Video $499 3-D Printer Drew Plenty of Attention at CES (Video) 155
Timothy:Gary, could you go ahead and introduce yourself please?
Gary:Okay. Thanks Timothy. It is a very nice to have this opportunity to introduce Da Vinci 1.0 from XYZprinting. I think the key point that I want to talk about this printer is not just its amazing price which we offer to the market at $499, but also the printer features itself. We have no less, any less features than most of the current benchmarking products in the market. We have a larger build size, we have superb quality.
Timothy:How big is that build size?
Gary:It is 7.8 inch x 7.8 inch x 7.8 inch. So it is a fairly large build size. Also, if you can find the quality, it is also superb. But the most important is I think to bring up two points. One is the ease of use, the easy user interface. We try to manipulate the typical 2-D printers, the laser printers, plug and play kind of thing, you don’t have to do any kind of assembly or complicated setup for the printer, so just plug in USB cable, you can press print and do 3-D printing. On the other hand, there are lots of safety features for home users. So we try to put the entire package into an enclosure, so you don’t get burnt you don’t get into any kind of difficulties from the printing operations. So safety is one of our biggest concerns for the typical consumers. So again, to bring the price down, and we can do it better than anyone else, and then also, we have a nice quality ease of use and safety features for the product itself.
Timothy:Talk about the filament that you use.
Gary:Yes. It is a typical ABS filament, and also later on we will have PLA in a couple of months’ time.It is like cassette loading, very easy loading. So you buy the filaments from us, it is USD 28 for a 600 gm pack.
Timothy:Now the build platform here, is that motorized?
Gary:Yes it is.
Timothy:Is it heated?
Gary:Yes it is heated.Actually two main heating elements, one is the print head or the nozzle, another one is the print bed, so just to try to make the print quality well.So the heated bed is actually one of the features for us to make sure the quality is outstanding.
Timothy:What sort of files does it work with?
Gary:Standard STL files, you can grab from our own website or from any lots of database websites you can get, and also we have our own dedicated proprietary file formats you can transfer from a standard STL file to our proprietary formats. For printing files from files for proprietary formats, you can reserve or you can save to some dedicated configuration in order to get an optimized printer outcome.
Timothy:Can you show me how does data actually get into the printer here? It is an USB port or do you have SD slot?
Gary:Okay, from computer. So we have a lot of software all you need to have is a standard STL file downloaded from the web, and then just open the file from using our softwares and there are some easy configurations_____14:42and you just press print button.
Timothy:So it is a USB connection?
Gary:That’s right. Through a computer.
Timothy:Can we see the back?
Gary:Sorry?
Timothy:Can we see the back of the machine?
Gary:The back of the machine? Well, actually another cool thing is there is nothing at the back. Because the entire operation is within the enclosure. So the filament installation is inside the machine itself. So it is very easy to use. You might see the printer size is not that small but because we have a higher enclosure inside the machine, so the entire movement is inside the machine during operations. So that’s why the printer size looks a little bit big, but in terms of the operation size we are not bigger than anyone else.
Timothy:Now what about availability? Is it shipping right now?
Gary:Okay, it will be available in about a month and a half’s time, it should be available somewhere by the beginning of March.
Timothy:And is that worldwide?
Gary:Well, some parts of the world it is already available such as Taiwan and China. But for US market, we will available, people will be able to get the product on online channels from early March.
Yeah yeah (Score:5, Insightful)
But what will the cartridges cost? And will they 'expire' each time I unwrap and insert one?
("Nudge nudge, wink wink HP?")
Re:Yeah yeah (Score:5, Interesting)
Inkjet cartridges expire so quickly after being opened because they contain ink... which is wet, and evaporates, leaving dry residue in the compartment which cannot be used.
You will save money in the long run in printing costs if you just buy a laser printer, because toner is dry, and does not evaporate from the container. The cartridges are more expensive, but you will buy them so much less frequently that you will actually save a lot of money in the end.
