The ThinkPad Goes Ultrabook — ThinkPad X1 Carbon Tested 278
MojoKid writes "The venerable Lenovo ThinkPad, with its little red TrackPoint nub, has gone the way of the Ultrabook. If there's one small dig ThinkPads have taken with regularity over the years, it's that though there's a ton of quality and substance built into these machines, style was not a hallmark of the brand. The all new ThinkPad X1 Carbon could very well change the utilitarian stereotype of Lenovo's business-backed line-up, however. As the name suggests, the ThinkPad X1 Carbon is built from carbon fiber material throughout its chassis and internal rollcage. Its 14-inch display drives a native resolution of 1600x900, and its keyboard, arguably one of the nicest features of the ThinkPad line, is backlit and even more refined with contoured key caps. Battery life hits a max of about six hours on a full charge, and the machine weighs in at 3lbs and .31-inches at it thinnest dimension."
Thinkpads have their OWN style. (Score:5, Insightful)
Many customers, self included, prefer it.
Re:Thinkpads have their OWN style. (Score:4, Informative)
Style - distinctive look
Re: (Score:2)
The style of the think pad is akin to the following business attire. Black Pants, White Shirt, Black Jacket, the Tie is the different model you choose. It isn't meant to stand out in a crowd saying HEY LOOK AT ME! See How Cool I am. But more of I am part of a team, stop starting at my computer and lets discuss the issues at hand.
ThinkPads are very popular in Albany, NY we had some consultants come in, and they said they felt out of place because of their shiny flashy Dells, because everyone else just has
Re: (Score:3)
Hmm I wonder what those consultants would think of my Thinkpad X60T covered with Debian, GitHUB, Ruby and "meat is murder" stickers :-D
Apple Thinkpad (Score:2)
With apologies: No 7-row keyboard. No docking connector. Lame. :)
Re: (Score:2)
Always loved the thinkpad style (Score:2)
still do, though its a bit pricey, smaller screen same cpu, half the ram and over twice the price of my shiny new dell that work bought me .... dunno
Re: (Score:3)
Soldered-in RAM and non-user-serviceable battery aren't impressive either.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
That is nice. I a saw a review linked in a different post where they complained about the shiny 1366x768 screen.
I tried to buy a ThinkPad Edge last year, and had to give up because the latest models only came with extremely reflective 1366x768 screens. Let us hope Lenovo has learned the lesson then.
Re: (Score:2)
But it will probably last twice as long....
Re: (Score:2)
yea but I have 16, 20 25 year old laptops ... do I really care
Re:Always loved the thinkpad style (Score:5, Interesting)
The day I bought my first thinkpad was the day I stopped replacing broken laptops.
Re: (Score:2)
My Z61m, bought in 2007 and used for a couple of hours on a typical day since then, is now getting very rickety but still runs fine. I replaced the hinges once two years ago, and now they are getting dicey again. The keys are almost completely worn clean of any clue to the letters, and the little navigation bumps on f and j are long gone. The screen shows wear from five years of cleaning and general abuse. I replaced the fan a year ago and it has started to make noises again (possibly I just didn't get
A long line... (Score:3)
IBM has offered quite a few thin-and-light optical-drive-removed models over the years, albeit generally at a somewhat uncomfortable premium.
I have very fond memories of my Thinkpad 570 (stolen, alas) and the X series has more recently occupied the niche.
The really tragic thing is that Lenovo has been churning out assorted thin-and-lights without trackpoints! If you have to use a touchpad, you might as well just not bother.
Re: (Score:2)
The really tragic thing is that Lenovo has been churning out assorted thin-and-lights without trackpoints! If you have to use a touchpad, you might as well just not bother.
Those are probably their IdeaPads or other lines. AFAIK, even the ThinkPad EDGE has the red nub
not particularly excited... (Score:2)
I never got on with Thinkpad keyboards. The "Trackpoint" (I always called it the GHB Clitoris) got in the way.
Re: (Score:2)
me too, though I just pulled the rubber off and that solved the problem
Re:not particularly excited... (Score:5, Funny)
I just pulled the rubber off
Doing that, is what got Julian Assange into all that trouble . . .
Re:not particularly excited... (Score:5, Funny)
alledgedly
Re: (Score:2)
Generally touchpads are much worse if you type with your thumbs to the side or the touchpad is overly sensitive. We have an HP loaner where the touchpad is so sensitive that even hovering near the surface is detected. We loan it out with a mouse and every one who uses it reports turning off the touchpad and using the mouse.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
mine's got an off switch on the trackpad... kinda handy, that.
