistance as the screen is moved into an upright position, or swung around into tent, stand, or tablet modes. What's also interesting about this new breed of convertibles, beyond just its ability to contort into tablet mode and various other angles, is that performance for these ultralight platforms is scaling up nicely, with faster, low-power processors and M.2 PCIe Solid State Drives offering up a very responsive experience and under 10 second boot times. It has gotten to the point that 3 pound and under notebooks feel every bit as nimble as desktop machines, at least for mainstream productivity and media consumption usage models.
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Ultralight Convertibles Approaching Desktop Performance

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  • by innocent_white_lamb ( 151825 ) on Saturday March 07, 2015 @09:56PM (#49207743)

    If they will sell them without MS Windows (and the "secure" bios and so forth and so on) then I'll be interested.

    It used to be that I could zip down to Staples and purchase a laptop, bring it home, format it, install my favourite Linux version, and life would go on.

    The last time I tried that I spent TWO SOLID DAYS at Staples trying to find a laptop that would boot with my Linux "live cd" flash drive.

    I guess that the next time I need a laptop I'll have to mail order it from one of the Linux Laptop vendors that advertise online if I want something that will work properly.

    • by Kjella ( 173770 ) on Saturday March 07, 2015 @10:04PM (#49207785) Homepage

      The last time I tried that I spent TWO SOLID DAYS at Staples trying to find a laptop that would boot with my Linux "live cd" flash drive.

      You need to go into the BIOS and disable secure boot, then it should load on all of them. If it would boot your Linux distro it'd also boot whatever malware was trying to trojan Windows and that's exactly what they're trying to avoid. At least so far I haven't heard of any x86 machine where you can't do that, I'm sure that'd be major news both here and elsewhere if they started to block that.

      • by Duckman5 ( 665208 ) on Saturday March 07, 2015 @10:57PM (#49207983)

        You need to go into the BIOS and disable secure boot.

        You don't even need to do that if you pick your linux version properly. I just finished installing Sabayon/Linux [sabayon.org] on my Lenovo U430p laptop after I decided I was going to reformat it anyway because of the recent Superfish fiasco. We've had a working secure boot shim [dreamwidth.org] for over 2 years now. No need to disable secure boot. Red Hat and Ubuntu both support it as well if you're looking for something a little more mainstream. At worst you may need to register a key with the BIOS (I did for Sabayon), but I'm not sure you even need to do that with Red Hat since their shim is actually signed by MS.

        • Comment removed based on user account deletion
          • by Duckman5 ( 665208 ) on Sunday March 08, 2015 @12:51AM (#49208329)

            Seriously?! Which part of that doesn't take a month to understand for someone that just wants to zip down to staples and grab a laptop with the expectation the install media will "just work" like it always has done for the last decade?

            To use it, rename shim.efi to bootx64.efi and put it in /EFI/BOOT on your UEFI install media. Drop MokManager.efi in there as well. Finally, make sure your bootloader binary is called grubx64.efi and put it in the same directory.

            Now generate a certificate and put the public half as a binary DER file somewhere on your install media. On boot, the end-user will be prompted with a 10-second countdown and a menu. Choose "Enroll key from disk" and then browse the filesystem to select the key and follow the enrolment prompts. Any bootloader signed with that key will then be trusted by shim, so you probably want to make sure that your grubx64.efi image is signed with it.

            This part:

            Secure Boot bootloader for distributions available now
            Nov. 30th, 2012 07:51 pm

            That link, as the text following the hyperlink says, is an announcement from 2 years ago. I referenced it to show how long this software has been available for use in other distributions.
            Also, how many people who fit into your "just works" category are going to be making their own boot media? or managing their /boot partition manually? Zero. The hard part of those instructions are for the distribution maintainers. The second part is a one-time procedure of selecting "enroll-me.cer" from a list and then never doing it again. If you can select which partition you want to install your linux distro on, you can select which certificate to enroll.

