Energy Star Program Certifies 15 Out of 20 Bogus Products 275
longacre writes "A Gasoline-Powered Alarm Clock was among 15 bogus products granted the coveted Energy Star seal of approval by the US Environmental Protection Agency during a secret evaluation conducted by the Government Accountability Office. In addition, four fictional manufacturers run by fake people and marketed with crummy websites — Cool Rapport (HVAC equipment), Futurizon Solar Innovations (lighting), Spartan Digital Electronics, and Tropical Thunder Appliances — were granted Energy Star partnerships. The root of the problem: Manufacturers need only submit photos and not actual examples of their products, and they submit their own efficiency ratings, which are not independently verified by the EPA."
Like patents (Score:5, Interesting)
The sheer volume of applicants makes it infeasible for a single bureaucracy to effectively test physical hardware.
Re:Like patents (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Like patents (Score:4, Funny)
You'd think that they wouldn't default to giving away their (supposedly) valuable seal of approval, though. Most bureaucracies I've dealt with personally just ignored you if too many applications meant they would have to stay past 4pm.
Anyway, way to go GAO. It sounds like somebody in there has a fun job-- "Johnson, I need you to create some idiotic-sounding products and set up fake companies to go with them."
Re:Like patents (Score:4, Interesting)
"You'd think that they wouldn't default to giving away their (supposedly) valuable seal of approval, though."
Actually, I can't think of a single seal of approval, or certification, that means anything. The longer the "standard" has been around, the worse it is. It's all nonsense, IMHO. Reading reviews that real customers have written has proved more effective than looking for some certification which no one understands, and was likely paid for with cash money anyway.
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It was only two months ago the THX certification lost all meaning [slashdot.org] due to lack of testing.
Re:Like patents (Score:5, Informative)
I'll expand your mind then. Try the UL [ul.com] and the NFPA [nfpa.org] seals and listings.
Of course if something is not up to spec (lets say a manufacturer certified with one material and used another in production), then most people have a right to sue the manufacturers for not following the standards they were certified under as well as it being known that the problem wasn't the certification but the production afterward.
Re:Like patents (Score:5, Interesting)
Not sure, but sumdumass is entirely correct.
OSHA runs the rigidly enforced Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratory program for product safety certification program, including companies such as UL, ETL and CSA who routinely test products for compliance with UL, CSA, NFPA and FCC testing. For an additional fee, I'm sure these companies would be happy to provide energy efficiency ratings as well.
As a part of the certification program for most companies, manufacturers receive regular inspections to continue using the UL, ETL and CSA certification marks to verify that the products that they make continue to comply with the requirements originally used to establish conformity to nationally recognized product safety standards.
Once a certification is established, manufacturers cannot modify their product designs in ways that affect the safety of the product without a recertification review.
Re:Like patents (Score:5, Informative)
Actually, I can't think of a single seal of approval, or certification, that means anything.
Underwriters Laboratories [wikipedia.org].
wow! Nicely done! (Score:5, Informative)
I'm a firefighter and I've seen these guys work. They sent someone out to test our 75 foot ladder -- and the guy spent two days with magnets, iron dust, and a damn magnifying glass going over every single inch of the metal -- he found half a dozen micro stress cracks, marked them, and we were able to have them welded and re-checked.
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I don't work for UL anymore, so I obviously do not speak for them, but I've seen their ladder testing and it's pretty neat.
My girlfriend still works for UL and regularly performs UL/NFPA 1901 inspections on new fire trucks as well and it's truly fascinating(to me anyway) to hear about how rigorously new fire trucks are tested.
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Actually, I can't think of a single seal of approval, or certification, that means anything.
How about FAA certification? There's extensive testing and verification required for commercial aircraft to be in compliance with the FAA regulations [gpoaccess.gov]
Re:Like patents (Score:4, Insightful)
"You'd think that they wouldn't default to giving away their (supposedly) valuable seal of approval, though."
Actually, I can't think of a single seal of approval, or certification, that means anything. The longer the "standard" has been around, the worse it is. It's all nonsense, IMHO. Reading reviews that real customers have written has proved more effective than looking for some certification which no one understands, and was likely paid for with cash money anyway.
