FDA Approves Self-Sanitizing Keyboard 185
jfruhlinger writes "Deep down, most people know that the germiest thing they touch all day is the thing they're touching all day: their keyboard. But what, if anything, can be done about it? A couple of former Microsoft hardware guys have launched a keyboard that sterilizes itself via ultraviolet light. While the FDA has signed off on it, tests show that the UV only kills about two-thirds of the germs living in it, and that it still needs to be cleaned by hand."
Can't wait to see... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Can't wait to see... (Score:5, Insightful)
Why use UV? Why not build a waterproof keyboard that gets sprayed with a disinfectant each time it is retracted? It could be quickly dried and the disinfectant recycled.
For a lower-cost keyboard, I could see UV being an advantage. But for $900, you could do much better.
Re:Can't wait to see... (Score:5, Informative)
Just make it with the same antibacterial metal that door handles in hospitals are made from. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimicrobial_copper-alloy_touch_surfaces [wikipedia.org]
Seems to be a tried and testing technology that works well.
Re:Can't wait to see... (Score:5, Insightful)
That is exactly what I was thinking. All metals have significant antibacterial properties in pure form due to electron freedom. Stainless steel is similarly naturally antimicrobial.
Since they are using UV, I hope they had the good sense to use a titanium dioxide finish on it as well, since that massively boosts UV efficacy. Actually titanium dioxide has the ability to actually clean small quantities of finger grease and dirt from the surface as well.
The best approach would use a micro spattering of TiO2 (think polka dots smaller than most bacteria) on stainless steel or copper alloys with waterproof keys and construction. Once a month, throw it in the commissary dishwasher to remove dirt and grease which give the little germs homes.
As others have pointed out, the price for this model is ridiculous as well.
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Anybody know can I get stainless steel keycaps for my model M?
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If you could get the quantity up, fully stainless steel parts punched out of sheetstock would probably be doable; but that wouldn't be a 'quantity 1' thing...)
I bet there is actually a sufficient market. The keys would need to be two-piece to be feasibly inexpensive to construct even on a commercial basis. However, the inner piece could be plastic, which I believe could actually make the price quite reasonable.
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Stainless steel is similarly naturally antimicrobial.
No, it's not. Which you'd have known if you'd clicked on the GP's link. From Wikipedia [wikipedia.org]:
Unlike copper alloys, stainless steel (S30400) does not exhibit any degree of bactericidal properties. This material, which is one of the most common touch surface materials in the healthcare industry, allows toxic E. coli O157:H7 to remain viable for weeks.
The GP is also inaccurate in implying that copper alloys are used in all hospitals; this seems to be a relatively recent realization and is only slowly being rolled out.
St. Francis Private Hospital ... decided to become the first hospital in the world to fully specify hygienic copper door handles throughout its facility as part of its infection control program. A full upgrade of all door furniture ... commenced in January 2010.
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It looks like the critical thing in those alloys to make them anti-microbial is copper. So, in other words, copper keyboards. I'd complain that, if it's actually that effective against microbes, it might slowly poison humans as well, except that the water pipes in my home are made of copper, so I doubt that it would contribute very much to any copper poisoning I might be experiencing. As far as it being a tried and tested technology that works well, the article you linked to seems to indicate that the jury
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We have laptops with easy-swap keyboards at my workplace. Said workplace is a school, and the amount of keys pulled off by vandals accounts for a significent part of the IT team's workload. Easy-swap keyboards are a requirement, just due to how often someone utterly de
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But with copper it isn't a problem like it is with iron. When iron rusts, the rusted part expands and flakes off, exposing the next layer so that it can then rust too. The process continues until the whole thing disintegrates. With copper, on the other hand, the corroded outer layer turns green but remains intact, so the item doesn't actually deteriorate.
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Stainless steel is the obvious choice, because as it tarnishes it merely becomes slightly less pretty.
There are also shiny coatings that can be simply BRUSHED ON to metals, which etch the surface. I have been using some stuff lately (Magic rust and aluminum polish, something like that, got it at a yard sale) to remove rust from iron and steel parts and to remove corrosion from aluminum parts. Where the aluminum is pitted, the pits are filled with hard material since the oxide form is harder than the metal.
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Most likely phosphoric acid, sold in gel form as "naval jelly".
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Sounds plausible. I've used naval jelly before, it's pretty fantastic stuff. I haven't tried to find a MSDS for this stuff to find out if you're right. Do they add anything to gel it, or does it just happen?
