Cherry MX Mechanical Keyboard Switches Compared 223
crookedvulture writes "Keyboards with mechanical key switches are enjoying a renaissance of sorts. They're prized by gamers, coders, and writers alike, and Cherry's MX switches are the most popular on newer models. There are MX blue, brown, black, and red switches, each with a different tactile feel and audible note. This comparison of four otherwise identical Rosewill keyboards details how each switch type feels and sounds, complete with audio recordings of the various colors in action. Recommended reading for anyone considering a mechanical keyboard or one of the Rosewills, which cost about $100. Looks like the removable USB cord on these particular models is prone to breakage."
geekhack.org is ultimate keyboard site (Score:3, Informative)
Sounds like an ad, but seriously I found the best advice there.
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Re:I bought one (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I bought one (Score:4, Funny)
I would have had first post but I couldn't see the page because my Model M keyboard is too loud.
Re:I bought one (Score:4, Informative)
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>>>I love typing on that thing. People know you're serious.
Reminds me of a line from a movie:
George Clooney: "Are you angry with your laptop?"
girl: "I type with purpose."
George:"Keep that up and you'll be typing with carpal tunnel."
I couldn't hear an IBM Type M keyboard even if I had one. I listen to radio or audiobooks while at work, so I just use whatever keyboard comes with my computer. It's pretty quiet.
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The point of the click is to provide tactile feedback, the auditory feedback is incidental. I'd still use mechanical keyswitches if I were deaf.
And while we're on the topic, you don't have to hit the keys hard to use a mechanical keyboard. You know exactly how hard you have to hit the keys to get them to activate because of the tactile feedback. And if you overshoot, there's a lot of travel and a gentle increase in resistance.
Compare a rubber dome keyboard. In order to activate the key switch, you *hav
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The Cherry MX Blue [deskthority.net] switches in the Rosewill keyboards is much lighter than the buckling spring in the IBM/Lexmark/Unicomp keyboards, while still providing tactile feedback and an audible click. They are much easier on the fingers than the Model M or most cheap rubber dome keyboards.
By the way, there are ways to dampen a buckling spring keyboard's sound. You can dampen the "clack" when bottoming out by installing O-rings around the shafts. You can also remove the ringing almost completely by installing a str
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Anon. Coward is obligated to stop stalking me everywhere I go. (Or at least post under your actual UserID.)
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It's a lurching zombie, damn it. Shambling is for scarecrows.
Re:I bought one (Score:5, Insightful)
Reading the review, it sounds like the Model M is still going to be superior.
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I'm typing on a Unicomp right now. It feels a little lighter than a classic M and there were a couple minor cosmetic issues (mainly with keycaps needing a slight trim) but it's still a solid keyboard and IMO a good buy for $79.
I've been considering buying one for home so that I can use the Super/Windows key now that more programs are using it, and eventually the PS/2 port is going away.
Re:I bought one (Score:5, Informative)
A real IBM M can be had for less. Real PS2 to USB adaptors, not converters, are available and work great.
My keyboard weighs more than my laptop.
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Which real PS2 to USB adapters? I tried various and my motherboard keeps losing connections or lag in both Windows XP Pro. SP3 and KNOPPIX live disc. :(
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http://www.clickykeyboards.com/ [clickykeyboards.com]
They sell the one I am using right now. I have no such problem.
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Reading the review, it sounds like the Model M is still going to be superior.
...and cheaper.
You can get a new one for $79 on pckeyboard.com.
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The Unicomp's not really a reproduction. They basically licensed the tech and bought the plant from Lexmark when Lexmark decided to get out of the keyboard business.
They may have licensed the technology, but they're not deploying it to it's original specs. I'd call that a reproduction, close and licensed, but still a reproduction.
Thankfully, I'm not picky with keyboards. Just like not having the golden ear, I save a lot of money that way.
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Re:I bought one (Score:4, Informative)
That's due to the switch design. An MX is a wiping gold plated contact design. Going to be feeling a bit "gritty" for starters. The bucking spring design was superior for tactile feedback- which is why I prefer a Model M "Clacker" over a Cherry keyswitch design- but I'll take a Cherry over the membrane contact and bubble switch designs since it's still superior over those.
