Self-Contained PC Liquid Coolers Explored 86
MojoKid writes "Over the last few years an increasing number of liquid coolers have been positioned as high-end alternatives to traditional heatsink and fan combinations. This has been particularly true in the boutique and high-end PC market, where a number of manufacturers now offer liquid coolers in one form or another. These kits are a far cry from the water coolers enthusiasts have been building for years. DIY water coolers typically involve separate reservoirs and external pumps. The systems tested here, including Intel's OEM cooler that was released with their Sandy Bridge-E CPU, contain significantly less fluid and use small pumps directly integrated into the cooling block as a self-contained solution. Integrated all-in-one kits may not offer the theoretical performance of a high-end home-built system, but they're vastly easier to install and require virtually no maintenance. The tradeoffs are more than fair, provided that the coolers perform as advertised."
Combination (Score:4, Funny)
When will we see the office PC combined with the coffee machine?
Re: (Score:2)
Or perhaps with an ice-cream sandwich maker, to mention the Slashdot article two stories prior to this one...
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Prognosis not good. The technology is just moving in the wrong direction. It's now commonplace to get PCs without cupholders [catb.org].
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
I have a (Hyper 212 Plus) which is very similar to the N520, it's the size of the radiators used by these liquid coolers and it has amazing cooling ability. Even without fan it keeps CPU at only a few degrees above room temperature.
The only problem with these is that they take up a huge amount of real estate on the motherboard, making it hard to work around it. But in terms of cooling, they are much better than liquid coolers and easier to setup and cheaper.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
damned if it hasn't dropped to 84F while still cranking out transcodes!
You must not be using all the cores, as the N520 can only keep a full 125W load at about 20 degrees Celsius over ambient, and I highly doubt that you have your computer in a 50 degree Fahrenheit room.
Run something like Prime 95 with 6 threads and see how it heats up.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Don't have the 125w friend, I have the 95w 1035t. I just did as you suggested, Prime 95 64bit let it run for about 15 minutes and it maxed out at 97. I could hear the fans kick up when it did but that was it Once i killed the test it dropped down to 73f in less than 2 minutes which is damned near room temp in my apt.
For a 95W part, 15 degrees C over ambient is about right for that cooler, but the 212 Plus is still about 4 degrees better for the same price.
Re: (Score:3)
I have a (Hyper 212 Plus) which is very similar to the N520, it's the size of the radiators used by these liquid coolers and it has amazing cooling ability.
The N520 performs quite a bit worse than the Hyper 212 Plus. It was a step backward for Cooler Master. For the numbers of damn near every heatsink, see FrostyTech [frostytech.com]. They never drop heatsinks off their comparison, so the latest review always gives the full picture.
Although it's a little pricier now than when I bought, the Zaward Vapor 120 is the best under $50 heatsink by far, but the 212 Plus at $26 [macmall.com] is definitely worth it, and makes me wonder why the $34 at best N520 even exists.
Re: (Score:2)
I am a computer and coffee nerd, so:
The optimal temperature for brewing coffee is somewhere between 92 and 96C. That's way too high for a CPU. CPUs specs generally say that the max safe temperature is about 70C, the highest one I've seen is 100C, which would work, but is far too dangerous to operate at continously.
Add to that that unless you're going to be continously brewing coffee you need to exhaust the extra heat at any time you don't need it. And that a water cooling system's water (distilled, probably
Re: (Score:1)
No it's not. Nehalem era CPU are rated to run up to 105C. Sandy Bridge lowered it a bit at 100C but the maximum safe temperature is definitely not ~70C.
Re: (Score:2)
It depends on the CPU. Some AMD ones shut down at 70C [amd.com]
Also, if you need water at 96C, then you have all of 4 to 9 degrees of safety margin before the CPU performs an emergency shutdown, or starts skipping clock cycles. That's a pretty complicated problem: you have to provide just enough cooling at the heat exchanger that the CPU temperature doesn't go over the maximum, while keeping it hot enough for coffee. But cooling effect takes time to affect the CPU, so you may not be able to react fast enough.
