Fluke Donates Multimeters To SparkFun As Goodwill Gesture 250
Actually, I do RTFA writes "We recently heard about the confiscation of a delivery of multimeters to SparkFun for infringing on Fluke's trademark. One common thread in the discussions was the theme that Fluke should have let that shipment through as a goodwill gesture to SparkFun and the Maker community. Well, Fluke did one better. They announced they were sending more than $30k worth of official multimeters to SparkFun for them to do whatever they want with. SparkFun is most likely going to give them away. A great example of win-win-win?"
Good PR Move (Score:5, Insightful)
Fluke moves from villain to hero.
$30K is cheap for good PR.
Re: (Score:2, Redundant)
Fluke moves from villain to hero.
$30K is cheap for good PR.
While I agree it's good PR and great thing for Fluke to do, one wonders at the price of Fluke vs the price of those knockoffs, how many Flukes will Sparkfun actually get? It's obviously not a 1:1 replacement, and probably shouldn't be, but Sparkfun might still be coming out negative on this if they were planning on selling those original meters.
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I didn't read the article, but the summary says MORE THAN 30K. Maybe they matched them 1:1 which lead to the extra valuation.
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The statement says the valuation of the donation is more than that of the impounded shipment.
Re:Good PR Move (Score:5, Insightful)
I think Sparkfun is out either way from what I understand. They're planning on giving the Fluke ones away to educational institutions, but they seem much happier about this than just flat out losing the $30k worth of meters.
Re:Good PR Move (Score:5, Insightful)
I think Sparkfun is out either way from what I understand. They're planning on giving the Fluke ones away...
Sparkfun is out only because they CHOOSE to give stuff away. Don't cry for them, they're being made whole by the generosity of a large evil corporation, or at least that was the opinion most people had of Fluke yesterday. It's Fluke who is out either way. Either Fluke becomes this evil company that is simply trying to keep its trademark and a few people stop buying from them, or they hand out $30k and the same people who would buy from them anyway keep buying from them.
And Fluke is out for support, too. Those people who get free Fluke meters from Sparcfun aren't going to call Sparcfun when they need help with the meter. They're going to call Fluke because Fluke's name is on them.
I think that's a pretty sweet deal for Sparcfun. They violated a trademark and they're not suffering one bit from it. The company whose trademark they infringed is the one losing money.
Re:Good PR Move (Score:5, Insightful)
I think that's a pretty sweet deal for Sparcfun. They violated a trademark and they're not suffering one bit from it. The company whose trademark they infringed is the one losing money.
...but Fluke apparently considers it worth the cost to be the good guy.
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...but Fluke apparently considers it worth the cost to be the good guy.
Yep. And because of that, there is no need for pity for Sparkfun.
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Re:Good PR Move (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't think that Sparkfun was intentionally trying to get fluke lookalike DMMs, and I'm very sure that Fluke agrees with me. Yeah, Fluke got put in a rough spot by this mess, but nobody was malicious. So Fluke spends a bit of their advertising budget to buy their way out. They benefit because they keep their trademark and they get their products into the hands of tomorrow's engineers, technicians and hobbyists. Sparkfun gets to make a great big gesture about IP law and an actual choice about donating equipment (which they do pretty often anyways - this won't kill them). This is what we call 'win win.'
Since they're donating the DMMs, technically both companies are losing about 30K. Given their respective sizes, Sparkfun is making the larger sacrifice, I think.
Re:Good PR Move (Score:4, Interesting)
a long time ago, I would have said fluke could afford it.
but fluke is no longer fluke. tektronics is not tek and keithley is not keithley. they are ALL danaher now. what does that say? the industry greats (seriously world-class great) could not survive on their own and some non-test gear company bought them. ALL!
agilent is still - oh wait - they changed names. who are they now? doesn't matter, I guess. they are not in the danaher family.
who else is still a big player in test gear, ignoring the one-hung-low companies? danaher has most of the big players now. very strange how that worked out.
maybe danaher is rich, but seeing what tek is doing these days (outsourcing all but their top-end gear) and seeing that keithley is outsourcing to 1HL companies as well, I'm just not sure any of those companies are all that rich these days.
