Wireless Power Group Has 'Qi' Prototypes 117
judgecorp writes "Steady progress on inductive wireless charging. There are now certified prototypes of chargers for Blackberry and iPhone devices that meet the Qi specification of the Wireless Power Consortium, which was announced last year. The spec has advanced from version 0.95 to 1.0, too."
Can Nicola Tesla claim prior art? (Score:2)
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Zombie Nicola Tesla, perhaps.
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Can Nicola Tesla claim prior art [wikipedia.org]?
Sure he can and I'm also sure Edison will put up obstacles all the way to the patent office. The banks might even fund this "new" invention since it still has its connection to a wall socket and meter.
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Qi: The Bootloader [openmoko.org]
Qi: The Open Source Hardware [qi-hardware.com]
Qi: The wireless charging standard [eweekeurope.co.uk]
Kthxbye
If this can work with AC (Score:1)
I see a massive influx of funny Youtube videos titled, "Hey y'all! Watch this!"
Redneck's last words... (Score:2)
"Hey y'all! Watch this!"*
I'm waiting for the higher power one for my netbook. But I'm more interested in this one that's coming [eweekeurope.co.uk] that will charge your stuff from two yards away. It looks like you could have cordless table lamps with that one, using LED bulbs.
* Credit for that joke -- Jeff Foxworthy
They are still sorting out cell phones (Score:2, Interesting)
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Putting my radio time clock on the desk that the PC is under makes it unable to get good enough reception for a lock. Fortunately the strength of EM waves decreases exponentially as they radiate outwards so moving it about 1m away is enough to make it work.
Counter-intuitive? (Score:2)
Is inductive charging different from a degaussing field? I just wonder because when I have to degauss hard drives they get HOT and degaussers don't just ruin the data on the platters but also annihilate ICs and most components on the PC board leaving little to salvage.
So, it just puts me off a little bit to intentionally do something similar with my expensive electronic devices...
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when I have to degauss hard drives they get HOT and degaussers don't just ruin the data on the platters but also annihilate ICs and most components on the PC board
You must be using a VERY high power degausser. My eight year old old Trinitron degausses every time I turn it on, but its ICs and other components don't suffer for it. I'm sure that this isn't so powerful you'll ruin your phone.
If you remove the drives before degaussing them, you won't lose the rest of the parts.
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A degausser is a 'dumb' field; it transfers energy through brute force. Wireless energy devices use 'inductive coupling' - it's much more precise, much more efficient.
Efficient? Better in any way? (Score:3, Interesting)
Call me a conservative engineer... I don't care.
What's the point of this? Is it more efficient (using less electricity) than just plugging a cable into a small socket on the side of the phone? I doubt it.
It easier to use than plugging in a cable in a socket? Hardly.
Is the charger easier to replace than those standard nokia chargers that everyone has several of lying around? Doubt it.
Will it be standardized? That'd be lovely. But normal chargers should have been standardized long ago.
The only added value I see is that you can now completely waterproof a gadget.
I can see the added value for things like electric toothbrushes - those must be encased in a water proof shell. But the whole point of phones is that you replace them every 1-2 years. Making them stronger and water proof is bad business.
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yup - it is easier. It's really nice to use.
I have a palm pre with the touchstone charger and it is really nice to just place it on the dock where it holds magnetically in place and starts charging.
Not worldchanging - but a definite improvement.
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If you have a "dock" then how is it easier? Normal docks already eliminate cables.
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just because it sits loosely on the base so you simply place the phone on the dock, rather than having to slot carefully into the receptor on the dock. (which essentially guides the device into the plug connector)
as I said, not a huge difference, but a nice one.
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just because it sits loosely on the base so you simply place the phone on the dock, rather than having to slot carefully into the receptor on the dock. (which essentially guides the device into the plug connector)
as I said, not a huge difference, but a nice one.
And ironically, it DOES help standardize the docking. Since you fit your phone with a special adapter, it can be performed on almost any phone.
With docks, each phone has it's own special dock, so if you have 6-7 devices (high estimate) you need 6-7
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If you have a "dock" then how is it easier? Normal docks already eliminate cables.