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I still have a color laser that I bought in '06 for around $75 when a local Office Depot moved. It still sits on the network for the occasional time I need to print out a decent photo in full color, still on its "starter" cartridges...
Yes, replacing the cartridges would be $350 or so... but for ~1000 or so color pages? Worth it. If I get ten full color photos from a $50 inkjet cartridge pair, I'm lucky.
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Well, and plastic filament absorbs water quite fast, so they have all the excuse they want for expiring it.
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Inkjet cartridges expire so quickly after being opened because they contain ink... which is wet, and evaporates, leaving dry residue in the compartment which cannot be used.
While that may be true, it is not why inkjet cartridges expire so quickly (after all most printers park the head, effectively minimizing exposure to air). No, the real reason they don't last long is because manufacturers don't put much ink in them. Most cartridges could hold two to three times the stated ink levels.
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Brother MFC-665cw keeps ink from clogging (Score:2)
If unusued for a week or two, my Brother printer will exercise the ink cartridge briefly to prevent it from blocking. Yes, this does involve using up a bit of the ink. I had our brother printer sit unusued for a year, plugged in, turned on (just in case we needed it -- but we happened to be in a phase of our lives where we didn't for a long time). I noticed that the ink level would go down slowly even when unused.
Compare that to my old HP inkjet. Sat unusued for a season or so, and then the ink cartridg
cartridges last just fine (Score:2)
Inkjet cartridges expire so quickly after being opened because they contain ink... which is wet, and evaporates, leaving dry residue in the compartment which cannot be used.
BS. Back in the 90's I used the same ink cartridge in an old deskjet for something like a year or two and it worked just fine; it eventually ran out of ink and had to be replaced. I live in a state where it gets extremely dry during the winters. No issues.
We have a giant plotter-size inkjet at work that hadn't been used in 3 years.
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As you rightly point out... many CFL's don't actually last as long as they purport, so they can end up being more expensive than incandescents.
Toner, however, really doesn't ever evaporate. Ink does.. leaving behind an unusable residue in the inkjet cartridge's compartment that will require replacing long before you've actually exhausted the raw material you originally purchased unless you are printing in high enough volume that evaporation is not an issue.
But if you are printing in that high volume, t
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Except cheap laser printers are roughly the same cost as cheap ink-jet printers at about $50.
"Cheap" color laser printers are a bit more than $50.
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Except cheap laser printers are roughly the same cost as cheap ink-jet printers at about $50.
"Cheap" color laser printers are a bit more than $50.
And for both, they pretty much give you the printer, knowing that they will make it up on the cartridges. After all, for most "cheap" printers, whether inkjet or laser, the replacement cartridges (full set on inkjet) are about 50% or more of the cost of the printer. Since the printer comes with a cartridge set, it is unlikely there is any profit in the printer itself. It is only a means to selling more cartridges.
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Except cheap laser printers are roughly the same cost as cheap ink-jet printers at about $50.
"Cheap" colour laser printers are a bit more than $50.
They don't cost that much more. You can pick one up in Australia for A$80. [officeworks.com.au]
Should be fine for the home printing in colour, I'd probably spend a little bit more if it were a business or I expected to to a fair bit of printing (around $150-250 depending on expected usage).
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You're probably the same idiot who tells everyone to buy CFL light bulbs because they're "cheaper", when any idiot can compare prices and see they are so much more expensive than standard bulbs
But in this case, the idiot is the one who tells people to buy inkjets because they're "cheaper", when any idiot who can compare prices as well as consumable lifespans (which sadly is not a foregone conclusion) can tell that the price per page is better for laser at a surprisingly small number of pages printed.
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I went with LED bulbs not because they will "pay me back" in energy costs. Instead, it is pure laziness on my part. Some bulbs I want to change as few times on possible, such as the one at the top of the stairs or behind a mirror.
