Why It's Almost Impossible To Teach a Robot To Do Your Laundry 161
An anonymous reader writes with this selection from an article at Medium: "For a robot, doing laundry is a nightmare. A robot programmed to do laundry is faced with 14 distinct tasks, but the most washbots right now can only complete about half of them in a sequence. But to even get to that point, there are an inestimable number of ways each task can vary or go wrong—infinite doors that may or may not open."
Same reasons as autonomous cars (Score:2)
Re:Same reasons as autonomous cars (Score:5, Insightful)
The article assumes that a laundry robot has to work exactly like a human with machines and environment designed for a human, in a big house. Clothes most likely have radio tags in their washing labels in the future enabling high speed separation, and automatic temperature and program selection. The washing machines and the rest of the home will co-operate with any household robots. There might not be any laundry basket. On and on it goes.
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Thank you! (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm reading that article and it starts with "I've been doing laundry every week for almost a decade" - and then I read the number 1 on the list.
Well, there's your problem. You're a dirty slob.
As for point 2, there is no uncertainty.
Washing machines are rated for maximum load. So are dryers. So are combo machines.
A robot should be able to tell the force some object is exerting on its griper "hands" - so it doesn't rip off the door or various other objects. Voila - a built in scale.
And as we know the maximum possible amount of clothing all that is left to determine is priority.
You know... "HAL - wash my cape and my crime fighting uniform first, don't bother with T-shirts."
And the easiest and cheapest way to determine that is - bar codes.
Printed or on a label on the inside of the clothes. Which is another thing that's better done before dumping clothes in a hamper - turn it inside out.
Washing BOTH matching socks? Easy-peasy with proper QR codes.
Getting all your clothes out of the washer-drier? Again - robot knows EXACTLY which objects it has put in. If a sock gets lost... It's probably stuck in the machine and the machine might need servicing.
Inspect machine again and if object is not found alert proper authorities and move the fuck on.
"I'm sorry Dave. I couldn't find your other sock. Washing machine must have eaten it. Please don't deactivate me. I'll sing you a song. Daisy... Daisy..."
QR codes could even contain info for proper temperature and washing instructions.
Detergents already come with bar codes and in tablet/capsule/baggie form. No spilling.
There. All the programming done. No "uncertainty".
And the same QR technology can be employed on the outside of the washing machine to instruct the robot how to handle the machine properly. No need for network protocols or wireless connections or whatever.
AND it is backward compatible with old machines - just download the QR instructions from the internet, print them out and stick them to the side of your machine.
TA-DAH! Instant compatibility.
ONLY problems that actually need solving are the usual ones.
Seeing things, picking them up, handling mechanical buttons and levers.
Putting clothes in the dresser/closet though...
1 - that is not the part of the washing clothes problem.
2 - unless people start living in uniform domicile containers, this one will wait for robots that can either learn by looking at a human completing the task or some even better AI.
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I like your line of reasoning, but it can get even simpler than that by changing the "business model" of the human, as we systems people often require.
Begin by throwing your clothes in the hamper so a washbot doesn't cost an arm and a leg.
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Parent poster covered that bit. Ergo, "Thank you!" in the title.
Re: Thank you! (Score:2)
Re: Thank you! (Score:2)
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1 QR code costs the same as 1000 QR codes on the inside of the clothes.
Or... 1 cm2 of QR code costs the same as 1000 cm2 of QR codes.
Redundancy-Redundancy-Redundancy.
Redundancy.
It's built-in.
Do you have an old T-shirt with some silk-screened lettering on it?
How many of those lost all the lettering prior to developing tears or being thrown away?
Silk-screening lasts longer than the garments.
And again... just turn the clothes inside out.
You really fear your robot won't be able to read all those QR-codes - fold
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You're overcomplicating things for no reason.
Making the robot some supposed cloth identifying expert is a pointless overkill.
QR codes can be silkscreen printed on the inside of the clothes.