Also, yo
Re: (Score:3)
Better question... (Score:2)
When will we see PCs, refrigerators, sewers, and other waste heat sources combined with household hydronic heat transfer systems?
Print link (Score:2, Informative)
The money quote (Score:5, Interesting)
"In every cooler we tested, the pump noise was actually louder than the fans when the CPU was idling."
Re:The money quote (Score:4, Interesting)
Re: (Score:1)
Some labs have experimented with solid state pumps using a conductive coolant propelled using an electromagnetic system. Quiet as can be, but the expensive coolant (gallium alloy) renders them cost-prohibative.
Won't a conductive coolant corrode exposed heat sinks faster?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Is there something about water viscosity being too hard to overcome or something?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
then you would call it a heat pipe.
Re: (Score:2)
Heat pipes tend to rely on phase changes and capillary action or gravity to complete a simple refrigeration cycle.
Convection alone would make a pretty weak heat pipe.
Re: (Score:2)
Both water and conductive liquids seem like terrible choices for cooling electronics. A motherboard can be immersed in cooking oil and run fine with no fans. If you want to get fancy you can use fluorinert. A magnesium case like the NeXT would be good for radiating the heat..
Re: (Score:3)
Virtually all cooking oil is far more corrosive than you would want to use with your PC. Mineral oil is probably the best cheap option. In a metal box with a metal lid and no airflow there should be virtually zero fire hazard, but I wouldn't take my word for it. The material of the case is less important than the color; a thin coat of flat black is what's wanted here. You may, however, want to keep a fan and heat sink on some of the components, because you can't count on convection circulating the liquid qu
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:The money quote (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
The reason I went with water cooling wasn't extreme cooling performance, but noise. The CPU fan was fairly quiet but I have a 480GTX GPU that sounded like a jet engine, even when idling. Switching to water cooling eliminated a lot of noise, and I found that the pump noise can be reduced a great deal by mounting it on adhesive foam rather than scre
Re: (Score:2)
"In every cooler we tested, the pump noise was actually louder than the fans when the CPU was idling."
Apparently they didn't test the Corsair H50, the pump is quiet, very quiet once the coolant gets going. The fan on the other hand sounds like a jet taking off all the damn time. The sealed unit coolers have gotten better without a doubt in the last couple of revisions, the H60 was much quieter, the h70 was much cooler the H80 had more function and better cooling and was even quieter, and so on. Same followed with the Antec series, though to point out they're both made by the same company Asetek [asetek.com] I believe
Re: (Score:1)
Funny. I liquid-cool, and the only sound I here are my intake/exhaust fans. The impeller is silent, and the radiator fan is nearly so.
Re: (Score:2)
Your link doesn't work, they probably detect referrer and send user to normal version when link is not clicked from their site.
Re: (Score:1)
You just had to mention "collocation", didn't you?
Re: (Score:1)
I won't buy your replicas unless they come with preinstalled liquid coolers!
Disappointed (Score:1)
I read it as "Self-Contained PC Liquid Coolers Exploded".
Re: (Score:2)
A good idea moving forward (Score:5, Informative)
I've always appreciated Corsair's products; in an industry where the typical MO is to push out the newest widget, sell before everyone forgets about it or gets upstaged, and never look back, they are one of the few companies that seem to understand that you're making an investment with their hardware. For instance, I wrote them a thank-you email after discovering that they offered two Upgrade Kits for their flagship 800D chassis. When the 800D first launched, SATA6 and USB3.0 weren't included. Had this been LianLi or Silverstone they would have released the "801D" and tell you to upgrade by buying a new $200+ chassis. Corsair on the other hand, offered a couple of $10 kits; one a new backplane for the hotswap SATA board, SATA 6.0 compatible and a new front port assembly with USB3.0 support. I have no second thoughts supporting them.
