Apple To Sell Wi-Fi-less iPhone In China 114
Hugh Pickens writes "Business Week reports that the Chinese government has received an application from Apple seeking a Network Access License to sell the iPhone for officially-sanctioned use in the country. However, the application is for an iPhone that does not include Wi-Fi connectivity, a sticking point in negotiations with the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology, which wants the phone to only run on the cellular networks. 'Apple was hellbent on having the iPhone be Wi-Fi-enabled,' says analyst Matt Mathison. 'The Chinese government has been just as adamant that it not be.' For many years now, China ministry officials told wireless consumers that Wi-Fi would not be allowed on mobile phones for fear that consumers might be tempted to illegally load VoIP apps and make calls over the Net, undermining carriers' interests. However Glenn Fleishman says that China uses WAPI, a homegrown proprietary extension to Wi-Fi that only a handful of Chinese manufacturers have access to, and that equipment sold in China must have WAPI support and chips made in China. Fleishman speculates that China's WAPI standard contains backdoor technology to allow China to monitor any communications sent over 'secure' links."
Load illegal applications? (Score:3, Interesting)
Since when has loading an application on the iphone been illegal ? Mind this is Apple!
VoIP is illegal? (Score:1)
iPhone gets wifi at home, Starbucks, ... places where the user directly or indirectly pays for the wifi. If they are allowed to use VoIP on the laptop, then why can't they use VoIP on the iPhone? If there is no wifi in the area, then the user must use the cellular network, anyways. It sounds as if there is a secondary interest, "to allow China to monitor any communications sent over 'secure' links." I suppose cellular networks may be easier to monitor than VoIP on the internet.
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Who says they can use VOIP on the laptop?
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Since we're talking about china >.
Re:Load illegal applications? (Score:5, Informative)
You noted that the story is from China? And are aware that China has different laws than the US? It appears that VOIP capability on cell phones is indeed illegal in China, which would make loading such an app on an iPhone (or Blackberry, or Pre) in China indeed illegal.
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Makes me wonder - how many chinese don't just import the phone from elsewhere and unlock it? :\ China freaks me right the heck out. Breathing soon to be illegal, breeding semi-illegal, looking at government employees funny, illegal...
Idiocy.
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Double hobble (Score:1, Flamebait)
It's bad enough that Apple loads their phone with anti-features, here's an edition which the Chinese government also gets the privilege of crippling even further. What's next, a special edition shipped with elephant poop? Knowing Apple and knowing consumers, that will just make it sell better... *sigh*
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You have noticed that virtually any cell phone you get from any carrier is crippled somehow, have you not?
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Nope. I hear you Americans have it tough though.
Re:Double hobble (Score:5, Insightful)
How many Nokia and Sony Ericsson phones supported WiFi in Europe at the release of the iPhone?
How many US phones supported WiFi at the release of the iPhone? Not very many. Verizon Wireless had been staunchly opposed to functional WiFi (and Bluetooth) on its phones, and Apple essentially forced AT&T into being cool with WiFi because in 1997 AT&T could barely support the EDGE traffic generated by iPhone users.
Note that the China-export versions of Nokia's flagship N95 do not support WiFi, for the same reason.
And what are these anti-features of the iPhone? You mean a battery that doesn't fall out when you drop the phone? A camera with less than 8MP in its tiny sensor so that you can't record noise? A software platform that keeps requiring you to buy apps that don't exist for Symbian or other struggling platforms? A browser that not only works, but looks so good it has the rest of the industry in an embarrassed panic to clone it? Or are you just dropping turd bombs because you're bitter that Apple released a good product that a lot of people like?
Apple launches HTTP Live Streaming standard in iPhone 3.0 [roughlydrafted.com]
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I'm 100% with you, but you've got to remember that Apple is a corporation that is only out to make money. They don't even care about not being evil like Google. They probably determined that neutering their iphone for China would give them the best profit, just like all of their other product "oversight" has been working in the West.
Sure, as techies we think it is annoying, but mommy is happy to buy a "porn-free" phone for her little Johnny and she is also happy that her iMac "just works."
typo (Score:2)
What's next, a special edition shipped with elephant poop? Knowing Apple and knowing consumers, that will just make it sell better... *sigh*
Did you mean "smell better"?