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\who else is still a big player in test gear, ignoring the one-hung-low companies?
I don't know what this means, but I too am hung low.
Re:Good PR Move (Score:4)
I stick with Fluke - or if in a pinch and need to buy locally (i.e., if I left my Fluke DMM and testers behind), Extech, but I try to avoid the Extech stuff at least as primary tools. It (Extech) might be one of the best of the cheap meters, but they are still short of the quality and reliability of Fluke's products.
Re:Good PR Move (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Good PR Move (Score:5, Interesting)
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(Shrug) They're good multimeters. Unlike the Chinese toy knock-off, the safety certifications printed on the Fluke actually mean that they meet those standards, and the CE mark on the Fluke doesn't stand for "China Export."
To professional users and serious hobbyists, these factors are important.
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And Fluke is out for support, too. Those people who get free Fluke meters from Sparcfun aren't going to call Sparcfun when they need help with the meter. They're going to call Fluke because Fluke's name is on them.
.
People call Fluke for support on a frickin' DMM???
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Do people call Sears for tech support on a Craftsman wrench?
If you remove Sears as a prerequisite I can give you a strong yes response.
Re:Good PR Move (Score:5, Insightful)
Calling support for a multimeter? What planet are you from? Short of it breaking and needing a replacement under warranty, you plug it in, spin the dial to the mode you want, and away you go.
And when it breaks, or behaves in a way you don't expect, are you going to call Sparkfun or Fluke? Fluke, of course.
Do people call Sears for tech support on a Craftsman wrench? I'll grant a multimeter is *slightly* more complicated of a tool,
A good quality multimeter is a LOT more complicated a tool than a wrench.
but really only slightly to someone who's the least bit experienced in that area of tech.
You expect your multimeter to be as reliable as a wrench, but that doesn't mean it is as simple as a wrench inside. Especially if those meters are being given out to DIY/school users. "Why doesn't my meter read Amps anymore? What do you mean there's a fuse? Where is the fuse? How do I replace it?"
I have a Keithley that reads negative voltage. That means if I test a nine volt battery, the display reads negative nine with the red lead on positive. Such a simple device, huh? How could it possibly fail in that mode? It took looking at the schematic, but sure enough, there's an inverting buffer that isn't anymore. That's in a device you think is almost as simple as a wrench.
I think I got my first MM when I was six years old. Took Dad about 10 minutes to show me how to measure voltage and resistance, and that was when you had to set the range yourself.
And as a six year old did you really learn not to try measuring the resistance of the mains? Or did you learn that by blowing up a meter? Even if your Dad told you not to, you never forgot and did it anyway? Sure. Or you never tried to see how many amps the mains could provide and blew the fuse? Or even just over-amped from an unexpected measurement and done the same?
I've had so many cheap crap multimeters die that I've lost count. I've also bought used meters by the box because they were all "failed", and some of them were really just a blown fuse, or some a bad battery lead. But they were ALL discarded and new ones put in their place because of those simple problems, by people who were using them to teach electronics. They didn't know how to fix their own meters, and I don't expect the recipients of the donations from Fluke will know, either.
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Yeah we call support when it comes back from failing the yearly calibration that the FAA requires.
And guess what Fluke says?
"Failed calibration??? We'll send you another if you'll give us the bad one to study"
I've owned Fluke meters for over 30 years, and you can tell these guys care about the product the make.
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Calling support for a multimeter? What planet are you from? Short of it breaking and needing a replacement under warranty, you plug it in, spin the dial to the mode you want, and away you go.
Do people call Sears for tech support on a Craftsman wrench? I’ll grant a multimeter is *slightly* more complicated of a tool, but really only slightly to someone who’s the least bit experienced in that area of tech. I think I got my first MM when I was six years old. Took Dad about 10 minutes to show me how to measure voltage and resistance, and that was when you had to set the range yourself.
