HP To Combine PC, Printer Divisions 142
itwbennett writes "Apotheker wanted to sell off HP's PC division, Whitman vowed not to, and now HP is combining the PC division with the printer division in an effort to cut costs, unnamed sources told the All Things D blog. Given that both divisions reported declining sales last quarter, is HP hoping that two wrongs make a right?"
What's next? Free printer with every ink purchase (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3)
Never had a HP inkjet that lasted longer than the first set of cartridges
Re:What's next? Free printer with every ink purcha (Score:4, Interesting)
This actually might not be a bad idea. If we could apply the miniaturization craze to printers that has been used on computers, maybe we could end up with a laptop that can spit out hard copies on request. Obviously it wouldn't have a huge reserve of blank paper, but for things like a boarding pass, movie ticket, or even just a quick print of the photo you just took, this could prove to be a useful idea. As small as current gen laptops have gotten I think you could combine one with a printer (and scanner too) without exceeding the 'reasonable to carry in a shoulder bag' size limit.
Re: (Score:2)
More recently, the sad, pitiful Ghost of Polaroid Future has been flogging a few products based on the 'zink'('zero ink' because we built the proprietary ink right into the proprietary paper!) based products of similarly miniature persuasion.
In the black-and-white world, Zebra and friends have had ruggedized and portable thermal label printers with vary
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
I think it's a completely BAD idea. I chose my notebook because it was small and light, yet had a big enough screen. Paper is bulky and heavy, and I don't often print anything at all, even at work.
And despite the added size and weight, even with a desktop it's a dumb idea. Printers have too many moving parts and break too easily. It's like a VCR/TV combo; the VCR will die years before the TV part does.
I do think incorporating the computer and screen in one enclosure would be a good ides -- oh wait, that's c
Re: (Score:2)
It's an application specific device. I could use such things for industrial or commercial applications like the GP mentioned: ticketing, sales, proofing. I agree with you that the average tablet owner would never want one.
Re: (Score:2)
If we could apply the miniaturization craze to printers that has been used on computers,
I wish, printers weigh half of what my new 13" Asus does (2.06 KG) but take up 3-4 times the desk space which is precisely why I dont have one. I just want a small printer, I dont give a crap if it's A5 and I have to feed the sheets in myself, I use one about once a month to print out a map or something.
Tablets and phones are not an option here as I cant leave them with someone else and it's dangerous (and illegal) to use them whilst driving.
Re: (Score:3)
TV with a built-in printer (Score:2)
One of the more novel bits of old TV-based technology that I saw was a wooden-case-era CRT TV with a built-in mini-printer that allowed the viewer to print out hard copies of teletext pages.
Re: (Score:2)
Remember when some CRT TVs had integrated VHS decks? I hated those things. So cheap. So ugly.
While they weren't a great idea for general use, I can see that they had some potentially useful niches. I remember one job I had in the late 90s where I was sent into a room to watch some stupid corporate video on one of those.
It occurred to me that this was one use where they might be beneficial over separates. It was a simple manner for them to haul out the portable TV/video, plug it in and start the video, then put it away again when I was finished. Nice simple box that fits in a cupboard.
Had that b
Re: (Score:2)
I've got a HP inkjet sitting on my desk that's over 10 years old and is still working. Granted, it hasn't been in use all that time, but it still has several years of use on it.
Re:What's next? Free printer with every ink purcha (Score:5, Funny)
No, but the power supplies will have chips in them that run out every 6 months, and you'll have to get a replacement - which costs about 75% of the cost of a new machine.
Re:What's next? Free printer with every ink purcha (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:What's next? Free printer with every ink purcha (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
That's because they assume that unlike consumers, professionals factor the price of consumables into the buying decision.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Actually, if you price them out, the commercial supplies come in at exactly the same cost / mL as consumer cartridge ink. I've only compared Canon ink to their commercial inkjet printers, but commercial prices range from about $0.34/mL to $1.03/mL (PFI-103MBK, 130 mL tank, about $45-$140 retail). Small format cartridges, (BCI-6BK 14.5mL, $5-$15 retail), cost anywhere from $0.34/mL to $1.03/mL.
