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Developers Race To Develop VR Headsets That Won't Make Users Nauseous 164

Posted by timothy from the or-nauseated dept.
HughPickens.com writes Nick Wingfield reports at the NYT that for the last couple of years, the companies building virtual reality headsets have begged the public for patience as they strive to create virtual environments that don't make people physically sick. "We're going to hang ourselves out there and be judged," says John Carmack, chief technology officer of Oculus, describing what he calls a "nightmare scenario" that has worried him and other Oculus executives. "People like the demo, they take it home, and they start throwing up," says Carmack. "The fear is if a really bad V.R. product comes out, it could send the industry back to the '90s." In that era, virtual reality headsets flopped, disappointing investors and consumers. "It left a huge, smoking crater in the landscape," says Carmack, who is considered an important game designer for his work on Doom and Quake. "We've had people afraid to touch V.R. for 20 years." This time around, the backing for virtual reality is of a different magnitude. Facebook paid $2 billion last year to acquire Oculus. Microsoft is developing its own headset, HoloLens, that mixes elements of virtual reality with augmented reality, a different medium that overlays virtual images on a view of the real world. Google has invested more than $500 million in Magic Leap, a company developing an augmented reality headset. "The challenge is there is so much expectation and anticipation that that could fall away quite quickly if you don't get the type of traction you had hoped," says Neil Young. (More, below.)
At least one company, Valve, believes it has solved the discomfort problem with headsets. Gabe Newell says Valve has worked hard on its virtual reality technology to eliminate the discomfort, saying that "zero percent of people get motion sick" when they try its system. According to Newell, the reason why no one has gotten sick yet is thanks to Valve's Lighthouse motion-tracking system, a precise motion-tracking system that is capable of accurately tracking users as they move around a space. In the meantime the next challenge will be convincing media and tech companies to create lots of content to keep users entertained. "Virtual reality has been around for 20 years, and the one thing that has been consistent throughout this is that the technology is not mature enough," says Brian Blau,. "Today there's the possibility for that to change, but it's going to take a while for these app developers to get it right."
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Developers Race To Develop VR Headsets That Won't Make Users Nauseous More

Developers Race To Develop VR Headsets That Won't Make Users Nauseous

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  • Nauseated. (Score:5, Informative)

    by icejai ( 214906 ) on Thursday March 05, 2015 @03:05PM (#49191129)

    ... That Won't Make Users Nauseated.

    Well, I guess VR headsets *could* make users nauseous...

    • http://www.merriam-webster.com... [merriam-webster.com]

      Full Definition of NAUSEOUS

      1
      : causing nausea or disgust : nauseating
      2
      : affected with nausea or disgust

      Usage Discussion of NAUSEOUS
      Those who insist that nauseous can properly be used only in sense 1 and that in sense 2 it is an error for nauseated are mistaken. Current evidence shows these facts: nauseous is most frequently used to mean physically affected with nausea, usually after a linking verb such as feel or become; figurative use is quite a bit less frequent. Use of

      • Re:Nauseated. (Score:4, Insightful)

        by mothlos ( 832302 ) on Thursday March 05, 2015 @03:51PM (#49191437)

        English dictionaries are not prescriptive, but descriptive of the useage of words. All this is saying is that this is how people are using this word so if you hear someone use it you should consider this definition in trying to understand what has been said.

        Also, while I agree on a technical level that words have no intrinsic meaning and are simply tools of communication, I don't think this conflicts with the idea that we should care about language in order to improve its utility and accessibility. It is completely legitimate to prefer that people use nauseated over nauseous as the expanded definition of the latter to include the former can hinder communication and cause confusion.

        We certainly should care about our language and quoting dictionaries at people who do so is a high form of anti-thinking which just discourages people from caring.

        • It is completely legitimate to prefer that people use nauseated over nauseous as the expanded definition of the latter to include the former can hinder communication and cause confusion.

          How can it be "expanded" if it has always been that way? Besides, the verb "nauseate" is so rare as to be negligible, and without the verb form to support it, the past-participle-derived adjectival form is non-intuitive.

          We certainly should care about our language and quoting dictionaries at people who do so is a high form of anti-thinking which just discourages people from caring.

          We should be selective about what we care about, or we risk wiping out good changes, such as when teachers reversed the death of person conjugations -- see restoration comedies for invariant "was" in the past tense, for example.