Except that there is a difference between private certifications and Energy Star because our tax dollars subsidize the purchases of Energy Star qualified products [energystar.gov].
Re:Like patents (Score:5, Insightful)
Regulatory capture: Regulatory entities frequently(out of a mixture of lobbying and the human social processes that come with working together), frequently start to identify with the entities they regulate. It's like Stockholm Syndrome for bureaucracies. Either because you fear the lobbying clout of people upset with your decisions, or because you really don't want to be "not a team player", you start getting really softball regulation.
Bad incentive structure: Defining good metrics for productivity is hard. Defining bad ones is easy. It would be totally believable that, either by design or in practice, the guy who approves 10 products in a day gets more brownie points than the guy who denies 10, or carefully researches 5.
Intentional brokenness: A common(and quite sensible) defensive mechanism used by entities or industries that fear they will face conditions harmful to their interests(either regulation, consumer backlash, or both) is to pre-emptively "show their cooperation" by collaborating with their friends in legislature, or in "objective 3rd party" organizations produced for the purpose, to establish carefully broken softball standards that strongly resemble whatever reform they feared; but have little or none of the punch.
Regulatory capture refinement (Score:3, Informative)
One of the main mechanisms in "Regulatory capture" is that in order to have competent regulators, they must be hired from the same skill pool as the people working in the industry.
So the main career path for those working at the watchdog agency is to work for one of the companies they're overseeing, or less commonly, the other direction. This will at least breed an atmosphere of "being on the same team", and also gives strong incentives to outright corruption.
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With a sprinkle of voodoo economics and just plain ordinary stupidity.
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who said the bureacracy tests hardware? certification labs are supposed to do the testing. it sounds like they aren't.
Re:Like patents (Score:4, Insightful)
Well the article claims that they just accept the manufacturers test data. It's fine for a certification agency to accept testing from trusted labs but they should still be both inspecting/testing those labs procedures AND verifying that results really come from the lab they claim to come from. If they don't it renders the agencies badges far less trustworthy.
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I've been trying to figure out how they came up with the CFL saves 80% nonsense. The best bulb I've found was 64% when it was new and I have some that are past their useful life and are less efficient than incandescent bulbs. I'm not even sure how to measure the lumens from a non-point source like a spiral CFL in an accurate way. It appears that most of the bulbs that have useful ratings use the point that is the brightest and then use that light level to guess at the total lumens which will overstate th
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They need... two! Two beurocrazies!
*evil laugh*
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The sheer volume of applicants makes it infeasible for a single bureaucracy to effectively test physical hardware.
True, but it does not stop them from establishing independent testing guidelines, and allowing bidding from companies who can perform the certification (and who are accountable when something receives certification incorrectly.)
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Bullshit. If the EPA can't
to test them all, then the EPA should accredit private labs to do the testing and the manufacturer should pay the labs to produce certified results that meet EPA requirements.
The accreditation doesn't even have to cost the taxpayer anything, because the EPA can charge the labs for it.
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Sigh... looks like I need to l2preview =(
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The sheer volume of applicants makes it infeasible for a single bureaucracy to effectively test physical hardware.
Why?
Somebody has to do the testing, What does it matter who pays their pay check?
If the Testing firm had to be a regulated by the EPA perhaps we wouldn't have to pay for all of it.
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Simple solution: You set the stakes higher, until you can process them, and thereby become more exclusive. Let them do the work, if they want a certification. In way that makes it very easy and quick for you to verify it. (But don’t use money as a blocker, as that harms small companies who are great but can’t afford it yet.)
Re:Like patents (Score:5, Interesting)
No, the problem is that this was a program written by industry lobbyists. It is completely voluntary and the test results are self reported.
From TFA:
On the plus side though,this was discovered by the GAO making it an excellent example of what well reasoned regulation and oversight can accomplish. Now if we can get a few Republicans to vote for the new Consumer Protection Agency that Obama wants in the Financial Regulation Reform bill we would start to see more of these abuses brought to light.