The Pre does not have a normal dock as such - the only other option is to plug the cable in to a connector hidden behind a rotating plastic flap. If used as often as you need to charge a smartphone (i.e. almost every day), I doubt the plastic flap would last all that long before it snapped off.
Using the touchstone dock removes that problem (admittedly a design flaw in the pre in the first place...)
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The only added value I see is that you can now completely waterproof a gadget.
I can see the added value for things like electric toothbrushes
My electric toothbrush is already completely waterproof and it's about ten years old (changeable heads).
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The only added value I see is that you can now completely waterproof a gadget.
I can see the added value for things like electric toothbrushes
My electric toothbrush is already completely waterproof and it's about ten years old (changeable heads).
Yeah but the secondary coil (in the brush) encloses the primary coil (in the stand) which is more efficient that a flat pad. Also the duty cycle of a toothbrush is exactly the opposite of a phone. The phone may have to charge quickly for a day of heavy use.
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But that's a regular transformer. Qi is as far as I can tell a resonant transformer [wikipedia.org].
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Making them stronger and water proof is bad business.
Call me a conservative engineer but making something intentionally fragile in order to sell more replacement is bad engineering. Demand should be driven by constant innovation, not planned ageing.
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Making them stronger and water proof is bad business.
Call me a conservative engineer but making something intentionally fragile in order to sell more replacement is bad engineering. Demand should be driven by constant innovation, not planned ageing.
That was a sarcastic remark from my side - and planned aging is why electronics things still break down. There are plenty examples of devices that nowadays break down faster than in the past. Good for the economy, but useless nonetheless.
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Not good for the economy. Broken window fallacy. If the money spent on replacement electronics were spent on other things instead, we'd be much better off.
Especially considering that little of the cash spent on electronics stimulates the local economy -- it stimulates the local economies in China, Indonesia, etc., where the products are made.
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Also, dumping/recycling defective stuff and building replacements wastes resources and time.
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There are plenty examples of devices that nowadays break down faster than in the past. Good for the economy, but useless nonetheless.
That's the broken window fallacy. Building products that are unreliable is not good for the economy as a whole. At best it may be good for the person making the product (depending on how discerning their customers are).
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Good for the manufacturer, BAD for the economy. It's just more broken windows.
Re:Efficient? Better in any way? (Score:5, Informative)
...
I can see the added value for things like electric toothbrushes - those must be encased in a water proof shell. But the whole point of phones is that you replace them every 1-2 years. Making them stronger and water proof is bad business.
actually there is no reason not to do contact based charging with a water proof object just make the exposed metal contacts out of a non corrosive metal - gold plating is best, chrome plating works for low voltage/current - solid nickel works really well.
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May I ask why you are charging your phone underwater? I think the idea was to be wirelessly chargeable and waterproof, not exactly to do both at the same time.
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No, diodes can make it so electricity can only "come in" to the device, not leave it.
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Yes, they will definitely charge more for that.
Solid Nickel (Score:3, Funny)
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do tell me why you would be placing charing contacts on your face?
I understand some people can be allergic to Nickel but also some are allergic to gold - and silver.
for the large part people aren't allergic to nickel - and it is a very good an relatively cheap noncorrosive metal (when solid - the plating never lasts).
but you know.. manufactures already know this - they also know that ALL computer interconnects should be gold plated and the reasons why.. yet we still see plenty of them that are exposed Tin o
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The big point with waterproof items is if you pierce the membrane, you have another potential entry point for water. Unless you have a major inefficiency problem with inductive charging, you're better off without the holes.
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while i agree with that - it's splitting hairs.. unless you have a device Completely removed of the outside world and completely encapsulated then it can't be waterproof as as you have to pierce the membrane for something.
If you make the charging contacts part of the membrane and make them withstand the environment they are to function in - then there is no reason why you should need inductive charging.
I'm not against inductive charging - it makes a lot of sense for things that normally would have some typ
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If you make the charging contacts part of the membrane and make them withstand the environment they are to function in - then there is no reason why you should need inductive charging.
