BendDesk Merges Computer, Monitor and Desk 152
cylonlover writes "Researchers from Aachen University's Media Computing Group have created a computer workstation called the BendDesk where the desk and screen are transformed into one multi-touch display. The display is curved at the middle and uses infrared emitters and cameras to track user movement over the whole of the surface, which has its graphical user interface beamed onto it by a couple of short throw projectors hidden within its wooden frame."
Awesome for the disorganized (Score:5, Funny)
PEBCAK (Score:3)
I hope they don't merge the chair right in, otherwise we'll have to say problem is intermelded with chair, keyboard, and desk!
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Sitting on a touch sensitive surface? imagine the applications... oh... right... pr0n.
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Until someone tricks you into, say, one guy one jar...
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I hope they don't merge the chair right in, otherwise we'll have to say problem is intermelded with chair, keyboard, and desk!
Horatio Cane prefers to stand while flinging photos and zooming into a reflection bouncing off of spent brass ejecting from the suspect's Glock to count the warts on the suspect cheek from behind, and across the street.
Does it come with sunglasses?
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Generally prototypes are so polished and finalized, they aren't even prototypes anymore. They are more like "2 seconds away from production" prototypes.
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I always have to keep ONE desktop clean. When I'm at work, I've got shortcuts to all these various spreadsheets, random applications, little batch files, it's a mess all over. My actual work desk has to remain clean so my boss isn't embarassed when the CEO comes by for a chat.
At home, I've got maybe 8 or so icons for the rudimentary stuff, everything else can be accessed via some hotykey combination or is pinned to the task bar or something - so the desktop wallpaper is clear and visible at all times. Howev
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My actual work desk has to remain clean so my boss isn't embarrassed when the CEO comes by for a chat.
I have two offices for that.
1 clean office with windows.
1 complete cluster crap where real work get's done, that's in the Old server room with the elevated floor and 2 workbenches.
I am NEVER in my office except for holidays when nothing is getting done or for the dog and pony show, those are the days I come in a suit and tie.
My other office when asked when I will clean it I always ask back, Any time you w
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1 complete cluster crap where real work get's done, that's in the Old server room with the elevated floor and 2 workbenches.
These neat freaks are being silly.
What next, are they going to tell their heart surgeon to make sure all the scalpels and other surgery tools are in their respective drawers during the operation, so that the work environment is totally neat and tidy?
There's a difference between clean and neat. There's a difference between organized and tidy.
Fugly (Score:4, Funny)
They need to work on the carpentry of the desk before they sell very many. It looks like something an eighth grader might construct. It looks like a programming project (measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with a chain saw). It definately needs asthetic attention.
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Re:Fugly (Score:4, Insightful)
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Just because it's a prototype doesn't mean it should be constructed sloppily.
Re:Fugly (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Fugly (Score:5, Interesting)
Well, yes and no. The paradigm the developers went in with was thrown out. But continued reading shows that they ended up with new ideas - ones that don't necessarily change the bent desk paradigm, but merely how to present a useful UI projected on to it. The examples included a docking bar put on the curve, or temporary storage of icons/windows. It's this type of real-world-ish feedback that makes prototypes so useful.
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This does make me wonder if anyone's made a camera based multi-touch display using a standard LCD display minus the ba
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You're going to have a hard time accurately picking up fingertip touches through all that LCD screen.
Re:Fugly (Score:4, Insightful)
Did you just say "feasibility of the usage paradigm" and mean it?
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What's wrong with "feasibility of the usage paradigm", except for the fact that it's the sort of writing you see in scientific, marketing, and government reports? I agree that "useability" would have been far more concise, but if she has to write that sort of jargon on a daily basis, it's hard to skip to a more readable 8th grade level. She may well nbe an astrophysicist or a grad student.
I'd rather see writing like that than "LOL, this design iz 2 hrd 2 reed".
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I've spoken with grad students, and doctors of various fields. Most of them tend to be quite well spoken and can convey their meaning with negligible marketspeak and only use jargon where no common word is proper. Ten minutes talking with them conveys more information in a more readily understandable form than an hour with anyone that says "feasibility of the usage paradigm" when they mean "usability of the concept".
The difference between marketspeak and jargon is that marketspeak uses large words and phras
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Most of them tend to be quite well spoken and can convey their meaning with negligible marketspeak and only use jargon where no common word is proper.
yes, but people generally don't speak like they write. How many people (over twelve) do you hear saying "LOL"?