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The Chinese gov't is pretty good at dictating requirements for products that their slaves er citizens can use to communicate with one another and the outside world. It's relatively easy to monitor/control the cellular network.
Cell phones having wifi would essentially mean thousands of mobile wireless access points, that can directly communicate with one another, and that communication would not be easy to monitor or control.
This is no different from the Chinese gov't requiring spyware to be pre-installed o
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WAPI not for the proles (Score:5, Informative)
WAPI is only for the inner party. The proles get bog standard WPA2 consumer equipment.
Also, Chinese consumers will get the WiFi enabled one on the black-market.
In general, the more government interference, the better developed the black-market will be.
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More government interference means more enforcement and a more sophisticated and much more expensive black market. This means far fewer sales of the banned product.
Black markets are large for items that are banned but have weak enforcement and small penalties.
Additionally, Apple highly controls the sale of iPhones, so a black marketer cannot just buy a bunch in one locale and sell them in another.
An iPhone is expensive to begin with. A large premium will skyrocket the price of black market iPhone. The va
Re:WAPI not for the proles (Score:5, Interesting)
An iPhone is expensive to begin with. A large premium will skyrocket the price of black market iPhone. The vast majority of the Chinese iPhone purchasers will not pay this premium for a single feature.
A large part of having an iPhone is that it is a status symbol. Except for a few rich geeks, that does not change much by having wifi enabled.
The market will be miniscule.
Tell that to all the regular Chinese people who have iPhones. Not super rich geeks.
They are sold very cheaply. Most likely they have "fallen off the truck" shortly after leaving the Chinese factory they are made in.
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Actually, Apple has been selling iPhones liberally in Singapore and Taiwan (?) with none of the restrictions it put on sales in the US and Europe precisely to create a black market supply for China.
The people getting the iPhone in China are not rice paddy peasants, they are the urban rich, and there are shitloads of them. The mobile market in China is already absurdly big. In a report on notes from Analyst Shaw Wu of Kaufman Bros, AppleInsider wrote:
"[China Unicom,] the smaller of the two Chinese carriers h
It's all about the benjamins...er....yuan (Score:5, Informative)
Let me translate:
Illegally load VOIP apps and make calls over the net = cut into the revenue stream for one of the state owned telecom monopolies that doles out substantial sums to friends/relatives/mistresses of the same folks that regulate the telecom industry in the country.
You don't really think those government functionaries who earn the legitimate equivalent of a secretary's salary in the west can afford the garages full of luxury cars, the multiple homes, and the expense of sending their children to overseas universities, eh?
Welcome to China.
Re:It's all about the benjamins...er....yuan (Score:4, Insightful)
No, much more suspect than that -- Illegally load VoIP apps and make calls over the net = circumvent china's state surveillance.
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Skype is actually perfectly legal in china. So I am not entirely sure what VOIP apps have to do with sureillance - they can simply use a laptop instead
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Your subject "It's all about the benjamins...er....yuan" would be nicer if it would say quai instead of yuan. You use the informal name for a dollar, and quai is the colloquial noun. I lived in Shanghai for a couple of months and I have never heard anyone say yuan, only quai.
Just showing off my l33t Chinese skillz :-)
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I'm pretty sure kuai is the measure word for currency, i.e. it follows a number.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_classifier [wikipedia.org]
Renminbi (=People's currency) is the official name of the currency and yuan is the main currency unit.
In Taiwan the currency is different, it is the New Taiwan Dollar, but people still say for example yi bai kuai for one hundred NTD.
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And what does our FCC think about this? (Score:5, Insightful)
The FCC is the American version of China's MIIT.
If you think the MIIT has that much power over the Chinese people, how much more power does the FCC have over the entire world?
It's funny, there are so many similarities between China and the U.S. Both are huge world powers that use their military and economic power to intimidate neighbors. Both are led by an oligarchy of unremovable political parties. And both have populaces that are brainwashed and fiercely patriotic.
China is a good mirror of ourselves, so when this type of thing comes up, it's a good idea to take note and think about how we ourselves are being manipulated right here at home.
