China Telco Replaces Cisco Devices Over Security Concerns 180
hackingbear writes "China Unicom, the country's second largest telecom operator, has replaced Cisco Systems routers in one of the country's most important backbone networks, citing security reasons [due to bugs and vulnerability.) The move came after a congressional report branded Huawei Technologies Co. Ltd. and ZTE Corp. security threats in the United States, citing bugs and vulnerability (rather than actual evidence of spying.) Surprising to us, up to now, Cisco occupies a large market share in China. It accounts for over a 70 percent share of China Telecom's 163 backbone network and over an 80 percent share of China Unicom's 169 backbone network. Let's wait to see who's the winner in this trade war disguised as national security."
Seems smart to me (Score:4, Insightful)
Why should the Chinese trust American equipment and vice versa. It's not like these are objects that get sent to another country never to be see again, they get put on networks, many available publicly.
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They certainly don't trust each other because the world is fucked up. And there's a fine line between "Security concerns" and plain old fashioned paranoia.
Re:Seems smart to me (Score:4, Funny)
How come you don't talk about the new and improved paranoia?
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rule #1
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Nobody knows. Everybody that tried to leak rule #1 died under mysterious circumstances.
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I know. But I ain't gonna leak it.
I still want to live.
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as long as it doesn't have rounded corners, its fine.
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Maybe because they're the ones *actually* building them??? A good bit of Cisco's hardware is built in China. (amung other places.)
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Why should the Chinese trust Chinese equipment, it's all copies of western stuff anyway!
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Why should the US trust US-designed equipment?. It's all manufactured in China anyway.
GrpA
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They shouldn't. The USA actually has a track record of putting backdoors into stuff. e.g. Lotus Notes. http://www.heise.de/tp/artikel/2/2898/1.html [heise.de]
By the way if you use Windows, as long as Microsoft signs something, your computer will trust it. And if you also use IE, you can delete all the CAs in your browser except the microsoft one, once you go to an https website, the required CA certs will be readded automagically as long as they have been signed by the Microsoft one (try it yourself on a test machine
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national insecurity (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not a trade war disguised as national security, it's national security disguised as a trade war. There's been no evidence presented of any backdoors. I'm quite certain that by now, many intelligence organizations have taken the chips apart and scanned them down and if they'd found anything there would have been a reaction. But there hasn't been -- it's just been hints, allegations, and rumor. It's disinformation, because there's no truth to go on, just more communist red-baiting. Not to say China doesn't have the resources, and doesn't have a long and inglorious history of electronic espionage... but so does France and nobody says a peep about them.
The United States isn't worried about China because it poses a military threat, or a "cyber" threat, or a terrorist threat... they're scared shitless because this country has clubbed and beaten its rivals over the head with economic policies and rules. China has us by the balls on rare earth metals, and most of our consumer electronics are made in Asia. If they decide to play economic hardball, we're going to lose. For a country that's grown complacent being able to pick up a phone and make every other country on the planet bend over and drop their pants to please the all-mighty american dollar... we're fucking terrified that there's a couple billion people about to industrialize and their economy is a jaugernaut. It won't be long before our military is the only thing remarkable about our country -- and it won't be sustainable without a solid economy to back it.
In 20 years, we're going to be facing the same situation the Soviet Union did: They died because they tried to maintain their military at the expense of their economy. This is a game we're going to lose, badly. That's why every trade sanction, disinformation campaign, and high profile story about places like FoxConn are desperately sought after by our military and economic leaders... if China manages to develop its economy much more, we're screwed.
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nonsense, the problems we had in 2008 were decades in the making.
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Please understand what you read before you dismiss it as "nonsense" and don't just say I'm wrong because you've seen my handle before.
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Everyone I know who does business in France says you can't trust the French government at all. They will take every opportunity to steal secrets to give to french companies. Its quite a well known thing. Just that its all old news so it doesn't make headlines.
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In France ... (Score:2)
... and this is the way we do it when we are in France ...