The difference between marketspeak and jargon is that marketspeak uses large words and phrases to cover a lack of information while jargon uses different words and phrases to compact information more precisely into less space.
I'll never forget one repo
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It's bad writing. It's vague and carries little to no meaning.
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What's wrong with "feasibility of the usage paradigm", except for the fact that it's the sort of writing you see in scientific, marketing, and government reports?
It's bad writing. It's vague and carries little to no meaning.
OP could have written "the practicality of the design in terms of the use expected to be made of it" or something, but it's longer and conveys no more precise meaning.
Just because on slashdot sight of the word "paradigm" induces reflex reaction of "yuck marketing speak" doesn't mean you can't ever use it.
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It's bad writing.
Agreed. That's why Isaac Asimov, who held a doctorate in biochemistry and researched cancer and taught at Boston University, wrote both his science fiction and nonfiction at an eighth grade level. Note that his research papers were NOT written at an eighth grade level, but at the same post-doctoral level all research is written in.
It's vague and carries little to no meaning.
No it isn't, and no it doesn't. It's perfectly clear and understandable even at an undergrad reading level.
OT, but (Score:2)
To folks who read my journals, the parent poster is NOT the Sam in the journals. So don't give her a hard time, ok?
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This is what we get for cutting (nyuk nyuk) shop classes from school curricula.
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Just because it's a prototype doesn't mean it should be constructed sloppily.
You bring up a great point. Humans are inherently superficial, and will judge the quality of the macro on the visual aesthetic of the micro. Although the way a prototype looks has nothing to do with it's actual function or feasibility, it has a lot to do with whether a project will gain momentum.
As you go up the food chain, there are people who spend less and less time making decisions, based on fewer and fewer data. Really what it boils down to is upper management thinking one of these two things: "Gee,
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On the other hand, I think you're a dick.
Why?
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On the other hand, I think you're a dick.
Why?
It was mostly for a comedic counterpoint. Agreeing with you with eloquence and disagreeing with juvenile coarseness.
It was also partially for propagating human foible of focusing on the way things look, rather than the way they work.
If it caused you distress, then I truly am regretful and apologized. It was meant to be an exaggerated affront.
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No distress, just curiosity. Lots of people don't like me. There's only one guy in my freaks list that I even have the slightest idea why they're there, and I wonder about it.
No keyboard (Score:2)
Looks cool, but without a keyboard (and a virtual keyboard is a lousy substitute), I wonder who this is really for. And if the screen is projected, will documents really be readable? A screen this big is either going to have a ridiculously high resolution, or it's just not good enough.
Re:No mouse (Score:2)
I never tried to type quickly on any touchscreen, but I am sure I can learn it.
I'd be more worried about no mouse. What if my task is to drag and drop stuff on the vertical part for 2 hrs (assuming I cannot automate the process)? Then I end up with my arm stretched in front of me for 2 hrs. I think I'll be tired before that time.
Re:No mouse (Score:4, Interesting)
Touchscreen rarely has the necessary responsiveness to enable you to type as you would on a keyboard.
Even writing this, I'm writing 10-15 characters a second, spread all over the keyboard, with only a tiny gap between each. My fingers know when to "bounce" up because they feel the button hit bottom. Touchscreen generally can't handle anywhere near that speed, accuracy, or tactile response (the biggest problem with even the most expensive touchscreens on public display - watch old grannies stab at the thing like it's a disobedient child because it just doesn't feel like the clicks are registering).
It won't work. Won't fly in schools (vertical surface = interference with eye contact and/or that they have to be placed only along the walls, mucky fingers, expensive hardware, etc.). Won't fly in business (two clunky and huge and expensive, RSI would be terrible working at something that physical for 8 hours a day). Won't fly in public kiosks (too pointless when a flat screen would do the same).
And to be honest, why does it have to be curved at all? It could just be two projected displays at right angles and nobody would care.
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And to be honest, why does it have to be curved at all? It could just be two projected displays at right angles and nobody would care.
According to TFA, or TFV, it seems easier to drag documents across when it is curved. Your finger doesn't get stuck in the corner.