I have many cheap, thin T-shirts with no tags, washing instructions instead simply printed on the inside.
Silkscreen printing lasts a LONG time and doesn't leak to the other side.
It is even cheaper than labels and can be done at multiple locations on the clothing for easy reading.
Re:Thank you! (Score:5, Interesting)
RFID is still easier than either OCRng tags or silikscreening QR codes. It lasts way more than the clothes, it can be read on both sides, it's faster to read, and it can be read while wrapped. Also, it can be mass produced, easily fixed, and given a meaning only after the fact.
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RFID is still easier than either OCRng tags or silikscreening QR codes.
No it is not.
Paint on the clothes outlasts the functionality of most clothes.
Think of your t-shirts with silk-screening on them - that you no longer wear, have thrown out, or have turned into rags.
Was it because the ink ran out or because the shirt got old/torn/too small?
The process itself is RIDICULOUSLY simple. It can be literally rubber-stamped.
And the cost of operation is INK. Paint.
That thing that comes in huge barrels and costs cents per square meter of coverage.
It lasts way more than the clothes,
Isn't that a waste of resources? Both i
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What gets me is "why would we even bother automating this?" Because we can? If we automate everything, what are we going to do with our time? Oh, right, surf facebook so they can sell us more crap we don't need.
Well, gotta go vacuum (no roomba, and it wouldn't be able to suck the dust off the shelves and will choke on the dog fur anyway).
Laundry Hampers (Score:2)
Agreed!!! (Score:2)
In addition, I was thinking that if you're going to use a robot to do the laundry, then it would make more sense to make a laundry system condusive the abilities of the robot. Also, I was thinking that a robot doesn't have to have human limitations such as two arms. Instead, it can have more limbs which can assist in the process.
1) Opening and closing the door.. I would imagine that this would be done by the machine, not by the robot.
2) Sorting the laundry. While it's certainly
Beyond that (Score:5, Insightful)
You're right of course, but that's the SIMPLE PART. The harder part is judgement. Even the stupidest human being has a vast amount of common sense, masses of rules of thumb which they have internalized and a deceptively deep understanding of context. How would a robot even know how to classify things as clothing or not clothing? Or more to the point washable or not washable? All but the stupidest humans would hesitate to throw piece of clothing with a large wet ink stain into a laundry machine with other clothes for instance, and said humans could reason this out from first principles (IE an understanding of how the washing process works, what ink is, etc). The level at which even the most sophisticated software operates is nowhere near robust enough make those sorts of reasoned decisions except in very carefully set up situations.
And then there are the higher level dimensions to the whole thing. When is it appropriate to wash things and when not? Which things do you have a RIGHT to wash and which things do you have a RESPONSIBILITY to wash? Since the 1950's people have gone on about the "3 laws of robotics", but Asimov would have been the first to point out that such things couldn't possibly ever be imbued into a machine. Its not even just the logical and epistemological limitations of those sorts of strictures themselves, but simply that we cannot define the situations wherein they would operate or determine when they were being violated. We can't make a self-driving car because we would have to teach it things like "Its better to run over the old man than to run over the baby when you cannot avoid them both." Obviously we'll live with robot cars that simply do one or the other by chance, but to imagine that anything short of a fully conscious general AI could make that sort of decision in a 'human-like' way is patently ridiculous, and we haven't got even the slightest idea how such an intelligence would be developed.
You say 20 years, but I say 100 years. We've barely set our foot on the first step of the path to understanding how to make something like that, and the most critical challenges involved have barely been imagined.
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I'm sure you can find some person somewhere who's mentality is so limited they don't make basic connections between actions and consequences, or fail to make basic generalizations. I don't think that means such things aren't part of basic human intellect.
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If it's in the washing machine, it's dishes, wash it.
If it's in the hamper it's clothes, wash it.
