Pumping Sunlight Into Homes 182
ByronScott sends a snippet from Inhabitat that begins "What if you could light your entire building using no electricity or artificial lights – but just the natural light from our favorite star, the Sun? Enter the Sundolier, a powerful sunlight transport system that's like putting a solar robot on your roof to pump sunlight indoors. The manufacturer claims a single Sundolier unit can provide enough light to illuminate a 1,000-2,500 sq. ft. area [93-232 sq. m] without any other sources." The company's website is a bit thin on details, such as what happens on cloudy days, or how many days of sunlight per year on average are needed for the device to perform acceptably.
There are no details (Score:5, Informative)
It's thin on the details because there are no details. This is just a flexible aluminum tube and a diffuser. The only thing different about this than the kits you can get at Menards is the big collector array which tracks the sun.
There's no solar panels in this system. On cloudy days, you use electric lighting.
Our Sundolier delivers sunlight so effectively that electric lighting can be turned off when the sun is out offering excellent opportunities to save electricity while reducing heat generation through cool indirect daylighting.
There's no mention anywhere, not in the inhabitat.com article, nor the companies website, that this does anything on cloudy days.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Like this one? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ncizu6OV3fk [youtube.com]
Uses coke bottles filled with water and bleach. (Bleach is there to reduce algae growth.)
Re: (Score:2)
I recall reading a while back about a company that replaced some of their big fluorescent tubes with fiber-optic arrays that piped in sunlight, this seems like a fancier version of that.
Re:There are no details (Score:4, Insightful)
Or a less fancy version. The article says
The concentrated light is then reflected down a two foot tube and distributed using a “sun chandelier”.
Fiberoptics would allow you to snake light to various rooms, into basements, etc. That seems more useful.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Considering it's for blunt transfer of light I think the fiber version might be cheaper too since you could basically make it out of the cheapest still-transmitting rejected cables.
I'm not sure how much the cheapest functional cable for this is though, or how flexible, although the real trick would be getting the light into the fiber-optics to begin with. Some kind of half-pipe and tube-collector design both capable of just being hosed down by a home user is obviously the best solution but probably also exp
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:There are no details (Score:5, Interesting)
Sweet a hypochondriac geek.
If you are worrying about the tiny bit of VOC's from your houses wiring, then I better not tell you about what your carpet and the wood in your house is outgassing. or the paint on the walls (yes even the "enviro-junk" they sell to try and placate people like you).
The wiring puts out far FAR less than many other sources in a home even a LEEDS certified green home. Natural woods gas out nasties if you want to go looking for nasties.
Oh and dont get me started about the impurity of the gypsum in your wall board.....
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Poor guy can't even go live in a cave, due to the threat of Radon. Seriously, if someone is that worried about the toxins in their house they should open their window and exchange them for the toxins outside their house.
Re: (Score:2)
I would never build anything with sheet rock. That stuff is fucking disgusting. Everywhere I want to live it always eventually becomes little more than a mold substrate. I want to build an earthbag+mud plaster home topped with decks and greenhouses
Fucking hilarious. After living in the suburbs for so many years, you start to realize that what most people consider a "house" is really an "apartment," seeing as how they're all identical and jammed right next to each other. You'd think Tony Soprano (rich, su
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Fiberoptics would allow you to snake light to various rooms, into basements, etc. That seems more useful.
I think it would require a very thick bundle to bring in enough to usefully light a room, so could be prohibitively expensive.
As for lighting a basement with this, you would just need a place where you could reasonably have 2.5 by 2.5 foot - or 2.5 foot diameter - column (maybe smaller depending on construction, but the tube would need to be enclosed) going down through the intervening floor(s). Since basements are typically a single large room, doing this might be worth the cost of such a column - provided
Re: (Score:2)
Mixing CTB and CTO (Score:2, Informative)
I noticed that they are mixing color temperatures [wikipedia.org] in that video.