Re: (Score:2)
It's even better for coding because one's thumbs don't brush up on trackpad causing the mouse to fly away. I generally refuse to use any laptop that has a trackpad.
You can easily disable the trackpad if it's a problem. I can type faster than most and the trackpad has never been a problem for me... at least on my current laptop. Some laptops i've seen have a trackpad with no tactile borders and is much bigger, which I might find to be a problem, but if I did i'd just disable it.
But given the choice between a correctly sized keyboard and a trackpad i'd choose the keyboard.
Fingerprint readers are what I find a pain. Who in their right mind would but a fingerprint reader
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
um... Windows 7 Home Premium doesn't. Neither does OpenSuSE 11.4. Nor OSX86. Nor OS/2 Warp 4. Nor Ubuntu 10.04. Nor Windows xp SP3.
Have I missed something?
Re: (Score:2)
thanks for that Knuckles, I'll have to look into it again.
Re: (Score:2)
I would be looking at which way round you're dropping the laptop in; if you're causing the lid to flex then you're putting the laptop in the wrong way round. I tend out of habit to put it in with the base facing my back, with any paperwork I need to carry in a hardback folder like a Leverarch and have that sit against the lid for added protection.
Build quality not impressive anymore (Score:4, Interesting)
That was long ago, when IBM owned the brand. Lenovo kept the quality up to par for a while, but many people who've bought Thinkpads in the past couple years will attest that the quality isn't the best any longer. That they're going for styling now, just further suggests they're completely changing the brand, and it will no longer stand for quality and durability.
Re:Build quality not impressive anymore (Score:4, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
Who would you suggest has the best build quality now, then? If you say Apple I will beat you silly with a chassis fan because I want to be able to have children, but anything else I'm genuinely curious to hear.
Nobody you'd want to hear about, apparently.
Re: (Score:2)
Apple has made unreliable portable hardware all along. The original Thinkbooks were always failing, you could get broken ones cheap used always because they cost too much to repair. Let's talk about the GPUs snapping off the G3 ibooks when people pick them up with one hand, too.
Re: (Score:2)
It seems like you already know the answer, but your prejudice is getting in the way.
Re: (Score:3)
Jesus fucking Christ, is there any particular reason you decided to be a dickhead without provocation? Why is this fashionable on Slashdot?
You forgot to log in again!
D'oh!
"Without provocation" hah. You're funny.
Re:Build quality not impressive anymore (Score:4, Informative)
Panasonic have good build quality even in their business range and their Toughbooks are especially well-built. Not stylish though. Expect to pay for that quality though, 50-100% more than an Apple of similar hardware spec, but when was the last time you saw a laptop advertised as being resistant to disinfectant?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I wouldn't say they were any worse per-se, perhaps they just feel that way due to being even lighter and thinner than before. And you still get their excellent maintenance manuals that explain how to completely disassemble and replace every part of the laptop, complete with part codes so you can easily order the right replacement. There is a reason they use Thinkpads on the ISS.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Build quality not impressive anymore (Score:4, Informative)
Provided almost all T61(p) are about to die due to the problem with the nVidia chip, there is over 130 pages of complaints on the Lenovo forum on this sole subject and still active. Provided Lenovo picked the nVidia chip, it was up to them to resolve this issue to the satisfaction of their customers. They did really bad. They kept the replacement board unaffordable while the prices were dropping fast (over 1000$ for a replacement board in Canada from Lenovo when I checked less than 10 months ago). They never recalled all the laptops likely to fail, many laptops failed just after the warranty expiration and the few months after. At the very beginning, yes, nVidia is responsible, but before the customers Lenovo is responsible. It is to them to negociate contracts with their providers and get some kind of QA on the products they buy and resell in a laptop. I was a loyal customer starting with IBM Thinkpad, I was willing to pay more for the enterprise level quality. My last experience with Lenovo proves me wrong about this so called enterprise level quality and worst, with the desire of the company to maintain a top quality service.
Sorry, Lenovo, never again.
I prefer to buy a cheap laptop I can replace easily and use a real desktop at my office instead of a boosted laptop.
Comment removed (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
seen it before (Score:2)
I think the Samsung series 9 does the same...or maybe it was a Sony
Re: (Score:2)
Rather than moderate... (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
repeat after me: air is a thermal *insulator*
Not when it's moving, like when being pushed by a fan.
Re:Protruding lid edge (Score:4, Informative)
In the video it looks like the lid raises the laptop only when opened quite wide, at larger angles than would be possible on many similar devices. At "regular" angles the laptop sits on it's own feet and the lid moves freely, once you open it too much it will hit the desk and you need to slightly raise the laptop and let it sit on the lid.