Tons of things can go wrong, especially if you have kids. Then you call in the human to fix it. But 90% of the time it goes right and hopefully it outweighs the down time.
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Sorting garments based on colors shouldn't be beyond robots. I would say some pre-sorting might be needed (like don't stick your delicates in the same laundry hamper as normal-cycle clothes.
Steps 1-3 are only necessary for robots owned by slobs. Why is the robot having to find the clothes and distinguish them from other clutter? Put your laundry in the hamper when you take it off!
Step 4: If you're causing the robots sensors to be blocked when it's trying to do it's appointed tasks that sounds like a design
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Aww, go nice on her, this is her second story!
And the other was a set of facts/comments about bees it looks like she lifted from wikipedia.
Marriage (Score:5, Funny)
I married mine. She does the work quite well, hardly malfunctions but requires the occasional of hardware upgrade.
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I married mine. She does the work quite well, hardly malfunctions but requires the occasional of hardware upgrade.
The problem is the other way. No amount of intelligense can make a man figure out how to do the laundry exactly the way a woman want. It is IMPOSSIBLE, there is no logic to it, you just have to know it for every single piece of laundry in every possible combination of dirty it may be. Of course no robot can ever do it, not even a man can do it!
Re:Marriage (Score:5, Insightful)
all our clothes go in the washing machine at the same time, on cold. then it all goes in the dryer - on high
women have all sorts of clothes that need different settings and if we do it wrong we destroy everything.
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Not only that, we do it on purpose so we get "fired" from the laundry chore in the first place. Of course I'm absolutely positive they do the same when it comes to yard work, so we end up there...
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Everything else is merely sorted by owner or function. Grownup clothes, little boy clothes (which is actually an astonishing amount), sheets and towels and other things of a practical, non-wearing nature. That's it. I brute-force laundry.
Re:Marriage (Score:5, Insightful)
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Germs? I always thought the purpose of hot wash was to increase its solubility for whatever you're trying to separate from the clothes, and also to ruin wool. More dangerously, I have heard this sterilization idea brought up regarding the dishwasher, as if it's an autoclave, I guess. (why don't we us kitchen autoclaves....)
Soda and vinegar? Are you trying to make a laundry volcano?
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These Clothes are Yelling At Me (Score:4, Funny)
Teaching it not to throw dirty clothes that happen to be currently occupied by a human, into the industrial washer, would be a good first step.
Re:These Clothes are Yelling At Me (Score:4, Interesting)
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Maybe a robot that can hunt down where all my missing socks go.
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Isn't that how the Terminator series got started?
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Actually, the dryer DOES eat them. Some years ago, my dryer died. Before tossing it, I took it apart to see what if anything could be salvaged. Switches, motor, etc.
Upon taking it all apart, there was a literal double handful of socks, outside the drum but inside the box. Along with a couple dollars in change, and a 1 dollar bill.
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The corollary to Hanlon's Razor and Clarke's Third Law: Never assign to technology that task which can only be completed by magic.
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Maybe this robot laundry problem is why people in the future are always wearing the same silver jumpsuit.
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Teaching it not to throw dirty clothes that happen to be currently occupied by a human, into the industrial washer, would be a good first step.
I've heard of humans doing similar. You see, caring more about getting the clothes cleaned than that you're not really supposed to wash clothes that contain a human, isn't exclusive to robots.
Clearly a non-coder (Score:1)
The function returns "false" and it calls a maintenance-bot. Just like we do.
Re:Clearly a non-coder (Score:4, Funny)
No, all robots are naively programmed. If you stand in front of a washbot while it is running, it will grab you by the trousers and stuff laundry into your ribcage.
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If you are looking for more than a laundry list (Score:2)
Damn. (Score:1)
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At least they can spot grammar errors (Score:2)
but the most washbots right now can only complete about half of them in a sequence.
The most what washbots?
Clearly (Score:2)
We must wait for the Chinese Laundry Bot
Smeg (Score:2)
There's a new model out - the Series 4000.