We leave "specially prepared documents" in our hotel rooms every time we went out for dinner, or meeting, or whatever.
Those "specially prepared documents" do that look very genuine, with all kinds of juicy "insider secrets", but in fact, we fill them with half-truths, and spice it up with stuffs that we know would create havocs for those who try duplicating the result.
Why we do so?
Because, the French intelligent agency are in every single hotel in Fr
Re:national insecurity (Score:5, Interesting)
Posting as AC, because this is one of my areas of research. And it is impossible to "tear down the chips" like you think it is. If you only alter the chips in 1 out of 400 routers... thats enough to provide a lot of access in and of itself. And this would be statistically very hard to find. (even if you dissolve the upper layers of the IC and then progressively examine the ICs)
Plus this isn't an issue of just the hardware alone, it has to do with the intractability of hardware AND software combinations. Perhaps the "backdoor"s only "activate" when they receive a certainly formatted UDP packet, etc...
It isn't easy to find things like this in IC circuits... despite how easy you would think it is...
This PROBABLY isn't as big an issue as the politicians are hyping it up (on both sides of the isle) BUT... just like how the US has ITAR (International Trafficking of Arms Regulations) about both weapons and "things that can help a foreign military... and POTENTIAL backdoor into a major USA ISP... is s potential security (and national security{in terms of infrastructure}) issue...
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... is s potential security (and national security{in terms of infrastructure}) issue
Although in reality the weakness is self-inflicted. If a government suspects that there are security holes and flaws in critical network security systems the stupidest, dumbest thing they could possibly do is to place critical national infrastructure on that network,
In that case, it's no use blaming some "foreign" company. The fault lies squarely at home with whoever made the decision to expose critical systems - and keeping them exposed. Once the security problems have been discovered, it is somewhere be
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Richard Stallman just keeps being right about these things. The source must be open. The hardware must be open. All governments and individuals must be able to inspect the platform because there is no way to actually "Trust" proprietary solutions.
Right now, Cisco routers run Unix at the core and distribution levels. Linux is mostly being used on the access layer (edge) of the network. It is time to add more enterprise features and hardware support to make Linux suitable at all levels. Open chip designs can be developed in each country. That is the only way to make sure that each country does not subvert the networks of the others.
This!!!
Re:national insecurity (Score:5, Interesting)
A few things...
I'm quite certain that by now, many intelligence organizations have taken the chips apart and scanned them down [for backdoors] and if they'd found anything there would have been a reaction.
You are grossly underestimating the complexity of modern microchips. What you're describing simply isn't feasible for any chip of even modest complexity. To hunt for backdoors, you would really need to look at the HDL files, and even then, it wouldn't be hard to hide something malicious in one of the hundreds of test modes.
China has us by the balls on rare earth metals, and most of our consumer electronics are made in Asia. If they decide to play economic hardball, we're going to lose.
You're also overestimating China's position. There are plenty of rare earth metals outside of China. It's actually to China's detriment that they're the chief supplier right now. As the supply of easily accessible minerals goes down, the value will go up -- the countries that wait the longest before ramping production will benefit the most. As for consumer electronics, what are they going to do? Stop making iPhones? If anything, that could be a short term boon to our economy, as we would suddenly have a motive to build a bunch of new factories and hire a bunch of workers. The increased cost of electronics would bug people for a while, but eventually they'd get used to it, and maybe even stop throwing away perfectly good phones every couple years. Meanwhile, what happens to China's economy when they cut out their largest trade partner?
Now, I agree that we spend waaay too much on our military, and but your attitude is way too negative. I get that there's a lot of anti-American propaganda on the internet, and it's easy to be taken in by it, but it's mostly baseless. China will develop for a while longer, their people will demand a fair wage, their quality of life will increase, and things will even back out. The Chinese people aren't a bunch of worker ants, emotionlessly toiling away for the good of the hive. The media likes to present them that way, just as they used to do with Japan, because it's scary, and scared people consume more news.
