Grad Student Rigs Cheap Alternative To $1,000 Air Purifiers In Smoggy China 182
An anonymous reader writes "University of Virginia grad student Thomas Talhelm was living in Beijing on a Fulbright Scholarship during the winter of 2012-13, when air pollution was so bad scientists likened it to a nuclear winter. Those who could afford it were resorting to an expensive solution: air filters costing up to $1,000. Talhem built his own on the cheap, getting comparable particulate count results, and has started a company that both markets the product to middle class Chinese and shows others how to DIY."
What the hell? (Score:2)
How is anybody supposed to make money like that? Won't someone think of the shareholders?
But, seriously, that's pretty awesome and surprisingly simple.
Re:What the hell? (Score:5, Insightful)
Almost all air purifiers are nothing more than a fan blowing through a filter. Thanks to fans and filters being commodity items, there are many retail HEPA air purifiers on sale for close to this guy's price. The article is little more than a cherry picking fallacy.
Next up: Man rigs cheap alternative to $500 Denon patch cable.
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Sure, but where can I get 1 billion hepa filters today?
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China.
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But it makes more sense to filter the air at the inlet if you can, or at least as it recirculates through the HVAC system already built into your home. Check your air filter [walmart.com] once in a while, people!
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Just don't try sleeping WITH it.
It would be cheaper for everyone.... (Score:5, Insightful)
It would be cheaper for everyone to just fix the pollution problem by putting heavy restrictions on emissions. Seriously, $1000 dollar air purifiers to remove the debris put in the air to save $0.05 on scrubbers is stupidity of the highest order. In a lot of cases the scrubbers are already on the factories because Chinese law requires them, just doesn't require that they be in operation. In about a year China could dramatically reduce this pollution to western world levels with simple installing or activating scrubbers on smoke stacks.
This continues to show China is a pay for play game, in that you are well connected enough in the communist party and laws and environmental rules just don't apply and it doesn't matter if it kills the little people.
Re:It would be cheaper for everyone.... (Score:4, Insightful)
This continues to show China is a pay for play game, in that you are well connected enough in the communist party and laws and environmental rules just don't apply and it doesn't matter if it kills the little people.
Lol, yea, they make great capitalists, don't they?
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It would be cheaper for everyone to just fix the pollution problem by putting heavy restrictions on emissions
This implies that they have the capability. Grease the palms of the inspectors, local officials, etc and the government will never know that you are polluting. I could be wrong, but it is also completely possible that the government would need to fix corruption before they can actually attack pollution.
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This is not a simple solution. There are many sources of pollution, which are amplified in winter by homes burning coal for heat. Automobiles are a large source of airborne particulates, and with many small sources it will take awhile to fix, but at least we've seen it can work in cities like Los Angeles.
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It is incredibly simple and relatively cheap given the costs the pollution imposes. China's mix of pollution sources is little different than the rest of the world.
Non point sources are about 40% of the emissions mix and composed mostly of vehicle emissions in the summer with some heating emissions from wood and coal in the winter. The cars they are buying for the most part have the same systems in them as they do in the US, the problem is the fuel used is incredibly dirty. This could be fixed in less than
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This continues to show China is a pay for play game, in that you are well connected enough in the communist party and laws and environmental rules just don't apply and it doesn't matter if it kills the little people.
The same could be said about the US too.....
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07... [nytimes.com]
Do note these things weren't made for China (Score:2)
There are reasons to want to own an air purifier even if you live in a place that doesn't have tons of pollution.
The most common would be allergies. If you get a decent one, it can nab pollen out of the air no problem. This can make living in a place where you have allergies to something much more tolerable.
They also help with dust accumulation. I live in the desert so we get lots of particles in the air, humans or no humans. An air filter can help clean that up. Makes it easier to keep the house clean.
Also
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Ok, who is 'everyone',
All people, I would imagine.
what does it mean to 'fix pollution'
continue reducing pollution in the air.
and how much do 'heavy restrictions' cost to everyone?
Less then the medical cost, and loss of habitat costs.
