Valve Announces Steam Controller 317
Today Valve unveiled their third and final announcement about living room gaming: a Steam controller. The company made the determination that existing gamepads simply weren't good enough for bringing PC games to the living room, so they made their own. Instead of having directional pads or thumb sticks, the Steam controller has two circular trackpads. The trackpads are also clickable, and Valve claims they provide much higher fidelity than any previous controller trackpad. Valve also eschewed the traditional 'rumble' feedback mechanism: "The Steam Controller is built around a new generation of super-precise haptic feedback, employing dual linear resonant actuators. These small, strong, weighted electro-magnets are attached to each of the dual trackpads. They are capable of delivering a wide range of force and vibration, allowing precise control over frequency, amplitude, and direction of movement." The center of the controller holds a clickable touchscreen. "When programmed by game developers using our API, the touch screen can work as a scrolling menu, a radial dial, provide secondary info like a map or use other custom input modes we haven't thought of yet." The design also breaks up the common diamond-shaped button layout, instead putting the A B X Y buttons at the corners of the touchscreen. The controller is designed to be hackable, and Valve will "make tools available that will enable users to participate in all aspects of the experience, from industrial design to electrical engineering." The controller is being beta tested concurrently with the Steam Machines they announced on Wednesday, so you can expect them to be on sale in 2014.
This actually looks really unusable (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't mind the trackpads, they could be alright. Maybe. But the fact that they expect you to alternately press buttons with either hand makes me feel like it could be hard to simultaneously move and act in a game.(This must be how lefties feel all the time)
Re:This actually looks really unusable (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't mind the trackpads, they could be alright. Maybe. But the fact that they expect you to alternately press buttons with either hand makes me feel like it could be hard to simultaneously move and act in a game.(This must be how lefties feel all the time)
Looking at the controller images, I'd be worried about triggering the touchpad while my hand is traveling to a button. WHy not put the buttons to the side?
The hackable nature of the controller sounds pretty cool, though and the haptic "speaker surface" like touchpads sound like they'd make some very awesome interfaces to play around with.
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The trackpad is clickable as well. touching it will bring up the selection screen briefly, but will not actually select something, for that you have to click.
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I'd be worried about triggering the touchpad while my hand is traveling to a button. WHy not put the buttons to the side?
There was a third-party Xbox controller called the FPS Master [amazon.com] that moved the face buttons to the grips of the controller to be manipulated by your middle and ring fingers. I wish we had seen something like it in the 360/PS3 generation but third-party controller support was largely shut down by the console manufacturers.
Re:This actually looks really unusable (Score:5, Informative)
If my experience with trackpad controls on phone games is anything to go by, I think it's a very bad idea. Incorporating a trackpad isn't necessarily a bad idea, but I can't stand the 'virtual D-pads' in mobile games. I'm constantly losing my 'center' and my thumbs slip out of the 'zero' position and I'll have to constantly reposition my thumbs back onto the center of the virtual D-pad. I've given up on many games (some of which are console ports) because I just can't stand that style of interface for directional movement.
I hope that I'm wrong, because I don't like how my xbox360 controller behaves on my computer and would love an alternative, but I have really strong reservations about their plan.
Re:This actually looks really unusable (Score:5, Insightful)
As opposed to the entirely smooth surface of your mobile, it looks like these have concentric ridges to solve just your problem; they give a tactile map of where the center is.
Re: This actually looks really unusable (Score:5, Insightful)
PC gamers aren't interested, they still need help from keyboard+mouse combinations to aid them in games that actually require precision to play well .
FTFY
Rob
Re:This actually looks really unusable (Score:5, Insightful)
If my experience with trackpad controls on phone games is anything to go by, I think it's a very bad idea.
where those phone games, "built around a new generation of super-precise haptic feedback, employing dual linear resonant actuators"?
no? then your experience is invalid.
honestly, i look at it this way. It might work. It might suck. either way, it's just a controller. i already have a system to use it with it. So, pending some horrible hands on reviews, i'll probably just pick one up and see for myself.
Re:This actually looks really unusable (Score:5, Insightful)
If my experience with trackpad controls on phone games is anything to go by, I think it's a very bad idea.
where those phone games, "built around a new generation of super-precise haptic feedback, employing dual linear resonant actuators"?
no? then your experience is invalid.
honestly, i look at it this way. It might work. It might suck. either way, it's just a controller. i already have a system to use it with it. So, pending some horrible hands on reviews, i'll probably just pick one up and see for myself.