The difference is that a printing shop charges their customers enough to cover all their costs and make a profit.
Re: (Score:2)
For the really big HP ink tanks (HP 91s, they hold 775ml of ink), MSRP is $293 or about $0.38/ml. Still right in the same range as smaller cartridges...
No, Free PC bundled w/ printer (Score:2)
That way, inventory will be forced to move, and they can even mark-up their printers a bit, and let the toner be refillable. That would allow them to lower cost of the ink, bump up printer prices and not worry about the PC's competition, such as Dell.
Next move would be to integrate the monitor bases w/ the printer and make it one unit, so that they can raise that price even more, while throwing in a Touchpad w/ it.
Re: (Score:2)
Printer manufacturers have a vested interest in having you buy their ink, from the little 8.5x11 printers t
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
What if the 3D printer created another 3D Printer which created another 3D printer...
You think Tribbles are bad? Imagine tribbles that consume HP ink everytime they reproduced. The economy would collapse. Iraq would be invading US to get access to a black liquid, ink.
Re: (Score:2)
Wasn't that the intire primiss of the movie batteries not included
Merging strategies (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Maybe they'll go dangerously 90's and try combining a minaturized printer with a laptop. The kids will dig that.
Hooray! (Score:5, Interesting)
More seriously, I imagine that there might be some economies to be wrung out of combining two divisions that both specialize in the logistics of rebadging and regurgitating plastic shit; but I cannot think of a single positive design or engineering lesson to be shared between the two.
Re: (Score:2)
Maybe by combining the divisions, they'll get actual programmers working on the printer drivers instead of whatever they have no (I can only assume semi-trained monkeys).
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Maybe we'll get lucky and the HP-UX team will take care of it. I've never used HP-UX myself, but an acquaintance of mine recently turned into an HP-UX fanboy after getting his hands on one of their servers.
Re: (Score:2)
That's because you're thinking like an engineer. Think like an accountant instead. By combining HR, marketing and logistics they can save some overhead. I don't know if that is their plan or not, but many companies do just that. It might not't save huge amounts, but it will save them some money.
Re: (Score:2)
Dinosaurs, with Trilobites attached? (Score:3)
Desktop PCs and printers:
Buggy whips and horse shoes?
Fat collars and bell bottoms?
Sextants and paper charts?
(He quipped while typing on his desktop PC and printing the morning meeting agenda...)
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
When it comes to printing on paper, you are so so very wrong. The printer will never go away. Paper provides more than just information. It provides the ability to give it to someone else..
Fixed that for you.
He's also wrong about the desktop. They'll always be around even though laptops will be more popular. I'm not getting a laptop backlash from some clients who dont want a portable computer, not to mention all the businesses that find laptops grow legs too easily.
Re: (Score:2)
Desktop PCs and printers:
Buggy whips and horse shoes?
Fat collars and bell bottoms?
Sextants and paper charts?
Obligatory [penny-arcade.com]
I have noticed a marked tendency for doomed businesses to attempt mergers with other equally doomed businesses.
And when it happens I always think of cartoon characters who have run off a cliff grabbing hold of other cartoon characters who have run off the same cliff.
Makes sense (Score:5, Insightful)
Five years ago, HP made pretty nice printers and pretty crappy computers.
Now they make pretty nice printers and pretty crappy computers, but the print drivers are so horrible (and bloated) they might as well give you a rock and call it a printer.
Re: (Score:1)
[...] but the print drivers are so horrible (and bloated) they might as well give you a rock and call it a printer.
That last part is only true for their Windows drivers, their Linux drivers rock. Well, at least compared to the sorry state of all their competitors...
Re:Makes sense (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Tried that with the last batch of new HP printers we got. They don't even offer the driver on their website, just a "driver update" that requires you have the software and driver from the CD already installed. We have a hacked together solution based on files from the PC that only crashes our print server a few times a day.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I would dearly love to know how you define "nice" as applied to their printers. No better than any other manufacturer - frequently worse - and the only way I can make sense of the drivers is that HP's driver engineers have got some sort of a sweepstake going on along the lines of "How terrible can we make the driver before we start to see significant customer backlash?"