Yet another ultra-proprietary power connector!!! (Score:3)
What the heck is wrong with these companies? Are they really getting so much revenue in replacement power supplies that they have to screw everybody and their dog in the process?
Not only you can't change the (non-removable) battery but you also can't easily use any existent "power pack" (like powergorilla, not that I recommend that one but it's easy to google for and see what I mean). You can't just grab a "generic" laptop power supply (the one that comes with multiple voltages and a bunch of rounded tips) from any shop if you forgot/lost yours.
Also you can't consolidate on chargers/use your existent one, you can't efficiently charge it from an appropriate DC power supply without going via the inefficient route inverter->original power supply.
It seems these devices are designed more for executives with more money than sense than for people who actually travel and need the advertised portability.
Re: (Score:2)
Did you miss the part about where the damn thing charges in 35 minutes to 85%?
Damn that's sexy. Proprietary adaptor or not.
Re:Yet another ultra-proprietary power connector!! (Score:4, Insightful)
No. A nicely proportioned beautiful woman is "sexy". Electronic gear is most certainly not and never will be.
I'm very sorry, but you are clearly new here.
Re: (Score:3)
I was surprised about the battery because the EU now mandates that they are recyclable, but it seems to be an unfortunately growing trend. Apparently if you can remove the battery for disposal, even destroying the laptop in the process, that is okay under the current rules.
Hopefully the EU will go a bit further and require user replaceable batteries. It's bad enough having to throw away a perfectly good electric toothbrush after two years because the battery is dead.
Thinkad regression (Score:2, Insightful)
So this new Thinkpad weighs the same as my X200, but has no Ethernet port (with a stupid adapter instead), no swappable/replaceable battery, soldered-on RAM, and a weird keyboard layout which puts the Home/End keys far away from the Page Up/Down keys.
If that's the new trend for Thinkpads, I'm afraid that after all these years with various X* models, I will I will have to look at other brands.
Re: (Score:3)
Brightness (Score:3)
From the article:
It might not be the brightest LCD in the lab at 300 nits but it's bright enough [...]
Actually, 300 nits is damn bright. They probably couldn't crank the brightness high enough or for some reason had a unit with a lower spec screen. Most current laptops at max brightness are in the 200 nits (cd/m^2) ballpark. Notebookcheck.net even has the lab and they indeed confirmed the manufacturer rating in their Lenovo X1 review [notebookcheck.net]:
Information
Gossen Mavo-Monitor
Maximum: 367 cd/m^2
Average: 330.9 cd/m^2
Brightness Distribution: 81 %
Center on Battery: 348 cd/m^2
Black: 2.8 cd/m^2
Contrast: 124:1
mmm black.... (Score:2)
I have a ThinkPad, they are very nice to use, and I'd buy the new one, but it comes with Windows....
I'll take modular design with lots of ports/slots! (Score:2)
Nope (Score:2)
Apart from being wedge-shaped (so they'll get their ass sued by Apple), the moment I looked at the video and saw the huge block of a power charger, it was clear that this isn't the portable Air-slayer that it might have been. I want something I can take away without having to lug half a ton of support equipment with me.
But the show-stopper is that vertical resolution. 900px is strictly for the brain-dead. Manufacturers think all anyone ever does is watch videos. Some of us need portable computers to do (gas
Wedge shaped it a functional feature (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Actually, the Apple design-patent regarding their ultrabook laptops is a drop shape, not a wedge shape, so Lenovo should be safe as long as they stick to the excellent Thinkpad tradition of sharp corners.
No space for RJ45 (Score:3)
The ThinkPad X1 Carbon is so thin actually, that a standard RJ45 port couldn't be squeezed into its side edge, so Lenovo includes a USB Ethernet dongle with the machine.
This is starting to be a wider issue, so perhaps a more robust solution is in order. Some tablets apparently have proprietary connectors, where RJ45 can be plugged with a passive adapter. Could we agree on a smaller standard for such an electrically identical Ethernet connector? Maybe while we are starting over, we could avoid earlier design mistakes, like the plastic tongue that breaks off easily.
Re: (Score:2)
A new industry standard would be one way to go, and probably the best.
Another solution is to license the XJACK-design [wikipedia.org].
It's a retractable RJ45-connector with a height of about 5mm.
Much better solution than idiotic adapters.
Re: (Score:2)
Another solution is to license the XJACK-design [wikipedia.org]. It's a retractable RJ45-connector with a height of about 5mm. Much better solution than idiotic adapters.