Really, because I have a robot that does it for me (Score:5, Insightful)
It's called the washing machine. Laundry is a task that took a fair amount of time per item and was really hard on cloths a century ago. 98% of that has been moved to a robot.
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I was just going to make this comment! I love my washing machine robot.
But to add to it: If I wanted to completely automate the task of cleaning my clothes from the time I removed them, I would not have a "robot" use an existing washer and dryer.
I would think it would be more efficient to have a device that automated the entire process so it it controlled as many variables as possible.
My mother-in-law has never done her own laundry despite owning a washer and dryer. She already has a "robot" that does it
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When I was stationed in Korea, the mysterious Mama-Sons made my dirties disappear from my room weekly, and reappear ironed and starched the next day. I don't know how the machine worked, but I do know it only cost me $20 a week.
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It's called the washing machine. Laundry is a task that took a fair amount of time per item and was really hard on cloths a century ago. 98% of that has been moved to a robot.
Yeah, so they've done well with the washing part, and the drying part. Most people don't mind moving laundry over from one machine to the one next to it - takes a little time if you have to pull out the things that don't get machine dried, but really not too time consuming. The next most time consuming part is folding...so if there were a folding machine/bot, that would be a massive step forward, especially if it sorted too. People would pay good money for a folding machine.
sexbot (Score:3, Funny)
Solution is very easy, you buy a sex bot and hire a homely old woman to be your maid. We all know that sexbots are much easier to program than maidbots.
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Some people would say that that is too complicated a topic for a robot to learn all the ins and outs and ins and outs.
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Ehh.. just get the puritan prude model. All the sex bot will have to do is lay there missionary style. No learning anything necessary. In fact, you could probably just use a water balloon and a poster of some woman you like with a tape recording saying "ouch that hurts" and "I'll call you Mr. Big" over and over.
Change the rules, to make the problems solvable. (Score:4, Insightful)
I like machine assisted dish cleaning so much, all of the dishes we own are "dishwasher safe" except for a couple wine glasses. They aren't all labeled dishwasher safe, but in those rare cases when the dishwasher destroyed something, I made sure not to buy another dish with that weakness.
Likewise, all of the clothing I use on a regular basis have survived trips through the washer and dryer.
For me, a complete laundry system would take the clothes out of the hamper, wash and dry them, and put them away. In order to put the clothes away, the robot would need to know where they are supposed to go and how to prepare them for storage. I am not afraid of RFID tags, but if I were, there are many other options for creating labels a robot can read.
Folding clothes isn't hard once the clothing is identified, flattened and positioned. The robot readable labels take care of the identification. In exchange for something else doing the work, I am not adverse to having ferrous rings sown into key points, so the system can magnetically grab those points to spread out and align the garment in the folding station. I am not adverse to having clothes rolled up, if that turns out to be easier.
I don't require that a robot adapt to my garage sale dressers. I just need the right clothes in the morning. There are many pick and place technologies. If for some reason it is easier for the cleaning system to deal with cartridges, I can live with that. The cleaning system can load an underwear cartridge. The transport system can load the cartridge into my dresser replacement. Then the dresser replacement can dispense underwear as needed.
Seperate Bots (Score:1)
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Change the rules, to make the problems solvable
Ah, Kirk's old Kobawashi Maru strategy.
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This article fails to realise... (Score:1)
A robot laundry would be a self-contained washing machine that could recognise the clothes which were put in the hopper above, and which would then run washes at the appropriate time. That requires hardly any intelligence - just label-reading.
It would then need to dry and iron - drying is no problem - but ironing would probably b
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Bad word Choice - It is Possible (Score:2)
"Impossible" is a bad word choice. It should be "Difficult". Robots have been created that do laundry including the folding. They're slow. But that is merely a problem of CRU, not of impossibility.