"No better than other manufacturers" (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The Quality Assurance of HP leaves a lot of room for improvement.
But other manufacturers also has problems, so it's not unique to HP.
Re: (Score:2)
Actually, our current issues are with new (less than 1 year old) laserjets on Windows 7 and Server 2008 and 2008 R2. The XP machines and older HP printers are the ones with no problems. Now it's hard just to find HP drivers on their own without installing their crapware too.
people still use printers at home? (Score:2)
i haven't had a printer at home for years now and hardly miss it
photos? - CVS or any of the online places and either have them shipped or go pick them up. $.19 cents a photo can't be beat
if i need to print a few pages every few months i'll do it at work
a big job like 50 pages i'll pay the $7 to fedex/kinko. but i only need that once a year or so
what is there to print that people see a need to buy these things for home use other than for a home business?
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
if i need to print a few pages every few months i'll do it at work?
You haven't eliminated your need to print at home, you're just stealing the service form your employer rather than paying for it yourself...get off your high horse thief.
Re: (Score:3)
i haven't had a printer at home for years now and hardly miss it
photos? - CVS or any of the online places and either have them shipped or go pick them up. $.19 cents a photo can't be beat
if i need to print a few pages every few months i'll do it at work
a big job like 50 pages i'll pay the $7 to fedex/kinko. but i only need that once a year or so
what is there to print that people see a need to buy these things for home use other than for a home business?
My wife is an editor. Textbook manufacturers contract her out to edit textbooks. She receives about 200 pages of text at a time and hates sitting at her PC to read all of that to do her edits. It is much easier for her to print out a chapter, go lay on the couch or bed with her pen and mark up her edits there. When she's done, she loads edits into the PC and replaces the paper back into the printer (backwards of course to print on the back). I told her I might be able to load this onto her Kindle, but
Re: (Score:2)
go lay on the couch or bed ... and mark up her edits
Looking at the cost of paper and toner, wouldn't a used laptop pay for itself in just a couple books and increase her productivity?
Don't make the mistake of buying a portable gamer machine or portable video editing machine to edit documents. Pretty much anything new enough to have a decent display would work.
Re: (Score:2)
go lay on the couch or bed ... and mark up her edits
Looking at the cost of paper and toner, wouldn't a used laptop pay for itself in just a couple books and increase her productivity?
Don't make the mistake of buying a portable gamer machine or portable video editing machine to edit documents. Pretty much anything new enough to have a decent display would work.
If she did this for every single page, you would be correct. I did not state it specifically, but she still does most of the editing on her PC and only uses the pen and paper technique whenever she feels like working in front of the TV until she passes out, papers strewn across the floor. Also, she only does a few books a year as a supplement to our income. The cost of a capable notebook would take over quarter of the year's pay for this. An iPad would mean she is working for nothing more than an iPad.
R
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
there is an ipad or some other tablet with her name on it for this
Re: (Score:2)
Actually, there are several apps on iPad that do this about as easily as paper and sticky notes. Try GoodReader for one. It can even convert text/doc to PDF for markup. It can output a marked up PDF that can be viewed anywhere. Much less training than you might imagine.
Re: (Score:2)
I too have that issue when editing really complex technical docs. Sometimes the only way to really grasp the structure is the print it and spread it out on a large table or on the floor.
Not suprising (Score:3)
The Current HP makes cheap crappy printers even in their business range of laser jets that always have problems. Their PC division makes cheap crappy PCs that are no better than anyone else. Is it just me or do these things sound like being similar enough that maybe they can be formed into one division that makes crappy Printers & PCs? I mean how much work is it to make crappy devices anyways? So cut the engineers in half again by making them work on both... They are already crappy so it's not like they can go much further down at this point...
Re: (Score:3)
Is it just me or do these things sound like being similar enough that maybe they can be formed into one division
Carried to its logical conclusion, they end up as walmart, merely accepting large shipments of bulk product from china, and they may not be ready to admit that to themselves or to convince their investors they can survive in that big world.