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Re:Can't wait to see... (Score:5, Informative)
waterproof, sealed, dishwasher safe, antimicrobial keyboards.
http://www.sealshield.com/ [sealshield.com]
$149 with a touchpad vs. $900 because it comes with lights?
Re:Can't wait to see... (Score:4, Interesting)
Not fit for purpose.
The application here is designed to kill MRSA type bugs within 90 seconds and be ready for use.
The lights it comes with will make you blind very quickly, hence the enclosure.
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Couldn't you just use disposable paper keyboard overlays? Make them mostly transparent so you can see the key caps, obviously. They use disposable rolls of paper covers for examination trolleys, and the keyboard itself would be very cheap which is important when one split drink or frustrated heavy keypress can break it.
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But is it FDA approved? Thought so!
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Why not build a waterproof keyboard [...]
If they made a waterproof keyboard, then they would lose the majority of their business.
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Try to track down and check out one of the '80s-'90s era HP industrial keyboards. The tactile feedback sucked, but they were sealed units that could even be spray-washed. You needed sealed units to survive the shop-floor environment for any length of time.
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Of course you'll have to do some serious adaptation to get the proprietary TTY and workstation cables to interface with a PC. The point is, there have been designs that were easier to keep clean in dirty environments.
HP used to make great industrial-grade hardware before they focused on the commercial market. Maybe they still do -- I haven't seen their latest industrial equipment, and a lot of industry just seems to shrug and replace keyboards often instead.
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Of course you'll have to do some serious adaptation to get the proprietary TTY and workstation cables to interface with a PC.
Yeah, that ought to take an experienced hacker with an arduino all of ten minutes to breadboard. Talk about serious adaptation!
Re:Can't wait to see... (Score:4, Insightful)
That which doesn't kill me makes me stronger. Of course, that which doesn't kill the bugs makes them stronger, too. So will the stronger bugs will make me ever more disease resistant, or just kill me?
Re:Can't wait to see... (Score:4, Funny)
That which doesn't kill me makes me stronger. Of course, that which doesn't kill the bugs makes them stronger, too. So will the stronger bugs will make me ever more disease resistant, or just kill me?
They'll first have to get through your tanned and leathery hands.
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I'm pretty sure we don't have to worry about our meager human-produced sources of UV light providing the evolutionary niche for UV resistant super bugs. There's this thing called the sun that puts out a lot of UV light of its own.
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The sun puts out of lot of UV, but the UVC which is used as a germicide is almost entirely blocked by the atmosphere.
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And only UV-A reaches earth and gives you sun burn.
The Earth's ozone layer blocks 99% UV. Of that, 99% is UVA.
Its the UV-B (0.001% of UV that hits earth and reaches the surface) that causes damage on a molecular level. This is bad for big molecules like DNA.
Cells already evolved a repair mechanism for dealing with UV-B to deal with the meagre levels that does reach the surface.
UV-C is even more nasty than UV-B and none of that reaches the Earth's surface at all
These lamps are pumping out UV-C and UV-B to di
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There are some downright alarming extremophiles, that can shrug their teeny bacterial shoulders at gamma radiation, hard vacuums, heat, dessication, and sometimes several of the above at the same time; but those tend to be virtually irrelevant to human health because so much of thei
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the UV tolerant bugs evolving on this thing.
UV has been used to sterilize a wide variety of things since that ability was discovered in 1906 (IIRC).
Some bugs are more tolerant than others; but it doesn't seem to have caused a sufficient evolutionary pressure to cause "UV-resistant" germs, molds or viruses.
$900?! (Score:5, Insightful)
It's $900?! Geez.. Why don't I just buy new keyboards every 3 months instead
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But also, one can get a UV sanitizing wand for as little as $10.
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It's $900 because it's FDA approved and they want to sell it to governments.
Next up: $3600 toilet seats with UV sanitizers.
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I'm not familiar with any environment or department which even suggests an FDA approved keyboard, much less mandates one. I could see an Underwriter's Laboratory approved keyboard, as they handle safety evaluations for electrical and electronic items in the US.
But think of the market potential if they can buy enough Congressmen to make these mandatory for hospitals and doctors offices, or even better yet, convince the INSURANCE companies to mandate them to minimize the risk of malpractice lawsuits.
Ah,
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I would like to see a study on the effects of keyboard germs to health.
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Or why not just buy your own keyboard and never clean it? You're not going to pick up contagious diseases from yourself. Besides, a pristine environment is good for your immune system.
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Sorry, that should be: "a pristine environment is bad for your immune system."
Who cleans their keyboard? (Score:3)
Surely it's just exercise for the immune system?