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The FCC is the American version of China's MIIT.
If you think the MIIT has that much power over the Chinese people, how much more power does the FCC have over the entire world?
It's funny, there are so many similarities between China and the U.S. Both are huge world powers that use their military and economic power to intimidate neighbors. Both are led by an oligarchy of unremovable political parties. And both have populaces that are brainwashed and fiercely patriotic.
China is a good mirror of ourselves, so when this type of thing comes up, it's a good idea to take note and think about how we ourselves are being manipulated right here at home.
If only I had mod points...Your entirely correct. The population here in the US looks down on China, as if we have no similarities and they're inferior when in fact we're so much alike.
Re:And what does our FCC think about this? (Score:5, Informative)
Go out in the street, stand in front of your local courthouse, and chant "The FCC is killing babies." Now, go try the same thing in China, except substitute "The MIIT is killing babies." See how far you get. Come back and let us know how it went.
There is a substantial danger that the US will become China, but the actions of the FCC WRT licensing are not an example of such a warning sign. The actions of the FCC Re: "obscenity" are that warning sign.
It's unfortunate that you were modded Troll, though... Every word of this sentence is true:
It's funny, there are so many similarities between China and the U.S. Both are huge world powers that use their military and economic power to intimidate neighbors. Both are led by an oligarchy of unremovable political parties. And both have populaces that are brainwashed and fiercely patriotic.
Every word of this sentence is highly defensible, and more to the point ontopic when we're talking about Chinese oppression.
Re:And what does our FCC think about this? (Score:5, Funny)
Go out in the street, stand in front of your local courthouse, and chant "The FCC is killing babies."
You should really go try this first in the US and see how far you get.
Re:And what does our FCC think about this? (Score:5, Funny)
Go out in the street, stand in front of your local courthouse, and chant "The FCC is killing babies."
You should really go try this first in the US and see how far you get.
Okay, you try it in China while I try it in the USA. Ready? 1 2 3 GO!
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What is China doing here is taken straight from the Evil empire's best practices manual.
Re:And what does our FCC think about this? (Score:4, Insightful)
Can you stand up to the gov' in any western country either?
You go to a protest, get filmed, facial matched, and get a note in a record. You go for something that requires security clearance and you get denied without reason.
NASA employees and other linked agencies only recently had to reveal all protests they had been in for review. If they failed to list something that might be grounds for termination (and they might be terminated for taking part).
I wouldn't go to a protest. Luckily you can still show civil disobedience online, via letter, and in-person but they're already starting to crack down on the Internet.
PS - This post isn't aimed at the US. The UK, Australia, and France immediately come to mind.
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Can you stand up to the gov' in any western country either?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Bernstein [wikipedia.org]
Bernstein brought the court case Bernstein v. United States. The ruling in the case declared software as protected speech under the First Amendment, and national restrictions on encryption software were overturned.
http://www.waemploymentlawblog.com/blog/2008/09/transsexual-wins-sex-discrimination-lawsuit-against-federal-government.html [waemploymentlawblog.com]
Transsexual Wins Sex Discrimination Lawsuit Against Federal Government
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_Ridge#Aftermath [wikipedia.org]
The
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Can you stand up to the gov' in any western country either?
You go to a protest, get filmed, facial matched, and get a note in a record. You go for something that requires security clearance and you get denied without reason.
Certainly. Western courts are pretty good at challenging government authority; and we have a real ballot box when we decide to use it.
NASA employees and other linked agencies only recently had to reveal all protests they had been in for review. If they failed to list something that might be grounds for termination (and they might be terminated for taking part).
