Sony Selling Off VAIO Computer Business 204
Kensai7 writes "Confirming reports from earlier in the week, Sony has announced plans to sell off its VAIO computer division to a Japanese investment fund. Japan Industrial Partners (JIP) will take control of the operation for an undisclosed fee, and Sony will 'cease planning, design and development of PC products.' For a variety of reasons 'including the drastic changes in the global PC industry,' Sony says 'the optimal solution is to concentrate its mobile product lineup on smartphones and tablets and to transfer its PC business to a new company.'" I have some nostalgia for the tiny old VAIO laptops; I wish more companies incorporated the swiveling camera that they came with.
Sad news (Score:5, Insightful)
i am on my 3rd sony vaio product - have been using them for the past decade pretty much. OMG. Sony's vaio design team is awesome!!! Very sad news.
Re:Sad news (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Sad news (Score:4, Interesting)
Oddly enough, not one story on slashdot in the last couple days about Beta. So, of course, we discuss it in every other story on the site.
I tried it again today and if you think the article and comments sections are horrible, you should see the user profile section.
We cannot see how many replies a comment we had written has received. I find this an important tool to answer questions I have (just look at some of my previous comments) about the topic at hand.
Why couldn't they have just adjusted the style sheet a bit and let everything else stay the same? If they wanted to open up another site, they could have just done that and left /. alone. The domain name can't be *that* lucrative for them.
Re:Sad news (Score:5, Insightful)
Because only a tiny percentage of PC users want to use (or have even heard of) Linux. Like it or not, we are in the minority.
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And the primary reason for that is that the manufacturers are not promoting machines running it, and are sometimes even prevented from doing so by agreements with MS.
Very few people actually want to use windows either, most use whatever is available and don't actually care what it is. A lot of people actually hate windows, and only tolerate it because they are unaware or afraid of any alternatives.
Most of the arguments against linux are entirely bogus and have been proven untrue. With appropriate marketing
Re:Sad news (Score:4, Insightful)
Most of the arguments against linux are entirely bogus and have been proven untrue.
Here is the problem with Linux. And *BSD as well.
It doesn't run the commercial software I need to successfully fulfill my objectives.
We can point our fingers at Adobe, Microsoft, and other commercial players who limit access of their apps to expand their own markets at the expense of Linux. But the model that open source would engender network effects and overtake commercial players who would shoot their own feet by refusing to develop on the platform...well, that turned out to be false.
The open source community beat commercial players on a limited playing field in server space. And then the commercial players changed the game. Ironically, Linux has become even more irrelevant as a populist movement because of its backend success.
The Linux desktop lost for valid reasons. It's been out there long enough to catch hold and it hasn't. It's long past time to look inward on that front. It's popular failure is entirely self-inflicted.
Re:Sad news (Score:4, Informative)
You live in a funny world -
In MY world, sucks to be me I suppose, I have to use PROGRAMS. That are only written for Windows (maybe OS X, but few Enterprise programs are in OS X). Those PROGRAMS won't run on Linux or WINE (or Windows 7 but that's another issue).
In MY world, we have to attach to a network with fairly strict controls. Yes, a Linux network could do that, but since Linux won't run the PROGRAMS, it's hardly worth the effort.
PROGRAMS, PROGRAMS, PROGRAMS. Yes, the various distros have wonderful repositories for free software. Some of it excellent. A lot of it crap.
Your narrow world is just one reason why Linux won't displace Windows. Linux has, and will continue to make inroads into computing at a number of levels, the desktop does not appear to be one of them.
Re:Sad news (Score:4, Insightful)
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I thought it was about meatballs. bork bork bork!
Re:Sad news (Score:5, Interesting)
Well, yes. If, for example, Adobe wrote Creative Suite to run on Linux, a lot of folks who use those programs would consider moving off of OS X, especially given Apple's reluctance to come up with mid priced tower hardware instead of high tech ashtrays.
Autodesk does run on Linux but here you're talking high five and into the six figures - effectively not 'desktop'. And there is some other very, very pricey Linux enterprise software, but in this scenario, the workstations are really just chump change.
If MS ported the Office Suite to Linux, well, hell would probably freeze over, Stahlman would expire in a bought of apoplectic fury and quite a few places who don't rely on Windows based Line of Business software would switch, but I don't think that's happening any time soon.