Ever buy a $200-$500 multimeter? And then have problems with it? Maybe you'd be more apt to call support.
As well there's certainly liability. Here's a case where Fluke recalled meters:
http://www.fluke.com/fluke/cae... [fluke.com]
So if a hazard were found on the meters they donated, Fluke would have to pay to ship and repair the meters. Because they are a real organization that stands by their equipment, not some Chinese knockoff outfit that couldn't care less if the meter failed to detect voltage when present or explod
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It's good PR for Sparkfun too. They're getting way more value already than $30k of publicity usually gives you.
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It's obviously not a 1:1 replacement, and probably shouldn't be, but Sparkfun might still be coming out negative on this if they were planning on selling those original meters.
Of course Sparkfun was going to sell the original Chinese knock-offs. And they could just as well sell the better Fluke meters and they'd come out in the exact same place. Probably ahead of the game since they'd not have to stock so many meters (less shelf/warehouse space), or ship so many meters (less fixed costs to shipping). But they CHOOSE to give them away, so any losses Sparkfun has at this point are from their own choices, not the fault of Fluke (who didn't impound the original shipment) or the Chin
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The question is, did Sparkfun learn anything from this or will they make another order from the same Chinese company for the same meters and hope Customs doesn't catch them? After all, they got away with it for some time.
I thought they stated they will carry the same cheaper meters, but with the Sparkfun red housing substituted instead.
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Sheesh. Fluke is GIVING its product to Sparkfun as a gesture of goodwill and people are STILL giving Fluke shit for what US Customs did. It's costing Fluke real money to protect Sparkfun from their own mistake and Fluke is still the bad guy.
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It is probably a 1:3 - 1:5 replacement for equivalent functionality but far better accuracy and reliability.
Re:Good PR Move (Score:4, Insightful)
Still. No way Fluke should have been given that trademark. This isn't a "mark" it is the design of the product itself.
That is another damning example of a big enough company being able to buy off the right lawyers to say some abusive use of the law is legally okay. A design patent might have been appropriate in this case, but those expire in 15 years and how long have they been selling two toned multi-meters? If it is more than 15 years then Sparkfun should have every right to sell something that looks similar.
Clearly they went for a trademark rather than the appropriate design patent so it wouldn't expire. But a trade mark is supposed to be exactly that: A word or mark on a product or marketing material that indicates the company or brand that is selling it. Like a Nike swoosh or the Apple with a bite out of it or even a word mark like IBM. It would be like Nike trying to trademark a two toned sneaker or Ford trying to trademark a black muscle car with a yellow stripe rather than just the swoosh or the word "Ford" in an oval.
Just because we can say that the government is at fault for awarding this trademark in the first place, doesn't mean we can absolve the company of an abuse of intellectual property law.
Yes, they got some bad press and figured it would effect their business, but I don't think they have made this right until they cancel or abandon this trademark altogether
Re:Good PR Move (Score:5, Informative)
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A trademark is a word, phrase, symbol or design, or a combination of words, phrases, symbols or designs, that identifies and distinguishes the source of the goods of one party from those of others.
Do Trademarks, Copyrights and Patents protect the same things?
No. Trademarks, copyrights and patents all differ. A copyright protects an original artistic or literary work; a patent protects an invention.
As pointed out in the Wiki article on design patents, an object (like the Coca-Cola bottle shape) can be both covered by a design patent and a trademark. As you mentioned, a design patent runs out after a certain amount of time, but a trademark is valid as long as it is used in commerce. Also, from this article [natlawreview.com]:
In Qualitex Co. v. Jacobson Prods. Co., the U.S. Supreme Court held that color alone may be protected as a trademark, “when that color has attained ‘secondary meaning’ and therefore identifies and distinguishes a particular brand (and thus indicates its ‘source’).” The Court held color may not be protected as a trademark when it is “functional”. There are two types of functionality: “utilitarian” and “aesthetic.” A color is functional under the utilitarian test if it is essential to the use or purpose of the product, or affects the cost or quality of the product. A color is aethestically functional if its exclusive use “would put a competitor at a significant non-reputation-related disadvantage”. If color “act(s) as a symbol that distinguishes a firm’s goods and identifies their source, without serving any other significant function,” it can be protected as a trademark.