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RSI would be terrible working at something that physical for 8 hours a day
I think the opposite would be true. Working at something like that all day might be tiring, but it would be much less repetitive than the tiny, continuous movements imposed on us by keyboards and mice. I think the variation in movements, and the much larger movements, using large muscle groups as well as small muscles, would result in exertion that is much more similar to the work that people did prior to the information age. Not as strenuous as, say, farming, of course, but about as varied.
I also susp
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I never tried to type quickly on any touchscreen, but I am sure I can learn it.
It'll never be the same, though. You don't get the tactile feedback that you get from a real keyboard.
I'd be more worried about no mouse. What if my task is to drag and drop stuff on the vertical part for 2 hrs (assuming I cannot automate the process)? Then I end up with my arm stretched in front of me for 2 hrs. I think I'll be tired before that time.
Good point. The screen/desk/whatever it is is clearly made for dragging stuff. But how ergonomic is it to do that for a long time?
On the other hand, teachers seem to be quite able to draw on a vertical blackboard for a long time.
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It'll never be the same, though. You don't get the tactile feedback that you get from a real keyboard.
Yet. [slashdot.org]
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Iirc, there is research on electrical surfaces that can simulate even something like dragging fingers over fur.
Haptic feedback research is big stuff these days.
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> It'll never be the same, though. You don't get the tactile feedback that you get from a real keyboard.
Mod parent up.
This is the reason a "driving wheel + computer sim" is never close to the real thing. You don't FEEL the G's around a corner, feel when your tires are "about" to lose traction, etc. That said, I love racing sims. ;-)
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This is the reason a "driving wheel + computer sim" is never close to the real thing. You don't FEEL the G's around a corner, feel when your tires are "about" to lose traction, etc. That said, I love racing sims. ;-)
In spite of all this, a force feedback wheel is an ENORMOUS improvement. The closer you get to the real thing, the more of your reflexes you get to use. The first time I did the scandinavian flick on my Driving Force wheel on good old Gran Turismo 2 I got a little giddy.
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In the first place, it's probably designed so that moving your hand would equal moving a mouse. In the second place, painters, sculptors, carpenters, electricians, all sorts of folks use their arms like that all the time. Unless you're handicapped it should be no problem.
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painters, sculptors, carpenters, electricians, all sorts of folks use their arms like that all the time. Unless you're handicapped it should be no problem.
But those people have more flexibility in the way they work on the vertical surface. They don't have to sit on a seat at a fixed distance. They can walk right up to the thing they are working on and get their arms in a comfortable position. Even painters can lean in close when they need to. Few of them work sitting as low as I would type for example.
If I had to sit at a fixed distance I might start to get injuries from overuse.
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What about draftsmen and engineers before we had computers? Drawings, sketches, blueprints?
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My wife has a drafting board right here. Its flat and you can reach over it. More like a tilted table in that you can rest your elbows on it or lean close to the drawing. This L shaped thing can't be used the same way.
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This L shaped thing can't be used the same way.
That sounds like a huge drawback to me. maybe they'll correct that dificiency in the second iteration.
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It probably wouldn't be hard to move that task to the lower plane instead. Also I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to plug a keyboard in and have it sitting on your interactive desk. Seriously, did a touch-screen touch Slashdot as a child or something?
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I have used a similar system [slashdot.org] and I found it indeed quite straining to drag stuff over longer distances for prolonged periods of time. The major issue, though, was not moving stuff within one surface but dragging items up from the horizontal to the vertical surface. It requires a very uncomfortable turning of the hand along the way to get over the curve. So it is not really suited for dragging objects around en masse.
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I have recently used a similar, but subtly different prototype [curve-project.org] at Munich's Ludwig Maximilian University, which essentially links the images of two Full-HD beamers. So yes, documents are perfectly legible even on these surfaces.
At least in the Munich project the touch functionality is offered in addition to mouse and keyboard. It is also possible to use a translucent silicone "keyboard" on the horizontal surface and have the machine project the actual keys onto (or rather, below) it and have the touch surfac
Why stop there? (Score:3, Funny)
Now add to that merger a chair, toilet, and sex robot and you'll have office equipment that will really sell.
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Ummmm ... maybe for home use. But, there's enough nuisances in a cubicle farm without adding either "toilet" or "sex robot".
People on con-calls with hands-free is bad enough -- what you describe is terrifying. I don't want to have to call HR, but ... ;-)
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People on con-calls with hands-free is bad enough -- what you describe is terrifying. I don't want to have to call HR, but ...