  • Technical Illusions product doesn't have nausea problems. Jerri Ellisworth is a genius. I first found her when I googled "how to make a transistor at home."

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by sbaker ( 47485 ) *

      AR is much easier than VR...but even so, I'd be surprised if everyone could hold onto their lunch with it.

      It doesn't contain anything to specifically fix the problems.

          -- Steve

  • Also patents... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Kaenneth ( 82978 ) on Thursday March 05, 2015 @03:07PM (#49191145) Journal

    Over the last 20 years a lot of patents in the area have expired as well, making them cheaper to produce and sell.

  • Sick (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward

    I'm so sick of these VR products I could throw up.

  • I might be one (Score:3)

    by war4peace ( 1628283 ) on Thursday March 05, 2015 @03:10PM (#49191173)

    I think I might be one of the people who are getting sick from using VR. It's also one reason why I don't drive.
    What happens is that I have nausea symptoms if I am in a moving car and look at my cellphone screen, for example. I can't look at my cellphone or tablet for more than 30 seconds before I start to get sick and feel like throwing up.
    My doctor says it's because I am stationary (my body doesn't move), I'm also looking at a stationary object (e.g. cellphone screen) but the environment I'm in moves with high speed.
    Strangely enough, I don't get sick while travelling by train or plane, only car and bus. I played and watched movies on my tablet for 8 hours straight while in a moving train and haven't had any symptoms.

    • Re:I might be one (Score:5, Funny)

      by Ralph Siegler ( 3506871 ) on Thursday March 05, 2015 @03:27PM (#49191277)
      I have an even worse problem where I get these huge lumps on my head. I'll be driving along, texting or using a tablet, when there will be this huge deaccelerating feeling coupled with pain in forehead and aural impressions like breaking glass and bending metal, usually near traffic lights or backed up ramps during rush hour. I hope the graphical rendering devs can iron out these problems.

    • I find that a problem too, if I'm watching a youtube video while driving it causes me to spew into my cup holder. Almost ran over some kids the other day. It's part of my new diet plan though, so I do it as much as i can after every meal.

  • what about depth of field (Score:3)

    by i_ate_god ( 899684 ) on Thursday March 05, 2015 @03:10PM (#49191175)

    with all the focus on motion sickness, what about depth of field?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by dave562 ( 969951 )

      I am curious about this as well. What are the potential risks of maintaining focus on a point a few inches away from the eye for hours upon hours?

  • Language nazi here (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Nauseated, not nauseous. A thing that is nauseous makes people sick. Nauseated is the state of being you mean.

    And yes, I worked for the German army in WWII as a proofreader for Hitler's various public missives.

  • and why should I care what his opinion is?

  • Of course any VR helmet will be capable of making the user sick. Even if perfected with inner ear stimulation. All they have to do is put them through virtual motions that would make them sick IRL.

    If they haven't been making anybody sick, it has nothing to do with motion tracking. The one on my VFX1 was 'good enough' 20 years ago.

    It's down to software. It was down to software 20 years ago. 20 years ago nobody would write a VR only game though, so we ran hacks. Even then some games would not make most u

  • This sounds really useful (Score:3)

    by Krishnoid ( 984597 ) on Thursday March 05, 2015 @03:16PM (#49191209) Journal

    "People like the demo, they take it home, and they start throwing up."

    "I notice that by your increased heartrate and labored breathing that you have been poisoned. Would you like me to start up Starfox 3d pre-alpha?"

  • Eyes wide open (Score:5, Funny)

    by allcoolnameswheretak ( 1102727 ) on Thursday March 05, 2015 @03:16PM (#49191219)

    I for one am looking forward to my future, virtual, bikini-clad room mates.

  • General motion sickness. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by jellomizer ( 103300 ) on Thursday March 05, 2015 @03:18PM (#49191233)

    From my understanding, General motion sickness happens when your eyes tell you something that the fluid in your ears doesn't
    Sure with some VR headsets they do not work well because the images that they show may not be timed or aligned correctly so your 3d perspective is kinda off. But you still have the issue of your ears saying you are not moving, or you are moving in a way that is different from what your eyes are saying.

    That and some people have much different levels of tolerance so for some people you can cause motion sickness by just moving an object back and forth across their field of vision. While others it takes a lot more....