So, its a marketing label only (Score:3, Informative)
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Pretty much. I for one cannot wait to see what they do with Carbon caps and labels for that one...
Re:So, its a marketing label only (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:So, its a marketing label only (Score:5, Insightful)
The people who will make the money in that market will be both the driving force and the authors of the legislation.
Re:So, its a marketing label only (Score:5, Funny)
They should tax having sex. After all, babies are made of carbon.
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Hey, you insensitive clod, I'm a /.er that has had sex!
Re:So, its a marketing label only (Score:5, Funny)
Ah, but they are energy efficient.............. compared to a short circuit, or a 100 ohm resistor in parallel with the device.
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IIRC there was a front page story a long time ago about this; it was about some HDTVs that got this label which used obscene amounts of power even when they were turned "off".
Re:So, its a marketing label only (Score:4, Informative)
That one was more a methodology issue than a fraud issue. Energy star only set standards for when the TV was in regular standby and when it was running, not for when it was "in standby but trying to update the EPG and so the tuner is on". Furthermore it turned out that some TVs could spend a LOT of time in this state.
Never, ever, ever, ever trust the government (Score:4, Insightful)
Bernie Madoff stole 50 billion dollars right under the SEC and FINRA's noses. Unlike private agencies like the UL that face the threat of extinction if they ruin their brand, government agencies routinely screw up, screw the people they're supposed to protect and get more money for their failures.
Stop flying off the deep end. (Score:4, Interesting)
Of course the GAO is a government office, so if I'm not supposed to trust the government...
I'd rather not throw the baby out with the bathwater. I can think of plenty of places where the government is trustworthy: I trust them to bend over for corporate power in a heartbeat. Corporations no doubt benefit from a sham stamp of approval like "Energy Star" to help sell products. Private organizations do plenty of harm (Dow Chemical and Bhopal, war profiteering, financing campaigns that weaken consumer protections, the movie "The Corporation" is filled with more examples) and that harm is (by design) beyond any democratic relief or judicial oversight; we don't need more of that. On issues of life and death, war and peace, it's clear that the US government is plenty willing to keep wars, banks, and now HMOs financed with taxpayer dollars while its citizens suffer; plenty of examples of government-corporate working against the people. People need to fix this not think government is something to throw away. The power of government can be turned to benefit its people.
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I think you're both right.
The fix might not be to throw the government away, but it may be to throw *this* government away. The whole notion that people can keep playing "games as usual" is a bit problematic. There is no way to lawfully force a collective "vote of no confidence" in the entire executive branch and fire *all of them* at once and immediately have new elections. Every two years we can at most turn over about half the system--and that lets the last batch of people get corrupted and gain senio
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If you're in that seat today you're gone. I don't care who you are. Demonstrably, you have failed. Let's try someone new.
Repeat in 2 years.
Granted, the 2-4-6 year crossover will corrupt
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The problem with your theory is that the people who will likely revolt in this country are the libertarian right which would only exacerbate the problem. If you think these types of corporate abuses are bad when the government is in the pockets of industry just wait until there really is no government to speak of.
The only way this is really going to be fixed is for the well reasoned majority that elected Obama to rally and keep Democrats in control so at least no more ground is lost. Hopefully then, the l
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Re:Never, ever, ever, ever trust the government (Score:5, Insightful)
This kind of comments make me want to return to Europe. I've been living in US for a couple of years now, I have a 6 figure salary and you know what: I hate paying so little in taxes. Because you get what you pay for. In USA you have small government, no taxes and hence everyone gets routinely screwed up by private sector: I have never paid so much in telecommunications, so much in healthcare costs for the shittiest service ever and I just punctured tire on my audi last week because of a massive pothole on a *freeway*. But as long as you get screwed by private sector everyone is happy. And then because one gov service is bad, everybody starts screaming big government is the root of all evil. For fuck sake, have you people ever tried trains in germany or healthcare in UK? USA could have been such a good country, food can be so amazing in NY and multiculturalism beats everybody else, but if people were just a little bit more sensible brained....