Thank you! For finally bringing some perspective into this conversation.
The trend nowadays seems to be to first trash and ridicule anything new or innovative that anyone does. Or better still, list out the 10 reasons why something like this should never have been built in the first place. Jeez man, maybe we should just send some people over to work in the patent office - maybe, we can harness all the negativity to solve the "stupid patent" problem.
I have no clue if this controller will really work well in real life or not. But we can definitely say
- This is indeed very innovative. For the first time, someone truly thought out of the box and redesigned a game controller from the ground up, instead of just adding more haptics. Well.. the Wii controller notwithstanding.
- Love the attempt at how they've translated the "keyboard WASD + mouse" way of navigation in an FPS to a controller. Might *just* work. More power to you, Valve!
- Sure, it will have a fairly steep learning curve and people will complain like hell, but hey, so does any other control mechanism.
- For me, the litmus test will be playing Counter Strike using these controllers. Or maybe I'm getting old, but it still remains the benchmark game for me as far as an FPS is concerned.
P.S. Isn't Steam Engine a better name than Steam Box?
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Why would a product name need to be copyright-able?
You're thinking of trade marking, which does not require a unique name, just that you be unique in your area of sales/use (eg, Microsoft Windows/actual windows, Apple Computer/Apple Records, Ford Focus/the verb 'to focus', Steam (the gaming platform)/steam (gaseous water).
Re:This actually looks really unusable (Score:4, Informative)
They addressed that in question 2 of the FAQ - if you are happy with kb and mouse then you can continue to be so. The controller is supplemental, and their attempt to address the problem of PC gaming from the couch for those who don't want to sit at a desk or use a keyboard and mouse on their lap.
Re:This actually looks really unusable (Score:5, Interesting)
Important difference here is that you have tactile feedback on your thumbs position relative to the center.
Furthermore, since the surface is clickable, it can be customized to only register input upon click-in...like a D-pad! On the right side of the controller, the trackpad 4 quadrants can function as a replacement XYBA. Mappings which are traditionally assigned to clicking a stick in, can be moved to the back of the controller.
I am cautiously optimistic about the design of this controller, it all hinges upon the execution of these ideas and the quality of construction. If nothing else, it would be a better way to play FPS and RTS games since it replaces relative input (i.e stick position relative to cetner), with absolute input (the input starts and stops in sync with the start and stop of the thumb movement).
Instead of constant movement towards a target, and having to time the release of the stick with the time of interception, you move until matched with the target and then stop moving, akin to a mouse input. I have not seen trackpad sensitivity that can sufficiently replace mouse input, but Valve is claiming to have reached unprecedented levels of trackpad precision. Really can't judge the capability of this controller until real-world feedback comes in, but at least conceptually, I can see this being a step-up from the controller input already popularized on Xbox and PS platforms.
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Its not just sensitivity that makes a mouse superior - its the ability to stop or hold a fixed position.
Its very easy to put a cross hair in the expected path of a target with the mouse, and then wait for the target.
Its much much harder to do the same with a stick. With a thumb-trackpad... I'm not sure. it should be eaiser than a stick, but it still would require you to hold your thumb absolutely still. I imagine attempting to lift your thumb off the pad will be nearly impossible to do without moving the cu
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To that end, FPS game controller layouts typically don't map the fire button to the click-in of the right stick, precisely because you lose precision during click-in. Typically they use a non-thumb button like the right trigger for firing to avoid jostling the thumb position. They also require only very light pressure to trigger firing for the same reason.
Can't really imagine the click-in of the trackpad has having too wide a range of functionality, because of shifting during click-in. It might be limited t
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To that end, nearly all AAA shooters attempt to address fine aim control using "magnetic" crosshairs. Sensitivity on the sticks start with a base acceleration and top speed. But if you intersect a target with the crosshairs, a "soft-lock" engages where the crosshairs are partially dragged along in the general direction that the target moves, while sensitivity is temporarily reduced to allow for finer control of where you target. Crosshair sensitivity is commonly reduced when aiming-down-sights as well. In e
you'll stay centered (Score:2)
Look at the pictures in TFA; these aren't phone touchpads. You shouldn't be losing your center with these.
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I worry about high stress in video games and losing the whole location.
I can force down on a thumbstick during a car chase in GTA V and not worry about exact position, just push up and my fingers tell me I've reached the edge of motion because the stick stops moving. I don't think this will translate well at all....