Ignoring your big IF for a moment: That will have an effect on the aesthetics(not always minor). They require the ability to maintain contact and quite often with docks, require a specific alignment/configuration. If using docks, each one must be tailored to the device which will dock in it, therefore you will likely require
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But we need holes for our speaker, our microphone, our swappable SIM card, our swappable microSD card, our USB port, our headphones, etc. (No, bluetooth doesn't cover the last two - it's shit.)
And if something breaks, we need to open the device and be able to repair it.
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Those are valid points, but I'm not just thinking of electronics. As it is, speakers and microphones can be made waterproof, even if they can be easily punctured. But I still hate that the warranty is voided on my cell phone because I had it in my pants pocket on a rainy day.
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The benefit is just ease. Don't fumble with cables or getting your phone aligned properly in a dock... just throw it on the mat and you're done.
Wouldn't mind getting an inductive charger for my HTC Desire - any suggestions?
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What's the efficiency of these? The last thing the world needs right now is another way to waste energy.
Still ... if it's expensive enough and leads to standardization it might mean less overall waste then having dozens of chargers for everything.
Re:Efficient? Better in any way? (Score:5, Insightful)
The electricity most people use for small electronics pales in comparison to the energy they use for heating and cooling.
The public awareness programs trying to get people to unplug chargers are ridiculous, that money should be spent trying to convince them to move their thermostat 1/2 degree or add insulation.
And please note that I'm not saying that it won't have any impact, I'm saying that the impact it has is so much smaller than other things that it is currently a wasted effort.
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The electricity most people use for small electronics pales in comparison to the energy they use for heating and cooling.
Doesn't mean its okay to splash the stuff around now.
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For a handheld device with a huge battery, these things are maybe going to waste 3 or 4 kilowatt-hours per year. A modest central air system consumes that it a few hours (assuming it is cycling properly). A Prius is going to consume the equivalent in about 6 miles of driving.
Re:Efficient? Better in any way? (Score:4, Insightful)
Doesn't mean its okay to splash the stuff around now.
Actually it might. It is cost prohibitive (and quality of life prohibitive) to attempt to live in a 100% efficient manner. There will always be boundaries in which there is flexibility.
Heating and cooling are orders of magnitude greater than pocket electronics in terms of power consumption. To put it bluntly, you would need to charge your cell phone 300-400 times in order to match running your Air Conditioner for 1 hour.
I'd say that gives cell phones some wiggle room in the charging efficiency category. The reason why cell phones require so little power is by virtue of the fact that they are designed to be portable, and available for the entire day (or days). Televisions, DVD players, and game consoles which COULD benefit from more power efficiency (in terms of 'green') don't do so because they currently don't need to.
As a result, worrying about cell phones is just, pardon the pun, wasted energy. Their efficiency puts them so low on the energy impact scale that I probably wasted more energy typing up this post on a regular computer than my cell phone consumed playing back music at the same time.
Cell phones have a natural check to energy wastefullness that other electronic products do not have. That check is that they MUST be portable, and therefore efficiency is ALWAYS a high concern of the designers. This means that they will likely always at the bottom of any list of household power consumers. Even if the chargers become less efficient, the cell phone itself will not really require enough power to make us worry about it.
The 'waste' you are worried about is like worrying about waste energy when you walk out your front door and the AC is running. Yes, there is loss, but with respect to things we can actually worry about without impacting our quality of life, it is inconsequential.
Re:Efficient? Better in any way? (Score:4, Insightful)
It's not really about efficiency or financial savings. It's about consumer psychology. Of course, the big items have the big potential gains. But, big items cost big money to change. People don't spend big money until they know and understand the benefit. Little things have smaller potential gains,but can be implemented for little or no money. A PR campaign for a little thing educates the consumers about the issue, without threatening the consumers emotionally by telling them to spend a lot of money. Power adapters and light bulbs are the two major examples of such campaigns.
Getting people to change a light bulb is a little thing. It costs just a couple bucks, and takes just a few minutes. And, old light bulbs need to be replaced when they fail, anyway. The savings to one consumer by changing one light bulb is only a few bucks. But there is a big savings, both environmentally and economically, when you multiply by the number of light bulbs i the nation and the hours that they are normally operated.