So yes, Developers, Developers, Developers. Ballmer was right about that.
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In *YOUR* world...
for the vast majority of people the only network they have to attach to is the router their isp supplied, and the only program they want to run is probably a web browser.
out of repository programs are a huge pain in the ass, its hard enough getting users to update using a single central tool, but getting them to update (and in many different ways) all the different applications they're running too? that's a completely unreasonable expectation of the average end user and the result has been
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You missed some fairly important points:
1) Lack of familiarity: People bitch and moan and complain whenever MS makes the slightest change to their UI. Imagine having to learn a new OS, as well as all the new apps.
"Uhh, where's my C: drive?"
"Where did all my favorites go?"
" How do I get my pictures off my camera?"
2) Lack of online support. Any of the above question, you can easily Google the answer to for windows. Or you can even call Mi
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1, People were not familiar with ipads or android tablets, and yet people now use them...
2, theres plenty of linux related forums, calling microsoft gets you nowhere without a support contract and most people would call whoever they bought the machine from - if the machine came with linux then the supplier is just as likely to provide linux support.
3, there are very few actual windows experts, the system is simply far too opaque to understand it thoroughly... and besides, the same could be said about macos,
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(Score: 5, Absurd)
Fortunately, Windows 95 should resolve that pesky reliance on DOS and free us from the tyranny of the command line. Then, X Windows FTW! Jeesh, KDE is just as good. And Gnome uses callbacks! VISAFB all the way!
I'm placing my bets on SCO OpenServer. HP-UX is obsolete. Netcraft confirms it.
Re:Sad news (Score:4, Insightful)
You think it's absurd but I actually remember when the Microsoft hegemony started. It wasn't with Windows 95. It was long before.
People like to pretend that something other than the biggest turd available won the market. It hurts their brains to contemplate it.
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Good point - I think it began way back when DOS 2 (or was it 3?) came out, and Windows was just a bonus option that came with the machine (I had an old Amstrad 286 that arrived that way, and Windows was just a shitty TUI interface you turned on if you forgot where you put something, or wanted to organize stuff on your uber-expensive 10MB hard disk.)
As for the Vaios, I liked the one I did have - a Z1RA with an early P4 and a whole 2GB of RAM. Slick as hell, and for its time a very light (as in low-weight) li
Re:Sad news (Score:4, Insightful)
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I remember when Dos-Shell came out - it allowed you to view two directory listings side by side in a 120 x 50 text window split in half. That was considered revolutionary at the time.
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Although I agree with you about not wanting to buy such a PC, it's mostly neckbeards who care about that kind of stuff.
For most consumers a PC is a disposable item they use for a year or two, and they don't know what a firewire is.
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> Although I agree with you about not wanting to buy such a PC, it's mostly neckbeards who care about that kind of stuff.
Except it's really only Apple fanbois that care one way or the other about firewire in general.
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Ok, to be precise:
Neckbeards care about firewire interoperability and wouldn't buy a PC with a proprietary connector even if they don't actually use firewire
Apple fanbois, who for some reason might have been considering a Sony laptop instead of a Macbook despite their status as fanbois, might have cared. Or they might just have bought an adapter, which they are well used to doing.
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you mean 'memory stick'. mmc is nearly the same as sd-card.
It's all because of Beta. (Score:5, Funny)
That would not have happened had those Dice assholes not try to push Beta on everyone.
Fuck Beta. It killed vaio.
Also, those dolphins washing up dead on the beaches? Beta killed them too.
One-way street to BETA (Score:5, Informative)
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So who is left (Score:2, Interesting)
IBM sold all theirs off, HP/Compaq have merged, and Dell, who knows what is going on with that.
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HP/Compaq have merged
Current affairs are not your strong point that was nearly a decade ago!
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I didn't say when.. only that they did.
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Who is left - based on products actually available in stores in NL (and this is not 100% coverage):
HP+Compaq (437), Lenovo (270), Asus (260), Acer (191), Toshiba (173), Dell (166), [Sony (68)], Samsung (66), MSI (58), Fujitsu (37), Medion (21), Apple (20), Packard Bell (19), BTO (8). Then there's a few more from Panasonic, Razer, Gigabyte, Wortmann, System76, Google and Alternate. Medion and BTO are local-ish brands, Wortmann seems like a peculiar import out of Germany. ( Source:tweakers.net pricewatch )
L
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http://www.packardbell.co.uk/pb/en/GB/content/home
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Well, Packard Bell will tell you that it's a new computer.