Sunlight is CTB-- "color-temperature blue" -- about 6500 Kelvin.
Tungsten lights are CTO - "color-temperature orange" -- about 3200 Kelvin
When you have a big skylight but use tungsten lamps to light the same room, the effect is this weird blue/orange clashing effect where areas lit by the different light sources appear to have different hues. The same thing is common in grade schools or offices where blue light from the windows collides with
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Also the same thing can be done with a single skylight in each room. Far more effective and gives you a beautiful view of the sky in every room. NOTE: dont put skylights directly above showers... A lot of people do this, ask hot air balloonists how many naked people they see through them.
P.S. if you have opening skylights you can significantly reduce your cooling bills as well. If you try and tell me about the "energy savings of the tube ones versus the real skylight. I laugh. a leaky reflective tub
If they are smart... (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Google Ships Crystal, or its more modern equivalent, manufactured by solatube or velux (and probably a gazillion others.)
Not sure what the news is here, other than they got a big, complex, mechanical thing on top that costs money and needs fixing.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
OK, they're officially call "Deck Prisms".
http://glassian.org/Prism/Deck/index.html [glassian.org]
Re: (Score:2)
In other words, this is a pitch to foolish investors who are looking to put money into green technology, much like many of the "this project will fix the environment" slashvertisements that pop up from time to time.
The trouble is that most green technology is along the lines of cheap and simple, not expensive and patentable. For instance, this gizmo might even work, but is going to have far less effect on your greenhouse gas emissions than living near where you work or commuting by public transit. Similarly
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
And it makes some pretty bold claims about those use cases...
Studies have shown that retail sales go up, productivity increases, and school grades improve thanks to natural indoor light. But the biggest gain is in the occupants’ health.
Is this true? I have a kneejerk reaction to "Studies have shown..."
I guess there may be some benefit to SADs cases*.
*Though I can never decide if it doesn't exist or if everyone in London has it. Check out the symptoms; "...some people experience a serious mood change when the seasons change. They may sleep too much, have little energy, and crave sweets and starchy foods. They may also feel depressed. Though symptoms can be severe, they usually cl
Re: (Score:2)
[via Wiki]
Which wiki?
Re: (Score:2)
I know it's "only" anecdotal, but my productivity is greater and the quality of my work better when I'm working near a window.
I used to have a windowless studio and would start to get sleepy after just an hour or so of work. When I bought my new place I made sure to put my work area in a room with a skylight and windows.
I had to do a lot of dicking around with the acoustics because a sheet of glass is a highly reflective surface, but once I put up proper
Re: (Score:2)
It's a mixed bag. UV light is necessary for certain vitamin synthesis (not all vitamins are essential, you're body makes a few of them). UV is also good therapeutically at treating certain diseases, and UV light helps produce chemicals in the skin which assist in proper brain regulation. That said, UV light also is directly responsible for skin cancer.
I'll bet that these guys are promoting the good, and ignoring the bad. Odds are the light is filtered, even if filtered unintentionally, buy the first she
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I recently had a "Sun Tube" (sold at Home Depot and Lowes) installed in my house as an experiment.
They cost about $153. It eliminates the need for a couple 60 watt bulbs and provides the lighting of about 300 watts.
There appears to be no heat gain but I'm sure there is some.
I'm happy with the results-- some people are not. The light is not yellowy like the light we are used to - it's blue white. You look outside the window and it's the same color but somehow it seems different when there isn't a window t
Re: (Score:2)
what a great idea! (Score:4, Funny)
this works amazing, we should find a new name for this revolutionary device, how about we call it a WINDOW????
only downside, it doesnt work when it's needed most, namely AT NIGHT, when it's dark.
Maybe WINDOWS version 2.1 will fix that??
Re:what a great idea! (Score:5, Insightful)
only downside, it doesnt work when it's needed most, namely AT NIGHT, when it's dark.