For years those of us trying to make significant overclocks on our PCs, but not wanting to commit to an additional $500 or so in homebuilt liquid cooling, were left to HUGE air coolers that required $80-120 investment, plus fans and cooling paste. These were huge monoliths that were heavy and difficult to install. The advent of the Corsair self-contained coolers is the first "ready for prime-time" solution that fixes this issue. You are given equal or better cooling than high end air at an equal or better price, with a much easier install process. With Sandy Bridge-E and AMD FX, we're just dipping a toe back into the days when serious cooling is necessary to attain a high overclock, so its great that this hardware is maturing now.
For anyone with a high-end air cooler or looking to build a new system and overclock it, these are probably the best off-the-shelf solutions you're going to find these days that don't have the learning curve of building and maintaining a custom-liquid setup and for most people who aren't trying to break records, they'll give you a ton of extra performance through the overclock.
Re:A good idea moving forward (Score:5, Interesting)
Even if you're not overclocking, water cooling is good, especially for GPU heavy machines. There are companies which will assemble a water cooled 3 GPU setup. It looks inside like the kind of system which would be a hassle to do, but paying for it makes it hassle free. They generally have the gamer look which is kind of funny at work, but they work well. They are also very quiet considering the gigantic heat output.
Re:A good idea moving forward (Score:4, Informative)
Even if you're not overclocking, water cooling is good
The mid to high end cooling market gave up on conventional heatsinks ages ago. Nowadays they use either heatpipes or watercooling (the so-called "high end air coolers" are heatpipe based). Conventional heatsinks aren't very good at getting lots of heat out of small spaces.
Both methods can take heat quietly from from a small and/or difficult to cool space (PC expansion cards suck from an air cooling perspective because they the motherboard and the connector plate on adjacent sides) and take it to a large radiator that can be more easilly cooled.
The advantage of heatpipes is you don't need a pump.
The advantage of watercooling is flexibility. Heatpipes tend to be (I don't know if they technically have to be) sealed copper pipes, slight bending is possible but there is little flexibility in the system and so the radiator has to be attatched to the pickup. This isn't a problem for a laptop where custom mounts can be designed in but in a conventional desktop it means you end up with the whole cooling assembly bolted to the heatsink mounts on the motherboard. This is bad for robustness and means you can't easilly route the heated air directly out of the case.
Sealed unit watercoolers give a bit more flexibility, enough to bolt the radiator to the outside of the case (which is obviously superior to just having it sit above the motherboard.
Full custom water loops are even more flexible but are more expensive and more hassle.
especially for GPU heavy machines.
Agreed, PC expansion slots were simply never designed for good cooling (if they were they would have the backplane opposite the connector plate rather than adjacent to it). So the only way GPU vendors can make a workable integrated cooling system for high power cards is to use a leafblower like setup.
Unfortunately they don't make third party cooling easy either, pretty much every GPU model and sometimes even different cards with the same GPU needs a different waterblock so you are unlikely to see sealed unit watercooling for GPUs.
They are also very quiet considering the gigantic heat output.
Probablly about a kilowatt or so at most. That is like a fan heater on it's low setting, it's not that gigantic really.
Re: (Score:2)
Heatpipes tend to be (I don't know if they technically have to be) sealed copper pipes, slight bending is possible but there is little flexibility in the system and so the radiator has to be attatched to the pickup. This isn't a problem for a laptop where custom mounts can be designed in but in a conventional desktop it means you end up with the whole cooling assembly bolted to the heatsink mounts on the motherboard. This is bad for robustness and means you can't easilly route the heated air directly out of the case.
I recall reading about a laptop design where heatpipes went from the CPU to the back of the display, for a larger cooling area. I imagined there would be a hinge-like joint with two solid pipes, but even then it didn't seem too robust. Heatpipes need to be sealed and solid, because they need to work at a specific pressure, so even a flexible tube might distort it. The wick for returning fluid might also be a problem in a flexible tube.
Re: (Score:1)
All these fancy coolers (Score:2, Insightful)
And you still use your computer to read Slashdot all day.