Plus, if I drop a LED, it bounces, and may end up breaking. I then pick it up and toss it in the trashcan. A broken glass bulb is a lot more annoying to get picked up, and a CFL is a mini Superfund site.
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Re:Yeah yeah (Score:5, Insightful)
I did the same (Score:2)
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According to their site [xyzprinting.com], each cartridge costs $28 for 600g of ABS plastic, available in 12 colors.
Re:Yeah yeah (Score:4, Insightful)
Ink cartridges that expire each time you unwrap them? Where are you from, the '90's? Welcome to the future my friend, today we have ink cartridges that expire while sitting, un-opened, on the shelf.
I'm not really joking, we have an HP plotter where I work that does exactly this. When they went to replace the ink cartridge, they found that the entire stock of back-up cartridges had already "expired" according to a pre-set date built into a chip in the cartridge. Thankfully, HP was nice enough to provide a setting hidden away in the firmware that lets you over-ride that check. My guess is that they think the pro-market might not be willing to put up with their crap if they pushed it that far.
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Unhappy Inkmouth [theoatmeal.com]
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But what will the cartridges cost? And will they 'expire' each time I unwrap and insert one?
("Nudge nudge, wink wink HP?")
More importantly, how fine a line can it lay down. One could probably build one for even less if you don't mind low resolution. However, just like an dot-matrix printer is cheaper than a laser printer, very few would tolerate the low resolution.
OTOH, if they can produce a $495 3D printer that is comparable to what is already on the market, that would be fantastic.
3dnewsen article - auto translated? (Score:2)
The article at dailynewsen.com is so full of grammatical errors that it looks like a machine translation. It's really hard to understand. Slashdot editors need a shared list of "don't link to this site" domains, so that if they get a submission that is based on one, they can find a better source instead.
Re:3dnewsen article - auto translated? (Score:5, Informative)
I'd pay more for color (Score:2)
If I had a choice between a monocolor 3d printer or a color 3d printer- it would be color all the way.
This field is so young, I expect a significant increase in quality over the next couple years too so that makes me want to wait.
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If by "colour" you mean multiple different plastics then yes. You're much better off using one ABS/PLA filament and one PVA than two colours since it allows the support material to be printed in water soluable PVA.
The quality has bee going forwards pretty quickly.
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Being with plastic is being melted before it puts its layer down, why don't we mix the pigments in at the point that it is melted.
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Difficulty.
The plastics are melted as far as a fairly stiff goo. Basically you've got a conical nozzle with a basic resistive heater and thermostat attached. A servo shoves a solid filament dow a tube at the nozzle.
Basically, the current extruders are REALLY simple. Mixing in pigment would increase the complexity vastly. It's not that hard to have multiple extruders and you get better flexibility too. With even more extruders, you can have several sized nozzles. A small one for delicate outer work and a lar
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More then just Color.
I would like Color, with multiple materials. Say Plastic, with metal, glass and rubber.
multiple materials (Score:2)
I want transparent aluminum, scrith, and superconductor
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Why is it so cheap? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Why is it so cheap? (Score:4, Insightful)
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The da Vinci 1.0 will also notify you when the filament is running low so you don’t run out.
I'm sure it will...
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I was at CES, and I specifically asked to see one of the filament cartridges. Assuming the ones on the show floor are the same design that will ship with the printer, there are no electrical contacts on the cartridge, so likely no "chip" as is the case with ink cartridges. It looked to me like it would be fairly straightforward to reload one of the cartridges with commodity filament.
"So you buy the filaments from us...." (Score:5, Insightful)
Proprietary consumables? Seriously? When are we gonna get past this crap? Ever?
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People complain about proprietary consumables when it comes to printers, yet people keep buying the ones that use them. Printers exist that are pretty favorable to 3rd party refills, but they are more expensive so people tend not to buy them.