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Which version are they based on?
The later lexmark units are inferior to the older 1391401.
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I use this same keyboard for work and it is wonderful. It is slightly lighter than the Model M I was using before but feels the same while typing.
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I've bought 3 ... it's the only thing I want to type on. I've had one for over 3 years and it seems indestructible. The key printing isn't rubbing off either.
What's great is how they've become viral at work since I've brought mine in. It's great to hear the clickety-clack coming from other offices.
Relevant to this article, I bought a Rosewill to try. The build quality is less-than-desirable, and I suppose I'll be trying out their warranty service with the referenced USB port issue. I've stopped buying
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Heh... When I found out about Unicomp I bought one of their keyboards- on the spot. Hoping to get it back out of storage soon. Keyboard I've got is nice, but the clacker's better by leaps and bounds.
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At this point the Unicomp keyboards are a medicore Model M clone as far as I'm concerned. The build quality of the Model M keyboards was already slipping while being released under the Lexmark name. There is a noticable drop in keyboard feel if you compare a 1994 and 1995 model; there was a 1995 redesign to lower costs [thefreelibrary.com]. And judging from the two Unicomp samples I've tried, the quality kept dropping under their watch.
Re:I bought one (Score:4, Funny)
All the old stuff is better. They just don't make it like they used to. Why back in $YEAR, they were durable and built to last, now $COMPANY's really gone down the drain...
Or maybe that's just nostalgia... I always get those things confused.
The "did the Model M quality drop" issue has been covered in depth at Geekhack and other places, and apart from a reduction of the metal back plate by (IIRC) a couple hundred grams, there aren't any substantial differences. (There was also a change in plastic makeup, for what people speculated to be regulatory reasons, but that's about it.) The reduction in weight corresponded in some people's minds -- yours included, apparently -- to a "reduction" in durability, but that's psychological. People perceive heavier things as being sturdier; it's the same reason why some audiophile companies add weights to their products.
For me the reason to get a Unicomp board in addition to my used Ms was simple:
Unicomp 0) still makes durable, reliable keyboards 1) actively employs people in the US 2) offers a warranty and repairs any Model M you bring them. None of those things are true if you buy a used Model M.
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The problem lies in more of adapting the "old stuff" to the new. Upshot is that Unicomp's offering USB models along with USB models with the "eraser" mouse in it. Pretty useful for server settings and the like. I'll adapt my old Model M keyboards and the like as long as I can, but I'll buy a Unicomp as long as they are in business for a "newer" keyboard.
Re:I bought one (Score:5, Interesting)
None of those things are true if you buy a used Model M.
I'm sure it's not an official policy, but I was missing a few keycaps off a Model M (a 1980s model) and shot off an email to Unicomp to ask them if I could buy just a few caps from them. I made it clear that I was expecting to pay for them.
The guy emailed me back, asking what keycaps I was missing. I answered, and then didn't hear from him again. A week or so later, I get a small box in the mail with my keycaps.
I had never given Unicomp a dime of my money - this was an old IBM product I wanted parts for. Since then, I've bought three of their keyboards, and they're the only keyboard I'll buy.
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This is confusing, as the Model M is based on a buckling spring, not a mechanical switch as the keyboards in the article have. Also, it's worth mentioning that there are vastly different Model M's--IIRC, the earlier ones have a softer feel, and the later ones require much more pressure. I have a Unicomp Model M, and it appears to be closer to the latter, which I dislike.
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I wanted to get one from them, but their shipping calculator doesn't include my country; I tried to ask, and they never replied to my email. Went to eBay and got a Solidtek 6600 instead.
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I bought two... one for home and one for work (my beloved original Model M keyboard finally died.)
Those keyboards are the best computer peripherals I've bought in a long time.
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I keep meaning to buy some keyboards from there, but the six Model M's I have on my desk and in my lab refuse to die.... I'm stuck on old keyboards that look old, are dirty and don't have any of the modern keys... and have old PS2 style cables. Something like 15 years old and the refuse to DIE!
Really PCKeyboard (aka Unicomp) I really will be buying some keyboards from you ... real soon now.... if these Model M's would just DIE.