        • Sabayon? Really? What's the point of using Gentoo if you're just going to poison it with systemd?
          • Umm..at this point I have no clue. I didn't even know it used SystemD until yesterday when I saw the configuration panel in KDE's System Settings. The documentation is kind of crap. I used Gentoo for years until I get fed up with a few broken ebuilds and used Ubuntu for a while.
            We'll see how it works out in the end. I really liked upstart when I was using it and don't care for how all-encompassing SystemD has become, but if it works, it works.
            • by rdnetto ( 955205 )

              I've been using Sabayon for a few years now - it's a nice combination of some fairly nice features (being able to mix entropy and portage, Gentoo-style config file management, fairly bleeding edge packages) and making other things just work (bumblebee, UEFI). I agree that the documentation is a bit weak (downside of a small community), but in practice the only difference from Gentoo is the package manager and default config. (The Arch wiki is also quite useful.)

              SystemD works pretty well once you get the han

              • Thanks. I appreciate the offer. I'm making progress figuring things out. Finally got my stupid Canon printer working with it's lame proprietary drivers. Took some doing, but I'm better off for it. I know have a better understanding of how deb containers work. :) Anyway...next project is to figure out how to actually add a password at startup for the filesystem encryption. I'm pretty sure I clicked the box that said I would add a password later...but now I can't figure out how to add a password. LOL. Now I'm
    • My YogaPro 3 works just fine with Ubuntu 14.04.

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward

        I just bought the Lenovo Edge Flex 15 and on Linux the Wifi card doesn't work, period. The only "fix" is to wait until 3.20 kernel adds support. Piece of shit OS or piece of shit Lenovo for not ensuring Linux compatibility? (Anyway, the keyboard sucks, so don't buy it)

        • by alantus ( 882150 )

          I just bought the Lenovo Edge Flex 15 and on Linux the Wifi card doesn't work, period. The only "fix" is to wait until 3.20 kernel adds support. Piece of shit OS or piece of shit Lenovo for not ensuring Linux compatibility? (Anyway, the keyboard sucks, so don't buy it)

          You could upgrade the wifi card to something that works in Linux and get 802.11ac at the same time.

          See page 39 of the hardware maintenance manual:
          http://download.lenovo.com/con... [lenovo.com]

          Just make sure you get a wifi card that is in the BIOS whitelist.
          The BIOS whitelist is a list of PCI devices that have been approved by Lenovo for each laptop. If not in the list, the BIOS will refuse to boot.
          This is just an imposed restriction by Lenovo, decent laptop makers don't do such a thing.

          • by Agripa ( 139780 )

            This is just an imposed restriction by Lenovo, decent laptop makers don't do such a thing.

            Isn't this part of FCC type acceptance? That is the excuse I have heard from the laptop makers.

      • My YogaPro 3 works just fine with Ubuntu 14.04.

        Well, does the screen brightness control work properly? At least my experience is that with most laptops the brightness goes multiple steps with one keypress in Ubuntu and other Debian-based distros.

    • by puto ( 533470 )
      Really? I could spend five minutes between the Staples site and the internet looking up model numbers and Linux compatibility. And with such a low UID you would know better... Did you get it off of Ebay?
  • by darkain ( 749283 ) on Saturday March 07, 2015 @09:58PM (#49207751) Homepage

    So, I personally don't follow performance numbers too much these days, but I just went and did a comparison of this "new" system against my current desktop (most components are 4-5 years old inside)

    Theirs:
    http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cp... [cpubenchmark.net]
    http://www.videocardbenchmark.... [videocardbenchmark.net]

    Mine:
    http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cp... [cpubenchmark.net]
    http://www.videocardbenchmark.... [videocardbenchmark.net]

    So, the thing barely tops my "ancient" (by today's standards) desktop computer for CPU performance. It has half the RAM (even my old 10" netbook has 8GB DDR3)

    Really, I think I'll just label this article as another #Slashvertisement.

    • by Anonymous Coward

      Yep,
          I thought legally that they were supposed to disclose such things as advertisements......

      • Yep, I thought ethically that they were supposed to disclose such things as advertisements......

        FTFY

        • by Anonymous Coward

          Ethics in marketing can be found right beside unicorns and the Loch Ness monster.