Power adapters cost a little more to replace with high-efficiency units, but can be unplugged easily and for not cost. The campaign to get people to unplug power adapters isn't really going to save much power, because the newer units really don't use much power, and older units get replaced anyway whenever the phone gets replaced. The savings from 'unplugging' is also smaller because it takes labor, so most people just won't do it. So, there really isn't much actual power savings available. But, because "unplugging" is free, it is a non-threatening way to achieve some consumer education.
The biggest effect is that it gets consumers to think about the power that they use in their houses. After a consumer understands the potential savings, they become more willing to spend some capital to get more of those savings.
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So you think the government should be engaged in overt manipulation of the people?
There is something to be said for operating in as direct and honest a manner as possible.
(Personally I've had a mediocre experience with CFLs, a couple of them have died in months, and the $2-3 they cost is a lot more than an incandescent would cost, but worth a lot less than the dicking around it would take to actually get warranty service).
And if you are worried about people's emotions, offer tax incentives. Those generally
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The electricity most people use for small electronics pales in comparison to the energy they use for heating and cooling.
true
The public awareness programs trying to get people to unplug chargers are ridiculous, that money should be spent trying to convince them to move their thermostat 1/2 degree or add insulation.
And please note that I'm not saying that it won't have any impact, I'm saying that the impact it has is so much smaller than other things that it is currently a wasted effort.
Actually there is a big difference between "move their thermostat 1/2 degree or add insulation" and "unplug chargers".
The first either decreases the amount of comfort or costs money (to insulate).
The second saves you money and has a positive impact on the environment.
Also the those awareness programs have side effects:
People now know that stand-by modes in other appliances use energy, thus some of them will take that into account when shopping. Eventually even unplugging some other appliances when not i
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My point is largely that unplugging chargers does not save an appreciable amount of money.
And insulation does have upfront costs, but in the cases it makes sense, it, by definition, pays for itself.
I'm not going to argue about whether 1/2 degree on the thermostat really has much impact on comfort (if it has a large impact, it is a good sign the building needs more insulation!).
I'm also not going to have an assertion battle over whether the awareness programs make any sense, but I will mention that I find th
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Actually there is a big difference between "move their thermostat 1/2 degree or add insulation" and "unplug chargers".
The first either decreases the amount of comfort or costs money (to insulate).
The second saves you money and has a positive impact on the environment.
And reaching behind my dresser every day to unplug my cell phone charger doesn't have an effect on my comfort? I'd say that the convenience of placing the phone on a charging mat every night rather than plugging it in and plugging in the charger has much less effect on my comfort than turning down my thermostat a tiny amount.
You're implying that turning down the thermostat or adding insulation doesn't save me money or have a positive impact on the environment, yet in truth it likely saves you more money
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1/2 a degree is not human noticeable, and insulation can be done with tax funded money or low cost loans.
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The electricity most people use for small electronics pales in comparison to the energy they use for heating and cooling.
The public awareness programs trying to get people to unplug chargers are ridiculous, that money should be spent trying to convince them to move their thermostat 1/2 degree or add insulation.
And please note that I'm not saying that it won't have any impact, I'm saying that the impact it has is so much smaller than other things that it is currently a wasted effort.
Yes! Thank you for making that point -- people don't think about sense of scale when they implement energy savings. (and of course, in cold climates, energy efficiency of appliances inside the home doesn't matter, since that inefficiency is dissipated as heat and goes toward heating your house)
They'll spend hundreds of $$ replacing chargers and installing smart power strips to save 5 watts of standby power, but they won't make capital improvements like additional insulation that may only cost $20/month a
Just more convenient (Score:3, Insightful)
I'd think the main advantage would be one of convenience - come home, drop cellphone on charging pad. When leaving, just pick up cellphone from charging pad. No fiddling with small power plugs or figuring out which adapter/plug goes into which device, and (if some sort of compatibility is maintained between these devices): drop multiple devices on the same (larger) charging pad.
Of course some losses would be associated with inductive charging, but unless very significant I doubt that's a problem for low
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It doesn't say so in the article but are these things going to be completely standard for all devices? (presumably sold separately...)