    • If its just the fluids on the ears, people should be able to get accustomed to the change. Astronauts do.

      • How it usually works.

        They have an idea for 'making it better', they work on their idea while be desensitized, it works.

      • Let's assume the inner ear thing is a real problem, and it's the only problem.

        There's two sides to that:

        1) Sure, if you can desensitize yourself, that's certainly easier than changing people's ears, or finding hardware to do it.
        2) Most people won't try new technology that also makes them sick. People don't like to work for entertainment. Astronauts are heroes going into space. Grandma would already rather read a book. So until they solve that issue, they'll need a hugely disproportionate amount of PR/

      • If its just the fluids on the ears, people should be able to get accustomed to the change. Astronauts do.

        Uh huh. So, how many hours, days, or weeks of continuous uninterrupted VR usage is required to acclimatise?

      • If its just the fluids on the ears, people should be able to get accustomed to the change. Astronauts do.

        Given the ratio of applicants to vacancies, space programmes can afford to be selective. I seriously doubt anyone with serious motion sickness would ever be accepted for astronaut training.

        We've had hundreds of years of sailing the seas, and the observation is that people's capacity to get over seasickness is minimal. Sailors adjust by compensation strategies (breathing techniques, moving about more/less etc), not by becoming more accustomed.

  • Just call the vomit-inducing situation a "feature" and be done with it. In fact, I can see this ushering in a whole new wave of quick-weight-loss VR!

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • They are going to have to recommend users get plenty of weed in them before use.

    I didn't care much about VR before, but maybe I should jump on the bandwagon...

  • Sim Sickness (Score:5, Informative)

    by ShakaUVM ( 157947 ) on Thursday March 05, 2015 @03:37PM (#49191347) Homepage Journal

    Source: I worked in VR 20 years ago for a defense contractor.

    Sim Sickness is caused by a disconnect between what your eyes see and what your inner ear is telling you is happening. Your eyes are extremely sensitive to latency. If you snap your head quickly, even a small lag will cause a certain percentage of people to get nauseous. Having a fast and accurate motion tracking system is crucial, but you also need to have an extremely fast rendering engine and a headset capable of updating quickly as well. Motion prediction helps, also, but does not eliminate the problem. As does making sure your program doesn't require you to spin around a lot.

    We can only put up with the horribly slow latencies on flat screen displays because they're not attached to our heads.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by N3x)( ( 1722680 )
      That's why the current focus is on low persistence screens. They never "hold" the frame while they wait for the next. so the effect is a lowered brightness but the image is only shown while its actually correct leaving the brain to fill in the gaps. I haven't experienced it myself but apparently it solves many of the nausea problems. You need to get up to above 90 fps though,

    • In my experience it's not just a head tracking issue. Just the feeling of seeing your avatar walking around in the virtual world, while your real body is stationary, was enough to cause nausea in a lot of people.

      Games where your avatar remains seated in a cockpit, like a fighter sim, were no problem. You can crane your neck to look around the cockpit from different positions and angles without any nausea (provided the head tracking works well enough), because both your avatar and your real body are seated

      • I agree with your assessment about how FPS games may not be the best choice for VR headsets. Personally, I also think vehicular-based games are the killer apps for VR. I used to love playing flight sims, but they always suffered from an inability to crane your neck around and track your targets, for instance. I'd love to try both flight sims and other mech/vehicular combat games with this new tech, especially when using a proper HOTAS [wikipedia.org] input system. Years ago, I used a set of flightstick, throttle, and p

        • I loved Janes ATF on my VFX1 headset. I should see if the machine still boots.

          I found that having good solid controls in your hands makes me less likely to get sick. G27 wheel, DK2 and Asseto Corsa are my current favorite.

      • >In my experience it's not just a head tracking issue. Just the feeling of seeing your avatar walking around in the virtual world, while your real body is stationary, was enough to cause nausea in a lot of people.

        Well. You shouldn't be seeing your own avatar. Other than that, there's nothing inherently sim sickness-causing about moving around a world. You could be a tank or an airplane or a person as far as your inner ear is concerned. What *does* cause a massive amount of nausea is when you are in a FPS

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Prune ( 557140 )
      The required refresh rate is too fast to re-render. The only way to do this is with hardware pixel reprojection, and competent ways of handling the problems that come with it (disocclusion and view-dependent effects -- specular reflections and refractions).