Most folks seem to have had a white keyboard, seen how filthy it becomes over time and (instead of cleaning the damn thing) resolved to use black ones in future.
That said I did used to clean the key covers for my old Model M with vodka every once in a while.
Re:Who cleans their keyboard? (Score:4, Informative)
The black ones turn just as gross: Take one apart sometime and have a look inside.
The wife's WoW-playing machine slowly developed some issues with the W and 2 keys on her fancy Saitek keyboard. It was really pretty nasty in there. Some scrubbing bubbles [scrubbingbubbles.com] for the external plastic bits, and a bit of Deoxit [caig.com] on the Mylar membrane switches, and she's got people asking her what she changed because her DPS went through the roof.
I take apart my favorite keyboard (an old, heavy, squishy white NMB that I really like the key-feel of, Model M be damned) once every year or two and give everything but the keyswitches a good wash in the dishwasher. It's been a good friend for nearly a decade, despite the occasional spill or cigarette ash or the constant bombardment of smoke residue, and I want to keep it around. (The keycaps were worn smooth long ago...)
So, yeah: I clean keyboards. Time is money, but money can't always buy a keyboard that I actually like. It's more of a functional thing than a spastic reaction to the obvious bacterial flora that obviously must be living on it, but whatever the case cleaning it helps me type in ways that keep me happy.
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The black ones turn just as gross
Well obviously they get dirty to, they aren't magic... but you have to go out of your way to see it. The point he was referring to which you missed is that by getting a black keyboard you don't see filth.
Re:Who cleans their keyboard? (Score:4, Insightful)
That said I did used to clean the key covers for my old Model M with vodka every once in a while.
I'd rather leave the keyboard alone and just disinfect my insides every so often - although I prefer gin rather than vodka.
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i remember at one place I worked I loved my keyboard , but it eventually became so grimy they forced me to throw it away and get a new one. Hey I was only one who used it!!!!
My last job I did a lot of ProTools editing on computers shared by all the audio team. We kept hand sanitizer next to the computer, but it still would get grimy. When I got bad I would just disconnect the KB and get some q-tips, tissues, and denatured alcohol. KB would clean up real nice and the alcohol evaporates fast so even if I
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Alcohol works very well, that is why there is little risk of bacteria developing a resistance to it.
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Alcohol works very well, that is why there is little risk of bacteria developing a resistance to it.
Even the yeast that make the stuff actually get killed by it.
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I am not a doctor, but IMHO, most of the bacterias on the keyboard of your personal computer are _yours_ bacterias, meaning they came from your body, your sweat and you are used to it. So I don't think they will do much harm to yourself, unless your immune system is borked somehow. Of course, a dirty keyboard is still need to be cleaned, so it won't look too bad, or become a colony to bad germs.
And yeah, this only apply to your personal keyboard, mean no one else but you touch it. Or maybe keyboard sharing
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That said I did used to clean the key covers for my old Model M with vodka every once in a while.
Was the vodka 'recycled'?
So... (Score:4, Insightful)
So is this going to kick into the new phase of products that help create resistances like tricloscan [nih.gov] does [liebertonline.com] now? And I'm being lazy, there's already a few hundred studies on the links of this. I'm still waiting for people to get it through their head that either we're filthy dirty creatures, living in a filthy dirty environment. And if you're going to sanitize an area, you need to be 100% sure you're getting everything. Otherwise you're simply kicking into darwin mode, and promoting survival instincts for various 'bugs'.
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there is a difference that you're ignoring here. You're talking about an anti-bacterial drug resistance, which is a terrible, tough thing to deal with. Those fundamentally target only anti-bacterial cells based off of the certain cell structure. It means that it's very effective at killing only the bad cells, and it leaves our bodies alone. UV (and say, alcohol based hand sanatizers) is a very powerful anti-bacterial, because UV radiation is very damaging at the cellular level, regardless of whether or
so wait (Score:2)
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Like most people. I only ever upend my keyboard when there is a stable stuck under a key.
Including a horse?
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If cleanliness is the goal, surely a traditional keyboard is completely the wrong design. Touchscreen would be ideal and easy to clean with an inexpensive wipe. Who requires a high level of cleanliness but uses a keyboard enough that a traditional keyboard is required? Do neurosurgeons have their personal assistants 'take letters' during surgery?
Not familiar with computerized medical records, are we?
But are those germs dangerous? (Score:4, Interesting)
"...While the FDA has signed off on it, tests show that the UV only kills about two-thirds of the germs living in it, and that it still needs to be cleaned by hand."
Given that we as human beings are full of germs of some kind (especially on the skin), I wonder whether the germs on these keyboards are germs one should worry about.
