



Record Wind Power Levels Trigger Energy Price Fall Across Europe 226
New submitter Forty Two Tenfold writes "Electricity prices across Europe dropped last month as mild temperatures, strong winds and stormy weather produced wind power records in Germany, France and the UK, according to data released by Platts. The price decline was more marked in Germany, where the average day-ahead baseload price in December fell 10% month over month to €35.71/MWh. On a daily basis, December was a month of extremes for Germany, with day-ahead base prices closing on December 10 and 11 at less than €60/MWh – the highest over-the-counter levels seen all year – only to fall to its lowest level December 24 to €0.50/MWh."
day base price consumer price (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Uh, that's a huge spread (Score:4, Informative)
Re:bfd (Score:5, Informative)
Not sure what you are thinking or if you're confused about units, etc. but ... /MWh which is close to the euro 35 ($47) price in TFA.
A quick search of US Wholesale prices shows a range of $31 to $71 for last year with highest prices in the Northeast. California was $42
So... price for this wind power is on par with US wholesale prices for all (coal, hydro, NG, etc.) averaged together... not really 3x.
Re:bfd (Score:5, Informative)
That's not just not exactly cheap, that's 3x the cost of power here in California
I think you need a new calculator. 35.71 euros is about $49. That is less than 5 cents/kWhr. Where in California are you getting a kWh for one third of a nickel?
Re:bfd (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Uh, that's a huge spread (Score:3, Informative)
On a daily basis, December was a month of extremes for Germany, with day-ahead base prices closing on December 10 and 11 at less than €60/MWh – the highest over-the-counter levels seen all year – only to fall to its lowest level December 24 to €0.50/MWh.
I have seen a nice bumper sticker before: Solar and wind are allright, but nuke's do it all night.
I agree with this sentiment. Shame Germany is phasing out nuclear [huffingtonpost.com] in favor of coal.
Re:Actually... negative prices! (Score:5, Informative)
Yes, the producers will pay you to use (more) electricity, happens when the cost of stopping and restarting a power-plant is high and demand is low.
http://www.epexspot.com/en/company-info/basics_of_the_power_market/negative_prices [epexspot.com]
This type of article never tells the whole story (Score:5, Informative)
We have a serious problem with subsidized renewable energy , as has Spain , or Germany ( but these are rich and in Portugal we live in a severe crisis).
When there is too much wind and hydro generation, prices in the energy market fall, BUT producers of renewable energy ( exluindo large hydro ) receive the same guaranteed rate ( feed-in tariff). As these producers have priority in the system all energy produced by them have to be bought, even if there is much cheaper energy in the market (gas, nuclear, oil, etc), even if it's free as has happened several times in the past (in Germany last year energy price at one day was negative) we have to buy the subsidized energy !
So actually what happens when there is too much wind and rain
To get an idea of prices paid to subsidized energy, here I leave these two pictures:
Annual change in average cost per type of energy: http://i.imgur.com/MFaPFRZ.png [imgur.com]
Annual changes in the average cost of energy subsidized vs. average market cost: http://i.imgur.com/OFn71pI.png [imgur.com]
Wholesale prices (Score:4, Informative)
These are wholesale prices. Once you add in VAT and the EU's subsidy taxes the actual retail prices are quite a bit higher.
The prices also vary quite a bit from country to country, and within countries.
http://energy.globaldata.com/media-center/press-releases/power-and-resources/europe-paying-more-for-electricity-than-us-states-globaldata-consultant-with-dramatic-differences-seen-between-countries [globaldata.com]
http://www.forbes.com/sites/williampentland/2013/10/27/berlins-ballooning-electricity-rates-become-highest-in-europe/ [forbes.com]
Re:bfd (Score:4, Informative)
Wind is a perfect candidate for base load.
I don't think you know what that word means...
Re:bfd (Score:4, Informative)
Both of your definitions are no "definitions". :D
They are layman interpretations of the true definition
Baseload: the amount of load you always feed into the grid, regardless of demand. That means even at night when your "demand" is only roughly 30% of the peak, you still feed the typical 40% "base load" into the grid, it is used to fill up pumped storages. Traditionally -- as you explain correctly -- done with cheap plants that run nearly at 100% *all the time*. With the side effect that those plants are also relatively slow in load following
There are two problem areas here:
- Using the first definition, a utility must be able to somehow satisfy maximum demand even if major variable supplies are unavailable.
That is wrong. As *base laod* is not used for *maxiumum demand* but only for far less then half of the *maximum*, the rest is done with load following and peak plants.
- Using the second definition, base load sources must be given priority lest the owners lose money. If utility owners routinely lose money, there will be no new utilities built, and possibly no maintenance of existing facilities. The problem is that most power sources are base load sources under this definition, thus everyone must have priority.
That is not true as well. As modern *base load* plants are similar quick in demand change and adaption as normal load following plants. In fact they are the same thing. It is only a planning decision which plants you use for base load tomorrow
If I know I will have enough wind tomorrow I will plan today how much of that wind power I consider base load.