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> Apple? They sell PCs. They can even run Windows.
Apple sells overpriced novelty form factors.
PC vendors on the other hand all sell machines with components that are interchangeable with one another. This is even a factor in their undoing as it is far easier to keep an old PC running than a Mac. I can put a standard aftermarket video card or SSD in an old craptacular PC and it can be as useful as a new Mac (or PC).
I remember my old Vaios. Both of them were tweaked with aftermarket RAM and hard drives be
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Will you settle down. Up your prozac or single malt as desired. Or perhaps both.
I know you hate Apple with some sort of delighted passion, but they're one of the few companies making money (remember that stuff?) in this environment. Somebody thinks they're doing something right.
Funny thing about my novelty level MacBook Pro - It's the only computer in the hospital that can run our legacy system (stuck on XP), our new system (Win 7 only), KDE and OSX. Everybody else is carrying two laptops or has two des
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Sony did the same. But they usually made around several dozen different models around a single laptop chassis and priced each model separately, and had different sized screens, disk-drives and memory configurations and maybe an option TV tuner board. By far the LCD screen was the most expensive replacement, at around $1000 . Some companies actually accepted the old screen as a trade-in discount. So it was cheaper to buy the model with the highest resolution screen, but the lowest price, then replace the har
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Personally, I think there are only 2 brands left worth buying. If you run a business and want to buy a large batch of cheaper computers with good support, you go with Dell. If you are a developer or gamer and want to buy a top of the line laptop you go with ASUS. I am both and I am on my 3rd ASUS in 10 years from www.xoticpc.com and I have been perfectly happy with all of them. So, there are still good manufactures and sellers out there.
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Dell, who knows what is going on with that.
Leveraged buyout, narrowly averted proxy fight, some shake up of C-level executives, and a workforce reduction of a few thousand.
You're welcome.
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I think the industry has been its own undoing, as efficiency has increased, prices have dropped and its been harder and harder to make money even tho PCs still sell. If you cant move the volume you cant survive.
We may end up with a single company making them here soon.
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Re:So who is left (Score:5, Interesting)
Is that good or bad?
For open platforms manufactured by large companies, it's bad. We can still buy barebones PCs and cheap laptops, but there's an obvious transition away toward locked down systems like tablets and consumer products.
OTOH: the old PC was a successor to prior hobby platforms that were fully open. The old ALTAIR / IMSAI, Heathkit, SWTPC, Apple II, etc world of 8 bit before it went corporate. If IBM had had its way, what we're seeing today would have happened much sooner. Ironically, we can thank Microsoft for stalling that outcome for decades. It had already happened twice with mainframe and minicomputer players decades before, as they swiped ideas and technology developed in university labs for commercialization and then locked them down.
So maybe this shift will engender a resurgence of very slow systems designed for hobbyists to built from scratch. A bifurcation of commercial products for the general public and a hobby community that might lead to hands on hardware / software development of entirely new platforms. A real resurgence of competition without commercial pressure because it's being done just for fun.
Such systems wouldn't fulfill the expectations of consumers. Nor should they. But they might be cool to tinker with. And that could have second order effects down the road that could impact future markets in unexpected ways. Or not. And who cares?
A hobbyist / commercial hardware split might be for the best.
Or, maybe I'm talking nonsense. I often do.
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So maybe this shift will engender a resurgence of very slow systems designed for hobbyists to built from scratch.
FPGA
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What Parent Poster said.
Okay, maybe not entirely. Let's instead admire the fact that the Arduino platform is, in many ways, what early computers were to people a generation or two ago. But growth out of that and onto more powerful platforms (Raspberry Pi or BBB, maybe a PCduino first or Intel's oddball attempt at smashing a PC and an Arduino together) will indeed drive a push toward FPGA use. Xilinx is certainly doing its share to help make that happen (it is in their interest, after all.) by making reas
Swiveling camera... (Score:2, Funny)
Yeah, a swiveling camera would have been handy on Chatroulette. With fixed cameras embedded in the screen frame it's much harder to actually see the reactions from the other participants...