If not then it's going to make things an awful lot worse.
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Except that if you ever used an existing dock, you know that it really isn't any simpler. Nowadays you just drop your phone into the slot on the dock, and that's it.
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Coulda, shoulda, woulda. The fact is that they're not. With this is place you'd finally have the standard you've been looking for.
Not to mention that with this in place you're going to have a lot more charging options. Hotel rooms, offices and cruise ships will doubtlessly have these so that you're not having to plug in your charger which means that you won't have to worry about lugging 4 different chargers and then have to find 4 available outlet
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well - they pretty much are now.
the EU threatened the phone companies with compulsory standardisation if they didn't play nice, so they all agreed to standardise on usb chargers.
ok, so there are a bunch of USB plug formats, and yes Apple exempted themselves, but nonetheless we are pretty close to a standard charger now.
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Send folks high up in EU bureaucracy a message? They seem to be the only organisation in the world with both brains and balls to tell corporate dickheads that if they don't do the obvious better thing, they'd going to mandate it.
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Still a pain in the ass though. A power mat would be great, I'd be able to just have one cable trailing around next to my bed instead of 4..
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The only added value I see is that you can now completely waterproof a gadget.
I already can, and do.
Several years ago I saw George Thorogood at an outdoor concert at the Illinois State Fair. A huge thunderstorm rolled in right before his last song, and he stood there on stage in the pouring rain playing that electric guitar*; great concert. Except I got soaked to the skin walking to the bus, and my phone never worked again.
From then on I carry a ziplick baggie in my pocket. So now my phone actually is water
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It easier to use than plugging in a cable in a socket? Hardly.
Hardly? More like supremely. It would be great to have my phone, console controllers, netbook etc all be able to charge off the same charger, ie have it built into my coffee table rather than have to always be hooking up messy cables all over the place every time I want to charge something.
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Advantages (Score:1)
I can see a few things that would be an advantage.
- One you've already mentioned, that this would hopefully constitute a "global standard" so that any device that wants to charge wireless would have to support it, and to heck with the Apple/Sony/Samsung type companies that seem to want to use their own proprietary connector
- Being universal-like, these could be incorporated into all sorts of different places or items. I could have a pad on my desk at work that I drop either my personal or work phone, mp3 pl
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I'm hoping this makes it to something like a cup that i simply drop my phone into. or better yet, a bowl that i can plop all my gadgets into at once. say something like a 8" diameter that my cell could be plopped into, along with the ipod, and the rest of my portable electroncis.
Better if it has a bluetooth or simmilar interface so that the devices can negotiate for best power use, and the charging pad can turn"off" when there are no devices that need to be recharged.
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It easier to use than plugging in a cable in a socket? Hardly.
It is easier when your socket is behind the breakfront.
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Additionally a lot of the newer ones are set up so that they shut the electrical drain do
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Will it be standardized? That'd be lovely. But normal chargers should have been standardized long ago.
The designers responsible for the current blizzard of snowflake wall warts should be beaten to death with their own products.
The future (Score:2)
I love the fact that we have wireless power chargers now, even if they are (relatively) primitive. When I was a kid (I was born in 1984, so to some of you I still am...ha!) the one invention I hoped to see in my lifetime was the ability to safely transmit power wirelessly. Even though it's still in it's rudimentary stages, I certainly didn't expect the technology to appear so soon.
Sweeeeet nectar.
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I hoped to see in my lifetime was the ability to safely transmit power wirelessly.
Didn't we have laser powered devices some time ago already?
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Should have been more specific...I meant on a "mainstream" scale. These charging mats are just a starting point, but they are priced low enough where the average person could afford them.
When I was a kid, I was thinking more along the lines of wireless lamps and such, but you gotta start somewhere, right?
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I hoped to see in my lifetime was the ability to safely transmit power wirelessly.
Didn't we have laser powered devices some time ago already?
And solar powered devices. Thats wireless.