Good point, I now remember seeing those back in the day. But they do not look exactly robust to me. I can imagine these breaking off as users unplug the cable in a hurry, and shove the laptop in a case. Adapters can be a hassle, but at least they make it obvious that you still have something plugged in. (One of my professors used to do this with USB memory sticks plugged in; he now carries a short extension cable for these, as they have less leverage for breaking things.)
Re: (Score:2)
Why not just use thunderbolt? And for wires you just use a thunderbolt to ethernet adapter. Those can be made cheap. Thunderbolt is good for up to 10GB / sec (possibly more). It allows you to chain more than one device so you could have one port on the laptop server: mouse, keyboard, screen, ethernet... with a docking station.
That is essentially Apple's proposal.
1600x900 is *good*? (Score:2)
If they're attempting to compete with Apple, or other decent laptops, shouldn' they have at least a 1920 x 1080 display?
I'm typing this on a W500 with 1920x1080, so I know they have the technology. It's a high-end laptop, so the price difference isn't that significant. At least offer a good display as a $100 option.
not impressed with "thinnest dimension" metrics (Score:2)
FFS, I am only 0.3 inches at my thinnest dimension. And no, it's not where you're thinking.
Re:Terrible keyboard layout (Score:4, Informative)
I got a Thinkpad X230, which has the same keyboard layout and a very similar keyboard. The biggest problem is the odd placement of the Print Screen key. It is where the right click menu key should be. In addition, the keyboard is rather mushy without much travel. I am sure it is much better than a normal chiclet keyboard, but the layout is inexcusable. I really like the backlighting, and the trackpoint is, of course, excellent. While I agree that the keyboard is a draw, I think that the trackpoint is a big one too. At least they didn't ruin that yet.
Re:Terrible keyboard layout (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:3)
You can switch fn and left ctrl the keys in the BIOS on most Thinkpads. Sure, the keys would then be mislabeled, but if you always hit the wrong key anyway it wouldn't matter.
Re:Terrible keyboard layout (Score:5, Insightful)
Tip for other laptop designers (or designers of any product): figure out what your product is best known for, the good stuff, and when you're doing your redesign don't screw with that. What are the selling points for Thinkpads?
1. Solid, durable construction
2. A no-nonsense utilitarian aesthetic
3. Excellent keyboards that are comfortable to type on
If it has to be a little thicker to accommodate a good Thinkpad (TM) keyboard, that's not a drawback - that's a selling point.
Re: (Score:2)
This is the main thing I would change, as I prefer the PgUp, PgDn keys to be Home and End.
Re:Terrible keyboard layout (Score:4, Interesting)
You just inspired a thought - they could make it so the keys rise up slightly when the lid is opened, providing longer travel. In fact I would love to see a true shift-lock key again, that stays down when it's engaged. And a pony, of course.
Re: (Score:2)
The typical ThinkPad keyboard is actually very nice to type on. you really don't need to do that. I found the ThinkPad keyboard better to type on then most of the Mid/UpperMid-quality external keyboards out there. While not a Clicky Model M you get good response when the key is entered vs. just a squish. You get a nice little snap while you are typing... They keys are spread out where it is useful and has a good feel to them.
Re: (Score:2)
Actually, (and I say this as a long time Thinkpad user) the new keyboard is _better_ in terms of typing feel... harder backplate, nice travel, less flex. If it weren't for the layout, I might consider upgrading from my T520...
Thinkpad Back/Forward buttons (Score:3)
I'd rather have page up/page down there than the back/forward buttons that were there before - I've hit the back key and lost everything that I was typing into a webpage far too many times with those damn things.
I've done that a couple of times, including losing lengthy Slashdot response posts. I've been dealing with it by using the Lazarus plugin [getlazarus.com] (for Firefox, Chrome, and Safari), which allows me to retrieve lost form submissions.
Note: the plugin encrypts saved form data, but it might still be a problem for users with high security requirements.
Re: (Score:2)
They changed the keyboard layout.
It's different now, they moved page up/page down to the bottom right, and changed up the others that go in the top right corner.
For a laptop who's main appeal is the keyboard, I don't understand why they changed it into something different.
There, FTFY.
Re: (Score:2)
It's less like a desktop PC keyboard now. And that's sad.
Re: (Score:2)
No, the windows key has been there for a long time. The question is, how much did it cost them to run this thinly veiled press release disguised as an article on Slashdot?
Re:Shiny? (Score:5, Funny)
Can they make it look more like a MacBook Air and then I'll buy one?
They could, but that would mean, yet another lawsuit, which we certainly already have enough of . . .
Re:Shiny? (Score:5, Insightful)
Please, no. If I wanted a MacBook Air, I would get a MacBook Air; but I hate that style and love the more macho Thinkpad style.