If you work around lots of multimeters, as I do, Fluke certainly has distinguished itself by looks
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How is this a good thing for SparkFun? (Score:4, Interesting)
So, SparkFun, a company in the business of selling multimeters, is now being gifted a large number of its competitors superior product. How is this a good thing? They've still lost a ton of money on their own shipment, and can't even give away the Fluke meters without likely reducing the demand for their own product, and probably making their product look bad in comparison as well. Maybe they could sell them to try to recoup some of their losses, but that risks damaging their public image.
Unless they can manage some seriously good PR spin, this looks to me kind of like SparkFun is receiving a very polite and well-spoken slap in the face by Fluke.
Re:How is this a good thing for SparkFun? (Score:5, Insightful)
SparkFun is in the business of selling DIY electronics. They're more like a modern Heath.
They're out the original shipment, but Fluke stepped in with an absolutely unnecessary act of goodwill. Now SparkFun's broken even, because they still have multimeters to sell to make their business, and the customers that would have bought the original ones still want multimeters, and now SparkFun has the Fluke brand, to boot...
But this is no longer in the hands of the inventory people. This is marketing. Sure, SparkFun could probably sell the multimeters at a very nice profit, but that's not their business. They're selling electronics in general, so they thrive on the repeat business rather than one-time equipment sales. Giving away these multimeters to loyal customers is a nice way to build their own brand loyalty.
Fluke looks like the good guy. SparkFun gets cheap viral marketing. Everybody's walking away happy.
Re:How is this a good thing for SparkFun? (Score:4, Informative)
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SparkFun and Fluke aren't even in the same league though, their customer bases are completely different. that's like saying Ferarri giving Chevrolet 30 cars to do with as they wish because of a mix-up on something that cost chev 300 cars, and Ferarri out of the goodness of their hearts (aka for good PR) gives them free cars, suddenly those 30 ferarris are going to reduce demand of Chevs?
of course not. the Market for people who buy Ferarris, is not the same as the guys who buy Chevs. same with the guys w
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I always feel good when I hold my Yellow fluke. Somehow I associate that color with a symbol of quality. SO as stupid as copyrighting Yellow for multimeters sounds when you say it out loud, I can see that this is actually something of immense value to the brand in this case. If you are not a EE then you probably don't understand this sensation.
Win Win Win Except... (Score:2)
Except for the huge loss and waste of those sparkfun meters, which last I checked were still being destroyed.
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Sparkfun is trying to divert at least some of the meters to other countries, where the Fluke trademark does not apply.
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That is great news, I hope they are able to do that.
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Honestly, those things were POS anyways. Cheap meters are a safety hazard and potentially lethal. Yes. lethal.
They're constructed poorly, have little to no input protection and have unpredictable overload behavior. Use them for anything more than low voltage measurements and you're putting your life in danger.
Flukes, Agilent (err, Keysight), etc., they all construct their meters with protection. You
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Their trademark, which is for "multimeter with yellow border", which they essentially stole from over 20 years of common publicly-available usage during which Fluke's own multimeters were typically grey?
One better? Well, sort of. (Score:2, Interesting)
That original $30,000 shipment was apparently 2,000 multimeters. I'm guessing that $30,000 "worth" of Fluke meters, while a nice gift, will constitute a lot fewer units, meaning fewer makers will end up getting their hands on a meter.
Re:One better? Well, sort of. (Score:4, Informative)
The Ars Technica article notes that the shipment of meters from Fluke exceeds the value of the original dodgy multimeters.
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Ya, which is marketing speak for as little extra as possible. Obviously it it not going to come out even.