Certainly they want to know - just like they want to know affairs, business deals, etc. - they want to minimize the chance of blackmail. If they already know, then it's a lot harder to blackmail an employee. The main concern is if you are hiding something, rather than the actual act, so yea, failing to list something can be grounds for termination if it appears to be deli
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That's right: they want to know everything about you to "minimize the chance of blackmail". Don't you mean "to create the opportunity for blackmail" by their own management and HR staff? Or better yet, to screen you as a potential employee by any arbitrary political standard they wish, and disguise it as "not suited ot the role"? Do you really want to put all that personal information in their hands? I may be a poly-amorous gay rights activist in my spare time: do you think I should have to tell that to my
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That's right: they want to know everything about you to "minimize the chance of blackmail". Don't you mean "to create the opportunity for blackmail" by their own management and HR staff? Or better yet, to screen you as a potential employee by any arbitrary political standard they wish, and disguise it as "not suited ot the role"? Do you really want to put all that personal information in their hands? I may be a poly-amorous gay rights activist in my spare time: do you think I should have to tell that to my supervisor for a job as a Catholic school janitor?
The OP was referring to jobs requiring high security clearances, not private employers looking for janitors. Do I think it's unreasonable to dig deeply into one's private life for jobs where they can significantly impact national security if blackmailed? Yes I do think it's reasonable; your strawman not withstanding.
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It's hardly a strawman. There's very little reason to think that the prejudices and unprinted "management policies" in a high security environment are not as dangerous, if not more so, than those in the less security critical world. If they were automatically superior, we wouldn't have the unfortunately well-founded craziness of discrimination suits against the Army for the lack of female, black, or other minority officers. And there would have been no reason to have the "don't ask, don't tell" policy towar
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I wouldn't go to a protest.
The more people that have this attitude, the more trouble we'll all be in.
The people that protest are very rarely ones seeking security clearances. They do not give their secrets to people who do not agree with them unless they have to. So if they have a large enough pool of people who willingly conform, they will just pick from those.
We are not yet in an Orwellian nightmare, but we may be if we are unwilling to express our dissent. They will always attempt to take away freedom. If a security clearance is
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FCC has no absolute veto powers? [lmgtfy.com]
Re: Evil Empire? (Score:3, Funny)
What is China doing here is taken straight from the Evil empire's best practices manual.
Microsoft?
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The FCC is the American version of China's MIIT.
If you think the MIIT has that much power over the Chinese people, how much more power does the FCC have over the entire world?
It's funny, there are so many similarities between China and the U.S. Both are huge world powers that use their military and economic power to intimidate neighbors. Both are led by an oligarchy of unremovable political parties. And both have populaces that are brainwashed and fiercely patriotic.
China is a good mirror of ourselves, so when this type of thing comes up, it's a good idea to take note and think about how we ourselves are being manipulated right here at home.
Your nickname is a bit ironic here.
Try to not paint everyone with the same brush who displays a certain characteristic.
Case in point: Tank Man [wikipedia.org] versus 1999 WTO Protests in Seattle [wikipedia.org].
Neither was peaceful, but the fact I'm able to read about and discuss these past events instead of being state-censored is a pretty significant difference between the USA and China.
I realize nothing I say will change your mind, so enjoy your stereotypical view of America. [tinypic.com]
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_corruption [wikipedia.org]
We can argue about their research methods all day, but at least it's up for discussion. Unless you're looking over your shoulder and checking the window for the Chinese Death Van [usatoday.com].
For added fun, I'll include this link because it's from across the pond, and Godwins the thread in one fell s [dailymail.co.uk]
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Your nickname is a bit ironic here.
Oh, it's not ironic at all. BadAnalogy guy is a meta-troll who posts things that are blatantly factually incorrect, but gets modded up because he knows how to play on the biases that exist on Slashdot. For example, it is very popular with the "elite" Slashdot moderators to negatively compare the US to any other country in the world, no matter how despotic they are, and BadAnalogy guy did this to get moderation points here. Then somebody who actually has a clue about wh
Re:And what does our FCC think about this? (Score:5, Informative)
I know anti-US comments are an automatic +5 Insightful on Slashdot, but this is absurd.
The MIIT employs huge blocks of censors filtering content, has people arrested for using the Internet wrong, employs huge amounts of people to flood web 2.0 sites with nationalistic messages, places strict limits on the number of foreign movies that can be imported, censors the content of these movies, has banned Cannes-wining filmmaker Lou Ye from making movies for five years because his movie didn't pass government censors, blocks Youtube, Facebook, and some of the most popular internet sites on the web, cuts off all telecommunications in places where minorities are getting killed and might want to report on what's happening, and that's just a few modern examples off the top of my head.