Re:Never, ever, ever, ever trust the government (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't think it is necessarily a question of HOW MUCH in taxes, but what it is spent on. Why do we even have a government agency to put a damn energy star sticker on the side of an appliance? Simply make all manufacturers print the power draw of their item on the side of the package. Done. Anyone who gives two craps about how much power something uses can look on the package. Anyone who doesn't bother to probably wouldn't care about the whole energy star thing anyways.
That money wasted on the 'energy star' bureaucracy could have been used to fill the pothole that you hit.
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Why do we even have a government agency to put a damn energy star sticker on the side of an appliance? Simply make all manufacturers print the power draw of their item on the side of the package.
Because if you leave it to the "free market" you are actually leaving it not to a market, but to marketing, which means the customer will be fucked in two dozen ways, at least five of which you never thought possible before. Among other things they will hide it in unreadable script, invent new metrics to cover up the true meaning, of course the numbers themselves will come from rigged "tests" and have a very distant relationship to reality, if at all. You will probably find tiny-print "this appliance uses 1
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Because you picked out one part of my argument and found that in reality what should happen, doesn't (and hey wait, it was discovered by the government) does a) not invalidate the entire argument and b) does not show that government doesn't work. At least they're able to find the flaws in their own system. I fail to see how corporations are any better or worse in this respect.
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You are missing the point. The reason government here can't fix potholes is because conservative business leaders have consistently pushed just the idea you expressed and managed to successfully disguise it as a populist, libertarian movement. Over time this becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Government is increasingly under resourced making it more ineffectual. This combined with horrible campaign finance legislation has allowed industry lobbyists to essentially control the agencies which are supposed
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The reason government here can't fix potholes is because conservative business leaders have consistently pushed just the idea you expressed and managed to successfully disguise it as a populist, libertarian movement. Over time this becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
So what you're saying, is that they are right.
shows that regulation and oversight can and does have beneficial results.
Regulation and oversight is a tradition weakness of government anywhere. Sure, this can have beneficial results, but only if it is done.
Re:Never, ever, ever, ever trust the government (Score:5, Interesting)
Exactly my point. Instead of continuing down the path of smaller and more ineffective government that has put us in this position, it is time to start rebuilding the regulatory structures that the corporate right has methodically dismantled over the last thirty years with the incessant mantra of deregulation. A well reasoned regulatory structure operating as an independent agency as Obama is proposing could expose hundreds of these types of abuses. Why do you think the Republicans are opposing it so strongly? If their contributors had to actually earn their money their fundraisers might not go so well.
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These quotes are direct from wikipedia or, in the absence of a wikipedia article, from the first source I could find
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It's too bad you haven't enjoyed our semi-socialized healthcare system, where half the costs have been fronted by the government, and the other half obscured from the real purchasers by government intervention (limiting what states insurers can compete in and promoting employer-purchases insurance in lieu of insuree purchased insurance). Unfortunately, however much it may suck in your personal experience, it's not a good example for you to cite of American capitalism failing. Fyi, freeways are paid for en
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> Deregulation of the cellphone market is a rather famous example of
> where deregulation worked really well--it's an awful lot cheaper
> now than it used to be.
Well, that and a half-dozen other major factors. In fact, the cell phone market is MUCH cheaper all around the entire world than it once was. What was your point, again?
I love competition as much as the next guy but don't toot your little horn too loudly about deregulation success stories or someone will quote you one fantastic deregulation f
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The reason your telecommunications cost so much? You live in NYC. The reason for the shittiest service ever? You Live in NYC!
Right, right. Except when we complain how shitty our telecommunications service is in the United States compared to other nations, the excuse given is that the U.S. is far more rural than Asian or European countries with far faster services. Except if you happen to live in a densely populated urban area in the U.S., then you have shitty, overpriced services because you live in a hig
Re:Never, ever, ever, ever trust the government (Score:5, Insightful)
Bernie Madoff stole 50 billion dollars right under the SEC and FINRA's noses. Unlike private agencies like the UL that face the threat of extinction if they ruin their brand, government agencies routinely screw up, screw the people they're supposed to protect and get more money for their failures.
That's because the free market Republicans and Libertarians want to make sure the government can't do anything; because the market is self regulating.