Why should polluter be allowed to force their pollution on others for free?
China's pollution is ultimately everyone's pollution.
Ironically, China is moving to greener solutions faster the the US is.
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In the USA when Lyndon Johnson came out with the 'Great Society' crap the level of poverty was very low and falling, then the government stepped in and reversed that trend categorically. The free market was working towards reducing poverty, there was no need for anything called 'Great Society' (and as always, there is no truth in advertising that comes from government, less truth in government advertising than in any other).
Could you provide some stats for that? I've never heard this before and you've piqued my interest.
Maybe (Score:2)
Maybe China should try reducing the pollution at the source
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They would. But we're not willing to pay 10% more on the cheap crap they produce for us.
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That 10% more would probably just go into the pockets of their rich. It's not like they don't have them there, too. They infest everything.
Lots of people criticize this for its obviousness (Score:4, Insightful)
A lot of ideas are obvious once somebody announces what the idea actually is. Honestly, I think that people who would criticize the inventor simply because of the idea's apparent simplicity or obviousness are being rather snobbish, if you ask me.
But hey.... some might find it comforting to think that such values, which might otherwise seem outdated in today's word, are still alive and thriving in our society.
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A lot of ideas are obvious once somebody announces what the idea actually is.
In this case it's just plain obvious. Try doing a google image search for air filter fan.
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Yet, nobody else thought of selling it for cheaper to Chinese countries. Heh.
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Are you sure about that? Other than this one article what makes you think that all or most Chinese citizens with air filtering fans were paying $1000 for them?
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If he's never seen one before, it's ingenious. I've seen one (years ago [motherearthnews.com]) so it seems obvious to me. *shrug*
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because I was unaware that the going rate for filter units in China was $1000, and therefore didn't realize that there was a problem that this was a solution for.
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My point was that the obviousness of a solution depends heavily on whether the observer has seen the solution before or is making it up from scratch. It seems to me that the visible characteristic of an 'obvious' solution is that when you tell someone the problem ("this air filter costs $1000") they come up with the answer immediately, without much thought ("why not just take a box fan and stick a filter on it?"). Not knowing a problem exists does not necessarily make the solution non-obvious, just irreleva
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Probably because he doesn't live in China.
This is China we're talking about, with 1.3 billion people. I'm sure that people have already strapped filters onto fans, this one guy just happens to be getting some feel-good-DIY publicity because he's marketing his product. Kudos to him because it seems like a good thing that he's doing this, but I would be amazed if this is actually considered novel in China.
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Go on AliExpress, there are loads of cheap air purifiers with HEPA filters. TFA says "up to $1000", and actually even high end Japanese models are usually much less than that. Chinese manufacturers sell many models that are basically the same as what this guy invented - a HEPA filter strapped to a fan - for $30-40.
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I've been doing this for years when I paint in my garage ... I'm not saying I'm brilliant but not everyone thinks of things as being this easy so some people need to be told.
I was refilling the refrigerant in my truck A/C with Propane last night... My neighbor came out with an "ummm, what are you doing?" look...
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Go to Amazon and look for HEAP air fliters for home use. You will find models from $50 to $250.
Yeah, A LOT of people have had this idea and brought products to market.
Umm except they did (Score:2)
You can see it right in the Slashdot thread where people link to Youtube videos of this being done a long time ago. The idea of "stick a filter on a fan" isn't new because that's PRECISELY what air filters are. They don't make any bones about it.
So, why doesn't everyone do it? Well because it turns out DIY isn't much cheaper if you want it to work well. When I first heard of the idea, on Youtube, I said "let's try that!" Went and got out one of my box fans, bought a filter at Home Depot, and taped it all to
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That you know how it works doesn't change the fact that you didn't actually implement it as a solution for China's air pollution before he did.
Of course I didn't. I don't live in China. I live in a country that enforces air purity laws. It's a blindingly obvious solution to a problem I don't have.
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Which is my point.
Somebody had to think of the idea first... cut the guy some slack.