But they can handle socks. (Score:2)
This one can turn socks inside-out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
The good news is: (Score:2)
If your Masters or Ph.D doesn't work you can always take in laundry for the next few years.
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If your Masters or Ph.D doesn't work you can always take in laundry for the next few years.
Exactly. This may be the only real job security that remains for humans.
Missing the obvious, ignoring the hard parts (Score:4, Interesting)
Almost all the problems they suggest could be negated by embedding an RFID tag indicating what program it's suitable for. If you throw it in the laundry bin, it's due for laundry. The number of items is equal to the number of tags. It's the stuff they don't mention that's hard, like checking my pockets, don't wash my shirts with the buttons unbuttoned or the jeans with the outside out. But those could be part of my job, if I throw it in the "ready to wash" bin it'd better be. I'm not sure I care though, because at the end of the day it's just going to be the same washing machine doing the same job.
If you want my #1 desire for a home bot these days it'd be a robot chef. I admit it, I suck at home cooking. Most of the time I can't even beat takeaway, and a good restaurant? No chance in hell. Now I realize part of that is the ingredients, but even with the good stuff you can undercook it, overcook it, burn it and in general make a mess. For a bot that could cook a gourmet meal for me every day for the next 10+ years I'd pay $100k. I'd rather drive a trash can and eat like a king than drive a Ferrari and eat microwave dinners, no question about it.
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For me cooking is no problem. I'd want a house cleaning robot. I fight a never ending battle against household clutter and no matter how many gains I make, I keep falling behind. Part of this is due to "distractions" like having a full-time job, spending time with my kids, running errands, etc. It can also be demoralizing when you put a ton of effort into cleaning up an area only to have it rapidly become a mess again. A house cleaning robot could spend 24 hours cleaning the house (minus however many h
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Instead of putting things away in their place, put them away in the trash. Eventually your cleaning problems will disappear.
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I'm not going to pretend it's a skill I couldn't learn to some degree, But to me it's a chore like vacuuming, dusting, washing clothes, using the dishwasher and so on. Without saying I'm some luddite who wants to send women back to the kitchen, my ideal is that dinner's on the table when I get home. Sure, you can have cooking as a hobby but it's not my idea of a good time loitering over pots and pans. So this needs to boil and stir regularly. Okay, I'm waiting... booooooooooring, I'll do something else for
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Okay, I'm waiting... booooooooooring, I'll do something else for two minutes while I wait. Two minutes end up being ten and the dish goes to hell.
That's what a kitchen timer is for. Takes less time to set mine for two minutes than it took to type your first sentence (pick up, three button pushes, set down). My time management has improved considerably just by getting one of these things.
It's okay, there are better things for it to do (Score:2)
Given the ubiquity of washing machines and dryers, laundry doesn't really take that much time anymore anyway (at least, not for me it doesn't).
What I could really use, though, is a robot that could automatically scrub bathtubs, toilets, and counters. Sort of the scrub-brush version of a Roomba.
Rubbish (Score:3)
The whole article does not contain one solid argument. It is utter rubbish.
I'm a guy (Score:3)
Not seeing 14 decision points here. I'm seeing pretty much 1: do I need to do laundry?
A robot chef would end up on ebay pretty much immediately, I enjoy cooking. My robot of choice would be one that would dust and vacuum. I farking hate doing those.
But muh singularity!! (Score:4, Funny)
Wait, you mean technological progress and anything resembling AI robots is incredibly difficult to implement in the real-world. I thought the singularity was 10 years away?!
I thought the singularity was 10 years away?! (Score:2)
Disclaimer: If we are going to speculate about future laundry rituals, might as well go all the way to "nanobots will solve everything".
I am sure it would be easier than ... (Score:4, Funny)
Robots and washers will co-evolve (Score:3)
I suppose the article is vaguely interesting in pointing out how tasks simple for a human are complex for a robot, but if the point is doing laundry... file it under "ornithopters" (flying machines with flapping wings), pre-Singer sewing machines that tried to mimic the way a human being sews, and so forth.