When the head of the SEC doesn't believe in regulation, you can be certain that very little will be regulated.
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Don't forget that it was an individual from the private sector that independently investigated Madoff's fund and tried repeatedly to warn the government, which continued to tell investors that Madoff was a-ok.
Re:Never, ever, ever, ever trust the government (Score:5, Insightful)
From that I take it that you just closed your eyes and fled from this story? Government busting government doing bad things. BTW, there was nothing stopping a private company from trying this, but government did it. I guess it isn't all bad? They are improving or does that anger you? I don't know these days with anti-government types.
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And it’s your fault. They are your employees! Fire them, or shut the fuck up!
If you don’t stand by your rules, but put up with shit, obviously others will walk all over you.
(If voting isn’t effective anymore, there are other ways.)
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Oh, and “but what can one person do?” is not an excuse but the cause of its own problem, because it’s circular reasoning. Others wouldn’t be the only ones, if someone started it. Someone — as in you (or in my case me). Not as in “Anyone but me, so I can continue to use it as an excuse, just like everybody else.”
(Yep, I’m working hard on changing what I can in this world, so what I think is better for us all, has a bigger chance of coming true.)
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Re:Never, ever, ever, ever trust the government (Score:5, Informative)
As somebody who works for the government, I take your comment as a personal insult.
If anything, the efficiency of the government is greater than private industry, thanks to the intense level of scrutiny we're put through. (If anything, the extensive accountability measures that we have to undergo are the one thing that hinders our efficiency)
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Wow as a Canadian please let me politely state - taxes on income do not support only health care. Oh and yes I'm in one of the higher paying tax brackets.
Just in case you missed the the point. Your argument as it refers to the Canadian tax system and it's support rate for health care is a feces loaded sandwich that your are willingly chomping down on without much research or independent thought.
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http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/ndvdls/fq/txrts-eng.html [cra-arc.gc.ca]
Highest tax rate in Canada according to this is 29% (on income over 127K canadian). Highest provincial tax rate quoted there was 17.5% on income over 62k. That makes 46.6% (presuming both are taken on the gross wages). The lowest rates are roughly 15% federal, 5% provincial giving 20% on the gross.
Where exactly do you get 40-60 percent from? I also doubt the 'word of your friend living in the UK' - I lived there for years and had the fastest service I've e
Re:Never, ever, ever, ever trust the government (Score:4, Informative)
Canadians are taxed on their income for healthcare at a tune of anywhere from 40% to 60%, yet they still have waiting lists - even for necessary surgery.
Yes, some Canadians might pay between 40% and 60% of their income as taxes. However, unless you think that 100% of all tax revenue funds healthcare, your numbers are completely out to lunch. Either I've been trolled, or you need to learn a few more things.
You must be very nimble (Score:3, Insightful)
To blow smoke up your own ass like that.
Of course you don't think you're being efficient. You can only see your small piece of the puzzle. Just because your'e not loafing and your co-workers appear to be doing the same doesn't mean that you're actually efficient about whatever it is your agency is supposed to be responsible for. And that doesn't even get into the possibility that you could be very efficiently accomplishing tasks that themselves are not actually beneficial to society.
Never underestimate t
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If you take the comment as personal insult perhap you can explain how the GAO can find this level of inco
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So you and what? three other of the govermment employees actually work?
Yes, way to hate on your fellow workers. Smashing, yeah corporatism.
You want to know why the HOV lanes work in MD and VA? Because government employees know that they are to be at work at 8:00 and they will be leaving work at 5:00 sharp and that allows them to carpool; the rest of the white collar workers in this country routinely put in uncompensated overtime that is incompatible with carpooling.
Get over your inflated egos and form a un
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The wonderful thing is that we live in a country where being rude to the government gets you no more punishment than a retort and possible loss of face among peers.
Recently I watched a video of Bush getting the living crap booed out of him at Obama's inauguration. I think it reflects badly on americans in general. However, seeing the booers not getting mowed down by tanks made me very proud to be an american.