          • The point is that legally DICE can do whatever the fuck they want with this site. There is no law saying that any medium needs to label an advertisement as such. The reason newspapers don't try to pass ads off as legit news* stories is about journalistic ethics, not legal concerns.

            *well, this used to be true... [poynter.org]

    • by auzy ( 680819 ) on Saturday March 07, 2015 @10:52PM (#49207967)

      Exactly this. They are also barely upgradable, you need to pay 5x more for a laptop with decent specs, and many have weird linux compatibility issues in Linux, whereas most desktop's just work (on my Asus for instance, the I need to send a kernel parameter so it doesn't think my wifi is turned off).

      And, they will wear out faster, be less maintainable, etc. Lets revisit this story when laptops are modular.

      • The whole thing is inherently silly. Laptops have ALWAYS "approached" desktop performance. Then desktops get better.

        Nothing to see here. Move along now.
      • but it doesnt have to be like this, its because the manufacturers have been pushing the ultrabook class cpus into everything because they are cheap.

        for example, you used to be able to get this processor in a 600-700$ laptop
        http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cp... [cpubenchmark.net]

        That is 3x the performance of these U series processors. It even matches my 2600k. However since the U's are much cheaper, and as stated in the summary, most users wont even know the difference since all they do is surf and watch movies

    • Performance hasn't increased that much over the last couple of years. Mainly power consumption and die size decreased and GPUs have been integrated, most laptops come with SSDs, but other than that things just aren't that much faster. It's not like the late 90s where you went from a Pentium 66mhz to 3ghz in practically no time.

      • I remember the 90s. It felt like you couldn't get a PC home from the shop before it was considered obsolete.

        • Smart phones are tapering out faster but they went through a similar effect. the processor and gpu of the original iPhone vs any smart phone now for example.

          • And are reaching the same point. The upgrade cycle is lengthening. Manufacturers are having to turn to fashion as their model to drive sales now.

    • Exactly what i was thinking and i'am grateful you did the tests to prove it.
      If only i had some mod points to use.

    • by Sycraft-fu ( 314770 ) on Sunday March 08, 2015 @07:55AM (#49209019)

      Yes, laptops, even smartphones, are always "approaching desktop performance"... for some older definition of desktop performance. Same shit is true even of super computers. The original super computer, the Cray 1, pulled about 80 Mflops of performance. Most high end smartphones these days pull in the realm of 500+ Mflops. So they are more powerful than a supercomputer!!!! ... well than a super computer from the 70s.

      Same deal with this laptop and desktops. Yes even small laptops compete with desktops of a few years ago. However that isn't what desktops of today are like. Those are moving targets as well and they've gotten much faster. How useful that is you can argue and can vary person to person, but trying to act like these small laptops are anywhere near them is silly. You can get desktops today with 8 cores, 64GB of RAM, and multiple large video cards if you wish. No ultralight is coming anywhere near that. Now in 5-10 years? They may well be there... and desktops will be somewhere else.

      Desktops will always be more powerful simply because they have a higher electrical and thermal budget. Sticking a 90-150 watt CPU and 200+ watt GPU in a desktop is no big deal. Trying to stick that in a laptop is a recipe for disaster.

    • yep a mobile i5 is not going to beat an i7 or a xenon
  • by ganjadude ( 952775 ) on Saturday March 07, 2015 @09:58PM (#49207761) Homepage
    I love it, I really do. The specs on portables have come a long way from my first inspiron back in 2001. but plain and simple I dont ever see laptops competing with desktops. They both have their purposes. and they both excel at different things. A desktop should be powerful, have large/multiple screens. Sure the laptop is powerful enough now adays but you wont ever get the cooling you can with a desktop which limits what you can put in them.

    So while approaching DT performance might be a proper analysis, i dont think laptops can replace desktops
    • Most of our customers only use email and surf the web. Any new laptop works perfectly fine for them. They may not represent society overall. But, they sure love their laptops.
      • exactly! I should have clarified. laptops are good enough for most people these days. hell i use my laptop 10X my desktop but for the things i need my desktop for (cad, editing, gaming) a laptop simply cannot compete.
        • consoles are superior to desktops because you get the living room "lean back" experience and a console is 10x cheaper than a bleeding edge gaming rig.