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Youtube of this same idea (Score:2)
Box Fan + Filter. Posted 6 years ago [youtube.com]
Box Fan + Filter. Posted 3 years ago from a university [youtube.com]
Not sure if these are the same thing. If it is, then it's sad this knowledge isn't more common place to help people out.
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Some filters are better than others, but standard box fans are not designed to have to blow air *through* anything. They don't push the air hard enough to force it through the filter, so airflow really drops down. Perhaps the hepa filters this guy is using are better (furnace filters an
Re:Youtube of this same idea (Score:4, Informative)
Yes, same thing but he uses a fancy looking fan instead of a cheap old (in the US) box fan. He even uses a particle counter to measure the result just like the MD in your second link "from a university" (the University of Michigan) did. I'm posting the UoM link below; it contains a link to the Youtube video you posted.
"Build a do-it-yourself air purifier for about $25"
http://www.uofmhealth.org/news/sinus-hepa-0630 [uofmhealth.org]
The difference in this case so far as I can tell is that instead of showing people how to make an air purifier for the price of a box fan and a furnace filter, he's trying to start a company to manufacture and sell the things.
I have a couple of these at home and yes, they work great.
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Replying to myself just to add:
1. Instead of taping the filter onto the outflow side of the box fan, tape it onto the inflow side so that the filter protects also the fan itself from the dust in the incoming air.
2. I first used Filtrete "Elite Allergen" but then switched to the cheaper "Ultimate Allergen Blue" for better air flow. Both work well though.
Don't fix the problem, treat the symptom (Score:2)
... that way we can pretend nothing is really happening. And the industry to make the filters? Produces pollution to do so... A cycle of foolishness.
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And coal burned to produce power for the fans themselves...
How does the power efficiency on compare vs. a designed for purpose fan? does the extra resistance overheat the motor, increasing fire hazard?
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Wouldn't it be nice to let engineers run society by design, balanced by laws implemented by philosophers? We'd be moving forward much more slowly and carefully because money wouldn't be part of human existence, and we can fully say that how far we've come has given us enough fruits to improve us and support us while we make smartly calculated steps forward.
Been there done that (Score:2)
Living is a basement apartment in Boston I had problems with particulates from the street. I removed the window screen, installed a filter in its place, and mounted a window fan on the inside. Whole house air filter and didn't even need the box. 15 years ago, I claim prior art if he patents it.
Re:Very original (Score:5, Insightful)
He got similar results to a $1000 product, and told everybody how to do it.
That is newsworthy.
I suspect there are a lot of people in places with a lot of air pollution who would really like to have this.
Kudos to this guy.
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It's odd that people needed instructions on how to tape a filter to a fan?
Re:Very original (Score:5, Insightful)
In China? Not really. If you're being conditioned that following the rules is good while thinking for yourself is bad and can even get you in trouble, you eventually end up with a mindset like that.
But don't worry, they're already exporting that success model. We're getting there. And, frankly, when I look around me, how people pay for "services" that hardly qualify as a service because they're too closed minded to even fathom how they could do it themselves for free and at little if any expense and effort, I dare say we're already there.
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Traditionally, having someone else do stuff for you was an indicator of how wealthy you were.
All very well to have the manor, but without a proper set of servants, where are you?
Shine one's own shoes and show up at the Opera with bootblack on one's hands? How terribly low-class!
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Once it was a hallmark of wealth to be fat. Today, it's kinda the opposite. Times change.
And while letting a professional handle a job you could only do worse may be a wise decision, I happen to have met a lot of "professionals" who only meet the "I do it for money" definition thereof...
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Once it was a hallmark of wealth to be fat. Today, it's kinda the opposite. Times change.
Yeah. You hire a personal trainer.
Can't really point the finger (Score:2)
I don't see how we can point the finger when most of us don't personally change the oil and oil filters in our cars.
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Why pay for sexual services? I got two fully functional hands right here!
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Just one? Ok: Cell phone ring tones.
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Name one of the services you're talking about. Any single one.
Cooking. Someone who puts a little effort into feeding themselves can make a good dinner for a family in ten minutes but instead many people re-heat terrible-for-you processed food at much higher costs (which does not even end up saving them much time/effort anyhow).