You can have low initial cost + higher recurring cost, or high initial cost + low recurring cost. There is enough consumer demand for both models that options exist, but j
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And both models can make sense to a buyer. I think I do about 98% of my printing on a b+w laser printer with low page costs. Occasionally I have something to print out something in color, typically for the kids. It makes sense to buy a color printer with low up-front costs for such rare use.
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We'll get over it when the human brain starts being rational (read never).
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In the video interview, they say that it's standard ABS and PLA filament. So while it's in cartridges that might be OK, as long as they don't try to lock people in. That is, if you can buy your own supplies from competing vendors and use them, that's what matters. At $28 per 600g, that's pretty expensive - it works out to $47/kg, which is quite high.
So overall I'd say that if they really can sell a reliable printer that size for $500 that's an awesome deal. And the fact that they're also doing a lame copy o
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Yeah, I know....
(And this is precisely why the Libertarian free-market ideal doesn't work, because consumers are idiots that break the free market process every time.)
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So without the government stepping in and telling manufacturers how much they're allowed to charge for their products, consumers will spend more than YOU believe they should?
That really does embody the progressive mindset. People are stupid, and they need your "vast intelligence" to get through life. All they need to do is put you in power and you'll lead those sheep to greener pastures.
Brutal dictators throughout history have thought the same way.
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That's an impressive job of twisting what I said to confirm your own bias. I neither said nor even clearly implied what you claim.
What I did say is that consumers are (ignorant) idiots. What I implied in the process is that THEY NEED TO BE EDUCATED to avoid these sorts of bad choices that act against both their interest and those of other citizens and the market. Unfortunately, good luck trying to sufficiently educate the current typical crop of Homo sapiens to create a free market that actually works.
Not one link to the company in summary (Score:3, Insightful)
Nice going, "editor". You managed not to provide a single direct link to the company that makes the product you're talking about.
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Man, it really is "damned if you do, damned if you don't" around here. Someone else would have complained if they had, labeling it a Slashverstisement.
Oh I just checked. They did provide the link. It's a tricky one though. The link to the company, XYZprinting, is hard to find. Check back in the summary and look for the underlined word "XYZprinting". Click that and you should go to the company website. I know, its weird, but there you have it.
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Why are 3D printers so exciting? (Score:4, Interesting)
From the latimes article:
Even though 3D printing is all the rage at the Consumer Electronics Show, many people outside the industry are still puzzled by all the fuss. "Explain 3D printers to me. Why are they useful?" one non-techie friend of mine tweeted me this week, after I posted a picture of a 3D printer at the show.
The show is called the *consumer* electronics show, not the *producer* electronics show. Most people are not makers, so they won't be excited about a technology that lets them make something. Even if people want something, a 3D printer requires that you know how to design that item.
When someone invents a 3D designer, where you can say "Build me a thing that..." then you might get the consumers excited.
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You've never heard of 3D scanners, I guess? Or open-sourced downloadable 3D files?
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I most certainly have! [thingiverse.com]
I see that you are on the cusp of making a point though. Go ahead and make it, since it might be s a valid one. Do you think that these technologies will make consumers interested in 3D printing?
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When they're made more like appliances that don't require education, yes. That applianc-ization doesn't have to include proprietary consumables, though.
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So what would the consumer use the 3D printer for? You gave 2 examples: copying objects with a 3D scanner, and downloading objects off the internet.
I'm not sure how useful the first is for the consumer. Presuming that a 3D scanner will only ever be able to copy static objects, nothing with moving parts. So they could copy parts, perhaps to fix things. EZ drywall repair maybe? Fix that broken picture frame, coat hanger, or curtain rod? Well... assuming it isn't so broken that the copy won't be broken t
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There's this:
https://medium.com/the-magazin... [medium.com]
One of the libraries in my county acquired one last year.