          • sure, if you play FPS games and thats about it. anything else the consoles ignore today with the exception of madden it seems 90% of console games are FPS, which i frankly hate with a passion
          • A bleeding edge gaming rig is just a set of very expensive not-much-faster-than-midrange parts. Besides, anything marketed "gaming" is very overpriced. You can get a very decent PC for 2x what the consoles cost. That PC will play 95% of games perfectly. The rest will work ok if you dial the settings a bit. It does does many more things that a console. Also the games are cheaper on PC and in PCs backwards compatibility goes back as far as 30 years. In consoles, if you're lucky you can play the games of the p
            • This

              Also the games being cheaper on a PC is a huge factor if your looking at it from a gaming/price stand point. If your willing to wait 6mo you can have the same title on PC for 10-15$ or even less vs. still paying 50-60 for a console version. After a few games the price difference in hardware between a console and pc vanishes. then your left with what is still a vast cheap library of games and a piece of hardware that is incrementally upgradable

    • by Kjella ( 173770 ) on Saturday March 07, 2015 @11:00PM (#49207995) Homepage

      So while approaching DT performance might be a proper analysis, i dont think laptops can replace desktops

      Not to be mean, but it already did. Far more people have a laptop and no desktop than the other way around. If you add tablets too they together have 80% of the market, desktops 20%. Apart from the performance, you can always hook up a laptop to a keyboard, mouse and external screen. And as for performance, it's probably equal to a 2005 desktop which is plenty for most people. Sure it won't replace my gaming rig or anyone else doing "serious" computing at home, but we're in a very tiny minority. Heck, I think that apart from the interface a smartphone has enough computing power for a lot of people. If you look at the Steam Hardware Survey 19% now use Intel, even among gamers it's not all hardcore.

      • while I cannot disagree with a word you said. I was not talking about the masses per se. there is still a bunch of people who need that power, music people movie people cad guys. all need the power that a desktop has that a laptop cannot match yet (ok maybe music can get by on a laptop these days)
        • by dwywit ( 1109409 )

          Yep - and not just power, but storage. High-def video footage takes a lot of space, and it's not sensible to have your OS +programs on the same physical disk as your footage, and it's even better to have a multi-disk RAID for footage (RAID 5/6?), AND a separate disk for renders. Can't see them putting 3 or more drives in a laptop anytime soon.

          I've spoken to a number of people who want to edit/produce their own videos, but the most complaints come from people using laptops, i.e. OS + programs, footage, and

      • Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • So while approaching DT performance might be a proper analysis, i dont think laptops can replace desktops

        Not to be mean, but it already did. Far more people have a laptop and no desktop than the other way around.

        Well I suppose it depends on how you frame the question. If w go with the "Honey Boo-Boo" effect, lowest common denominator becomes the ruling factor, we are mostly all just consuming content on our smartphones so there is absolutely no need for even a laptop, and I have read articles on just that. The smartphone is going to replace all of your computers, plus your camera, plus your wallet.

        If we ignore market share, and go with performance - then smartphones and tablets and even laptops start to fall a l

    • "A desktop should be powerful,"
      All of my real work is done on compute servers in the data center that is climate controlled with redundant power and networking. I don't care how much local processing I have as long as I can be editing one deck of slides while I have one pivot table open without closing VNC and Remote Desktop.

      "have large/multiple screens."
      I'm driving three displays when I plug in at work. My main constraints on going to four are desk space to set them down and strain on my neck from turning

    • I just find it amusing that someone thinks Intel HD graphics "approaches desktop performance".
  • http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_dream-2665.php/ [gsmarena.com] The first Android phone, a design now hard to find.