Hands down best site.. (Score:5, Informative)
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That would very much be my assessment of the Cherry key switches over the IBM buckling springs - the IBM is heavier, and louder, but the key sound is probably less irritating (even if people do comment about the machine gun noise on conference calls...)
In addition, they don't have the longevity of the IBM switches, the switches on my G80-3000 are slightly less reliable now. While I have confidence in my current keyboard lasting me a few more decades, I really wish I'd bought the other one from the same vend
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I never thought I'd read something that would make me feel so bad about my keyboard chioces. :(
Bluetooth? (Score:2)
Does anyone make a Bluetooth keyboard with mechanical switches, or is it all just USB or PS/2? (And why would anyone want to use PS/2 in a new design, anyway?)
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And why would anyone want to use PS/2 in a new design, anyway?
Some users of KVM switches or older computers may find it useful and I doubt there is any signficiant cost difference between a chip that can scan a keyboard and output over USB and one that can scan a keyboard and autodetects USB or PS2.
Also IIRC there is a design flaw in the USB keyboard specs which limits the number of keys that can register as down at the same time.
Re:Bluetooth? (Score:5, Informative)
PS/2 has unlimited simultaneous keypresses (n key rollover/NKRO). USB, depending on where you look, either cannot, or needs a workaround to do more than 6 keys and a certain number of modifiers, generally 4 (shift/alt/ctrl/super).
Re:Bluetooth? (Score:5, Informative)
Accurate, and, on top of that, USB is polling based, while PS/2 is interrupt based. USB will check the port every "n" milliseconds to see if there's data waiting, while with a PS/2 keyboard, when you press a key, an interrupt is generated. The delay is very short (depending on how often a given keyboard's driver polls, it might only be 10 milliseconds or so), but it's worth noting.
PS/2 is still significantly better than USB for keyboard technology. But USB is usually good enough if you're not a gamer.
It is worth noting too, that just because you have PS/2 doesn't mean you have NKRO automatically, as depending on the technology 'underneath the hood' of a keyboard, it might not allow certain combinations of simultaneous keypresses. But that's an issue that's resolved by getting a mechanical keyboard, since they have the individual switches.
Shameless plug: Steelseries 7G. It's a big investment for a keyboard, but it provides NKRO, is a native PS/2 keyboard, is well constructed, and has audio jacks and USB ports on the keyboard, as well as a removable plastic wrist rest.
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Thanks for pointing out the interrupt bit, didn't know that.
PS/2 has the downside of sketchy hot-plug support, which is of debatable importance. Not very if you're a gamer and leave your system set up. But it is something that hits people who never really used PS/2 keyboards/mice and are used to being able to hotswap all external hardware without issue.
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It's a software (bios) issue. Many older motherboards kept the keyboard port active regardless of if one was plugged in on boot (although almost all of them disable the ps/2 mouse port if a mouse isn't detected on startup. Especially annoying with 'passive' vga/ps2 kvm switches, where you have to switch over and wait for bootup on any system you reboot/power on or else find out you need to reboot when you switch over later and the mouse isn't working). But if the ports are 'always on' in the bios, you can s
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I also understood that USB required some polling whereas PS/2 is a straight hardware interrupt type affair.
quick google... [overclock.net] yes, PS/2 is less intensive on your system, faster and doesn't suffer keypress limits and it also doesn't get delayed because some other USB device is hogging the USB bandwidth (which is more important if you've plugged your keyboard into a USB extension port on your monitor)
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I haven't even seen a computer with a PS/2 adapter in about a decade...
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lol, it's the circular plug. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131848 [newegg.com]
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Typing, sure. Gaming? Happens rather frequently.
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How often does this really happen in gaming? I mainly do MMOs and FPSes, which AFAIK are the most keyboard-intensive types of games, and I have a hard time figuring out how you'd hit more than 6 at a time.
I can really only think of the following "sustained" keypresses:
1. Movement forward/backward
2. Strafing
3. Turning
4. Crouching or Jumping (if jump height is tied to how long the key is held)
5. Display info (e.g. scoreboard)
Everything else you would do is a momentary keypress, which assuming you're doing all
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Emacs users the world over disagree with you.