If the FCC did all of this in the US, people (hopefully) would be revolting in the streets.
The FCC has its problems but the MIIT is a terrible monster backed up by a government with a willingness to go military on its own people, and really you're doing a disservice to the very real evilness of the MIIT by saying "Oh yeah America has a version of that too." Honestly you don't have an even casual acquaintance if you think they're fundamentally similar.
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US... people... would be revolting in the streets
Have you ever been to the U.S.?
Americans are revolting everywhere they go.
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Ain't gonna happen. Boring numbers [usdoj.gov] may tell the story, but foolish pride wins the day. Silly moderator...
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"led by an oligarchy of unremovable political parties"
Did you notice how the Republican administration and congress were removed in the last year? Maybe it took ten years of sheeping to get there, but the US eventually rejected the Republican party and moved forward, voting in numbers high enough to overcome rampant, orchestrated voter fraud by the Republicans. And when it because impossible to niggle, they (apart from Norm Coleman) stepped down without launching a military attack on civilians, and instead
Speculated Backdoor... (Score:2)
While there is a lot of speculation that China's WAPI standard would contain a backdoor, there is very little factual evidence (except to paraphrase - "it is in China's character"). The problem is that China didn't release the entire specification to the standards organisations and that is likely a large part of why their protocol was rejected.
While I have no idea if China's WAPI would contain a backdoor, I do wonder what the purpose of adding it would be. Since the internet in China is heavily monitored an
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except to paraphrase - "it is in China's character"
Security is based on a model of trust. No matter how advanced your algorithm is, it's all based on the trust you have in the other party to not divulge your secret information. It's also based on the trust you have in the vendor that sold you this secure algorithm to not have a backdoor in it.
There's just not enough of a trusting relationship between China and the western governments.
Whether there are a legion of Chinese hackers trying to digitally infiltrate other countries or not, I don't know. China coul
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Before I get anally raped. Yes, I know about the humanitarian abuses. Yes, I know they're real. I was only giving an example of why "it's in China's nature" is a valid security concern.
Speculated? (Score:2)
There is just no other reason why the Chinese government would choose its own standard.
The information ministry has already noted that mobile communications have to be "controlled". I can bet you anything that China already has in place a method to filter or control WAPI traffics.
Secure Text Message App? (Score:1)
Isn't there a iPGP or iSecure app for people to send secure text messages? How will China block that, did they get Apple to preinstall a keylogger as well?
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People have been buying WiFi-enabled phone... (Score:1)
By 'People' I mean the people from mainland China (Score:1)
I'm not sure what this 'no WiFi' thing is aiming at but be honest 802.11-capable gears have been pretty common in China. For example these 'Shanzhai' internet tablets [smartdevices.com.cn]* support 802.11b/g and I haven't seen any mention of WAPI.
* ARM11 running Linux and costs less than US$150, nice toy.
Sure, that'll work. (Score:4, Funny)
So you have a society that:
1. sells movies all over the place before they even hit the theaters,
2. sells pirated software from major companies all over the place,
3. hacks basically anything and everything just for fun,
4. probably has a nationwide pringles-can wifi darknet,
and you think you can "disable" wifi on a phone there? Yeah, good luck with that. When you're done with that, maybe you can hold back the ocean with a broom.
Re:Sure, that'll work. (Score:4, Funny)
It's not a nation of super-hackers, it's that the government basically allows or even encourages piracy, even the most popular websites (baidu.com, youku.com) heavily depend on IP piracy for their popularity. Whereas the government is taking a stand against cell phones with wifi, and Chinese cell-phones generally do not have it, aside from black-market iPhones, really.
Cell phones with a wi-fi free Chinese version don't get hacked to have wi-fi.
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It's just they're not interested in stopping it, since it only tends to hurt the companies that aren't state owned. (I can't think of any Chinese movie studios off the top of my head, I believe most of them are American)
But disabling wifi on a phone is something they can do very easily. They just don't allow the phone manufacturer to sell the phone with a wifi chip.