Re:Very original (Score:5, Funny)
He managed to attach a square filter to a round duct; that's NASA-level ingenuity right there.
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Well, there was a market for a $1000 product ... apparently nobody else thought of it.
Yes, this is the low-tech solution, but if it works just as well as the expensive one ... it's a damned fine solution.
How have you made the world a better place this week?
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LOL ... Well, carry on then.
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I'm sure people knew how to do that. What they didn't know was that by doing that they could match the results of a $1000 solution. They're no doubt thinking "It can't be that simple, there must be a trick to it". So they sell a pre-made unit at low cost.
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That's pretty much it. Or they think the $1000 is buying them some special features like running quieter.
The prices in this market are downright crazy, probably because it's a quasi-medical application. Yes there are some that offer things like UV sterilizers and engineer the air flow such that it goes through the UV sterilizer at a rate that actually allows it to work, but even the ones with features that actually work are completely overpriced, and that doesn't change as long as it's a small percentage
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There is a lot to that. It's amazing how overpriced anything medical is, often inflated by orders of magnitude.
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I think the problem we have here comes from the comparison to a $1000 product as little more than a red herring.
He strapped a (replacement) HEPA cartridge - A well-proven technology for removing particulates from the air - To a fan. He basically made a "ghetto" HEPA filter. I have little reason to doubt it would work.
I would, however, question how well that $1000 filter performs compared to a sub-$50 Holmes/LG/Honeywell/etc
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"That expensive consumer-targetted air filters don't do any better than the Wallyworld special. "
It's not the filter, it's the mechanism for pushing air through it that doesn't matter. Same rate of flow through the same filter produce nearly the same results.
A crap filter will still have crap results.
I don't shop and wally world, so I won't comment on their specific filter.
Re:Very original (Score:5, Interesting)
Well, he went as far as confirming he was getting the same particle counts.
He's not saying "I just invented something revolutionary", he's just sticking it to the people selling over prices kit.
And in my book, that gets applause.
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Curiously enough, my home air purifier consists of an HEPA filter strapped in front of a fan. In a box.
Re:Very original (Score:5, Informative)
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Comparable particle counts HOW? right up against the filter? What about over time? Zero details except you MUST go to his workshop for $33 to find out... Fishy...
I have a rock that keeps tigers away, My most recent tiger count shows zero so it's as good as a $10,000 tiger cage.
Need real data, full information on how the test was done and for how long. Anything else is made up BS or misinformation.
Re:Very original (Score:4, Informative)
If you take a look at his site, it has all the data, comparisons with commercial purifiers, timeframes, and all the other details you are saying are missing. http://smartairfilters.com/index.html#data
Re:Very original (Score:4, Informative)
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He's using the same rated filer and pushing air through it, so it would be expected to have the same count.
Also, the info is on his site.
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So duct tape it to the back of the fan instead.
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Holy shit, quick somebody do a new Slashdot article with AC's idea!
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Oh stop being a paranoid dipshit. HEPA filters are well understood, aren't made by this guy, and have been being tested by hospitals for fourty years.
"OMFG he claims a hepa filter does what hepa filters do??!!?!? WHY SHOULD WE BELIEVE IT"
Because it's pretty obviously a sensible claim. Duh. Go to Target, spend the $20 it would take to try it yourself, and please grow up a little bit.
I mean seriously, what kind of person thinks putting an air filter in front of a fan doesn't actually filter air? Seriously
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Well, he went as far as confirming he was getting the same particle counts.
He confirmed that the homemade filter reduced particle counts. But I don't see that he compared its effectiveness to filters costing "up to $1000".
http://particlecounting.tumblr... [tumblr.com]
Compares Blue Air 203/270E (3,600 RMB) and a Philips AC4072 (3, 000 RMB) to both of his setups. Those are only about $550 filters, but I think that is sufficient to cover the "up to" in "up to $1000". If you want to donate a $1000 one to him, it looks like he'd be happy to test it.