When they say more than $30K, they do not mean $60K, they mean $30K and chance.
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They could sell them, and then use that money to pay for a new non-infringing shipment of (inferior) multimeters.
Of course since it's important for them to appear altruistic, they'll probably just give away a smaller number of (superior) multimeters.
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That original $30,000 shipment was apparently 2,000 multimeters. I'm guessing that $30,000 "worth" of Fluke meters, while a nice gift, will constitute a lot fewer units, meaning fewer makers will end up getting their hands on a meter.
I guess the makers will have to get by on $10 eBay meters instead of $15 SparkFun meters (that coincidentally, *also* have the Fluke color scheme).
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digita... [ebay.com]
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That original $30,000 shipment was apparently 2,000 multimeters. I'm guessing that $30,000 "worth" of Fluke meters, while a nice gift, will constitute a lot fewer units, meaning fewer makers will end up getting their hands on a meter.
I guess the makers will have to get by on $10 eBay meters instead of $15 SparkFun meters (that coincidentally, *also* have the Fluke color scheme).
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digita... [ebay.com]
Or this $5 unit from Harbor Freight, [harborfreight.com] that also happens to have a spot for testing PNP and NPN transistors.
That is, $5 if you don't have one of the "free multimeter" coupons they put in the Sunday paper every other week.
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That original $30,000 shipment was apparently 2,000 multimeters. I'm guessing that $30,000 "worth" of Fluke meters, while a nice gift, will constitute a lot fewer units, meaning fewer makers will end up getting their hands on a meter.
I guess the makers will have to get by on $10 eBay meters instead of $15 SparkFun meters (that coincidentally, *also* have the Fluke color scheme).
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digita... [ebay.com]
Or this $5 unit from Harbor Freight, [harborfreight.com] that also happens to have a spot for testing PNP and NPN transistors.
That is, $5 if you don't have one of the "free multimeter" coupons they put in the Sunday paper every other week.
That one won't work, it's red, not yellow. Yellow meters are better, that's why everyone wants a Fluke.
So, they're sending like, 6 multimeters? (Score:2)
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Unless you are getting multi-meters that "fell off the back of the truck" I don't think anyone is going to confuse a $3000 MM with a cheap knockoff. It's not like buying a fake Rolex, people don't drop 3 large for a MM unless they have very specific requirements, like drop-proof, water-proof, dust-proof, etc. for use in a heavy industrial environment. Most of Fluke's MM's can be purchased for a few hundred USD (depending on your definition of few).
I checked Fluke-Direct.com and there are 2 models over 1000
What Fluke multimeter costs $3K? (Score:2)
Maybe a few high end benchtop ones, but all their handheld DMMs (which is what this whole issue is about) are well under the $3K level. You can buy an entry-level Fluke DMM for less than $150 last I checked. Most of the mainstream models are $300-$400.
And if you actually make your living using instruments like these, they are worth every penny you pay. Even if just for the security that the thing isn't going to blow up in your face when testing mains power...
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Color has been a possible part of trademark for a long time. Trademarks are not "intellectual property." It is consumer protection law, meant to prevent knock-off products from looking too much like the desired products. Hey, my friend had this awesome multimiter, and this $15 one in front of me looks like it. I think I'll get it. The cheap multimeter caused confusion in the market, and a
Yellow isn't always Fluke (Score:2)
I'm looking at a digital multimeter from Radio Shack that I bought about 5 years ago when they closed a store near me. It sure looks like the same shade of yellow...
Kudos to Fluke (Score:2)
A great move in a difficult situation.
It's a one-time jesture. (Score:3)
Message to Fluke (Score:2)
I use your multimeters and love them. Please allow SparkFun to have a one-time, royalty-free license to use your trademark for this batch of multimeters.
No one is going to confuse these multimeters with those of Fluke. And it will be a good-will gesture that those of us in the EE community would appreciate.
byteherder
Is that cost of production, wholesale, or retail? (Score:2)
Is that $30K cost of production, wholesale, or retail?