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Yeah, that's a good thing, but that free speech we all value is constantly being eroded by the government we elect to defend it. I wonder how the founding fathers would have felt about free speech zones, having to get a permit to hold a protest, or enormous government spy agencies monitoring the communications of Americans en masse, categorizing them as "threats" based on political views or affiliations.
Don't forget that presidents in this century and the last jailed people merely for opposing their wars.
Ye
Re:Never, ever, ever, ever trust the government (Score:4, Interesting)
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When you operate with a government-granted monopoly, you get to do all the crazy things government does and get away with it. Especially when your phony ratings extend to things like government bonds which the government absolutely wants good ratings on, no matter how miserable their real financial picture is.
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It was the government that created all those distorted incentives in the first place... what with a fiat currency, interest rates at 1%, government regulations requiring banks to lend to people who couldn't afford it, government pushing Fannie and Freddie (corporations created by FDR in the New Deal) to extend their implicit government guarantee to sub-prime mortgages...
And you still think we should trust the bastards to watch our back? They didn't just miss all of this stuff, they lit the fire and then pou
Lawl. (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Lawl. (Score:5, Insightful)
Pretty much every company bigger than 10-20 employees has some sort of auditing system in place. Auditing is a good practice, and catches things such as this -- the only difference with the government is that audits are made public.
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Would you prefer that the government adopt a "see no evil" approach to auditing its operations?
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Energy Star is supposed to certify products with 'good' energy efficiencies.
They were audited by an organization that analyzes organizational efficiencies.
Energy Star was efficient in terms of being able to certify many products, but from the audit standpoint, they are not an exercising the quality of a should-be efficiently organization.
I-R-O-N-Y.
Plus, if they were to adopt a see-no-evil approach, instead of eliminating audit
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I don't mind that one government agency is checking up on another. My big question (that I already know the answer to) is: What will happen to those people who let these bogus products get through the system?
***spoiler alert***
answer: nothing
So what is the point of checking on them if no one is fired/jailed?
The question is, (Score:5, Funny)
Where the hell can I buy the gasoline powered alarm clock? That's an awesome idea and I don't care how many energy stars it gets, I just want it right now.
Cool! (Score:3, Funny)
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But I want a dirty coal lawn mower penis implant / knife-wrench! I like hot and steamy and dirty! ;)
heh! gas powered clock (Score:2)
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The diesel model suffered from wet stacking.
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There's talk of a new coal/steam hybrid alarm clock that could leave all these for dead, its both more efficient (per ton of fossil fuels needed to run per hour) and it has a 100% wake up rate, even among the deaf! (heat generated by the device exceeds that of a reasonably comfortable oven).
Now our engineers are working on the next version, a fusion based alarm clock, it uses a lot less raw materiel than ANY similar units and has the added benefit of a small nigh light you can read by!
For a sticker? (Score:2)
I've just been printing my own EnergyStar stickers. Why waste time with bogus product tests?
Wait, what? (Score:2)
In addition, four fictional manufacturers run by fake people
How can fake people run a company? I'd seriously like to know, because it could save my company a lot of money in labor costs, if I could get non-existent people to do the work.
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That scrapping sound you hear ... (Score:2)
... is the sound of thousands of spurned perpetual motion machine inventors dragging their creations out of the closet for their Energy Star photo op.
"Hey hon'. Have you seen my two hundred mile per gallon carburetor prototype anywhere?"
"You weren't using it dear. And it makes a beatiful flower pot."
UL never had this issue. (Score:2)
gasoline alarm clock (Score:5, Funny)
The other problem is big things get certified (Score:3, Insightful)
So let's say there's two of us and we only need a 12 CU FT refrigerator, but I like beer a lot so I buy a 26 CU FT Energy Star fridge.
The standard tells me I did a good thing, but I know, deep inside, that I'm being an environmental bonehead.
I just bought the hybrid humvee of refrigerators, and I got a gold star for it.
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Except this isn't an example of either the efficiency or effectiveness of "centralized control". Centralized control would be if the government operated its own testing labs and certified itself whether products are Energy Star compliant or not. Instead, they're relying on the private sector producers of the products themselves to supply their own data, with entirely predictable results.
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