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Yeah, this design is basically screaming "Please redesign all your games with our controller in mind!" X and Y on the left? If you're lucky you'll be able to remap the controls so shit you never use is on X and Y. Meanwhile the giant right trackpad will be mostly unused except for the few games with camera control on the right stick. Of the games I play with a controller (on both console and PC), right stick is used well by twinstick shooters and poorly by FPSes, and not at all by pretty much every single
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EA games have made a push (haven't played one in a few years so not sure if still doing this) for having more controls on the right stick. In the sports games you could flick in a direction for 'skill moves' that worked sort of well. The best use of it was in fight night for throwing punches, still probably the best boxing implementation I've ever played. They also had the Skate game that I never played, but made use of the right stick in the same way.
It might open up some new stuff, I could see some cool s
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Don't worry, you'll almost certainly be able to use your existing USB joypads with your Steam Machine. I'm glad Valve is trying something new with this controller. It probably will suck, but that's why Steam OS is configurable.
Re:This actually looks really unusable (Score:5, Funny)
This actually looks really unusable
Actually, it looks like speakers.
Re:This actually looks really unusable (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually, they can be speakers:
"This haptic capability provides a vital channel of information to the player - delivering in-game information about speed, boundaries, thresholds, textures, action confirmations, or any other events about which game designers want players to be aware. It is a higher-bandwidth haptic information channel than exists in any other consumer product that we know of.
As a parlour trick they can even play audio waveforms and function as speakers."
Re:This actually looks really unusable (Score:4, Insightful)
Lefty here. It's actually not so bad. I suspect that this is part of why the traditional layout spaces them similarly to the ends of a D-pad: you righties don't seem to have any trouble using that, and for us lefties, it's a similar story with the buttons.
But I am concerned with this splaying them out over the corners of the center touch screen. It could have some advantages in cases where you're expected to alternate between different buttons, but on the whole I can't see it being all that comfortable.
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See, but the way game controls are actually created, the dpad is for slow, methodical, or long-term tactical functions, and buttons are for "twitch" actions, like throwing a grenade or switching weapons or melee or whatever(note that none of these combine with requirements for precise looking that the right joystick is usually bound to).
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This is the main reason why mouse will likely reign supreme as a controller for foreseeable future. It enables you to transfer movements of entire hand into pixel accurate control inputs, while keeping your fingers free for buttons.
That and it functions on a surface, which means that your hand can rest on the surface while inputting the motion controls, so it's not nearly as tiring as it would be without that support.
As a result, I really doubt that it's even possible to make a controller to match a mouse k
Half life 3!!! (Score:4, Funny)
(starts crying)
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For those who don't see it 4+1+1+7+0 = 13
Re:Half life 3!!! (Score:5, Insightful)
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What wrong with a wireless keyboard and mouse? (Score:2, Interesting)
What wrong with a wireless keyboard and mouse? PC crowd does not want a console controller, why try to force it?
Re:What wrong with a wireless keyboard and mouse? (Score:5, Insightful)
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I do wonder about their target audience with all of this. Will they be able to crack into the market already owned by one of the consoles? Or are they hoping that by luring PC users over to this new model they'll get them to buy more games/hardware. Maybe they're following Amazon's route of just
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No problem! You can do that too!
What you have here is more choices.
Couch multiplayer (Score:4, Informative)
What wrong with a wireless keyboard and mouse?
KB+M is fine for single player. The problem comes when you have players 2, 3, and 4 visiting your home, and the APIs for accessing more than one mouse or more than one keyboard are far more obscure than the APIs for accessing more than one gamepad.
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They're not forcing it. Question 2 of the FAQ specifically states that they are not forcing it on you and you can keep the kb and mouse forever more.
What they're offering is an alternative, optional, additional, supplemental, controller for those who would prefer to use something other than a keyboard and mouse to game from the couch. If you want to use a keyboard and mouse, plug those into the Steam Machine (or your PC running steam hooked up to your TV) and carry on as normal.
Re:What wrong with a wireless keyboard and mouse? (Score:5, Funny)
wtf is a "phone book" ?
Ugh, cant they use a PS2/PS3 like controller? (Score:2)
Ugh, cant they use a PS2/PS3 like controller?
Its the best design i've come across. Great button configuration.
Re:Ugh, cant they use a PS2/PS3 like controller? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Ugh, cant they use a PS2/PS3 like controller? (Score:5, Insightful)
The idea is to try and create an experience that's close to the precision of a keyboard and mouse. No console controller offers this.