People often predict end times in their life time. I suspect it's because life can be dull and a part of them wants to live in "interesting times". The truth is much more banal. England's a perfect example of a "fallen" superpower, and they seem to be doing quite alright.
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You are grossly underestimating the complexity of modern microchips. What you're describing simply isn't feasible for any chip of even modest complexity. To hunt for backdoors, you would really need to look at the HDL files, and even then, it wouldn't be hard to hide something malicious in one of the hundreds of test modes.
No, I think you are grossly underestimating the resources of the global intelligence community.
You're also overestimating China's position. There are plenty of rare earth metals outside of China. It's actually to China's detriment that they're the chief supplier right now.
Really? Walk over to any electronics item in your house and flip it over. Made in ______ [fill in the blank]. And please explain to me how being the chief supplier of a thing is a problem for said supplier... because OPEC is the chief supplier of oil and nobody considers them disadvantaged.
Now, I agree that we spend waaay too much on our military, and but your attitude is way too negative. I get that there's a lot of anti-American propaganda on the internet, and it's easy to be taken in by it, but it's mostly baseless.
Why do people hate us Americans? New survey reveals it's because we're bombing them! Apparently, 100% of the respondents state
Re:national insecurity (Score:5, Insightful)
1. You're just going to have to trust me on this: it is not possible to find backdoors in microchips by "tearing them down". The CIA or NSA or whoever wouldn't even both to try. Instead, they would bribe some Chinese worker to tell them, or they would drop a flash drive with a virus in the parking lot and gain access to the company's emails, or something like that.
2. If we couldn't get electronics from China, we'd get them from Korea or Japan or Taiwan or Thailand or wherever. Or make them here, thanks to advances in automation. The reduction in supply would raise prices for a while, but we could adjust. Your OPEC analogy doesn't work because oil is a resource that is specific to certain areas. Labor is not.
3. Absolutely agree on why people hate the US, and I agree that our foreign policy shouldn't involve playing world cop (especially since we seem to be a dirty cop). But the fact that people's reasons for anger towards the US are valid does not mean that their predictions of America's fall will come true.
4. "The Chinese are worker ants." Now come on, that's just offensive. They're humans, just like everywhere else. People died building the Great Wall, they also died building the transcontinental railroad in the US. The US developed to the point that people weren't willing to put up with that anymore, and China will too.
5. "Britain's navy was once to be feared, ... [now] they're a mere shadow of what they once were". Wait, weren't you complaining about America's imperialism a couple paragraphs ago? What Britain "once was", was a tyrannical empire that killed countless people and destroyed nations all over the world to enrich themselves. Now they're a much calmer nation that provides good quality of life for their people, and doesn't go around hurting others. Why, exactly, would it be bad for America to follow in their footsteps?
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While I agree calling Brtian calm is a bit misleading. It's just not capable of what it once was. The abuse isn't gone.
Britan is hardly innocent. They do hurt people. Those people are in prisons. They can't vote. They don't get a say. They can't effect bad laws for which they were imprisoned (or may have been). Britan also has rejected the human rights the EU is trying to impose. They don't want to let the little people have a voice.
They participated like many other allies of the United States in recent 'wa
Re:national insecurity (Score:5, Interesting)
As for America's "proactive" foreign policy, no foreign army has set foot on American soil in anger since 1815.
The crew of the USS Arizona would like to have a word with you.
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Not to mention that the Japanese occupied the Aleutians during WWII.
There is also evidence that the Soviet Spetznaz had occasional training ops in Alaska.
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Was Texas a part of the US at that time? My memory says that it was still in "independant country".
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For which we promptly invaded Mexico during the Spanish-American War. And how many pieces of Mexican territory did we retain as a result? (Hint, lower half of California, bits of AZ, NM, and Texas.
*Mexican-American* War, and UPPER California, not Spanish-American War and Baja California. We had Texas when the then-pro-slavery Democrats accepted the Republic of Texas's request to be annexed. We got ALL of Nevada, and Utah (maybe more, I haven't checked) and almost all of AZ and NM, except what we later obtained in the Gadsden Purchase.
