Review of the First Medfield Phone 66
Google85 writes "Beginning April 23rd, Intel, through Lava International, began selling the Xolo X900 smartphone in India for $420, Anandtech has just published a review of the smartphone which runs Android on x86 and uses binary translation as the mitigation for both libraries and NDK applications that haven't yet been ported to x86."
Yeah, but will they guarantee the fab space? (Score:2)
When push comes to shove, they make more money on PC CPUs. When they have a choice of making a wafer of high-margin vs low-margin CPUs, who do you think will win? Don't be surprised if there are major supply problems every time the PC market takes an uptick.
Re: (Score:2)
depends how many (they think) they will sell, I'd say..
Re: (Score:2)
I'm sorry but all of them even the one you linked to is the same design, they are just polished different. same as how jet liners are the same design they just are done differently.. it's called a dominate design
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominant_design [wikipedia.org]
Re:Emulation layer? No thanks. (Score:5, Interesting)
Aside from abstract contemplation of "progress" vs "backwards" it probably burns power and generates crazy heat.
I have a X86 netbook on my desk running Android ICS. An old Asus EEE model 900. (my wife has like a 700 also running ICS). It works great, really. The keyboard, although icky netbook size, is better than any smartphone I've ever seen, and the speakers, although icky netbook speakers, are better than any phone or tablet speakers I've ever experienced. The problem is that even running non-emulated (limited selection) apps without an emu layer, it pumps out so much heat even just idling that the cooling fan never turns off. Whirr 24x7. I would imagine an emulation layer would consume even more power.
I would theorize that much as laptops which burn laps are VERY old news, in the future, phones that burn ears and hands are going to be news.
Who will make the first smartphone with a cooling fan? Or a monster solid aluminum heatsink case like a handheld land mobile or ham radio HT?
My experiences show Android X86 would make a pretty good desktop OS for the average user. I'm looking into adding a desktop running android and putting it on the KVM with the other 4 machines on my desk at home (I guess making it my 5th machine)
Re: (Score:3)
I would imagine an emulation layer would consume even more power.
Not always. A game running in PocketNES on a Game Boy Advance SP, especially later versions of PocketNES that can recognize common idle loops in NES games, doesn't use substantially more power than a native GBA game. And with a lot of Android applications spending most of their time either in libraries or blocking on I/O, the emulator isn't going to be running all the time.
Re: (Score:2)
nes is what like 30 years old now? emulating it could probably be done by a dumb phones possessor with out to much strain. A modern arm system will take a lot more power.
Most of an app isn't emulated (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Only those methods in the application that use JNI have to be emulated.
Presumably those are by far the most computationally intensive routines, otherwise the developers wouldn't have bothered with JNI.
Could just be in a non-Dalvik language (Score:2)
Presumably those are by far the most computationally intensive routines, otherwise the developers wouldn't have bothered with JNI.
That or they're just ports of an application for another platform whose model layer [wikipedia.org] is written in C++ or another language that doesn't compile to Dalvik bytecode.
Re: (Score:2)
A native game is likely to be doing a lot more than a NES game, a NES game ported to run natively would use considerably less power than the emulation or a more modern game.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Emulation layer? No thanks. (Score:5, Informative)
Instead of theorizing why not look at their measured stats? The phone was pretty much as power efficient as current OMAP4 phones. Secondly, Intel is using static binary translation for native ARM NDK apps so there is no emulation layer running on the phone itself for that. In those cases Intel pushes an x86 binary out to the user that has been translated and validated on their side. For most things, though, they are straight Dalvik apps and so there is no more translation overhead than Dalvik on ARM.
Re: (Score:2)
[...] it pumps out so much heat even just idling that the cooling fan never turns off. Whirr 24x7.
That sounds more like a serious bug ICS on x86 than an indication of platform efficiency.
I would imagine an emulation layer would consume even more power.
That's a reasonable assumption, but the Anand review didn't see any indication that emulation was a big power draw. If anything, the battery life and efficiency (battery life normalized to battery size) were middle of the pack. Disappointingly unexciting for people rooting for either a big win or a big loss.
Of course you're going to have to emulate (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
They are doing a static binary translation before you download the app. Sure, that won't be as efficient as something compiled natively, but according to their power stats it seems to make little difference as it is just as efficient as the OMAP4 SoC.
Nokia's magic blue pill (Score:1)
Nokia Lumina series based on windows is the single roll of the dice bet for Nokia it appears. Obviously to be viable it needs to migrate to the upcoming windows OS. The Nokia runs on ARM. But by all accounts Windows on Arm (WindowsRT) is a half-baked disaster. So Nokia is toast... unless there some way to get an intel processor into a nokia phone that could still run ARM software. Then they could use the new OS but still retain all legacy drivers and applications for ARM.
Switiching to Intel would also
Re: (Score:2)
Whoever thought that designing a future product to use an ISA from the 1970s which emulates an ISA from the 1990s would be a good idea?
Well, yeah, except that's not all- AFAIK all Intel x86 CPUs since the Pentium Pro and Pentium II have been designed around a non-x86 RISC-like core, using an internal translation layer to convert x86 instructions on the fly (and hence are still "x86" compatible chips to an external observer).
Actually, I've heard some say the core isn't really that RISC-like, but the point is that it's still *not* x86 and relies on translation.
And yes, I did note in the other comments that Intel's solution uses static tr
Why.. India? (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
You'd be surprised just how large and healthy the cell phone market really is in India. Everyone there has a cell, from grannies to temple priests to guys on the street pulling carts of produce. Among the youth, smart phones are status symbols just like they are in North America, except probably even more people have them.