That's not a bug.....it's a feature.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:what a great idea! (Score:4, Insightful)
This has lots of interesting uses, but homes are not generally the primary market. Light pipes are most useful for businesses. You want to build a big office building to minimize cost, which means that not everybody can have a window office. So what do you do? You put in light pipes so that you can significantly reduce your energy costs and significantly improve worker health and morale.
Same principal applies to apartment buildings, hotels, etc. Imagine a sun deck with outdoor-style gardens at ground level in a 20-story hotel. Imagine cutting the lighting bill for an entire office building (including interior rooms) to zero almost every day. And so on.
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Didnt they use these back in ancient times with someone adjusting the mirrors by hand
Yes, but I've been banned from training monkeys to move the mirrors and the slaves keep going blind.
Never trust a blind slave to shave you...
Re:what a great idea! (Score:5, Funny)
Yes, but I've been banned from training monkeys to move the mirrors and the slaves keep going blind. Never trust a blind slave to shave you...
The sighted monkeys aren't such a great idea either.
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Let me guess, they banned you because of your (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The basic reflective light pipe design dates back to ancient Egypt, according to Wikipedia, but I doubt they used tracking mirrors back then. I mean ostensibly, but really, why bother when you can just use a bigger collector? It's not like they were building high density housing back then.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Come on, we all know Slashdotters live in their parents basement where windows won't do any good. This could finally get some sunlight to them before they evolve into mole people.
50W lightbulb using a common 2L Bottle (Score:5, Informative)
This has been done in the 3rd world for ages. You drill a hole in your roof, mount a 2L soda bottle filled with water (and two cap-fulls of bleach to keep it clean and clear), and stick an old black plastic film canister overtop of the white lid to keep the plastic from degrading. The video of these in use is amazing. Sadly however it only works when the sun is up - which is most of the workday (12 hrs typically) in the tropics.
Watch it in action. Wow. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zMAWztZ6TI [youtube.com]
Re: (Score:2)
This was worth the article. I have always felt if we just thought about things more, there are natural ways to have things even better than we have now. Lighting has been something that was on my mind lately. This is giving me ideas.
Re: (Score:2)
As natural as a 2L plastic bottle is anyways ;)
Re: (Score:2)
Who says you have to use a 2 liter bottle? Find a natural replacement and you have all-natural lighting! (Oops I said that out loud, now the marketers are going to catch wind and bastardize it!)
Re: (Score:2)
Hey man... thanks for that. I'm glad to see how much easier/cheaper you can do it for at home and may actually make use of that kind of design for a shop or garage or something.
One thing I must say about the originally pointed out product and these bottle ones.... the light looks really appealing. It looks very natural and cozy, like when you have a well lit home that gets most its light from nice location and windows.
Rockin!
Re:50W lightbulb using a common 2L Bottle (Score:5, Informative)
Maybe you're the person to ask ...
Some years back I stopped for a meal at a restaurant in the historical district of a small town here in California. The restaurant was a converted barn of some sort and had two large double doors for an entrance. During business hours, those doors were left open, as were another set of interior doors that led to an open air patio outside. Hanging on the wall by each sets of doors was a large 1-quart ziplock bag. The bag was filled with water.
Noticing the bags, I asked the owner about them. She told me they were there to keep the flies from coming into the restaurant. I asked how a water-filled bag worked to keep flies away, and she said, "No idea, but do you see any flies in here?" Indeed, there were no flies to be seen (though there were some outside). She went on to tell me that that they had a regular fly problem years back, and one day a local immigrant gardner suggested the bags. The rest, as they say, is history.
I'd guess an entomologist might be the one to ask, but have you heard of this technique being used?
Re:50W lightbulb using a common 2L Bottle (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I thought something like that at first, too... Then fortunately pondered the implications before getting out the hole-saw.