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You just pointed out the mental paradox of many chinese people. They always claim how indignantly they hate imperialism, however at the same time, that's also the goal they dream of.
There's no paradox involved and it's not not chinese specific. They just hate other's people imperialism.
Many of those that raise their voice for democracy and rights would instead demand a monthly tribute in virgins if they were dictators, absolute rulers, etc.
Excuse me, now I have to return to the design of my army of drones to take over the world. With such a large place to rule I think the tribute in virgins will have to be paid daily...
Re:national insecurity (Score:4, Funny)
Why do people hate us Americans? New survey reveals it's because we're bombing them! Apparently, 100% of the respondents stated they didn't like getting blown up.
That's a great .sig, right there.
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I have an ex-pat friend who lives in China, and in fact works for China Telecom. They're not emotionless, but they are worker ants. Look up how many people have died during the construction of, er... any major public works project. Ever. Even the Great Wall of China has bodies buried in it. No, really... sometimes people fell in, and they just poured clay in over them and kept going.
I agree with most of your post but the quote about is a pretty tough stretch. The regime and culture that build the 'Wall' are dust. It has little resemblance with the present. That and its not really uniquely Chinese, behavior. The same is true of the Hover Damn for example and that is much more closely connected with our present.
One thing that gets over looked often about China (especially by China itself as a matter of policy) is they are not and old nation. Even much of their culture was radically
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The increased cost of electronics would bug people for a while, but eventually they'd get used to it, and maybe even stop throwing away perfectly good phones every couple years.
amen!
I normally quote in italic but yours was worth bolding.
bugs me no end that people think they have every right to throw things away that are perfectly good and work just fine.
I 'still' use the nexus one. its buggy, google won't fix some showstopper bugs and I have not upgraded to CM or anything (its on my todo list) but I won't
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LOL. If China plays economic hardball, hundreds of millions lose their jobs overnight and then it's revolution time. If China gets uppity, close off the Strait of Malacca and no more petroleum for them. The problem is that you are fundamentally looking at it from the American point of view, while doomsaying.
Putting backdoors into critical electronic infrastructure is a no-brainer as far as it goes. China would be neglectful if it didn't do that. Now, to get the right idea about Huawei: imagine if the
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Reminds me of a little story about a power outage [wired.com], maybe [gizmodo.com].
We can't tell you what we know, but trust us to be in charge...
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The US because of its electoral Olympics is in better shape to deal with any social disorder. It's entertainment good enough to divert the peoples attention from the system's real problems. No need for the large-scale supression of protests.
Even if it has the trade surplus, China cannot politically afford an Iraq or even Afghanistan-scale war at the moment without triggering social unrest that dwarfs the Cultural Revolution. The gap between richest and poorest there is larger than it's ever been in the US o
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Why is it that the French always get not blamed by Americans? That's so unfair. Did you know that the Germans never get not blamed about their industrial spying? It's very frustrating, as Germany is quite good at it. But no, it's like you mustn't mention the spying. You know, Germans are proud people too, and they should get their turn not being blamed every once in a while.
Now the British, they're amateurs in industrial spying. Refusing to not blame
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It's very frustrating, as Germany is quite good at it. But no, it's like you mustn't mention the spying. You know, Germans are proud people too, and they should get their turn not being blamed every once in a while.
Germans are also very good at starting world wars.
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Why is it that the French always get not blamed by Americans? ...
Perhaps Americans aren't interested in espionage over arts, croissants and making love. For anything else French espionage is irrelevant.
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Why is it that the French always get not blamed by Americans? That's so unfair.
Also untrue. The thing is that everyone knows that the French always act French, and everybody has decided to just accept it. As long as one DOES accept the French behavior and plan around that, they can be useful quasi-allies. Just don't think of them like they were British, Israeli, or even Germans.