Why sell? Why not burn and collect insurance? (Score:2, Informative)
I do not agree with some of the comments here. I have found Sony laptops and desktops to be wanting in so many ways not the least of which is the repairability. It amazes me they could actually put that many screws into such tight spaces. The screws must double the weight of their machines or more. And the durability of their machines? Ridiculous. I can't say that I ever bought or used any of their "high end" machines, but the ones I have worked with had problems at all levels. And I hate the softwar
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I had good luck with my Sony laptops. However, that's been a long time. I tried the "laptop as desktop replacement" thing and entirely got over it long before it became a trendy thing in general.
Perhaps they tried to be too much like Apple.
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Well, at least having screws are better than having held together by glue, and the high-end models (PCG-GRT series) did have the hard disk drive on the edge of the laptop rather than some cage in the middle of the chassis.
I know what you mean about all those screws. Replacing the screen or even the cooling assembly would require several ice trays to put every different component. The best way to describe how Sony must have designed a laptop was to start off with a gaming PC with a GTX Titan GPU and motherbo
Help kill beta! (Score:5, Informative)
Join the Slashcott!
February 10th - 17th
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It all depends on the numbers. If there is 5% less traffic in that week, they'll ignore it. If there is 50% less traffic, they might take notice.
Also, unlike most boycotts, this protest is not against an unpopular corporate policy, but against the product itself. The beta interface has such poor usability that I can't see myself using it, even if I wanted to.
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Fuck beta.
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Please stop. Please. If you really hate it so much, go start your own site. You can even run it on Slashcode, it's open source. You demonstrate day after day after day posting these hysterical anti-beta spam comments that you provide nothing of value to us, so your loss will be unnoticed.
It will end after awhile. In the meantime, I think there is something deserved here where at least a dialog between those making this change and those readers who are pissed should take place. When changes like this were proposed in the past, Rob Malda and the other original Slashdot guys would start a post specific to the issue and let people at least vent their spleen on that post. At this point it is a little too late for that kind of informed dissent.
At the moment, there is no dialog, and some people
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Welcome to the world of protest. Where people being upset at something enough to take action there will always be people inconvenienced by said action.
It is called free speech. Please feel free to continue and we will do likewise.
Fuck Beta (Score:5, Interesting)
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Can you meet us halfway and actually create a story for us to dump hatred into so that we can go back to commenting on articles we haven't read?
Actually there is a story. The problem is that it's hidden in the Slashdot Blog [slashdot.org] which most of us do not even know to exist.
Posted 3 days ago: Update on the March of Progress: How Slashdot's New Look Is Shaping Up [slashdot.org].
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Indeed. The wave is moving very quickly. Dice may have already lost it, but if they try right now and address it, there still may be time to save Slashdot. I'd rather see Slashdot saved than move off it, but I'm not sticking around out of nostalgia.
-- Common Joe
Valentines Day Slashcott: Boycott Slashdot because "Fuck Beta!": February 10 - 17
And Support Okian Warrior's [slashdot.org] alternate slashdot idea! A note from Okian can be found here: http://www.altslashdot.org/wiki/index.php?title=AltSlashdot [altslashdot.org]. And be patien
Congratulations Slashdot! Beta SUCKS (Score:5, Insightful)
My advice to the peons working on Slashdot: find another job. The veracity with which this "upgrade" is being pushed displays a stubborness that can only be attributed to MBAs with no idea of what Slashdot is about. The fact that the commenting system is such an afterthought in the Beta is as much evidence as I need that the people pushing this redesign never use this site.
I know you don't get to decide whether or not the Beta moves forward or which design gets used, but believe this: You WILL be blamed when it fails. You work for a corporation now and the higher ups with undoubtedly throw you under the bus when they have to explain to their bosses or shareholders why the website redesign failed. This failure is going to be associated with you and your teammates and it will set back any hopes you have of being promoted within the company. Take the advice of me and my fellow Slashdotters: Get out now.
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Audacity was the word I was thinking of. Arrogance.
On-topic comment (Score:3)
I was going to make an honest, on-topic comment.
But... screw it.
Fuck Beta!
Slashdot Beta: Day two (Score:5, Funny)
It was a fitful night. Not much rest. The way the tragic events unfolded yesterday had left a type of brain trauma I've not quite experienced before. Whitespace.... gobs and gobs of it.. summaries taking up the entirety of my browser window..... the damn thing was relentless and sneaky; Sometimes redirecting to a familiar and sane UI, yet other times..... DEAR GOD MAKE IT STOP!!!!!...... *gaaack*... *AAaccck* *synack*... *thump*.