    • Actually most of what you describe is solved. the head tracking latency is a solved problem, or at least well understood what is required to remove it as a cause for sickness. The main problem now is that porting games that were not designed for VR is what everyone really wants, yet it's what makes everyone sick.

      Playing the games that were designed from the beginning to be VR games, that are held to the requirements for movement speeds and frames per second then few people will get simsick from them.

      • >Actually most of what you describe is solved. the head tracking latency is a solved problem, or at least well understood what is required to remove it as a cause for sickness

        Well. A problem can be (and is) well understood without necessarily having a good solution for it.

        I recall talking to Michael Abrash about how we quasi-solved it back in the day when he asked about it a couple years ago. And he was working on VR for Valve. So maybe, yeah, they solved it. But at the time he thought it was pretty much

        • By understood, I mean there is a list of do's and don't's to go with VR. While it does limit some of the capabilities to hack in head tracking to current FPSes and drop them into a VR helmet and say go without making someone puke, there is plenty of new content coming out that follows the rules and makes for very pleasant experiences.

  • I love my Oculus Rift DK2 (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward

    .....but I get physically ill at just thinking about putting the thing on. It's a love/hate relationship. It's amazing how real the thing feels with good demo or a game. Unfortunately so many demos and many of the games I've played just make me sick to my stomach. I typically can't use it for longer than an hour with Assetto Corsa which is the game I find works best with the Rift. I want to love the thing because it can be really immersive but they really need to figure out how to fix the motion sickness.

    • The fix needs to happen inside your brain. They can't fix it because they're not allowed to issue medication. Try Dramamine.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by jma05 ( 897351 )

        In that case, the product will just flop. There is no way you can tell the mass market to "Try Dramamine". A small enthusiast community will put up with a lot, but that will hardly provide the critical mass it needs.

    • I can't do the hill climb even once. Too many tight turns.

      An hour at a time is all I expect from VR. You should let your eyes focus to infinity that often anyhow.

      This is my second headset. 20 years ago the issues were the same. Some games worked OK, others (Descent) were bazooka barf inducing.

  • Virus (Score:2)

    by sjames ( 1099 )

    I'm just waiting for the first computer virus that makes the user sick. M.D.s will have to get used to diagnosing patients with a bout of BarfOrama 2.6.

  • That means the window's closing on me making a 3D wingsuit video with the intent of making an Occulus Rift wearer vomit! I'd better get cracking!

  • Feeling nausea is "nauseated". Causing nausea is "nauseous." Do not say "I feel nauseous" unless you are sure you have this effect on others.

  • How about you make a product that I want to buy and then I'll give you money for it. There's no "patience" involved here, it's just the free market working like it should for once. Whoever releases a product that doesn't make users sick first will probably get a crapload of money.
  • The VR people figure out away to stimulate the inner ear the same way as they show the imagery. Puking will be a integral part of the VR experience.

    Try looking down and reading a book on a long car trip.

  • I've worked with VR helmets since the 1980's in flight simulation.

    The problem is simple: Your eyes use two mechanisms to figure out distance - the degree to which your eyes have to point in different directions in order to fuse two images into one - and the degree to which the lens has to be stretched or squished to pull things into focus. Every VR helmet ever made gets the first thing right - and completely fails at the second thing. No matter what optics are used, no matter anything - you're focussing

    • Would it help if the VR headset allowed for some Actual Reality to seep through in some controlled way? Couple of ideas come to mind --

      1. Have a faint overlay of "AR" with the VR image. Could be that the physical screen is partly transparent somehow so you can see the outside, with a controllable (manual or automatic) transparency.

      2. Have a small square patch of AR in your field of view, say in the upper right corner, that your eyes can dart back to when your brain needs some grounding. Kind of like a littl

    • We're both old enough to have fixed focus eyes at this point. So problem solved for us.

      You could fix it with pupal tracking, finding focus object, adjusting single very rapid zoom lens to correct focal distance and rendering depth of field blur.

  • Why is it that I have no motion sickness with my old Forte VFX-1, but get it pretty fast with the DK2 (which I also own)?
    So it's definitly not tracking only that's causing the problem..

    • Well met fellow VFX1 owner. Does yours still run?

      I get tons of motion sickness from the VFX1 in descent and am fine with my DK2 in Asseto Corsa. Devil is in the details.

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