I'm actually really happy about this. This is the kind of innovation controllers have been needing for a very long time. I can pretty much guarantee that PS5 and, uh, Xbox Two? will employ controllers with this kind of tech.
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Are you kidding me? The Gamecube's controller is the best, and the Xbox's and the Dreamcast's controllers are fine too. Because they put the left analog stick in the right place, unlike the Playstation's godawful piece of shit of a controller.
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Because they put the left analog stick in the right place, unlike the Playstation's godawful piece of shit of a controller.
If you do nothing but play first-person shooters. There are a lot of games out there for which an analog stick is unnecessary, and the fact that it sticks so far up off the body of the controller makes it awkward to grip as a primary control mechanism. I much prefer the more flush D-pad of a DualShock controller for the types of games I play.
This new design looks interesting because it'll have the fluid control of an analogue stick without the awkward thumb positioning. While I really don't like placing
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Re:Ugh, cant they use a PS2/PS3 like controller? (Score:4)
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Not a Me Too product (Score:2)
Looking at the thing. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Looking at the thing. (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, obviously they do. It looks like they've taken a lot of care in getting rid of problems that, up till now, have plagued trackpads.
Why don't you at least give it a try before bellowing out your uninformed opinion about how much you dislike it?
I like what Steam is doing here (Score:5, Insightful)
I just hope it doesn't flop.
Innovation, modability (Score:2)
Every single gamepad these years is just plain and unimaginative or has barely usable gimmicks. Even the wiimotes are quite disappointing (laggish, unprecise). Analog buttons (not triggers these are fine) were the worst idea ever. Sixaxis motion detection is totally useless (no I wont tilt it left to tu
Tradtional joypad games? (Score:3)
How do I play Street Fighter or any traditional joypad game on that thing? I don't want to dismiss it out of hand, but I have serious doubts.
It might actually be a better joypad for console fps gaming, but unless I see good TF2 YTbers like shibby2142 praising the pad and pulling off rocket jumps while shovelling people with ease... I'll stick to kb+m.
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How do I play Street Fighter or any traditional joypad game on that thing? I don't want to dismiss it out of hand, but I have serious doubts.
I'm guessing a lot like on the SNES. The right trackpad should be able to detect the position of the finger when clicked, making it capable of simulating the traditional diamond pattern, and the shoulder buttons fulfill their usual role.
Re:Tradtional arcade fight stick games? (Score:2)
Not sure how this is going to work... (Score:3, Insightful)
Most of the games I've played by controller expect that you'll be using an XBox360 controller, so the game is set up expecting you to have the same types of controls and buttons in the same locations for two-handed operations. Drastically changing what and where everything is will only result in a controller that is unusable for most of the games it was created for.
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I'm sure Valve, who have been working on this for a year, haven't ever thought of that. Good catch.
Drone controller (Score:3)
Looks like the perfect controller for a backpack scouting drone.
Reminds me of the Intellivision controller (Score:3, Insightful)
Is Steam a viable alternative to a console? (Score:4, Interesting)
Argh... need sleep (Score:2)
Not sure how the heck my brain confused "Steam" with "Brain", obviously my own brain needs more sleep.
Apparently Valve is tired of ARG's (Score:3, Funny)
and has moved on to AAAAAARRRGHHS! That's the only way I can explain this week's perpetual 3-trollage.
Funny FAQ (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Today's Slashvertisement brought to you by... (Score:5, Insightful)
Anyway, isn't the implication with "slashvertizing" that someone has posted a story to their own product? Pretty sure this was posted out of genuine interest, not financial interest.
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Ads for a controller I wanted as soon as I saw the headline? Not annoying to me.
Still annoying to me. What is even more annoying is trying to figure out if I want I badly enough to ignore the fact that they advertised it at me.
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what are you frothing at the mouth about? Nobody said anything about bringing ads into your house via the controller in question. Try reading what people post before you go crazy next time. And refit that tinfoil while you're at it.
Re:Today's Slashvertisement brought to you by... (Score:5, Funny)
Leela: Didn't you have ads in the 21st century?"
Fry: Well sure, but not in our dreams. Only on TV and radio, and in magazines, and movies, and at ball games... and on buses and milk cartons and t-shirts, and bananas and written on the sky. But not in dreams, no siree.
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And a collective sigh from millions of gamers expect the big announcement would be "Half-Life 3"
Although - you know it's coming... and you know it will be a SteamOS exclusive (at least initially)...
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"Slashvertisement" is a wonderful word.