...you've placed your order already?
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GO AWAY! BATIN'!
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Now add to that merger a chair, toilet, and sex robot and you'll have office equipment that will really sell.
In fact, forget the chair, toilet, and desk.
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Now add to that merger a chair, toilet, and sex robot and you'll have office equipment that will really sell.
In fact, forget the chair, toilet, and desk.
...but keep the multitouch surface?
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Well a single touch sex robot would be awkward, would it not?
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Right...
If only we could engineer toilet chairs that were capable of magically whisking poo away. Then we'd be onto something.
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why would you need a chair and toilet? =P
I guess it's because one would not want to sit in their own feces.
Poop fascist!
Sounded good .... (Score:2)
It sounded good right up until
I realize it's a prototype, and more will be added, so I'm not gonna kvetch too much about it. But, to be useful, we need to be taking the resolution up to like 8000x8000 or more so it's like tiling a good monitor onto a huge area.
Still, the idea of my desk and monitor all being one big honking surface would be awesome. Although, it would have to be pretty durable to survive coffee, feet,
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oh i think it can handle it:
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Poly(methyl_methacrylate)#Transparent_glass_substitute [wikimedia.org]
and the resolution is limited to the projectors used, iirc.
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But also the back projection idea has to go. In a real office there won't be room for that. I don't think LCDs need to be flat though. Probably expensive to build in a custom shape, but once you get into production they shouldn't be any more expensive than flat ones. I would be interested in a display desk which wraps around the user as well. Maybe a 270 degree curve.
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True, there is nothing that absolutely requires a flat LCD. I'm guessing that the trickiest part would likely be the illumination of the bent portion. It would be a bit challenging to get that to not appear either darker or lighter than the rest of the screen.
The name (Score:3)
Touchscreens vs. Touchless (Score:2)
A touch-free interface seems like it will be the next generation interface. [tested.com]
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Why touch free? Tactile feedback works well.
I still miss clicky keyboard buttons. My old old Compaq had bios that could adjust the sound for the clicking to your preference.
For entering text, you can't beat a real hardware keyboard for accuracy.
Maybe touch screen or touchless makes sense for a few jobs, but for 95% of day-to-day work (email, writing docs, browsing web, entering data) the current standard is pretty close to optimal.
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How do you know that what we have is optimal? Just because a keyboard is fairly fast and is what we have now does not mean it is even remotely close to optimal. For most office tasks it is probably better than touch screens, but that doesn't mean we should stop looking for something to replace it. Maybe it is optimal and we never find a worthy replacement, but we won't know unless we try.
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Haptic feedback works well on my phone. If a way could be found to combine a flexible LCD or OLED display with a Braille output device then I think many interesting things could be possible. You could have your keyboard with tactile feedback and more.
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I'll bet you good money that we'll end up with a mix of gestures plus touch plus keyboard for the home user and gestures plus mouse (or digitizer plus touch) plus keyboard for the professional in the vast majority of cases. Keyboards are cheap and work really well. You will probably see more and more portable computers without them, but most of them will be called "smartphones". It's already getting to the point where you can get a tablet with HDMI output and do real work with them because the tiny mobile p
Upgrade? (Score:2)
What happens when you want to upgrade your computer or display? Do you throw your desk out?
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There might be other applications. I work in air traffic control where console designs last 20 years or so. Monitors cost 80 grand and last five to ten years. Software lead time is four years at least. This integrated UI looks pretty interesting for our use.
It would also be interesting to see mult layer displays to give depth. Say you stack ten transparent layers so an object can have ten pixels depth.
Prior Art (Score:2)
Doesn't anyone research prior art anymore? They hardly invented or discovered a new idea.
Try the IBM 7090 desk console.
Bad picture at wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_7090 [wikipedia.org]
But if you google image search for it you'll find much cooler pix
Personally I always thought the 7090 was the pinnacle of gaudiness and I prefer the stylish neo-victorian look of the 701 series and the modern post WWII look of the System/370, which shows obvious stylistic cross pollination with ST:TOS. But to each their own.
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Doesn't anyone research prior art anymore? They hardly invented or discovered a new idea.
Try the IBM 7090 desk console.
Wait! You're claiming that a row of giant toggle switches and a handful of indicator lamps is prior art for a curved full color multi-touch display device?