Why does your garden shed have a roof in the first place? Mine keeps out the elements, rain in particular. Rain, which has the most amazing ability to work its way into the smallest of cracks, trickle along studs, and drip into exactly t
Spreads the light nicely instead and no tracking (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
That's great. It shows very nicely the difference between the western techno-fetishistic approach, that would produce big shiny solar panels at enormous expense to run the electric lights, and true human ingenuity.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
You can do the same with acrylic rods. We did that for a insulated ceiling building in northern Michigan. we had the top of the rod cut at an angle and had that angle set to the south east as lighting was more important to be bright in the morning. 3 foot long 4" diameter clear rod cost less than $40.00 each and the cutting and polishing was done on site with a saw and acetone. inside was crudely faceted to spread the light around, shaft was painted with white wall paint.. plus you dont get a heat
Re: (Score:2)
As for the high-tech thing mentioned in the article... that would be a lot more useful if the "lights" had a lightbulb fixture inside of them, and a system to automatically add more artificial light if the sunlight dims for a moment (for example, if a cloud passes). That way you get a constant brightness inside while still saving energy.
Similar to a Deck Prism (Score:2)
50W lightbulb using a common 2L Bottle
This is basically functioning in the same way as a ship's Deck Prism [wikipedia.org]. These were big glass blocks that were used in ships as a way to guide and diffuse light below decks. Edmund Scientific sells them:
http://scientificsonline.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_3038621 [scientificsonline.com]
Bradbury story (Score:5, Interesting)
There was a story by Bradbury (sorry slow internet here don't want to look it up) where they had "picture" windows made of glass(?) with an extremely(!) high index of refraction. These windows had been left out in some scenic location (African savannah) and because the velocity of light was so slow through the glass, it would take years for the light to get through! Thus a "perfect" 3D display of whatever the window had been exposed to.
Sounds (extremely) farfetched but in "light" (ha ha) of the discovery of a method to slow down or even stop light (admittedly in a Bose-Einstein condescent in a near perfect vacuum just above absolute zero), it is not entirely fantasy. Not entirely.
Re: (Score:2)
"Light of other days", is all I can find. I think that's Clarke, though.
Anyway I remember it, I liked that story. A bit sad at the end, though, when the guy flips his glass over so he can look into his own house and see his late wife as she was 10 years ago.
Re:Bradbury story -- it was Bob Shaw (Score:5, Informative)
I think you mean "Other Days, Other Eyes" by Bob Shaw
Thanks for reminding me -- I read it many years ago and enjoyed it - may re-read it now :-)
It also appeals to another Slashdot meme - an evil government using crop-dusters to sow millions of shards of 'slow glass' to act as passive surveillance.
Re: (Score:2)
So what is the longest we can currently slow down light for at room temperature?
Huh? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
The collector has servo motors so it can track the sun and maximize the amount of light sent to the diffuser. Otherwise it's just the same standard aluminum tubes you'd find in any solar collector installation.
Re: (Score:2)
One big problem with a device like the one in the article is that by following the sun, the light level varies much more as cloud cover changes than light from a normal skylight does.
I have some 10 inch diameter tubes with a clear raised plastic cap, a reflective lining and a diffuser in the ceiling. The provide as much light as a 100 Watt electric light and because they are aimed directly at the sun, the difference in light level doesn't vary as drastically with time of
Are you rich? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
They are not going to give it away. Another rich mans folly.
You'll notice two things about their site:
1) No prices.
2) No "home" applications listed.
We're not their target market anyway.
OLD tech! (Score:2)
Reflective tubes and fitting collectors are known for decades now! Nothing new about it. Remember that Dilbert house some years ago? Yeah, that one had them too.
It’s useless beyond passing one roof and one floor. But if that fits, it’s really great for places where you can’t use windows. Especially if the windows are on the sides, while the roof is above you. But if the roof is right above you, of course a simple window makes more sense. ^^
From their website ... (Score:4, Insightful)
Increase the speed of learning
Directly impact student performance
Improve student behavior
Recruit the best teachers who seek the best environments
Highest quality light = highest quality learning environment
The Heschong Mahone Group analyzed test scores of over 21,000 students in multiple school districts. The study showed that students with the most daylighting in their classrooms progressed 20% faster on math tests and 26% faster on reading tests when compared to students in the least daylit classrooms. Heschong Mahone Group, "Daylighting in Schools" Report at www.h-w-g.com, 1999.