Nothing wrong with Laserjets (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I have been doing network management for a university for the last couple years, we don't own a single $1000+ dollar HP anything. We have laserjets, but they don't cost more than about $500 USD. Printing beyond that is done by Ricoh Copier/Printers nearly exclusively (A couple Toshiba's are mixed in). I have seen a $500 office laserjet just decide it doesn't won't to see the network before (the line tested fine, the printer worked on other lines but not that one), let alone the sheer volume of random jammin
I remember the 5 series (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
If only they hadn't eliminated all their geeks... (Score:5, Funny)
Purely for the pointless nerd-value, who among us would not smile to see a line of x86 PCs that, instead of a BIOS or EFI, had a firmware based on the unholy fusion of the design principles of Open Firmware; but with an extended PJL command set, rather than Forth, as the underlying language?
It'd be magnificently pointless(as would the postscript and PCL RIPs implemented entirely in SMM); but the world would be a better place for it having existed...
Missing the (quality) past (Score:2)
Maybe the printer folks would not be having so many issues if they built the printers like the LaserJet 4 - long lasting and rugged - not like the disposable junk they make now full of even more flimsy plastic and circuit boards that need to be "toasted" in the oven from time to time to keep them working.
Last decent printers I purchased form them was the LaserJet 8150 - even with their tendency to eat low-voltage power supplies (at least I could get the parts to fix 'em myself) First one that was a sign of
Re: (Score:2)
are you using HP toner?
years ago i used to have laserjet 4's jam all the time. i was given a tip by the repair guy to switch to HP toner. magically the jams went away.
the cheap toner made all the moving parts dirty and a guy with some special cleaner would come in and clean the printer. i saw the bottle but can't remember the name.
Re: (Score:2)
Funny you should talk about HP9000s - we've got a bunch of them here and have for several years, and they are trouble-free (and we use them a lot). I was going to cite them as something really good quality from HP.
Re: (Score:2)
The old HP lasers were tanks. There are still many of them in use today. I have an LJ1100 under my desk currently. Have to run it off a network print server now since my new computer doesn't have a parallel port. Ya, it's ancient but it doesn't do stupid crap like a large number of the new HP's. At some point HP when to from a logic in the printer to a logic in the driver model, and everything went downhill from there. A few customers of mine have relitively new HP LaserJets that are useless because they cr
Corporate manuvering (Score:4, Insightful)
More likely they are combining their losers in preparation of either selling them to someone, or spinning them off into their own company.
Putting them together makes jettisoning them at some point easier.
Re:Corporate manuvering (Score:5, Funny)
Exactly! Then, HP can make lots of money selling all of those things they make that aren't PCs or printers!
Re: (Score:1)
Who actually owns a desktop printer these days? (Score:2)
1. I print all work-related documents at work, and my employer provides print resources for mobile workers. That's if I don't just put a presentation or collateral on a tablet and distribute it beforehand via PDF, which is always sexier.
2. There is no need to print photos at home - any print shop will do it cheaper, with less hea
Re: (Score:2)
I have my own desktop printer at home. I use it periodically, it's a useful tool. Maybe it's not cheaper, and maybe not better quality results than using some other service, but it's convenient.
Most of what I'm printing with it is related to my wife's green card application, lots of forms and copies of our documents and things. I could use some other service, but I'd just end up putting it off for weeks on end with "ug, I don't feel like it today, maybe on the weekend" and so forth.
Having my own printer
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Anyone who works from home. Do you really think that traveling between 1-10km to pick up a print job from a copy shop is anywhere near as efficient as just pressing a button and having it come out at your own desk? And in the US, there are not half a dozen copy-shops within 10km, trust me...and the cost per page is much higher. So owning the printer is cheaper AND more time efficient by far.
Anyone with a small business. See above.
Anyone whose children need to submit homework on paper. See above.