It's so much shorter than "I am an aggressively dishonest shitheel who refuses to make the simple distinction between advertising and reporting the the fact of a product announcement, and furthermore I am desperate to affect a demeanor of world-weary cynicism that I can never actually attain but have been conditioned to think is cool by the very people I want to think I'm rebelling against".
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Re:Today's Slashvertisement brought to you by... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:how about a keyboard and a mouse... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:how about a keyboard and a mouse... (Score:4, Insightful)
SteamOS is Linux based but I doubt it's going to be anything even Stallman would call GNU/Linux.
Everything I've seen makes this sound like it's more aimed at being a 'Console which runs PC games' than a normal computer. I'd expect it to load into a 'Big Picture' mode Steam client, and allow the user to launch their games and specially-modified applications from that which could well run as overlays like the existing Steam browser. Whether this machine even needs a command line is debatable, it shouldn't need GCC (I'd expect a fully binary-based OS) or a full-featured window and compositing desktop like Gnome.
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That really depends how far they take the "openness" - they seem to be hammering that message, so I'm going to assume it's at the very least going to be really easy to muck about with for those who want to.
This is Valve's broadside attack on Windows 8, and they seem to have gone all out for it.
If they can pull it off, it's going to be for console gaming what Android is to smartphones.
Re:Can't view it at work... (Score:5, Funny)
I have no idea what I'm talking about but here is my commentary.
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He has upper management written all over him.
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It's a step up, but yeah, I'll be using the mouse and keyboard for most shooters.
It would be ideal for me is if the steamboxes wirelessly communicated with the controller, and had a USB port in the side so I could plug my mouse into the controller and use it on my couch. That's several ifs though. And judging by
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Actually, a trackball works much better than a mouse as far as I am concerned. I hate using a mouse and can't understand how anyone would do so on purpose when trackballs are readily available.
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Please read the entire article. They state explicitly that the 300 beta versions that are gonna be sent out in a month will have 4 buttons instead of a touchscreen. The one that ships in 2014 will have a screen instead. The display on the touchscreen will be overlayed on the TV as well, so you don't have to look at the screen if you don't want to. There is no reason to assume the screen won't be in color, that technology is more than mature.
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Starcraft 2 would be pretty unplayable without a keyboard and mouse.
Maybe that's why it isn't on Steam.
Re:It incorporates some interesting concepts, but. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:It incorporates some interesting concepts, but. (Score:5, Funny)
Stop being factual. I was trying to make a point.
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Touch pads for joysticks just feels too much like the on screen joysticks people pretend are legitimate in mobile games. The issue on touch devices i
Re:DRM DRM DRM (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:DRM DRM DRM (Score:5, Insightful)
No, I refuse to mod up. It's not trolling, but it lacks a meaningful insight. Steam approaches the DRM question from a different direction by detaching game ownership from physical devices entirely.
When you buy a disk, and have an install limit, or an offline game, with an always online requirement, it turns the thing you think you have into something less valuable, and uses a legal fiction to justify it. Steam gives you a person license that you can use as part of an account independent of the machine on which its installed, with some flexibility regarding internet access and physical media. It's a license that actually acts like a license, you can use it freely, yourself. It treats the underlying legal fiction as actually representative of usage, rather than an excuse to limit you.
Re:DRM DRM DRM (Score:5, Insightful)
The big problem with Steam is the restriction on simultaneously using two games in one library. My wife likes to play too, and those games, under California law, are as much hers as they are mine, no matter what the Terms-of-Use say.
So I need to make a new account for every game I buy, and it's a major pain in the ass to manage.
Re:don't speak it (Score:4, Informative)
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Re:I can only say one thing... (Score:5, Insightful)
It has tons of buttons that don't require moving the hands at all.
I think you're completely wrong.
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It has tons of buttons that don't require moving the hands at all.
Assuming you only want to press one of them at a time.
That was the REAL achievement of the diamond configuration: the thumb could easily cover two buttons for when you needed to run AND jump.
At least these days you can usually remap them so you can use A and the underside button... assuming your hand wraps around the controller well enough to reach it.
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When people first saw the diamond on the NES control pad, they said "The controller design is awful. Why the fuck would you get rid of the traditional joystick?"
I personally have mixed feelings about the controller, but I'm at least willing to wait to give it a try before passing judgement on it.
Re:What's the point? (Score:5, Insightful)
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My car has 5 seats and a big trunk, why would I want a pick up truck with only 2 seats and nowhere for my other passengers?
Why would I want to drive around in one of those?