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As you say, none of them had the idea. In a country of 1.4 billion people.
A great many things seem obvious with 20/20 hindsight.
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Oftentimes, life gets in the way.
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Yes, I'm sure nobody in all of China already has an inexpensive HEPA air purifier. [google.com]
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Yes, I'm sure nobody in all of China already has an inexpensive HEPA air purifier. [google.com]
I'm sure someone in China does have an inexpensive HEPA air purifier. I am not sure what your US Google search has to do with what people have in China though.
assholes everywhere (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:assholes everywhere (Score:5, Informative)
Wouldn't it be simpler to strap the air filter to the smokestacks where the pollution is emitted? Nah, that'd never work.
part of the problem is that many homes burn coal for heat, so it isn't just industrial pollution, nor from automobiles, the latter two are present during most of the year, with the former being a problem concentrated in winter.
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part of the problem is that many homes burn coal for heat, so it isn't just industrial pollution, nor from automobiles, the latter two are present during most of the year, with the former being a problem concentrated in winter.
Strapping a filter over the individual smokestacks would help reduce emissions significantly in that case too, especially over time.
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In Central Beijing (a very large city), most people live in large apartment buildings which have central heating. Although historically coal was used for these central boilers, most have been transitioned to coal gas. In smaller buildings, coal burning ovens have been transitioned to electric heat (where the coal is merely burned somewhere else)...
However, the biggest change is that has been made recently was to require new homes to be metered. Historically, residents simply paid heating bills relative to
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If you'd ever sat in a Beijing traffic jam next to their monstrous, smoke belching diesel trucks, you'd know that factories and power plants are only a part of the problem.
I've been there and air filters or not, I could not live in Beijing with my asthma. One can only imagine the future lung disease/cancer rates we are going to see.
- Necron69
Re: Very original (Score:2)
Agreed. Effective at reducing particle count, but not at removing harmful chemicals from the air. Still, much better than nothing.
Re: Very original (Score:5, Informative)
Probably could combine a HEPA filter with a charcoal filter to get both particles and volatile chemicals.
Like this:
http://www.instructables.com/i... [instructables.com]
Or:
http://www.amazon.com/Rabbit-A... [amazon.com]
Lots more here:
http://www.grainger.com/catego... [grainger.com]
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"Not with a fan that size. and I highly doubt that a HEPA filter and a fan works. you need significant air pressure behind the fan to get any real filtering volume."
That sentence makes no sense.
IT's literally nonsense.
Are you unfamiliar with fans? HEPA filters?
Did you spend 1000 dollar on an air filter and are now angry you were a fool to do so?
Have you ever taken apart an air purifier? those fans aren't exactly the most powerful thing on the planet.
Re:Very original (Score:5, Funny)
How very un-American! He could have sold it for 800 bucks, and instead he hands it out for free!
He's been living in Commieland for too long!
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Hermes Conrad: I order you to dispose of that toxic waste properly, or bribe me. Either way, it'll cost you $500.
Bender: 500 real dollars? That's an outrage! Professor, I can take care of that waste for only $499 and one hundred cents.
Prof. Hubert J. Farnsworth: Hmm, I know that's a rip, but I'll pay for the convenience.
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So Franklin was against the American way of life too?
Won't somebody please think of the Founding Fathers?
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You jest, but me being very cynical, suspect that the $1,000 filter probably cost $10 to make. Marketing ("How much would you pay for clean air?" "You can't put a price on your health, but $1,000 sounds about right") does the rest.
The original price might have been set by an American in the first place.
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It's because he is a grad student, be nice to the mentally challenged. grad students are people too.
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The first thing that came to mind was "Won't eddy currents bypass the filter and reduce its effectiveness?
Then I saw the pictures.
They cheated and used fans with flat/concave shrouds. Most of the cheap chinese fans around here are more lens-shaped (convex).
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"He straps a filter on to a fan and this is noteworthy? Ok then."
Wait until the shit hits the fan, and you'll be glad it had a filter.
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That's ... that's ... .that's COMMUNISM!