Are they dangerous?
My answer: Not really, because no epidemic has ever been reported as having had its genesis from an un-cleaned keyboard. I have a feeling that these keyboards will appeal to clean-freaks mostly.
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I don't know about that. I would suggest that spending to much time in front of a dirty keyboard has led to an epidemic of obesity, social awkwardness, and unnatural obsession with Natalie Portman. That's just apocryphal, of course.
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Agreed, this kind of product is exploitative of people with irrational phobias. These individuals need to realise that every surface in the average office is covered with other people's sweat, urine, semen and maybe blood. Dangerous? No. Gross? Only if you think about it too much.
What isn't safe is living in a germ-free bubble.
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MRSA [wikipedia.org] is a slightly evolved version of a normal skin baterie. It doesn't do much on the skin, but when it gets into the blood people can die of it.
MRSA is only one of the many bacteria that are harmless when on the skin (actually: many are usefull in the defence against germs that can go through the skin) but many of them are a big problem when they get in the bloodstream. Normally the human immune response kills them, but in hospitals there are (typically) a lot of people whith
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Keyboards? No. However, I've heard of entire civilizations being wiped out due to lack of sanitized phones.
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The application of this is more of a chair-swapping setup, for example a call center where someone works 8 hours at a station and goes home, and someone else uses the same station for 8 hours, and someone else comes in. You don't want to catch cold/flu from someone else, and you definitely don't want MRSA. Disinfecting between swaps, even if it only removes some of the germs, will go a long way towards keeping employees in their seats in stead of out sick.
And hospitals probably, libraries, and the germoph
"and that it still needs to be cleaned by hand" (Score:2)
wait do regular keyboards need to be cleaned?
I thought you were supposed to just buy a new $7 keyboard when it got too gross to use.
Hooray! (Score:2)
Sanitary spec (Score:4, Funny)
obligatory XKCD (Score:4, Funny)
I use a 1992 Model M (Score:2)
you know what keeps a keyboard clean
wash your fucking hands once in a while!
I "wash" my vintage murder weapon once every couple of years, my wife's standard membrane shit gets replaced every year if not sooner (really what does a decent modern keyboard cost today, like 10 bucks at the local computer store? 3 bucks for a shitty one?)
Its really not that difficult people, your computer will function with a keyboard that did not come stock with it.
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That's exactly what I do. Wash hands.
Perfect UV 'cleaner'? (Score:2)
http://www.amazon.com/Verilux-CleanWave-VH01WW4-UV-C-Sanitizing/dp/B0018A330K/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1325745037&sr=8-4 [amazon.com]
My question is how much more powerful can we make these. I understa
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its not really power its wavelength...
A germicidal bulb will start burn your skin and eyes you before you could fart, and those are little 10-20 watt florescent models with quartz tubes, prolonged exposure will blind you and start to really screw up your skin.
which you really dont want spread all over your keyboard, where most geniuses couldn't find the freaking return/enter key without staring at it for a good 45 seconds
I powered a small 15 watt germacidal bulb that was intended to be used buried inside of
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If that's not good enough, then it could even detect if there wasn't a surface within an inch or two of the device and would then automatically shut itse
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What's wrong with soap and water?
They're YOUR germs... (Score:2)
Unless you happen to be using a public keyboard, these are going to be germs from YOUR body. If they were going to be a problem, then they already would be. Washing your OWN hands would be a lot more effective.
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Unless you happen to be using a public keyboard, these are going to be germs from YOUR body. If they were going to be a problem, then they already would be.
Stick your finger in your bum, wiggle it around real good, then stick it in your mouth. They are YOUR germs from YOUR body, but that still doesn't mean they won't make you sick.
Washing your OWN hands would be a lot more effective.
One not-yet-discredited (I think) theory is that some auto-immune diseases are caused (or triggered) by the allergen getting somewhere it shouldn't, causing an exaggerated immune response. One my my kids has coeliac disease, and there is some speculation that this is triggered in some cases by repeated exposure to other parts of the
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Actually you're fairly unlikely to get sick from your own feces, that doesn't make it less gross though.
BSoD! (Score:3)
Did I get to say it first??? Ex-Microsoft employees build a useful Blue Screen of Death!
Isopropanol (Score:3)
Just buy some 99.9% pure isopropanol and some distilled water. 5L cost like 10-15EUR here and last a long time.
Then submerge the keyboard or spray it with a 70-80% isopropanol/distilled water solution and let it dry.