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Most people are not authors or graphics designers, yet nearly everyone with a computer has a need for a traditional 2D paper-and-ink printer. There is already a large library of downloadable 3D printable content, and if 3D printing becomes mainstream there will surely be 3D modeling software made along the lines of Word or Paint that is easy to use and good enough for Joe Homeowner to make that plastic widget he needs for that DIY project rather than going to the hardware store, or to make themed decoration
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Not everybody who counts is a slashdot geek. My in-laws regularly print off crosswords from the internet so they can do them wherever, and still routinely print off directions from google maps. My parents who are incredibly tech savvy often print off emails and such for my elderly grandmother who will go to her grave having never owned anything with a general purpose CPU in it. This Christmas, we printed nice "to/from" labels for all of the Christmas presents we gave. Yes, the necessity of a 2D printer is d
Re:Why are 3D printers so exciting? (Score:4, Funny)
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Re:Why are 3D printers so exciting? (Score:5, Funny)
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So a traditional 2D printer manufacturer shouldn't go to CES either then? I mean, people who would use such a thing would be producing, not consuming.
And besides, a 2D printer requires that you know how to design that print out too.
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So a traditional 2D printer manufacturer shouldn't go to CES either then? I mean, people who would use such a thing would be producing, not consuming.
touché! Were there any 2D printers there? I didn't think that kind of thing would be show-offy enough.
And besides, a 2D printer requires that you know how to design that print out too.
Yes, but the 2D design is much easier. I find that anyone can learn how to design a useful 2D object, and has cause to do so. Hence the signs/banners example. 3D objects are a whole other dimension, pun intended. I suppose, if and when the day comes that 3D design software is as easy to use as 2D design software today, then that would change the outlook. I'm not sure that is possible though. Ti
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I have no idea if there were any 2D printers there. I'd be surprise if someone didn't have something there. But the point still remains that you can be a producer as well as a consumer simultaneously.
With Thingverse and similar sites, there are already tons of items to print, or starting points to tweak to suit your needs. Or 3d scanners. Or if you can't find what you're looking for, SketchUp isn't THAT hard to learn to start using. Yes there is a learning curve. But there's a learning curve to any sof
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People are Makers (Score:3)
Most people are not makers
I challenge that assertion.
Just look at the size of the scrapbooking industry, or hobby stores in general.
Or cooking classes and cookbooks.
Most people ARE makers. Most people like creating things. There's no reason to think that devices that can produce small useful things for a myriad of hobbies will not be accepted by a huge range of people.
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It's funny because you point out that 2D printers are dying, which I notice too. Long ago: "Print Shop" was the killer app for a PC. Everyone wanted a computer + a dot matrix printer so they could maker banners and signs. I don't see people doing that today. Or maybe that still exists in the elementary school - middle school market that I don't see as much any more?
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It's funny because you point out that 2D printers are dying, which I notice too. Long ago: "Print Shop" was the killer app for a PC. Everyone wanted a computer + a dot matrix printer so they could maker banners and signs. I don't see people doing that today. Or maybe that still exists in the elementary school - middle school market that I don't see as much any more?
I think that the reason you don't see it happening today is because the most prominent printing standard today, inket, tends to use very expensive consumables, and a price-conscious consumer is not likely to want to waste a lot of money printing frivolous things. Printing on a dot matrix printer was cheap in comparison... probably more than an order of magnitude cheaper, even in today's dollars.
I'd say the big reason is because dot-matrix print paper easily lent itself to large banners and signs whereas today's printers (where the paper is all unattached to the other sheets) need a lot of tape and extra work to make banners.
Shoes? (Score:5, Insightful)
In the future, users may be able to print shoes that are tailored to the exact size of their feet, among many possibilities.
Have they looked at the different materials that go into shoes these days? The different parts need to have different qualities. The sole needs to be grippy. The uppers need to be flexible and porous. The insole needs to be cushioning yet supportive. This is done today by using many different materials. Sorry but materials that come out of thermal printers don't have all those qualities and generally don't hold up under the stress shoe are put through. Let's try to be realistic about what this technology can do.