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It's not a trade war disguised as national security, it's national security disguised as a trade war. There's been no evidence presented of any backdoors. I'm quite certain that by now, many intelligence organizations have taken the chips apart and scanned them down and if they'd found anything there would have been a reaction.
I wish you were right. [information-age.com]
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If I understand correctly, "rare earths" aren't rare at all. It's just that they're hard to refine, because they're chemically quite similar to each other. So "good ores" are rare, because most ores are expensive to refine. But there isn't a real shortage. (OTOH, if we need to turn to low grade ores, expect the price to jump by at least an order of magnitude.)
Still, my knowledge on this is decades old. So maybe I'm wrong. But I'd need a good reason to change my mind, and an article in the popular pres
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They are also fairly rare in useful concentrations. Just not unique to China (ever notice how many are named after places in Sweden?), Africa, or anywhere else. If the stream of Chinese rare earth minerals decreases to the point that the price really rises, somewhere else will start producing. Much like with oil, where the Organization of Petroleum Exporting States has only 40% of the world market, anymore.
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most of our consumer electronics are made in Asia. If they decide to play economic hardball, we're going to lose
If the US cuts off trade with China, we may have a tough time getting TV sets (we'd have to get them from South Korea). China will lose tens of millions of jobs.
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Which would matter if wars were still fought with muskets. Fortunately, they're not.
Besides, the American and Chinese economies are way too interdependent for the two to ever go to war, at least for the foreseeable future.
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Google Lynas
Wooohooo !
That's a can of worm right there !!!!
Smart on their part (Score:2)
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Only they DO control it.
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Bullshit, it has nothing to do with infrastructure, but MONEY.
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Cisco is no longer what is used to be (Score:1)
Cisco is the Microsoft of the networking world - the household name that's failing to let go of the past and embrace the future. Their saving grace is that Juniper doesn't have a Steve Jobs figure. Nevertheless, anyone switching away from Cisco shouldn't be viewed as a political choice, but rather a rational choice.
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Besides, if China ever wants to return to Cisco, their data and settings will still be stored in the cloud [slashdot.org]!
Not surprising at all (Score:1)
"Surprising to us, up to now, Cisco occupies a large market share in China. It accounts for over a 70 percent share of China Telecom's 163 backbone network and over an 80 percent share of China Unicom's 169 backbone network."
Not at all... you think they built that snazzy internet firewall and surveillance system with home grown tech? Hell no! They've been buying the best equipment and services from U.S. companies for a long time:
http://wraltechwire.com/business/tech_wire/opinion/blogpost/1166609/
Better Spyware for Citizen Control (Score:1)
Art of War: "To increase Central Family power, take advantage of all situations to increase surveillance." "Any excuse will work, even trade war."
A trade war with whom? (Score:5, Insightful)
Let's wait to see who's the winner in this trade war disguised as national security."
A trade with whom? Both companies' equipment is made in China. Cisco just sells their stuff.
As for paranoia, the US should be paranoid about Cisco stuff be made in China. It certainly gives me the willies. As does the fact that our medicine and vitamins are made over there as well. But that has had a good affect on me, I guess, as I am eating more local grown foods and staying away from processed foods. Except for Heath bars. Can't resist those.
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Both companies' equipment is made in China. Cisco just sells their stuff.
Uhm my ASA 5505 says Made In Mexcio.
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assembled in mexico with parts sourced from various asian countries.
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Re:A trade war with whom? (Score:4, Interesting)
Don't worry, the generation after you won't share the same sentiment. Each successive generation have seen larger and larger portions of the world as their "empathy circle". People identifying themselves by country is just a few generations old; before that people identified themselves more by the city or province they were from and before that a clan they belonged to. The future generations will see the a Chinese as just another person living their lives and trying to generally make things better. They certainly won't get willies imagining them as enemies fervently trying to take something away from you.
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And your priority with the oncoming East Coast weather holocaust is to make first posts on /. bemoaning submitters not making every story about weather or the Middle East?