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60-70% IPA actually kills bugs better than pure, which is why the stuff at the drug store is usually 70%. I've heard two explanations why: #1, it doesn't coagulate the proteins at the surface as much and therefore does a better job getting inside the critters; #2, it evaporates an order of magnitude slower, whereas 100% disappears from your skin or the surface being cleaned within seconds.
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I've heard this many times, too, and yet, 91% (the normal high-proof isopropyl that we get around here) stings in cuts more than 70% does.
Also, it would seem that higher proof alcohols, rather than isotonic, would serve to dehydrate a bacterium and thus kill it better.
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Pain receptors are on membranes, so that's consistant with anhydrous alcohol dehydrating the top layer more powerfully. Your sensation of pain doesn't necessarily mean it's damaging the tissue, just activating the receptors on the surface.
Also, 70% alcohols are still dehydrating enough to kill bacteria. We use 50% isopropanol in the lab to precipitate DNA. The alcohol literally strips the solvating water molecules away from the DNA, causing them to aggregate and precipitate. I'd say that would be prett
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Disassemble it using your 7/32" nut driver (buy online, it's an uncommon size) and run everything but the circuit board through the dishwasher. Enclose the key caps in a basket so they don't end up melted by the heater.
Works remarkably well and doesn't take the print off the keys, either. Use alcohol to clean the board. It will have some crumbs on it, mostly, unless you spill liquids into the keyboard.
Serious question: have you actually done this? How do you keep the keys oriented the right direction in the dishwasher so they don't come out upside down full of water and gunk?
Extended warranty? How can I lose? (Score:2)
Like those disinfectant wipes you find in the supermarket that say "Kills 99.9% of Germs," this is something for idiots.
What? The FDA? (Score:2)
No one else seems to have asked the question: Why is the Food and Drug Administration even involved? Keyboards are not food, and UV is not a drug. The company intends to use the FDA approval (of what, exactly?) to to leverage this this $900 idiocy into hospitals.
Did you know: many keyboards do just fine in the dishwasher, as long as you let them dry thoroughly afterwards. For those that don't? You can destroy a lot of normal keyboards before spending $900 for a gimmick.
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Did you know: many keyboards do just fine in the dishwasher,
So what we need is some certification that a particular keyboard is 'dishwasher safe'.
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Because the FDA does far more than just food and drugs. Medical devices for example. Radiation emitting devices for example.Cosmetics for example.
And obviously company wants to sell the things to hospitals, where putting the keyboard into the dishwasher after every 2 minute use isn't exactly practical.
Go Steampunk, Go Copper! (Score:2)
Not your keyboard. (Score:2)
Most likely the "germiest" thing you touch is your mouth. That's where the "germs" on your keyboard come from. Even the most fastidious of you are quite literally crawling with bacteria.
Our war on germs will kill us (Score:2)
Patented Over a Decade Ago (Score:2)
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It makes sense that these are meant for hospitals. Anything that can be done to improve the sanitation there is a good thing.
I've been using the same keyboard for over 10 years now. I shudder to think how germy it is. Mostly I just turn it upside down and whack it to get the Cheetos crumbs out. Occasionally I use alcohol to clean off the grime, looks like it's about time to do it again.
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hospitals should just use a keyboard cover and the cleaning lady should clean that with disinfectant.
900 bucks buys like all the keyboards in the hospital. but buy a 100 fancykeyboards at 900 a pop..
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I've never seen a keyboard cover that's as easy to use as just a plain keyboard. Also it's better to have continuous cleaning. Apparently the keyboard retracts into its UV lit box whenever it is not in use. Waving your hand over it causes the keyboard to pop back out. If they start selling the price will probably come way down. Under $200 a pop I imagine. Still expensive but affordable in the right situations.
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We're talking about something for use at hospitals. Guess where those immune deficient 1% you mention are likely to be...
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Is anyone on record of having died from a dirty keyboard? I never heard of it. Germs are rarely dangreous. What about when you walk out your door into the coutryside, no one ever sterilises that. If we follow the logic behind this, we should sterilise that to.
google [google.com.au] agrees with you.
"died from a dirty telephone" only gives HHGTTG references. Even "died from a dirty toilet" scores only 6 results, and most of those seem to be people asking if anyone died that way.
I guess germs aren't that dangerous after all... or they are so dangerous that nobody lived to blog about it ;)
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Because when somebody dies from a flu-pnemonia one-two we record the death as "died from door knob" or "died from Bill's cough", right?
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Yet one more reason to legalize hookers.
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Excellent excuse to keep a couple of bottles in my desk at work.
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> Does no-one proof-read this stuff?
Yes. You do.