This last shipment was apparently $5 a multimeter, but they were probably going to sell them at over $40 a pop (random guess).
If these replacements are measured in retail price, it probably only cost the company a few hundred to manufacture them.
No easy way out. (Score:2)
There was never a chance of giving away the meters to an NPO, trade school, or public school. The hardware would inevitably be as suspect as the look-alike case. I am not convinced that there is a place for the $15 multimeter even in the makerbot movement.
Any shorthand description of Fluke and its product lines will read like corporate PR. but that can't be helped.
Fluke, a subsidiary of Danaher (maker of Craftsman tools), makes handheld electronic test tools used by electricians, HVAC technicians, and engineers to install, maintain, and service electrical and electronic equipment. Its multimeters, oscilloscopes, and other devices measure current, voltage resistance, frequency, pressure, temperature, and air quality. It also makes calibrators and calibration software, waveform generators, and power harmonics meters. Its Fluke Biomedical unit makes patient simulators, diagnostic imaging, and radiation safety products, among others.
Fluke Corporation Company Profile [yahoo.com]
The cheapest Fluke multimeter I could find online sells for about $150 and is CAT III rated for 600 volts.
This category refers to measurements on hard-wired equipment in fixed installations, distribution boards, and circuit breakers. Other examples are wiring, including cables, bus bars, junction boxes, switches, socket outlets in the fixed installation, and stationary motors with permanent connections to fixed installations.
Wha [ni.com]
Re: (Score:2)
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good on them.... (Score:2)
Fluke could have just as easily done nothing but they see the sparkfun community for what it is. A group of people who are technical hobbyists, a sizable number of which are probably in purchasing positions in their professional lives... I have both fluke's a Simpson, and some cheapy meters. I have cheapies in the toolboxes of my trucks where all I care about is "is this wire live" or "is there some continuity between here and ground"... I don't care about accuracy. I use my Fluke's when I want accuracy.
Step up your game Sparkfun (Score:5, Funny)
Good for Fluke! (Score:2)
Fluke did their job well. Now it's up to Sparkfun.
Whoever gets those will have the experience of using a good multimeter. I have a Fluke 21 on my desk right now. It's over 20 years old. Autoranges over inputs from 1mV to 1KV. Auto power off. Runs for years on a 9V battery. Test leads have good strain reliefs and don't wear out in normal use. Finger guards on the probes so you don't slip into a live circuit. Ohms measurement still calibrated properly; goes to 0.00 if you hold the probes together tightly.
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Fluke did their job well. Now it's up to Sparkfun.
Missing from summery is the Sparkfun webpage https://www.sparkfun.com/news/... [sparkfun.com] sparkfun which claims "SparkFun has officially accepted their offer and will be donating the Fluke multimeters to several educational institutions and schools" if you read the comments Africa would be a good area to start looking for drop off spots.
Win-win (Score:2)
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It rolls downstairs
alone or in pairs
rolls over the neighbor's dog
It's great for a snack
It fits on your back
it's log log log!
I'm more than a little disturbed I still remember that.
Fluke saves their trademark look and face, Kool (Score:3)
I dabble in electronics, Fluke is a very nice MultiMeter. TheRegnirps claimed on sparkfun when Fluke was being seen in a bad light: " I used to have a high voltage supply (I used for calibrating photomultipliers) from Fluke, a 5kV supply with rotary switches all the way down to 0.1 volt steps and it was dead on. This kind of thing is not easy. "
A separate post not a reply, even stole a quote; in hopes others follow Flukes example as well as an attaboy to Fluke.
Don't count on people not to mistake these (Score:2)
However because some people were acquiring these crappy copies believing them to be the real thing, sales of the o
Banned due to color (Score:3)
If this isn't a prime example of why IP laws need to be tossed into the garbage i don't know what is.
Sure, its great Fluke stepped up the plate to help out, but this should have never been an issue in the first place. It's a *COLOR* ... geesh
Re: (Score:2)
Whenever Urza is still fictional.