    They got it right from the first. If anyone knows a phone with the same design but more power, please let me know here.
    G1, G1 clone, G1clone, 5row keyboard, Android Keyboard Phone.
    • link broken
    • The best full keyboard QWERTY Android phones currently available are the Droid 4 or the Samsung Galaxy Relay 4G. I have the latter, and at this point--even with Cyanogenmod 11 installed, which removes a lot of the stock bloatwear--it's barely usable.
  • by Art3x ( 973401 ) on Saturday March 07, 2015 @10:18PM (#49207825)

    Just like snydeq [slashdot.org] always posts links to InfoWorld, MojoKid [slashdot.org] always posts links to Hot Hardware.

  • That is also done with a 5 year old Dell/Toshiba/HP laptop. Not really a high bar to get over.
  • by gman003 ( 1693318 ) on Saturday March 07, 2015 @11:09PM (#49208025)

    Sure, maybe it's competitive with a bottom-end office desktop, where the most intense thing it has to run is Youtube.

    But it's competitive with a $500 desktop [pcpartpicker.com], while it costs $1000. It's not hard to get similar performance when you literally double your budget.

  • by Chirs ( 87576 ) on Saturday March 07, 2015 @11:37PM (#49208113)

    I work with OpenStack, and regularly want to simulate 3+ VMs on my laptop. I've got 16GB of RAM, and could use twice that, but almost no laptops support 4 DIMM slots. (You pretty much have to get the mobile workstation ones, and they cost a lot.)

    • by swb ( 14022 )

      I wonder if any manufacturer of highly integrated platforms like laptops, tablets, NUCs, etc, has thought about a "prosumer" line of products tailored to those kinds of needs. At the end of the day, I don't think it needs gross enhancement -- support for more RAM and possibly a second NIC.

      The "workstation" laptop seems just overwrought -- they're too big and too expensive.

      Personally, I'd like to do a VMware cluster on NUC but would really appreciate a second NIC.

      It's kind of too bad that USB3 can't get mor

    • Why would you want to simulate a VM?

      Also, non-pedantic question: Why are you using a laptop for this? Why not use a desktop/server, which seems more appropriate for your needs?

  • by emblemparade ( 774653 ) on Sunday March 08, 2015 @12:03AM (#49208185)

    "Nimble" does not mean that it performs well.

    If "mainstream productivity" refers to word processing and web browsing, you are fine. But if you're doing photo, video, audio editing, heavy software compilation, scientific simulation or other work, fast boot times are not what you're after. Gaming, too, why not CPU-heavy usually, demands GPUs that only high-end, very expensive laptops can deliver.

    Yes, laptops keep getting better, but so do workstations. For the same money, you get much more bang from a desktop as compared to a laptop.

    The real story is how well the bottom has reached decent levels for "mainstream productivity." 5 years ago, a $200 netbook was really disappointing in terms of everyday performance: web browsing was slow, video playback was choppy at higher resolutions, and even word processing could get laggy. These days, machines at that price range are totally acceptable. Entry-level laptops like the Acer E3 or the HP Stream 11 are surprisingly good. Unless you're doing "workstation" work, they won't feel any slower than a laptop that costs 10 times as much.

    I think that might actually be what this article is clumsily trying to say.

  • I'm sure these computers are fabulous. I'm equally sure they'll burn out in two or three years...or less. Meanwhile, I've got a seven year old desktop PC that has never been shut off for any length of time, only rebooted.

    It's fine. Yes, I have a more up-to-date machine, which I use when I need it. It will eventually take its place as my reliable backup, when the old one finally croaks...if it ever does.

  • by DrJimbo ( 594231 ) on Sunday March 08, 2015 @12:07AM (#49208207)

    Speaking of Slashvertisements, I'm running Linux on a Dell 11" 3147 two-in-one. I can use it as a small laptop machine and I can also use it for watching Netflix in the tablet configuration. Although the two-in-one is thicker and heavier than a tablet, it can be better than a tablet for watching videos because there are several configurations where the keyboard acts like a stand so you don't have to constantly hold it.