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i still remember seeing a setup with a ruby laser for speakers.
it was completely analog in that the lasers intensity was fluxed in the same way you would do voltage/amperage for a speaker signal (don't know the exact details i was young when i saw it).. in this fashion the ruby laser provided both the power to drive the coil and the audio.
was really neat to see and play with..
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Is a de-charge possible? (Score:1, Interesting)
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If you can charge something like a battery over the air with (i'm assuming) magnetic waves.. Is it somehow possible to have the same battery be drained by opposing magnetic waves or some other sort of interference while it is on or off the charger?
No, only if the device cooperates. One exception to note is that if you put the antenna of your phone close to a ground plane (like a metal table top) the transmitter will increase its transmission power, thus draining the battery.
Then there was this story I read about a guy who lived next door to an AM radio station and extracted energy from their cyclone wire fence. Not sure about that one.
Not sure what the benefit is (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm not really sure what the overall benefit of the "wireless" electromagnetic induction chargers are. You're still left with a wire (from the wall to your induction charger plate) and now, you're left with the added problem of having to hunt around for the induction charger plate whenever you need to charge your device. Plus, I'm betting those chargers will cost you a lot more than, say, a USB mini cable. It just seems like the technology's desperately looking for an audience.
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Maybe, but it'll cost a lot more to build a charger plate than it would be to buy a simple cable. For example, I've got 3 chargers for my phone - one in my office, one at my home computer, and one in my car. Each of those chargers are fairly cheap - 10-20 bucks max, because they're just a simple USB cable. If I had to switch to induction charger plates, I bet you that I'd have to shell out at least $50-100 bucks per charger.
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3 chargers for that one ... 3 chargers for the one you had before... how many have you had in your lifetime?
The 'USB' thing is recent (and still not universal - my phone doesn't have it).
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Then you should buy a better phone.
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Most likely in the future cars will come with these built in at least. I know I'd certainly buy one for home too, and with the battery life you get on gadgets these days you probably won't need a charger at work.. and workplaces might start using desks with all of this built in to power devices rather than having to mess about with fscking power cables for everything. The 8 port power extender under my desk only has one port free, and only then because I was fed up of having to unplug my speakers every time
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1) many phones and cameras still do not charge over USB (in fact the iphones won't "fast charge" over usb)
2) so you use the cable at work(hopfully you have enough battery to got 10 hours on a charge), and the pad at home. Of course I'd like to see less of a pad design and more of a bowl design.
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The assumption is that you'll leave one charger plate sitting out in your house, and use all your Qi-based gadgets with it. One charger for you and your visitors, no fiddling with plugs, no misplacing the charger, great. The big hurdle is that they'll need a lot of adoption before people find themselves in that scenario. In the interim it's just a big expensive charger for that one big expensive thing you own that works with it, and unless they somehow push through that barrier it'll never sell.
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you're left with the added problem of having to hunt around for the induction charger plate whenever you need to charge your device
That makes no sense at all. Added problem? What's the difference between knowing where the cordless charger is and knowing where the USB charger is?
Plus, I'm betting those chargers will cost you a lot more than, say, a USB mini cable
Convinience always costs more. Compare the cost of a loaf of bread at a convience store to one at e grocery store, for example. The benefit is, with
A New Age of Inefficiency (Score:2)
Finally a way to soak up all the work in energy efficiency all over the tech world, and break even in an eternal 2005 of wasted energy!
Cool system (Score:2)
Shame about the atrocious logo design.
Electric cars (Score:1)
Doesn't the Palm Pre already do this? (Score:2)
Doesn't the Palm Pre already do this? Also isn't there a generic inductive cell phone charger already on the market? Some kind of charging mat? If so, what is all this fuss about, other than it would be one device to charge them all?
Wireless power chips are already buyable online!! (Score:2)
http://www.powercastco.com/ [powercastco.com]
Not magnetic induction charge plate based, actually over the air over medium distances, already here, products available for immediate delivery [futureelectronics.com].... and nobody seems to cares. They've been around for a few years with shipping product and everything.
It's almost like people can't believe their product is real. It's so very strange.
Even won a best of CES in 2007: http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-12760_7-9673092-5.html?tag=ces2007;mcol [cnet.com]
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