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There is an exception to every rule.
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Yes they can but they are still restricted to three kinds/colors of photopolymer, Sure one can use two of those materials to combine into a colored hard shell and the other to handle the soft inner lining. What about the sole which would be a third material so there goes the colors. What about the microfiber liner? Take a look at the average running shoe and you will find more than three different materials and many of them probably can not be replicated using photopolymer.
As with most 3D printing hype the
I looked at it @ CES (Score:4, Insightful)
The overall construction was in line with a cheap 2D printer. The rails where thin, the structure in general seemed to be flimsy in comparison to the other 3D printers that were there. The proprietary print medium and the cheap-ish construction were enough to put me off and I was ready and willing to buy.
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http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/14/01/27/130232/499-3-d-printer-drew-plenty-of-attention-at-ces-video#
3-D printing. Pffft! (Score:2)
Who cares about 3-D printing? Come get me when they have 4-d printing!
Re:3-D printing. Pffft! (Score:5, Funny)
"Due to miscalibration of the 4th axis, your object was printed 255 years ago."
Re:3-D printing. Pffft! (Score:4, Funny)
No, not again. I... why does it say time jam when there is no time jam? I swear to God, one of these days, I just kick this piece of shit out the window.
Re:3-D printing. Pffft! (Score:5, Funny)
PC LOAD CHRONOTONS? What the fuck does that mean?
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"Due to miscalibration of the 4th axis, your object was printed 255 years ago."
Be grateful that the programmer declared that variable as char and not int, then your object could have been printed 65535 years ago.
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The MakiBox LT (PLA only) is 200$.
Am I missing something here? (Score:2)
Nobody seems to know what to do with a 3D printer (Score:2)
From the article "Gary Shu, XYZprinting's market development division senior manager, said the 3D printer can quickly create objects that users may need in their homes, such as a plastic cup or a plastic spoon.". I hope he comes up with a few better ideas than that.
Actually, a 3D printer would be useful to me for hobby projects like cosplay props, although probably a bit expensive. But around the house ? I look around for things completely made out of plastic that it would be practical to print if they brok
Ouch (Score:3)
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The market for 3D printers could be bigger than the CNC + Laser cutter + Vinyl cutter market combined. It's still a small fraction of the whole population, but the market is there.
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Re:Pass (Score:5, Informative)
just wait 6 month and the file format will be reversed engineered, same for the software.
According to their website the printer will accept STL files, which is an open, well documented, and widely supported industry standard format. Nearly any CAD software, including nearly all FOSS CAD programs, will export STL, in either compressed binary, or human readable ascii text.
Why? (Score:3)
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Loading a filament is easy. They'll have a market if their filament does not jam, the printer does not need calibration, and the cartige protects the filament from humidity.
Getting the second one (no calibration) right is a feat of engineering, but plausible. I'll
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I wonder what the layer thickness and X-Y resolution will be on the device will be. If I choose to print out a model similar to a class ring, will I get something where I can read a fine inscription on the inside, or will it be a glob of plastic that is sort of roundish.
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Normal (read cheap) steppers, drivers and pulley give 80 steps/mm or more (80 is the default RepRap value, 160 is getting more common). Printing precision depends almost exclusively on vibration control and hotend dimensions, none of which take part at the "resolution" number a manufacturer will give you.
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Do we have a 3d printing standard format yet?
PostScript 3D!!!!
Well actually PostScript is still a proprietary format.
So I guess we need PCL 6-3D!!!
If you saying something is in 3 Dimensions you need the explanation marks.
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This is the most counterproductive *coin propaganda I've yet seen. Well done!
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Nope, no bigotry here.
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True, for ABS.
If you use PLA, which the large majority of 3D printers do, it's not try. PLA is made from corn and is completely recyclable, either by re-grinding the plastic and re-extruding it, or by throwing it into a composting system where it decomposes.