    For me, it was $260 well spent (via the Dell outlet store). I'm pleased with the device even though the Linux support is merely adequate. No multi-touch for the touchscreen and I can't access the accelerometer. AFAIK, everything else works. I wrote little scripts to rotate the display and disable the keyboard and touchpad. I get over 5 hours of battery life while mostly watching videos. I like that the Linux desktop and/or virtual consoles are only a click or two away because I like to tinker. There are a bunch of hardware improvements that would be nice, starting with a lighted keyboard, but for the price, I'm not complaining.

    IMO, if the price is decent you might as well buy a laptop with a touchscreen that folds all the way back. I think it is a good use of resources and it makes the device much more versatile. For me personally it is better than a separate tablet and laptop. I may never buy another laptop that doesn't convert to tablet mode.

  • Fantastic. They're still twice as likely to break as a desktop and on average cost double to fix. The battery still fails in 1-2 years and costs over $100 to replace with a genuine original. The screen is torture to anyone below 20/20 vision. I may be biased since I fix computers all day every day professionally but I hate laptops. Desktops are real computers.
    • Re:Wait a minute (Score:4, Insightful)

      by ihtoit ( 3393327 ) on Sunday March 08, 2015 @04:38AM (#49208717)

      oh?

      Here's a few black swans for you.

      I have a stack of Dell Latitude laptops ranging from a CP PII/233 (A REAL COMPUTER) up to an Inspiron 8200 P4/2.0 (A REAL COMPUTER), that all use the same batteries. The youngest battery I have for them that still holds charge, is marked with an incept date of March 2006. The oldest battery I have is marked incept November 1999. It charges to 26% of nominal capacity and runs the CP for about twenty minutes. Replacements cost £36 a pop (in 2006) for the 4400mAh packs - from Dell.

      My Asus EeePC 1008HA (A REAL COMPUTER) is four years old (purchased May 2011). The battery charges to 53% nominal and I get six hours out of that watching video. Replacement would cost about £35 - from Asus. But I'm not in a rush for that as I get to watch a couple movies on the train to Scotland without having to plug in.

      My Toshiba (A REAL COMPUTER) is about the same age as the Asus (A REAL COMPUTER) (purchased March 2011). Battery is good for about three to four hours, don't know what it charges to - probably about 60% even though I totally abuse it. Replacement? No idea.

      I can get practically any laptop keyboard for less than £50. They are necessarily built ot a much higher quality than desktop keyboards because for one thing they form part of the structure. A DECENT wireless keyboard (eg a Dell Bluetooth MM) costs about the same. You want to go cheap? Go nuts, tell me how long your £4 piece of shit Xenta or Kensington lasts.

      FWIW I not only fixed computers on a daily basis from 2002-2008, I designed and built them as well. Even after retirement I still found myself designing, specifying orders and building the things. It's as much as thing as breathing once you've been touched by it, is PC design.

  • Now there's marketing-speak for you - putting something on a table in a funny way is now a "mode."

    I'm not sitting down, I'm in "chair mode"!

  • A $1200 laptop has barely the same power as a $200 desktop. What is this, the year 2000? This isn't news. This is just how laptops/desktops have always been.
  • Until, this series, my 3-year old 2520m was faster than any U series processor. The current crop just edges out a 3-year old chip. The intel integrated GPU is still a boat anchor, and if anyone thinks that a GPU like that is going to keep up with a good desktop GPU--even like the defamed GTX 570, then they are out of their minds.

  • 1. buy a stupid slow cheap laptop

    2. remote desktop to your beast pc

    3. enjoy working with desktop power from the coffeeshop

    caveats: bandwidth, security, and i am using my remote pc for programming, not gaming/ photoshop/ movie editing/ etc

    biggest caveat: i really need multiple screens. it was a fun experiment, but not every day

  • ow do they define "productivity models"? The last big company I worked for defined "productivity applications" as things like Outlook e-mail (so your boss could get in touch with you whenever) and calendars (so your boss could see what you were up to). Real work got done on UNIX workstations.

  • A laptop is competitive with a desktop right up until the time it fails because of marginal cooling. Then it becomes competitive with a brick.

It's a naive, domestic operating system without any breeding, but I think you'll be amused by its presumption.

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