I bet India is a vastly larger market than you think.
Re: (Score:1)
Yeah, no one in India really has any money.
Re: (Score:2)
> Nokias
?? There are plenty of expensive Nokia smartphones too (and some are flimsy too).
Re:Why.. India? (Score:4, Interesting)
30% of 300 million in the USA is 90 mil
They're poor in India despite sending most of our middle class jobs there and also to China, so we'll give them only 1/3 of the market penetration
10% of 1.2 billion in India is 120 mil
Looks like India is a better market than the US, or at least as more theoretical customers.
Re: (Score:2)
you'd be stupid to not place it more on the lines of 5% or even less for the india figure.
the point is though, that whoever pushed this brand and phone had sales channels in india and india does have a sizable portion of tech geeks with money to burn on new platforms.
Re: (Score:2)
I based it on some wikipedia estimate of about 10% in India being in the middle class and about 30% in the US being in the middle class, and the middle class being the target market for a non-iphone smartphone.
Re: (Score:3)
the point is though, that whoever pushed this brand and phone had sales channels in india and india does have a sizable portion of tech geeks with money to burn on new platforms.
Except that most of the brands Intel has tied up with are popular in India primarily for selling ultra cheap chinese rebranded phones
Noone really buys phones worth more than USD 50 (100 at best) from them
Re: (Score:2)
Need more stuff in the high end range which is typically delayed by 2 - 6 months compared to US, if ever released
The cheapest Nokia costs less than USD20, other brands have even cheaper models
Indian Middle class is bigger than entire USA (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:1)
It looks like a total iPhone rip off.
Maybe they're targeting it at people who want iPhones but cannot afford them?
India? (Score:3)
Is this a first? Premiering a phone in India?
Going forward, as Chindia [google.com] rises in income, is this going to become the new norm? With the huge markets in China and India (even as a fraction of their total populations), will they become the global arbiters of taste?
Consider the case of 1920x1200 monitors. They're harder to find than a girl on Slashdot. They've all been replaced by 1920x1080 monitors because of economy of scale issues. So ... 15 years down the line, will 350 million people each in China and India dwarf the gadget markets in the US? (Yeah, I know, the mini-countries of Europe. But, again, two countries, two markets, hundreds of millions of people vs 35 markets.)
Re: (Score:2)
Is this a first? Premiering a phone in India?
No, Nokia does launch some of their absolute cheapest range in India exclusively IIRC
summary (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
What process are the chips built on? Last i heard intel were trying to stay at least one process shrink ahead of arm in order to make their chips competitive...
My summary for those that can't be bothered (Score:3)
It is not amazing, but it is competitive. Battery life is average, performance is average. GPU performance is currently a bit below average, but this is a solid first attempt. It clearly proves that x86 CPUs can compete on battery life.
The important question is this: why would you pick Intel over the established Android ARM cortex architecture? It is possible that price and Intel's famous production and supply can win over some manufacturers, but you'd expect something a bit more amazing was required to gain a considerable market share.
Missing the one real advantage of x86 (Score:1)
Re: (Score:1)
Re:Missing the one real advantage of x86 (Score:4, Funny)
Sir, I was taking a sip of coffee when I read your post and you now owe me 1 keyboard.
Re: (Score:2)
Why didn't they just put Windows XP on it? Then it would be *really* useful and have one clear advantage over every other phone.
You mean like THIS? [xpphone.com]
"Tons of thousands of internet application"
Re: (Score:3)
It's an x86; but it isn't really a member of the venerable 'IBM compatible' wintel family...
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
An x86 pocket PC (Score:5, Interesting)
A 1.6GHz Atom should be enough to run Windows XP sufficiently fast, imagine using all your favorite desktop apps on your phone, the screen's not too shabby either with 1024x600. Sure, most won't be optimized for touch input, but that trade-off is worth it for this kind of flexibility. Apps with source code can have their touch-friendliness added, for those that really require a mouse and/or keyboard, those could be added via Bluetooth (or USB?). I see no reason why it wouldn't be able to run apps like desktop Firefox/Chrome (with touch-input extensions), Gimp/Photoshop, MS Office, VLC, maybe even XBMC, or games like Warcraft/Starcraft titles, Counter strike or Quake (I was really missing the Quake3 benchmarks in TFA
Connect it to a monitor and use it as a *real* PC that fits in your pocket and you can bring anywhere - how cool is that?
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
There is a (real) X-server for Android now, search the market for it. It goes by the prozaic name of 'X server'...
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:3)
The ability to run x86 linux binaries isn't all that useful, the vast majority of linux software is open source and is just a compile away from arm. The arm port of debian has pretty much all the same packages available for it as the x86 version.
Firefox, chromium, gimp, vlc, xbmc, quake etc already run on arm, although on a touchscreen device people generally run touchscreen specific versions because the mouse/keyboard ui would be difficult to use.
There is already at least one arm based phone that has a doc
Re: (Score:2)
imagine using all your favorite desktop apps on your phone
No thanks, that would suck. The success of iPhone followed by Android shows that people want new software (or at least software with a new UI) suited to the form factor. In any case, my favourite desktop apps now consist of a web browser, and ... um. An IDE? Good luck using that on a phone.
Re: (Score:2)
Apps with source code can have their touch-friendliness added
Apps with source code don't need binary x86 compatability.