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And your priority with the oncoming East Coast weather holocaust is to make first posts on /.
Still better than some Facebook status updates. "Wow, I'm flying inside a hurricane!" And I see vividly the tweets as well: "#hurricane LOL WTF where's my roof?" :D
Re:NSA cares (Score:2)
It's pretty hard getting the right firmware installed by Chinese designers.
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get your head screwed on, what's your problem?
1. yes hurricanes hit New York regularly. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_York_hurricanes [wikipedia.org]
2. The U.S. economy grew 2% during last quarter, quit your whining.
3. What war in middle east? just some congerssional actions against insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan, and some civil riots in syria, etc.
Re:Who Cares? (Score:4, Funny)
I'm pretty sure the fries I just got at McDonalds were about 3 fries short. Whether by weight or by count, I'm not sure, but if you extrapolate, it probably constitutes a massive fraud.
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The storm will peter out, the global financial system will not collapse, and minor wars in the Middle East have been going on for literally thousands of years with nothing of value lost.
Nothing new or particularly interesting going on.
Re:Who Cares? (Score:5, Funny)
Yeah, where's the fucking storm tracker I came here to see? I'm hoping that Sandy blows NYC off the map, causes some butterfly to fart in turn creating sister storms to destroy China, the middle east and Tulsa. I fucking hate Tulsa.
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I would say that this type of article is exactly the type of content that Slashdot should be reporting... it involves one of the largest network infrastructure providers losing a significant part of what would probably be their largest market (if not now, then at least over the next decade)
And why should a tech news site care about the weather or problems borne out of greed and prejudice like the situation with the financial system or the unrest in the middle east?!
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Yeah, but then we will all have to start from zero.
How are your skills for a 1790 environment?
Lot of well educated folks right here will only be good for physical labor.
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Lot of well educated folks right here will only be good for physical labor.
That's a good thing since there will be lots of need for physical labor.
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How are your skills for a 1790 environment?
Upgradeable [villageearth.org], if you don't mind.
You should care (Score:5, Insightful)
We can only hope that the global financial system collapses. Maybe then, it can be rebuilt into something that actually works.
Hope you enjoy starving/freezing to death. If you manage to hoard enough canned food and heating oil to survive, enjoy being beaten to death by thieves.
In the meantime, a drastically reduced worldwide population can enjoy its "new global financial system" - i.e. - a "king" or "lord" (the heartless guy with the most weapons) tells you what you are allowed to use for money, what you are allowed to buy, how much of it you can buy, etc. And of course, you can kiss industry and manufacturing goodbye since there will be no capital investment and no methods of distribution - so your shopping choices will be, shall we say, very limited. Talk to a North Korean refugee when you get a chance - they'll tell you how much fun the new "financial system" will be.
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If you manage to hoard enough canned food and heating oil to survive, enjoy being beaten to death by thieves.
No worries, man. I've got an assault and a 2nd degree burglary conviction on my sheet, so I'll be the thief beating you for your cans of Wolf Brand Chili (love that shit) when the Great Meltdown comes...
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no, the really high end high traffic routers run proprietary algorithms. iptables won't scale to continental size, sorry.
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Pretty sure that the Chinese know how to make just as good a router as Americans. Heck, they've copied from Americans in the beginning and they are fully capable of advancing the state-of-the-art by themselves now.
FTFY
Re:In other news 2 years later... (Score:5, Insightful)
You didn't FTFY. American companies willingly taught the Chinese how to build high-tech. They shipped thousands of manufacturing jobs to Asia so that they could save a buck or two. The Chinese did more than just copy; they learned.
I'm not saying there wasn't *any* corporate espionage (on both sides, BTW). But the effects on the American economy of spying pales in comparison to the effects wrought by the gutting of America's manufacturing abilities.
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You didn't FTFY. American companies willingly taught the Chinese how to build high-tech. They shipped thousands of manufacturing jobs to Asia so that they could save a buck or two. The Chinese did more than just copy; they learned.