Why IBM returns to water cooling for mainframes (Score:5, Interesting)
Even IBM is returning to water cooling for their mainframes: http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9183068/Water_cooling_returns_to_IBM_mainframe [computerworld.com]
The reasons:
. . . IBM saw fit to offer water cooling to help reduce overall data center cooling needs . . . the optional water cooling system can improve overall environmental needs by about 12%, which may help some IT managers "squeeze the last piece of floor space in before they go buy a new data center . . . Water is more efficient than air in removing heat . . .
Need a reason to justify the higher cost of your PC? Hey, it's "green" . . . !
. . . and my data center is getting full . . . I constantly trip over USB cables when I get up off the sofa . . .
for data centers will a big common water system (Score:2)
for data centers will a big common water system work good vs small blocks in each box?
Re: (Score:2)
All in one (Score:2)
Re:All in one (Score:4, Insightful)
I see a few advantages of sealed unit watercoolers compared to their heatpipe based competition
1:they tend to be smaller and lighter
2: there is some flexibility in radiator placement (good for those building small form factor systems)
3: they exhaust the CPU heat straight out of the case from the rad rather than relying on general case airflow to take it out
4: a large portion of their weight is mounted on the case rather than the motherboard. That means less risk of damage when moving the machine.
Re: (Score:1)
Only downside I've had from liquid cooling is that the fscking radiator needs to be dusted on a nearly weekly basis.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I see a few advantages of sealed unit watercoolers compared to their heatpipe based competition
1:they tend to be smaller and lighter 2: there is some flexibility in radiator placement (good for those building small form factor systems) 3: they exhaust the CPU heat straight out of the case from the rad rather than relying on general case airflow to take it out 4: a large portion of their weight is mounted on the case rather than the motherboard. That means less risk of damage when moving the machine.
A few tweaks to your points...
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I paid $20 for a Hyper TX3 [coolermaster-usa.com] and I have my Phenom II X3 720 oc'd from 2.8 to 3.4, which wouldn't run reliably on the stock cooler. I don't know if that was a sale price or what but I am quite happy. I have a bunch of fans in my system but I can still hear the CPU fan when I am using the CPU, not so much otherwise. Maybe the additional $15 was spent making it quieter :)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
It's about 70 in here and my CPU is 85, so a little warmer. But I should probably do a dusting in my PC.
Re: (Score:2)
I'm fairly pleased with my current rig, although the two fans on the Noctua NH-D14 are noticeable when I turn off my air filter (I smoke). Video card is a MSI 460GTX and it's fan is relatively quiet - but then the most demanding things I run these days is Civ V and Silent Hunter IV with mostly default settings at whatever resolution fits in a window.
1090T is running stock (and if I remember correctly, cool&quiet and turbo are enabled), worldcommunitygrid is set to run all cores 100%, system is fast and
Re: (Score:2)
Are you sure am3 cpus are discontinued? Google is only turning up rumors and nothing official from AMD to include second hand quotes.
Re: (Score:2)
That is old school. (Score:2)
Nobody uses water any longer. Oil [youtube.com] is silent and more efficient.
They did? (Score:4, Funny)
For me, not needed (Score:1)
Meh, I read "exploded"! (Score:2)
That would have been a headline.
I've had one for a while (Score:1)
I did it for one reason: less noise. My case already had a 120mm exhaust fan, so I simply added the radiator to the back of it, eliminating one fan from the case altogether. The fact that the radiator is the last thing exhaust air sees means very little CPU heat is being relieved inside the case.
My i960 is clocked at 4GHz and I see a water temp of about 40C at idle at 50C at full load, and the case is nearly silent with the exhaust fan on low (3-speed Antec fan).
I don't get it (Score:2)
Asetek specifies a Rth of 0.124 K/W for the 570LC [asetek.com]. While official values are hard to find, for a high end air cooler like the NH-D14, frostytech found 11.2 K [frostytech.com] rise above ambient for 125 W, which is 0.09 K/W - with (slow) stock fans. So you'll need a 240mm cooler like the H100, which is only slightly better, or something like the EPIC 180, which is not available standalone, to get better than air cooling. Or you can strap more powerful fans on the NH-D14, which is what I did.
There must be a reason why I have
Re: (Score:2)