Maybe if you're deaf (Score:2)
People like to swear by mechanical keyboards. However, mechanical keyboards make me start swearing. I find it hard to concentrate when suffering that cacophanous sound constantly and it ruins any semblance of a tranquil work environment for me.
To each their own, I guess
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Glad to know I'm not the only one who doesn't like the cacophony these keyboards generate. It seems they're even more annoying in an office environment. I understand the appeal on a tactile level, but never liked the noise. If they made it so they were quieter, perhap
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I agree.
Despite all the talk of positive feedback, accuracy, key travel, etc. I find I get on best with an Apple keyboard, which has little feedback and almost no key travel (probably less so than a typical laptop keyboard).
It's quiet and effortless, and very comfortable to use. When I'm forced to use another keyboard (e.g. on-site at a customer's offices) I often find it way too noisy. In a quiet office it's almost embarrassing to type when there's a loud 'clack' sound with each key press.
What? (Score:2)
So you have to start them up like a chainsaw or something?
Are they like the old C-64/VT100 keyboards. Cause you needed kung-fu death fingers to type on those.
Waiting for a gasoline powered one myself (Score:2)
http://youtu.be/w7A7ZmVar8w [youtu.be]
The above is the Nissan Leaf commercial for those who need the context
Das (Score:3)
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What's the key stroke depth like? Have you ever typed on a Model M for comparison? I like the feel of a model M (and I have two - an original and a Unicomp) - but the key travel is a bit long for my tastes.
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I have Model M at work and Das Keyboard with Cherry MX Browns at home. They're both great. If I had to chose one, I would chose the Browns over the buckling springs. It's just a little easier to type all day without fatigue, and they are much easier on your co-workers' ears. They are slightly lighter to actuate and just a shade less springy.
However, you do give up the extra-ordinarily crisp and precise actuation point that the buckling spring has. The spring has the most fluid and crisp motion of any o
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I've got two of the Das Ultimate keyboards, one at work and one at home. I love them.
Using the blue cherry switches. They're really not all that loud at all, despite the company selling earplugs for your coworkers. :)
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"Truly Ergonomic" : Ergonomic with Cherry MX Brown (Score:2)
The Truly Ergonomic Keyboard [trulyergonomic.com] is a smaller ergonomic keyboard that currently only comes with Cherry MX Brown switches.
There are other, larger, keybards like the Maltron or Kinesis that are ergonomic with mechanical switches, but they tend to be enormous, while the "Truly Ergonomic" is similar in size to the "Happy Hacker" keyboard.
Another advantage (Score:2)
Another advantage of my decades old model M is the keys don't stick. I have a POS dell mushboard at work and my biggest annoyance is you need to hit the keys, especially the larger keys, precisely up and down or they stick half way or slip-stick-slip-stick before they hit. So unconsciously the poor quality makes repetitive stress injuries more likely.
Mini USB is a poor choice (Score:2)
Filco? (Score:2)
These come in variants with the various Cherry keys, and also without the keypad, which is very good if (1) you don't use a keypad and (2) you're right handed and don't want the mouse too far away. Here [amazon.com] - anyone tried them? I haven't. Tempted though.
I procrastinated buying a new keyboard long enough (Score:2)
for it to get back in fashion. Yay!
They don't have to be noisy (Score:3)
You can get foam "landing pads" which eliminate the bottoming-out clackiness of all the cherry-type keyboards. That makes all but the blue switches almost entirely silent.
http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=access,slpads [elitekeyboards.com]
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If you're bottoming out a cherry keyboard though, you're probably doing it wrong. Cherry switches have the activation point somewhat higher than the bottom of the key travel - so you can touch type with a lighter 'gliding' motion across the keys, only depressing them as much as you need to to hit the activation point. Some, like the blues and browns give you a tactile 'change in force' when you hit it, so you know you've activated and can start back on the way up. This is hard to learn to do though, especia
Wish it came without the numpad (Score:2)
I wish I could get a buckling spring design without the numpad. (or with the numpad on the left) Who has room for that? Looks like you can get a keyboard with those CherryMX switches without the numpad (for substantial cost) but I've never actually tried one of those before. I wish I could give it a shot first.