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Pointless (Score:5, Interesting)
I live in Shanghai. If you are on the subway during rush hour in the morning or evening, I challenge you to look around and not see someone with an iPhone. They are everywhere here. There are stores within 200 meters of my apartment that have iPhones for sale. This is a silly argument. The iPhone is readily available in China.
Here is the more interesting point. The iPhones here are all smuggled in, mostly through Hong Kong. Since they have been smuggled in, you don't have to pay import taxes. If Apple gets permission to sell an "official" iPhone, no one will buy it because you will still be able to buy a gray market iPhone for 30% less. Why would anyone pay extra for an official iPhone?
No there is a point - carrier subsidy Re:Pointless (Score:1)
By all accounts over a million (the last number I saw is 1.5m) real iPhones are in use in China, so chances are, yes, they are real.
To the person claiming that the grey market iPhones would be cheaper: if the source is HK, there they sell for 800USD -- then you need to pay the middle man and retailer on top of that. Presumably the official mainland phone will get carrier subsidy -- so yes they will be much cheaper, and that is the point...
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So they don't get arrested for having a non approved ( crippled ) one perhaps?
I don't live there so im guessing, but i would imagine that it would be a good selling point. "avoid prison, buy genuine apple"
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Just out of curiosity, how many of the iPhones that you see do you think are grey market iPhones and how many of them are shanzhai phones? This is something I've wondered because both types seem to be popular:
After China Ships Out iPhones, Smugglers Make It a Return Trip [nytimes.com]
In China, Knockoff Cellphones Are a Hit [nytimes.com]
Also, what's the prevalence of WAPI vs WiFi near where you live and work? Wikipedia says that there's a "government preference" [wikipedia.org] towards WAPI, but that it's not mandatory. Maybe the Chinese govern
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Never seen a WAPI network
China is trying to roll out its own standards to
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Exactly. In fact, it's so easy to get an unlocked iPhone 3GS in Hong Kong, and even includes full warranty service and AppleCare. Visit Apple Online Store - Hong Kong [apple.com] and you can purchase a fully-unlocked, iPhone 3GS without a contract and SIM restrictions so long as you have a Hong Kong shipping address. I'm sure the Chinese who are able to afford an iPhone 3GS will have no trouble traveling south and picking up on these phones for HK$ 6288.
What these telephone companies in China don't know is that Hong Ko
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Why would there be an import tax on something manufactured in Shenzhen?
Why not just mandate VoIP filters? (Score:3, Funny)
If the government's fear is about VoIP, why don't they just put equipment in place to block the protocol? Then again, if you think about it, it is less about VoIP and probably more of paying less to the state owned telecoms company. Its amazing, just when you think you know how totalitarian China is, you read something that makes you realise it is just a bit more.
Corporate sell-out, business as usual (Score:1, Funny)
Profits first, principles second. This is yet another example of when business leaders let greed blind them to the real costs involved. Sure, Apple will profit, but at what cost to us all? This is is just social pollution, they aren't dumping effluent into an ocean, they're dumping corruption into a society. I'm constantly surprised at just how little ethical sensitivity is seemingly required these days. Chalk up another one for the tyrants.
speculates there is a backdoor? (Score:3, Funny)
Speculates?!? Geez, its china, what would you expect?
Potentially disastrous news for SouthKorean iPhone (Score:1)
Re:Potentially disastrous news for SouthKorean iPh (Score:1)
What would you do with a GSM based iPhone in Korea ?
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All phone systems have back doors for wire taps (Score:2)
Where else (Score:1)
From the article
must have WAPI support and chips made in China
Where else would they be made?
I call BS (Score:1)
What problem is Apple having? There were some stupid laws on WIFI enabled phones, but Nokia's E-series WIFI enabled phones have already been released in China early this year.
Furthermore, there are plenty of iphones for sale in China on the black markets. Plenty of people using them on the subways and such...
Jailbreak? (Score:2)
It's not like we haven't jailbroken every version of the OS over here within days of its release. Just disable the wifi in firmware. Someone will hack it.
no wifi = no rogue nets? (Score:1)
When I was reading the summary, I was convinced it had to do with preventing people from using wifi to spawn non-filtered (local) networks to communicate. It didn't even occur to me that it might have something to do with voip.
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