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Doesn't anyone research prior art anymore? They hardly invented or discovered a new idea.
Try the IBM 7090 desk console.
That's as close to being prior art as the first caveman who realized that when he got to the corner of the cave he could keep painting on the next wall. Rotate 90 degrees and there is your prior art...literally.
Wiimote + projector (Score:2, Interesting)
Not ergonomic at all (Score:2)
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You won't get this until the tech is cheaper. Picture a drafting table being used for physical work, you sweep everything off to one side and underneath it is a digital display. But they won't be cheap enough (or, apparently, durable enough... but maybe gorilla glass?) for that for some time yet.
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That doesn't make sense. With this, you have to look at your hands as they will be in direct contact with the part of the screen that you are interested in. Either you have the screen flat on the desk in which case you are constantly looking almost straight down or you have them both vertical in front of you which means keeping your arms raised for extended periods of time. Or you do what Errol suggests and have them both in an ergonomically friendly goldilocks angle. Rather than book stands and writing tab
1990s touchscreens called... (Score:2, Informative)
See also... (Score:2)
... Starfire [asktog.com], a project by Bruce Tognazzini from 1992 when he was working at Sun. (He had previously been the founder of the Human Interface Group at Apple.)
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Watch that movie and mod parent up !
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Not to diss you, because that is exactly what I thought of to when I saw the headline, but Starfire _is_ mentioned if you Read The Fine Article :-)
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Yeah, I have since had a chance to read it. I saw this while heading out the door and glanced at the pic in TFA but didn't get any further and just wanted to post that link before too many comments came in.
What genius thought of this. (Score:2)
Yes, I want a desk surface that I should not eat on, put heavy items (stapler, phone, stack of 100 DVDS).
Yes, I want to pay all that extra money for an under the desk system that projects things onto a clear, fragile screen instead of simply using moding a Kinect or even the ThinkGeek Bluetooth Laser Virtual Keyboard [thinkgeek.com] that I place on top of a regular desk.
The only good thing about this idea is giving me a huge screen, like
Takes up way too much space on the back end... (Score:2)
Notes to computer interface visionaries (Score:2)
If you think that there is something horribly wrong with the way we currently interact with computers, you are wrong.
And if your new paradigm involves getting rid of the keyboard and mouse (trackball, pad, whatever) combo, you have missed the problem so completely that you aren't even wrong any more. Hint: more precision is desired, not less.
I can see this device being useful for a few certain specialized tasks, but not for general computing, and certainly not for any of the examples they listed.
Oh, and i
Amateur Designs in Ivory Towers (Score:2)
Where does work get done these days?
Who is going to throw out all their existing office table and equipment?
How much will it cost?
How do you deal with meetings, work outside the cubicle, out of the office, at job sites, etc.?
There is a reason laptops have risen to the top of the heap.
Laptops are UNIVERSALLY usable.
muscle fatigue obvious - need ergonomics designers (Score:2)
An L-shaped interface has obvious restrictions on how it can be reconfigured.
The photo of the guy in the white t-shirt shows him reaching ahead at full stretch, and in the article they note testers suffered from muscle fatigue. Not surprising. Clearly the guy is at full stretch, reaching too far. Their prototype would benefit from a couple of hours consultancy with some industrial / furniture designers. Probably the guys in the next corridor down at the university. How you make this work for a range of peop
the problem... (Score:2)
We had consoles and keyboards built into desks back to at least the seventies, maybe earlier. I think the reason it didn't do well back then is that forklift upgrades are so expensive.
That said, it's an interesting idea, but I wonder how this differs from having a Surface (or something similar) and a couple of big monitors acting in concert? (Anyone see the Hawaii 50
Close but no cigar (Score:2)
I was think (Score:2)
still impractical (Score:2)
Back when Sun was still swimming in money (i.e., a long time ago), Sun "envisioned" exactly this and made a video about it. Backprojected displays and camera-based touch interfaces also already existed back then (imagine that).
I didn't see then what this gives me over monitors and keyboards, and I still don't. It's less modular, bulkier, harder to move, and less functional than what I have now. And a ton more expensive.
Cubicle of the future (Score:2)
With two more walls/screens, it could become the cubicle of the future.... wait, make it four walls, I don't want to be interrupted while working.
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No, he had a desk with spaces for a keyboard and monitor, which is not remotely the same thing.