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Here's one with the Cherry Browns [elitekeyboards.com] and no numpad for $99 + approx. $14 shipping. Haven't tried it.
Good guide for mechanical keyboards (Score:2)
http://www.overclock.net/t/491752/mechanical-keyboard-guide [overclock.net]
WASD keyboards (Score:2, Informative)
I can't believe no one mentioned WASD keyboards:
http://www.wasdkeyboards.com
You can fully customize the keyboard, from what is printed on each key (and what font is used) and what color the key is, to what type of switches they use.
They don't cost much more than other mechanical boards.
I highly recommend them!
I'm rocking Cherry Blues right now. Love em. (Score:2)
I wubs me mechanical keyboards
If you want Cherry Switches, buy a Cherry Keyboard (Score:2)
I looked at several keyboards using Cherry switches and after price comparisons, I could buy a full blown Cherry Keyboard similar to the IBM Model M for the same cost as the damn Rosewill crap on Newegg. You have to go to CDW.com for them but better build quality and such is the advantage and that's where my next keyboard is coming from.
Meh. (Score:2)
A Model F [clickykeyboards.com] keyboard with a custom USB converter.
You need one of these (Score:3)
You need one of these: PS/2 to USB Adaptor [dealextreme.com]
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Correct, the device linked is a converter. What is needed for this task is an adapter.
Re:You need one of these (Score:4, Interesting)
Not so. You're thinking of the little green USB -> PS2 adapters like the ones that used to come with the MS Intellimouse, which were purely electrical because the PS/2 circuitry was in the mouse.
Why would any keyboard with a PS/2 plug on it (and without it's own USB plug) be able to output USB signals?
These little dongles contain a USB HID device for both mouse and keyboard and bridge the input from the PS/2 devices, as you describe. There are some concerns with a genuine old Model M because they draw a lot of current, and some of these adapters can't cope with it, but I've been lucky so far (my Model M is a '96, so it's a relatively late model, I suspect the keyboard controller is not as hungry).
I've got both a Cherry G80-3000 and a Model M hooked up to these adapters and both seem to be fine. The only downside is that you lose the N-key roll-over, and who uses that?
The Cherry is showing signs of age - some of the switches are getting a little unreliable. The Model M is still going strong, and looks like new after you strip it down and wash the casing and keycaps. I'd still buy another Cherry in a heartbeat - the Model M is just too loud to take into an open-plan office.
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That depends on whether you've got noise-cancelling headphones... >:-D
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Someone who is trying to run forward, strafe sideways, jump, and reload all at the same time?
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Because they have a clean key press, dome keyboards are too squishy. If you can make a clean break feeling without the noise do it.
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It might be more accurate to say keyboards with mechanical switches.
It's true that keyboards with dome switches are mechanical in the sense of being based on moving parts, but they are essentially a mechanical key put on top of a membrane switches [wikipedia.org], similar to how the buttons you find on microwaves operate. Switches where the switch action is based on moving rigid parts, rather than a flexing membrane, are usually the ones called "mechanical switches".
Re:Define "mechanical keyboard". (Score:5, Interesting)
The mechanical keyswitches are better to type on.
Anecdotal : my dear grey-haired mother used to be a legal secretary, so she would type most of the day for all of her professional career. When I saw that she was getting arthritis in her finger joints, as any good son would, I replaced the shitty generic standard-issue membrane keyboard that came with her office computer with a decent Cherry. Her arthritis improved significantly within weeks. (Both keyboards were non-ergonomic standard layout). When she retired, she took the keyboard with her and continues to use it even today.
The main problem with a membrane keyboard is a lack of positive feedback. You have to wait until a character appears on screen and your brain has processed this event to know whether you have successfully hit the key. For a fast typist, this is way to slow, so instead, they start to mash the keys harder than necessary in order to be sure of positive contact. Hence the finger joint arthritis.
With a mechanical keyswitch, there are two forms of positive feedback that you have successfully hit the key. First, there is the characteristic "click" sound. Secondly, there is the moment in the keystroke when the key switch "gives". This means that your finger can sense precisely how much effort is required to achieve positive contact, which means you only expend as much effort as necessary. In my humble opinion, ergonomic keyboards are a really stupid response to most typing RSI issues, and it's probably a better idea to get a keyboard with proper keyswitches - all the ergonomic boards I've touched still have the same shitty membrane switches.