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You first....
It's confirmed. (Score:2, Funny)
It is now official. Netcraft has confirmed: Slashdot is dying.
One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered Slashdot community when IDC confirmed that Slashdot page views has dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of all websites. Coming on the heels of a recent Netcraft survey which plainly states that Slashdot has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. Slashdot is collapsing in complete disarra
What is the big deal with VAIO? (Score:3)
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This came very close to my own experience. Sadly. I wish I could find a premium PC manufacturer who simply cared about delivering the computer without any sort of installed software, not even the OS (because even there there could be tweaking)...
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Add to that all the bloatware that Sony installed as standard and I really can't find an advantage.
At work a secretary played a Celine Deon CD on her PC, infecting it with one of the Sony root-kits just as I was making purchasing decision. I'm sure you're shocked to learn I placed Sony in the 'Hell No!' list.
Should the Sony Vaio division use their severance pay to hire hits on the Sony media division execs? They excluded Sony from consideration from a bit more than $100k of purchases I made...
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Well, they were trying to also "Apple-ify" the PC - actually putting in some really nice design and all that.
They basically tried to target the high end PC market like Apple does - nicer cases
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but in the late 90's, if you wanted the best laptop money could buy, you'd get a VAIO.
As someone who sold computers in the late 90s, I strongly disagree. The VAIO laptops were no better, and in some occasions were actually worse. The Thinkpad was the laptop for the person who wanted the best they could buy (and by some arguments they it still is).
Good riddance. Worst computers EVER to work on. (Score:4, Interesting)
Any full-sized laptop that requires you to remove the keyboard, all the top plastics, and heaps of fragile FPC cables just to get to the hard drive and memory is automatically ultra-shitty shit and the engineers responsible should be bear dick punched. [randomfunnypicture.com] Maybe the new owners will fix some of this mess.
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I've worked on my Sony TRxA series subnotebooks and I agree that they're rather frustrating. But they don't compare at all to the time I had to disassemble a 12" Powerbook G4 to replace the harddrive. I wish all laptops were as easy to work on as my Thinkpads, but we can't have everything in life.. :(
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I can say with authority that they're the WORST computer brand EVER when it comes to the repair business.
That may very much be, but I can say that Sony VAIO laptops (Z series) were the only viable competition to macbook air that I was able to find. Most of the PC laptops insist on using low-resolution displays (good luck finding 1600x900 display!) and are heavy. Granted, this was 2 years ago, but I do not think market has improved much.
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Betamax (Score:2)
I imagine the Slashdot beta (Score:5, Funny)
A Message from the Beta's Target Audience (Score:5, Interesting)
Dear Slashdot,
I'm fairly sure that I know what you're trying to do with Beta crap. You're trying to lure in a younger, more hip readership that's less technical but brings in more revenue. In other words, this "Web 2.0" redesign is trying to attract people exactly like me. I'm young, male, middle-class, and (possibly) looking for a new job, which I suspect is exactly the demographic you're aiming the Beta at. I'm also less technically inclined - I'm an actuary, not a programmer or an IT guy. As you can see from my posting history, I've only been here a short time, although I read and posted anonymously for a while at first.
But I hate Slashdot Beta every bit as much as the old fogies who are complaining above me. I don't come to Slashdot for flamebait articles or glitzy graphics, I come here because I want to learn about and discuss technical topics that I don't encounter in my day-to-day work. I read the discussions here so that I can understand the technical stuff that my office's IT lady tells me, and so that I can better understand the technology that I interact with. I comment in discussions here because I want to avoid the teenage, brain dead, narcissistic, color vomiting "new new internet" bullshit twittering that's infecting discourse on the rest of the internet.
I've just started participating in the Slashdot community. I'm pretty sure that I'm the exact demographic you want to attract. You had such a good opportunity to reel me in permanently. Yet you've utterly failed with Slashdot Beta. I've already abandoned a fair number of web communities after they gutted their discussion system or went too far with the Web 2.0 nonsense. Likewise, I'll regretfully, but quickly, abandon Slashdot if I'm forced into this Beta bullshit against my will and against the obvious will of the community here.