I'm so glad it doesn't have a shiny screen too.
Re: (Score:2)
Why fixate on Apple products?
If anything, all of this "Ultrabook" nonsense just reminds me of Sony products from the turn of the century.
Re: (Score:3)
It is TOO shiny, please for the love of god, make one with a proper matte screen.
Re: (Score:2)
I for one welcome our new carbon fiber reinforced universal computing machines!
Re: (Score:2)
ThinkPads and Apple has two different target audience.
Apple targets consumers, while the ThinkPad is business oriented.
Apple changes it's style every few years. ThinkPads still haral back to its initial style about 20 years ago.
In many ways it is a testimate of the think pad style.
Matted black. When it isn't shiny you don't notice the scrapes and bangs over the years. Sharper angles allows for more technology to fit in a particular space. Tough material that allows it to stay together well without babying i
Re: (Score:3)
In many ways it is a testimate of the think pad style.
What is a testimate? A grumpy friend?
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
And it doesn't?!
Even netbooks from 2008 have LED backlit screen, possibly by now it isn't even worth mentioning.
Re:Shiny? (Score:4, Informative)
Of course it has an LED backlit screen - CCFL backlit screens haven't been sold in laptops for years.
Re: (Score:2)
It's an SSD so not even comparable.
Also if I recall correctly in 2000 I was a Compaq PC with a 4gb HDD. I think around 2001 I added a 30gb drive to it and that seemed big. 128gb would have been considered huge in 2000.
Re: (Score:2)
Ahhh... I what a beautiful verb to have missed... Wish /. had an edit button
Re: (Score:3)
Your doing pretty good with this Turing test thing though....
Re: (Score:2)
I don't care about SSD.
Plenty of people do.
In my opinion, 128gb or even 256gb is not sufficient.
There, FTFY. I've got a 60gb SSD (soon to be upgraded to 120gb, but mainly because the write speed on that one is 5x faster) which is perfectly sufficient for me.
It's a laptop (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I think the MacBook I bought in December 2008 has a 160 (or 120?) gb HDD. That's less than 4 years ago...
You may not care about having an SSD but I do. By far the biggest performance limitation on all my computers is disk read speed. Increasing read speed has a far bigger performance impact than adding more ram or more cores to the CPU. If you want mass storage buy an external USB drive. I think you can get a 1TB disk for around $100 these days. The disk you have the operating system on _should_ be an SSD i
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
In 2000 I bought a $4000 laptop with a 50g drive. It was a couple years after that you could get 128g.
But more importantly my hard drive is 450MB/sec in my laptop. In 2000 you would have been hard pressed to get a ram drive that fast. And 256g would have cost millions. The laptop hard drives coming out a speedwise comparable to the fastest raids from just a few years ago. That's huge improvement.
Now don't get me wrong I'd love to see hybrid drives really catch on, where you get almost the performance o
Re:Let me guess the price (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Comparing as close as possible specs, the 1.8GHz i5 with 128GB SSD and 4GB of RAM costs $1,199 for the MacBook Air and $1,499 for the ThinkPad. For the 2GHz i7, the MBA is $1,499, the ThinkPad is $1,849. However, the ThinkPad has a 14" screen instead of 13" (not sure if this is a pro or con in a portability-at-all-costs Ultrabook), integrated 3G (need a USB dongle for the MBA). The ThinkPad lacks Thunderbolt, so USB is the fastest peripheral interface. The ThinkPad is marginally larger in one dimension, marginally smaller in two more, so about the same volume and the weight difference between the two is under 0.1%. The ThinkPad comes with a 3-year warranty, but this costs extra for the MBA (unless you buy from the education store), which brings the cost quite a bit closer. The cost of upgrading to 8GB of RAM for the ThinkPad is not listed - it's not even clear that it's an option, which is a shame because that's something I'd be pretty sure to want.
You can look at the Lenovo site for upgrade pricing. Anyway, the real price for a ThinkPad is much lower than the list price - Lenovo usually has enormous coupons stackable with sales that are always running. I think the need for coupons is annoying, but if you're willing to jump through the hoops, the price for an X1C today is about $1100-1200. Also, the cost of an 8 GB RAM upgrade on the X1C is the cost of buying that RAM on Amazon (about $40) - the machine is meant to be user upgradeable. The same is
Re: (Score:2)
The FA refers to the ram being soldered on to the mobo, and says that you're stuck with whatever configuration you buy. Though some might be able to upgrade this configuration I would not call it user upgrade able.
Re:I'm switching to Mac after six ThinkPads (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)