The thing that got to me the most was her IT departments disgruntled response about having to install a new keyboard - "Why do you need a special keyboard?" (she shut them up by informing them her son was both a doctor and a computer professional). A professional typist (whether you're typing code, or legal papers) should use a professional keyboard. IBM understood this when they developed the Model M. It's a shame that we've lost that in the quest for cost savings..
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This isn't true of Maltrons -- I have a friend who's a huge fan, owning 3 generations of the product. According to Wikipedia, [wikipedia.org] they use Cherry MX switches.
Re:Define "mechanical keyboard". (Score:4, Informative)
In my humble opinion, ergonomic keyboards are a really stupid response to most typing RSI issues, and it's probably a better idea to get a keyboard with proper keyswitches - all the ergonomic boards I've touched still have the same shitty membrane switches.
90% of the 'ergonomic' keyboards are only ergonomic because their marketing department decided to call it that. There's no actual testing, no actual thought on what would help the typist, they just copied what everyone else calls ergonomic.
If you are going to get an ergonomic keyboard, look for the ones where they actually thought about it - they'll cost more, but they'll actually be good as well. Personally, I use a Kinesis, and it's very good. They also all have mechanical switches - some models even offer a choice of which switch you want.
On the other hand, you'll never find them in a store...
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Why do you assume we do it to annoy/impress others? Even if you're completely alone, a Model M is the best keyboard available.
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Isn't any keyboard with moving parts, i.e., anything that's not touch sensitive a "mechanical keyboard"?
Strictly speaking, they're mechanically switched keyboards, as opposed to the rubber-dome-with-electrical-contacts type most cheap (and not-so-cheap) keyboards are; i.e. 'mechanical' keyboards have a moving parts lever and/or spring based mechanism to register a keypress rather than just a bubbled rubber mat.
It's just a handy way to tell the two types apart - the typing style on a mechanical keyboard is m
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I'm a considerate coworker, and so when I brought my Loner to work I passed out icepicks, iodine solution and cotton balls to everyone within earshot.
Truly Ergonomic Keyboard (Score:2)
http://www.trulyergonomic.com/ [trulyergonomic.com]
The layout is a bit funky, but if you can get used to it then it's a decent keyboard. I find it great for typing documents, not so good for coding.
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thnkpad
Apparently not.
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Our friends at Unicomp also have a Mac version of their keyboard - the Spacesaver M. Freakin' awesome.... feels like '92 all over again.
This post was brought to you by the Unicomp Spacesaver M.
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Best bet would be the filco majestouch tenkeyless - one of the rare UK layout mechanical keyboards.
http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_search.asp?SG=10037 [keyboardco.com]
Available with cherry browns, blues or blacks depending on what tactile response you want. Ps2 native with usb adapter if needed.
I have the cherry brown filco at home (I type and game on it) and it's the best keyboard I've ever owned - and that includes my old IBM death spring model m. The filco leather wrist wrest is also worth investing in.
Blues are best
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Ps2 native with usb adapter if needed.
Now I think about it, I've got that wrong - the cable is USB, but it comes with a PS/2 adapter so it will properly be PS/2 if you need NKRO rather than 10KRO - it has the circuitry for both.
Oo (Score:2)
Best bet would be the filco majestouch tenkeyless - one of the rare UK Patten mechanical keyboards - as already suggested ;)
http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_search.asp?SG=10037 [keyboardco.com]
Available with cherry browns, blues or blacks depending on what tactile response you want. Ps2 native with usb adapter if needed.
I have the cherry brown filco at home (I type and game on it) and it's the best keyboard I've ever owned - and that includes my old IBM death spring model m. The filco leather wrist wrest is also worth inv
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Because cherry G80's look like they're a reject from the 1970s, and take up the desk space to match?
I have a G80-3000 UK cherry blue at the office, and it beats the hell out of a rubber membrane - but the thing's near twice the size of a filco majestouch (my choice at home), and that's not even comparing to say the tenkeyless filco's which are tiny in comparison.
Plus I couldn't find a G80 with cherry browns and a UK layout.