Sincerely,
hendrips, a representative member of your target audience
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Japan Industrial Partners (JIP) (Score:2)
"JIP"... How appropriate.
This just in... (Score:2, Insightful)
beta.slashdot is so bad that Sony had to sell its computer business.
I salute you (Score:3)
So Sony is (Score:2)
So now Sony Viaos will be JIP's?
I had always thought they were good computers.
At Sony headquarters (Score:3)
Fuck Beta, Fork Alpha.Time to resurrect slashcode? (Score:2)
http://sourceforge.net/projects/slashcode/ [sourceforge.net]
food for thought: http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?SlashDot [c2.com]
Good (Score:2)
Sony has no business making computers. Or at least, they have no business doing anything beyond designing hardware. The one time I got to play with a Vaio was when a manager asked me to 'set up' their brand new machine for them.
Long story short: The Vaio isn't a laptop. It's a marketing machine for selling other Sony products. Everywhere you turn, Sony was trying to sell you additional products, movies, music. There was so much crapware on that machine that it ran embarrassingly poorly, and the only o
Bad news but ... (Score:2)
Somehow I bet the investment fund will do better job building laptops than Dice keeping Slashdot alive. FUCK BETA!
And this is the beginning of the end... (Score:3)
They weren't computers (Score:3)
JIP? (Score:2)
Sounds too much like gyp.
That said I am in the apparent minority that will not mourn for VAIO.
I found them to be totally polar devices, either loved or hated by their users; there was no middle ground.
Yay! Fewer crappy computers! (Score:3)
Less crap computers to deal with.
Sure, the things always looked sexy.
But they'd break if you looked at them funny.
That and all the attempts to inject stupid, Sony-proprietary connectors on everything...
I won't miss VAIO at all.
I don't get it (Score:2)
What's so horrible about the Beta interface? It seems to work. I read my comments. I posted this reply. Functionality achieved.
I don't ask much of a forum.
Calling GNFOS and The Turd Report (Score:2)
This is a rallying cry for all old school trolls to report back to duty. GNFOS you need to spam, "Use beta? You're a GNFOS" and Turd report, you need to give us a daily detailed report on how your turds look better than the beta.
Re:Fuck Beta (Score:5, Insightful)
Indeed, a company that neglects the views of a site's user community is truly clueless. Slashdot has its own traditions, and Slashdotters like the fact that it has an older and faster design that allows more content on the page. That's part of what makes this site special. If Dice doesn't understand some of these very basic matters, then I don't trust them with the future of Slashdot.
The new design is really ugly Web 3.0 crap, by the way. Just a bunch of huge pictures, excessive whitespace, and fade effects -- treating a technical website like a picture book for Joe Sixpack! Part of the greatness of Slashdot was always its special moderation system, also, which controlled discussions in a positive way (not just +1 or -1 for dumb-dumbs). Talk about not understanding your demographic...
Re:Fuck Beta (Score:5, Insightful)
Indeed, a company that neglects the views of a site's user community is truly clueless.
Not only clueless, but it's sheer stupidity. They release a turd site and ask feedback to improve it. Then they take none of that feedback into consideration and begin rolling that same site into live. A site which no one likes. Then no one comes here anymore. What else is this than pure stupidity?
All right. I will calmly watch this show to the end and see what the final result is. But if it resembles anything like what they are cooking now, I am left with no other options than to leave this website.
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A witch! A witch!
Burn her!
Find a duck!
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1. Metro
2. Unity
3...Apple Maps
4...
5 SLASHDOT BETA!
6. Oracle
7. Lotus Notes
8. Healthcare.gov
9. PS/2
10. WIndows ME
11. Microsoft Bob
12. Clippy
13. Clippy
14. Clippy
15. Lotus Notes
"May no new thing arise" - Spanish prayer
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Yeah I know. Their notice says "we want to hear from you to make sure that the redesigned page has all the features you expect", but how many people have already told them that their arbitrary width restriction is fucking retarded and leaves half the widescreen monitor empty? Yet they've done nothing to fix it.
Re:Nostalgia? (Score:5, Insightful)
So far I've seen Beta only once - the /. page showed up all messed up, and asked me if I wanted to try it out, to which I quickly said no - and since then I haven't been bothered.
But I must say, if Beta truly is as atrocious as I've once seen it, I won't be visiting this here site much in the future.