In a North Carolina Performance Report, students attending daylit schools outperformed the students in non-daylit schools by 5%-14%. National Renewable Energy Laboratory Report, " Daylighting in Schools: Improving Student Performance and Health at a Price Schools can Afford, " 2000.
A National Renewable Energy Laboratory Report concluded that students benefit from daylighting, both in terms of increased performance and general health and well being. National Renewable Energy Laboratory Report, "Daylighting in Schools: Improving Student Performance and Health at a Price Schools can Afford, " 2000.
Wow ... "increase the speed of learning?". Given crackpotery on their site, the poor science, the ridiculous claims that instead of focusing on fucking light delivered, focus on subjective, unmeasurable bullshit, the complete lack of details, video, specs, etc. this product doesn't sound very serious ...
Re: (Score:2)
They're just trying to make learning by osmosis a reality.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:From their website ... (Score:5, Interesting)
> Wow ... "increase the speed of learning?"
Actually that is an important point. Most artificial light is so poor that it hinders whatever you try to do. It is well known how to produce better lighting, but it is just not done. When was the last time you experienced lighting that can adjust the color temperature, for example? That is quite an essential feature to keep your day rhythm working properly, and it has been shown to improve learning results significantly.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Wow ... "increase the speed of learning?". Given crackpotery on their site, the poor science, the ridiculous claims that instead of focusing on fucking light delivered, focus on subjective, unmeasurable bullshit, the complete lack of details, video, specs, etc. this product doesn't sound very serious ...
If you compare to incandescent light, this is all probably bullshit. If you compare to fluorescent light, then I believe it. Fluorescent light has been shown to cause migraines in a significant percentage of the population, and it negatively affects attention span in nearly everyone. Nobody knows why yet; maybe it's the flicker, which suggests that the latest high-frequency stuff might not do it; maybe it's the lack of spectrum, with emission centered hard on certain peaks, forcing you to work harder to see
Re: (Score:2)
Raising fish has given me a lot of insight into light. Put an incandescent bulb above a fish tank and you'll do better than nothing, but will likely cook your fish (and the light isn't enough to do much anyway). Put a cheap fluorescent bulb above a fish tank and you'll get enough light (but in the wrong bandwidths). Put a good fluorescent light above a fish tank and you can sustain plant growth.
It is obvious to other fields too, the best lamps used by quilters are ott (sp?) lamps. My mom swears by them.
I bet (Score:2)
Old news (Score:2)
This one goes around corners (Score:4, Funny)
Something like this one: http://www.sunlight-direct.com/ uses fiber optic cables to catch the sunlight and then send it around corners/to other floors/etc. It also doesn't work at night . . . yet. But throw in a few undersea cables (interlight backbone) and we could have a daylight exchange program with nations on the other side of the planet.
Re: (Score:2)
But throw in a few undersea cables (interlight backbone) and we could have a daylight exchange program with nations on the other side of the planet.
wow this is not funny this is insightful!
What distinguishes this from, say, Solatube? (Score:5, Interesting)
When I had a house built back in 1998, "Solatube" lighting was one of the build options. From this pictures, this looks like the same thing with a slightly different input lens for a system like this:
http://www.solatube.com/residential/product-catalog/brighten-up-series/index.php [solatube.com]
I bought one to brighten a dark bathroom. It was nice. pretty much the same effect as a skylight, but it worked even where there was an attic in the way that would make a standard skylight unworkable.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Exactly... light tubes like this have been around for quite a while. We haven't done it yet but we've been planning one for our master bathroom remodel for the last 5 years.