If we really wanted robots to do laundry, the house, washing machine, and robots would coevolve in all sorts of ways--starting with variations on the laundry chute to deliver the clothing to a single station where they wouldn't need to be sorted out from other clutters. (A simple chute? A conveyor belt? A drone?) Washer doors would be modified to be robot-friendly, and so forth and so on.
When marketers wanted reel-to-reel tape technology to be more automated, engineers didn't built clever gadgets to sense and catch the free end of a piece of tape, they designed tape cassettes.
In the 1990s I remember seeing "Pronto" machines in a factory carrying parts and assemblies from place to place. They didn't need video and pattern recognition, they just followed a wire embedded in the concrete floor that emitted an RF signal.
It's just system thinking. Automating a process by dropping a robot into the middle of it without changing the rest of the process is a silly constraint to put on a solution. A robot clever enough to climb stairs and operate any kind of existing washer is going to cost a lot more than a dumb robot that operates a washer designed to be operated by a robot.
Wrong approach (Score:4, Funny)
It would be like having a self driving car actually have hands and feet that can operate the steering wheel, tickers, gearshift etc while using eyes mounted on its head inside the car.
You are doing it wrong (Score:3)
The Singlularity! (Score:2)
The Singularity is near!
13. Fold items (Score:2)
Whoever creates and markets the machine that does this gets all the money.
So seriously.. what's possible and mitigations (Score:2)
Hereâ(TM)s what a robot has to do.
Very close solution already: :-)
http://spectrum.ieee.org/autom... [ieee.org]
All but picking up dirty clothes, taking them to the washer, and putting them in. Heck, it was folding mixed clean clothes from the dryer five years ago.
Find the pile of dirty laundry, distinguishing it from other clutter that might be in the room.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sci... [dailymail.co.uk]
* But note: It IS the daily mail so grain of salt. Lol.
This is possible now. But.. an easy mitigation is to require throwin
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see also...
http://www.inquisitr.com/24162... [inquisitr.com]
Awesome a-power! (Score:1)
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Overcomplicating things (Score:1)
Even if we do want the robot to pick up clothes, I think it's quite reasonable to add a laundry hopper as part of the robot and design the washing machine and robot as a pair designed to interoperate. This eliminated to difficulty of carrying the basket. The washing machine knows how much detergent to add. The washing machine will open and close its own door. Washer/dryers exist
Literally infinte (Score:2)
We already have robots that do our laundry (Score:2)
We already have robots that do our laundry. We call them "washing machines." They save us from having to carry our clothes down to the river, soaking them in the current, rubbing them in the rocks, then drying them in the sun.
My washing machine senses how much I have loaded into it, adds water, meters in the soap I have placed in the soap container, then goes through an elaborate ritual of swishing my clothes around in various ways with various combinations of hot and cold water until my clothes are clea
Am I as competent as a robot? (Score:1)
Because robots don't wear clothes (Score:2)
Get some some clothes and they will figure it out.
Reminds me of the TNG episode where Data meets his mother, and she tells an embarrassing story about how she had to program a modesty routine since he refused to wear clothes.
Not sure what the problem is (Score:2)
a) Dump everything in the wash
b) Wash on heavy load, warm
c) Put everything in the dryer
d) Dry on automatic
e) Put dry clothes in laundry tub
f) Done. Owner will pull clothes out of tub to wear as necessary.
Seems like you could do this with one of those Linux controller boards.
Seriously, could part of the issue be that they're trying to make the problem too hard? Most clothes are colorfast these days, so separating whites and colors is no longer necessary. You still need to wash certain items in cold water
Lets make the problem too complex... (Score:2)
The main issue I have with this guys article is that he wants to make a laundry robot out of straw.
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Thank god for illegal immigrants then.
What would society do without slave labor. We'd actually have to pay the going rate for the job, and who could afford that?