I'm not saying there wasn't *any* corporate espionage (on both sides, BTW). But the effects on the American economy of spying pales in comparison to the effects wrought by the gutting of America's manufacturing abilities.
Wish I had mod points, AC.
Re:In other news 2 years later... (Score:5, Interesting)
It is interesting how easily people forget.
Back in the 1950s and 1960s, Japan was the one copying, making knockouts and whatnot. But what happened is exactly what you described: they learned. And that is exactly what is happening to China right now.
Re:In other news 2 years later... (Score:5, Insightful)
Just because China and Japan share some similarities does not mean they will keep increasing their similarity. The world is at a different stage now than when Japan was starting out. Power was manufacturing then but now it's information and knowledge. It was about making stuff back then but now it's about creating stuff. The modern environment may not take China where Japan went.
On one side, when China is sufficiently ahead technologically, China may decide not to be the factory of the world and dedicate millions of people and billions of yuan to research into curing cancer, solving clean energy problems and so on and generally making the lives better instead chasing consumerism. The Chinese authorities have to make things better for the population every year for everyone to be quiet and maybe everyone will have quality of life above the west European countries eventually because of this.
Or they may the big Japan producing gizmos for the world, slowly producing mega-corporations.
Or they may crash and burn.
There is a lot of murmur that capitalism has served well in the manufacturing phase of our human history but might not be best suited for post-manufacturing economies. Sitting around waiting for someone somewhere to make some breakthrough and creating industries out of it might not be the best way forward. Maybe national and global push towards solving the world's problems might be the way instead of hoping the invisible hand fixes it. Maybe a system like China where large central decisions are made and pseudo-capitalism creates efficiencies in those central pushes is the best way forward, or maybe the old communist ugliness will rear it's ugly head and create massive inefficiencies. I guess we have to wait and see where the world is headed and in that frame where China will be.
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You make a very compelling argument. Thank you. It is nice seeing intelligent posts here. All to rare, unfortunately.
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Agreed, a very intelligent post right there. I think China will slowly rise because they were destined to be a world power. They were a very powerful country when Japan and Korea were still backward civilizations. Only thru their defeat in the 1860s and what they call the century of humiliation is what I believe kept China down. Now that their political system is stable again and managed to unify the country, they will only keep rising. Some of those cloners making electronics are becoming wiser and creatin
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And I have a problem with your stupidity, if you really think I was making a race related comment, instead of a historical one totally unrelated to race, relating only to technological copying, learning and innovation.
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Being a little sensitive aren't we? I suppose you think the Chinese belong in a maruta factory or something?!
Clearly he was referring to the fact that only a few decades ago it was Japan, not China that was known for its cheap low quality electronics... in time China will advance and some other so called "third world" nation will take their place as the low cost / quality source.
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Don't waste your time replying to him, he is nothing but a stupid troll.
And yes, that is exactly what I meant. Not only that, but I believe in a few decades (if not sooner) China will be known as the creative and technological country, where the good products come from.
As I said, Japanese products were considered crappy knockoffs, with extremely low quality. Then, after a couple decades, they were the producers of great products and technologies. "Made in Japan" started meaning high quality. Even today, the
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Interestingly, Japan didn't continue on the trajectory toward world domination, and it turned out reasonably well for both them and the US. We'll see how China plays out. I'm sure there are a lot of other countries that would like to get a chance to follow suit.
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My son is half Chinese.
Racism? I have been living in East Asia. The culture of the middle class and higher is much more focused on education, getting in to the right school, work for the right companies, and so on. This is simmilar in China, Singapore, Taiwan, South Korea, and Japan.
The cultures of those countries has a lot in common. It is not racist to say so. The Japanese and the Chinese DNA are more or less the same: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongoloid_race#Genetic_research
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Just like every other country copies every other country. Look at any modern car and it will contain ideas invented by other companies and licensed, parts made by other companies and so forth.
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Have you missed all the posts detailing where Cisco is built?