Gee, I wonder. (Score:2)
+1 insightful (Score:2)
Sunpipes are old news (Score:5, Insightful)
However they all suffer from the same drawbacks. You want lighting when it's dark - not (just) during the day, so you still have to install conventional lighting too. Plus they aren't so good when it's cloudy. They also pump in all the solar heat as well as the light so you use more energy than you save cooling the place down.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
They also pump in all the solar heat as well as the light so you use more energy than you save cooling the place down.
It is possible to design a collector to take advantage of chromatic aberration to limit the amount of light outside the visible range that gets in, therefore limiting the amount of heat.
Hey! (Score:4, Funny)
My favorite star is Proxima Centauri, you insensitive clod.
cloudy days vs. light bulbs (Score:2)
There have been a few mentions that something like this would not work on cloudy days.
Without seeing further evidence to the contrary, I'd be more inclined to believe that it wouldn't work as well as it would on sunny days, but would still work better than conventional indoor lighting.
As gray & dreary as it may be outdoors when the sun is hiding behind a cover of clouds, it's all really more of a mental illusion. Measure the light with a light meter (as a photographer would use) and you'll find it's sti
UV exposure? (Score:2)
A little UV exposure is good for most of us, and a lot is bad for most of us. How much UV do these units transmit?
Re: (Score:2)
A little UV exposure is good for most of us, and a lot is bad for most of us. How much UV do these units transmit?
Probably very little, unless they went the extra trouble to use lenses and mirrors that transmit UV as well as visible light.
I wonder if it's patented? (Score:2)
I think you could look to Edgar Rice Boroughs for prior art. Does prior art have to be from the planet Earth?
Been around since the 80s (Score:2, Interesting)
nukdolier (Score:4, Interesting)
This is a problem much more easily solved by placing miniature nuclear power plants on peoples homes to generate electricity for internal lighting. Obviously no one has considered the danger from indoor sunburn from these lamps and a rooftop nuke would be a much more reliable solution that a glorified and much more complicated, sun mirror.
What happens when it's cloudy? Such a stupid idea to use the sun for light during the day as it is *obviously* not as reliable as a rooftop nuke.
20 year old design (Score:2)
Umm...scooped by Weekly Reader... (Score:3, Interesting)
If you have kids in school who still get Weekly Reader, take some time to read it with them. I've been amazed how, time and again, their predictions and insights into new technologies have been right on the mark.
but... (Score:3, Funny)
does it run Linux?
Sorry, someone had to ask.
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
does it run Linux?
More importantly, could you set up a sufficiently large Beowulf cluster of these things to light, say, 1/2 the earth at any given time?
Cost (Score:3, Informative)
Sounds like a light pipe (Score:2)
Yes, we know of windows and skylights (windows in roofs). Neither routs light througout a building.
But light-pipes do. In smaller buildings (houses) they are hemispherical light gatherers with basicaly reflective conduit. In larger strructures, they are fiber-optic.
Cool, but not new.
Similar to existing products (Score:2)
http://huvco.com/products.php?product=parans [huvco.com]
Fat fiberoptic cable leads the light to a diffuser inside the building. The advantages are it's smaller than the tube on an ordinary skylight and can make sharper bends.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I've wondered for years why nobody made something like this... (Or have they, and I just didn't know about it?)
You just haven't known about it. This is a variation upon a theme of the solar tube [solatube.com]. You can even get them in Costco now for under $200 USD each. Though this company appears to be trying to patent this very specific design, a parabolic collector feeding sunlight indoors is not new, and much of the technology is in the public domain and used with varying degrees of success. Naturally, you'll have a higher performing system the more money you put into it, but a good ROI is difficult to achieve as with any sol
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:3)
A tornado can wreck any roof.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Incorrect. Most geodesic domes survive direct interaction with tornadoes. There is a cement dome home in the tornado belt that survived a F-5 tornado. with having all the exterior paint stripped off, but the building was left intact and undamaged.
Just becaouse most people are stupid and build their homes like flimsy boxes does not mean ALL are.