Re:Nice recover (Score:5, Informative)
If you believe fluke's statement on the matter (personally I do), they didn't initiate this whole mess.
They didn't, but did, but didn't... (Score:3, Insightful)
They didn't.. insofar as Fluke reps standing at ports waiting for a multimeter to pass by their eyes and go "Whoa, Nelly!" - or even getting a call in advance telling them that a shipment of DMMs was found that may or may not infringe.
They did... insofar as Fluke having registered for the trade dress in the first place.
They didn't... insofar as cheap knockoffs trying to copy Fluke's looks - regardless of intent there, Fluke rather they didn't - and since asking nicely tends not to work, trade dress it is.
A
Re:They didn't, but did, but didn't... (Score:5, Insightful)
They did... insofar as Fluke having registered for the trade dress in the first place.
People really need to stop blaming companies for participating in the current P&T system that we have. Until you enter "troll" territory (starting legal fights over clearly dubious P&Ts), registering trademarks and patents is just good business sense.
Want to make a change, stop blaming Fluke or whoever and push for patent / trademark reform.
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This doesn't completely make sense (although I also believe Fluke didn't actively initiate the action).
How would the Customs/Border "Protection" guys know whether or not SparkFun had a license from Fluke? Someone at CBP must have suspected something, and made a few phone calls asking questions first. They can't (legally) just claim Trademark/dress infraction and block passage because some random employee had a feeling in his gut.
They must have contacted someone (either SparkFun or Fluke) who said SparkFun d
Re:Kind of an empty gesture (Score:5, Insightful)
As the article notes, SparkFun isn't about to try to resell these guys, so SparkFun is still out their entire shipment. What would have been a lot more meaningful of Fluke to do would be to cancel the trademark. That being said, I love Fluke multimeters. Five years of physics labs really made me believe their unofficial motto, "If it works, it's a Fluke."
Why should they cancel their trademark? In what world is that even remotely the right thing to do here?
The slashdot community is hilarious sometimes.
Re:Kind of an empty gesture (Score:5, Insightful)
Here's the way it works around here:
If I produce software, I want to get paid for it. If someone else produces software, I'll steal it.
When I make a product, no one else can make anything like it. When someone else makes a product like someone else, they're free to rip off the design because you can't copyright or trademark that shit.
Re:Kind of an empty gesture (Score:5, Insightful)
You forgot the part where it is appropriate to go to a grocery store, determine for yourself how much the goods on the shelves should cost, and leave that dollar amount on the shelf in lieu of paying what the grocer is asking.
But those bastards better not abuse the licensing terms on my software.
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The slashdot community is hilarious sometimes.
Here's the way it works around here:
If I produce anything, I demand to get paid for it. If someone else produces anything, I'll insist that it's my right to steal it.
Your original statement was a bit to specific, IMO.
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I think a lot of the worst hypocrisies come from different people speaking up at different times. You'll rarely catch one individual being quite so blatant about it.
That said, there are also a lot of individuals who write software and grumble that their bosses don't give it away, not realizing that if they did, they'd be out of a job. Many are counting on the fact that their software is specialized, such that nobody else would particularly want it, and can smugly believe their jobs to be safe while the peop
Re:Kind of an empty gesture (Score:5, Insightful)
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Road cones are orange. Fire extinguishers are red. Safety vests are fluorescent orange. Ground wires are green/yellow...
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What would have been a lot more meaningful of Fluke to do would be to cancel the trademark.
I wonder if it should have been granted in the first place. Yellow rubber meter holders existed far before 2000 when this color trademark was granted. Which means that Fluke may have not been entitled to it in the first place. Maybe the fine legal minds on Slashdot can help explain it to me.
I understand Fluke's desperation at wanting to stop low cost meters from undercutting their business, but let's face it, China has been undercutting everyone's business. I don't see what makes them so special to avoid i
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Except that Fluke's "trademark" is actually a trade dress and it's not for the color yellow it's for the colors yellow and dark grey applied in a specific pattern.