Anyone
I do (Score:2)
Ok, I still do print, sign,
Re: (Score:2)
1) Not everyone gets print resources from work
2) While many people prefer old-school, printing on demand instead of making a trip is convenient
3) Not everyone is set up to accept electronic docs. I have had to print, sign, fax several times in the past 2 months
4) 10km is a lot to go out of your way
In short, your life seems to have a natural lack of requirement for a printer. And your built in assumptions suggest that you know why someone might need one, but you assume that somehow your circumstance applie
Re: (Score:2)
My wife prints photos on occasion but I've printed docs maybe twice in the past year. The need to have a printer is definitely diminishing.
re: what I use our desktop printer for (Score:2)
I understand why you'd ask ... but I still find a desktop printer fairly useful. I don't print very often, so I actually prefer a good networked color laser that all the machines on my home LAN can share. (With a laser, the toners don't "dry out" if they're not used quickly enough and they don't clog up like the inkjets do.)
I get the most use out of my printer doing things related to my side business of on-site computer service/consulting. For example, I usually print out my own invoices, in advance, when I
Re: (Score:2)
#1 Print resources for mobile workers? You're lucky and must not live in the States as here, your employer damn near charges you for any printing. Enjoy it while you can.
#2 I'll give you this one if your looking for a quality print and yes it's actually cheaper but I can do it at the local drugstore/Walmart
#3 That all depends on whether the sender doesn't need it notarized and didn't use the digital signature feature of Acrobat. If they did, you wont be able to add a signature to the file as their system wi
hrumph. (Score:2)
State of HP (Score:2, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
It'd be bad enough to have a networked printer that can be DoSed with correctly crafted malicious input; but a networked printer that can be DoSed with input from its own
Whitman (Score:2)
Didn't they learn from Fiorina fiasco?
Two wrongs don't make a right (Score:2)
I've now observed the computer industry for some decades, and I think this move by HP is a loser. Two wrongs don't make a right. If the PC division was not profitable on its own, combining it will only make it less efficient.
HP's PC business is in trouble because the Windows ecosystem is broken [chron.com]. The last HP PC I saw had 2 hrs worth of spyware removal, old drivers, no customization to make it easy for the user, 200 programs in the start menu, and annoying registration pop-ups. Although I will never trust Cup
Re: (Score:2)
Go to a Microsoft store, if you can find one. All the machines they sell are crapware free, and they have a wide selection of popular hardware. Check it out online if you have to, but I highly recommend it.
Re: (Score:3)
"All the machines they sell are crapware free"...errr...they have Windows on them, don' they?
Re: (Score:2)
Relatively speaking, of course. :)
'cause they're the same, aren't they? (Score:2)
We're merging the PC and printer divisions because, they're, like, one product, you know?
They both plug in to the wall.
They both plug into the network.
So they're the same thing. :P
photography and typewriters (Score:2)
In other news, Polaroid has purchased Smith Corona and will be merging instant film cameras with the venerable typewriter to create a new streamlined company and product, the PhotoWriter!
Hmm (Score:2)
I have nothing but a facepalm for this news.
Re: (Score:3)
Correction, HP used to make good products period. Not so much anymore... they are simply a commodity manufacturer that goes for the lowest manufacturing cost. Last time I opened up an HP PC, it was like "seriously, this is supposed to be well built?".
Re: (Score:2)
they are simply a commodity manufacturer
I thought they were merely importers and resellers and marketers? Are they even up to the level of "box stuffers"?
Re: (Score:2)
Yep, even their printers are now crap. We have an old 8150, wonderful machine, built to outlast the cockroaches after Armageddon. we also have a relatively new P4515....well, it does print and it is fast. But given the quality of the build, I give a few years before it is a doorstop. The 8150 is over 10 years old.
Re: (Score:2)
It's been like that for many years. Commodity Dell and Compaq boxes have been made by Asus or Acer forever. I don't think that changed after HP took over Compaq.
Re:Sad (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:1)
Re:Sad (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Epson's piezo heads are in just about every high end commercial inkjet these days because they're easier to control (which led to variable droplet tech), and they don't suffer the same damage from solvent inks, meaning output done with mild solvents don't need the UV treatment aqueous inks do. HP does have some high end solvent and latex machines, but those are designed
Re:printers (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
But given that a LaserJet 4 lasted for about a decade there is no ongoing volume without consumer crap with built-in obsolescence.
Re: (Score:2)
The hardware may be good.
But I haven't owned a HP printer that came without the gigantic headache of HP software.