Re:Kind of an empty gesture (Score:5, Informative)
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Fluke would possibly take on some sort of legal liability (or at the least, popular association) by associating in any way with the infringing shipment. Since the shipment is made up of imports of questionable (and probably poor) quality, this would be a dangerous move from a liability, trade dress, marketing, and general safety perspective.
The instant someone sticks the probes in a wall socket and finds out that the meter wasn't really designed to handle anywhere close to the 600V it says, they'd be in a w
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Re:$30K = 2K Sparkfun Multis = 100 Fluke Multis (Score:5, Insightful)
Trademarking a color combination and JUST that it's BS.
It is bullshit to say this is only about the color combination. The knockoff ones look exactly like Fluke devices, and it is hardly accidental. Your argument makes it seem that some good faith is involved on the part of the manufacturer of the fake Fluke meters, and that the violation is trivial, but that is simply not the case.
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But the styling is obviously worth something if the knock-off company went out of their way to make their clone have exactly the same styling.
Knock-off manufacturers deliberately making their poor quality imitations mistakable for high quality products is exactly what trademarks and trade dress laws are for.
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What about five years down the line when neither of them are in their retail packaging and all of the logos have worn off the cheapo imitation. Are you too dumb to use a meter when you pick this up off of a bench and trust that it can actually handle 600 V without bursting into flames?
Without the SparkFun logo, anyone who has used a Fluke would look at the meter and say that it's a Fluke. This case has everything to do with trade dress [wikipedia.org]:
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And of course, it may be 30k in lost revenue, but their actual cost per unit, including shipping, was probably closer to $5. I'd be surprised if they actually lost more than 10k on this.
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good point, See Dewalt... they have a trademark on their design as well which also includes a Yellow color scheme.
(from http://www.dewalt.com/ [dewalt.com]) The following are trademarks for one or more DEWALT Power Tools and Accessories: The yellow and black color scheme; the "D"-shaped air intake grill; the array of pyramids on the handgrip; the kit box configuration; and the array of lozenge-shaped humps on the surface of the tool.
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There's a famous HBS case study on Dewalt. Black & Decker bought the brand (which was at that point restricted to woodworking tools), and used it to rebrand their Black & Decker professional line. They chose yellow/black as a color scheme since it was familar both from the "safety sign/tape" schema and because blue was Makita and red was Skil or Hilti or probably a few others as well, so the black/yellow would stand out. They didn't change the actual tools (which got good ratings when people didn
Re:No. (Score:5, Interesting)
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Why should anyone invest in open-source if someone else can just clone it and sell it cheaper ? The answer less a physical one than a perceived one. When people buy Channel 5 perfume, or a Dior bag, they do not buy a perfume or a bag, they buy a marketing image. I knew someone who tried to sell Channel 5 copy, the whole scheme ended up in an utter failure, as people would prefer to buy the original image rather than the copy.
All in all, I strongly believe that the copy market is not not detrimental to the c
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When people buy Channel 5 perfume, or a Dior bag, they do not buy a perfume or a bag, they buy a marketing image.
Fluke isn't selling a style or a marketing image or any other form of consumer entertainment. They're selling high-quality multimeters. The style is to make their products look distinctive. The impounded products we're talking about here clone the style, but not the quality. It's the total opposite of media piracy or knock-off perfume, where the end product is identical.
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destruction is almost always a waste of resources. But Sparkfun is doing ok here. They have $30,000 worth of meters at retail, but they did not pay $30,000 for them. They probably paid $9000. They could sell the Flukes for at least $20,000, or sell some of them for the $9000 and donate the rest.
The cheapo meters should be sent to another country for donation though.
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They have to aggressively protect their trademark, or they risk losing it. If they accept and allow 2,000 more, the next guy can come along and say their shipment of 2,000 doesn't do harm to Fluke, see they allowed SparkFun to do it. Fluke needs these cheap knock-offs out of circulation.