AT&T Changes TOS, Limits Streaming, Tethering 86
MojoKid writes "Just one day after announcing plans to subsidize netbooks, AT&T wised up to the fact that those netbooks and connections could be used to download movies and enjoy other bandwidth-intensive applications. Apparently trying to avoid bogging down their network, the company revised its data plan service terms to single out and prohibit 'downloading movies using P2P file-sharing services, customer initiated redirection of television or other video or audio signals via any technology from a fixed location to a mobile device, and web broadcasting...' The license agreement further prohibits tethering the device to PCs or other equipment. That's a pretty strict set of rules. After all, the new terms of service seems to limit applications such as SlingPlayer, Qik, Skype, and Jaikuspot, which many AT&T customers are currently using without issue."
Update — April 4, 02:50 GMT by SS: Reader evn points out an Engadget report that AT&T quickly retracted the changes.
Already been reversed (Score:5, Informative)
Engadget is saying the terms have already been retracted [engadget.com]
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Tell that to all the people on Verizon Wireless who need service in any of the places (subway systems for example) where Verizon have paid large sums of money to ensure that they have a monopoly on service in that location.
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Wow, that was quick. I'm very surprised that AT&T didn't even try to tough it out.
AT&T executive's kid: "Waaaaah! You make me use AT&T! Waaaaah!"
AT&T executive: "There, there, it must be just a mistake..."
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AT&T is no longer the phone company. They're a phone company now. They have to care at least a little. For now.
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Except their existing TOS already explicitly prohibit streaming audio and video over their network, even though they advertised viewing YouTube video's over their 2G network 2 years ago when the original iPhone debuted.
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Funny thing is that, when giving the various plans, the selling point they list for the most expensive plans is the ability to download video and audio.
Re:Already been reversed (Score:5, Insightful)
Perhaps they realised that people pay for Internet access so they can fucking well use it.
Slashdot editors need to learn how to edit. (Score:2, Informative)
Quote from the Slashdot story: " After all, the new terms of service seems to limit applications such as SlingPlayer, Qik, Skype, and Jaikuspot, which many AT&T customers are currently using without issue."
It's JoikuSpot [joiku.com], very interesting software that makes your 3G cell phone into a wireless provider. JaikuSpot [jaiku.com] seems to be some kind of Twitter.
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It's JoikuSpot [joiku.com], very interesting software that makes your 3G cell phone into a WLAN access point. JaikuSpot [jaiku.com] seems to be some kind of Twitter.
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Okay. And why would I want to do that? (just curious)
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i use it mainly for reliable tethering, bluetooth is slow/buggy and i don't want to carry the usb cable.
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The issue: Wireless internet access provider (Score:1)
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Another example: (Score:2)
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>>>I would have thought that Slashdot editors would have learned to be editors
Well since you're being anal, I'm going to mirror that attitude and be anal too. The actual name of this software is an Asian pictogram, and therefore the English spelling is only an *approximation* of how it sounds, not the actual word (which is a symbol). And second, typing "jai" instead of "joi" appears to be a simple typo, not a capital offense.
Editors check facts, make writing clearer. (Score:1)
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And second, typing "jai" instead of "joi" appears to be a simple typo
What are editors for, if not correcting typos? Besides, it's been fairly solidly established that the "editors" at slashdot are nothing of the sort, but rather are analogous to trained chimps that have learned to click a "publish to front page" button.
argh, why? (Score:2)
"Well, yeah, the work experience kid really, really hates streaming video, and he slipped in some changes, and somehow they snuck past the entire legal department, and down to our web guys, and on to our website, y'know how it goes..."
At most, a typo slipping through might be a mista
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Is that true? If a cell provider alters the contract, you can escape from your 2 or 3 year obligation?
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http://www.ctia.org/content/index.cfm/AID/10352 [ctia.org]
and here:
http://www.wireless.att.com/learn/articles-resources/consumer-code.jsp [att.com]
The seventh right is the one that says they'll let you out of the long term agreement if they change the TOS. The code may or may not have the legal weight of
Well, you need to use the internet the right way (Score:5, Insightful)
In AT&T's world, you can have unlimited access to the Internet, provided all you want to do is look at static web pages and check your email.
Re:Well, you need to use the internet the right wa (Score:5, Insightful)
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A lot of buffets now have time limits, i.e. "All you can eat - 90 minute seating limit".
They also can and will ask you to leave for eating too much. One of my good friends has been asked to leave several times. Ironically, he's in incredibly good shape and probably weighs around 140-150 - he just has an insane metabolism.
Re:Well, you need to use the internet the right wa (Score:2)
Internet access is becoming a tremendous issue for (American) cellular providers (I can't speak for the rest of the world's markets). The technology is there to allow them to effectively be wireless ISPs with extremely wide coverage, but the infrastructure most likely isn't up to snuff for that, and there's potentially more money to be made by nickel-and-diming for everything through a closed and restrictive service rather than act as a dumb pipe to the internet. There's some pretty strong demand though for
Re:Well, you need to use the internet the right wa (Score:5, Funny)
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My god, it <blink>s!
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Re:Well, you need to use the internet the right wa (Score:4, Informative)
Simple solution (Score:1, Insightful)
Don't use AT&T as your provider.
Already retracted and Apologized. (Score:4, Funny)
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wow...tuff crowd...dunno how it's offtopic...the changes to the ToS was retracted...it was reported as such on multiple sites.
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You're right, the proper mod is -1 Redundant.
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You're right, the proper mod is -1 Redundant.
Or +1 Caught in the act?
Didn't Microsoft try out the idea of limiting the number of times a copy of Vista could be installed until a lot of people objected?
Pretty simple formula..
Publish a "really pushing it" TOC revision.
Observe reaction.
If enough people complain and threaten to leave, push out revision 2 and claim horrible mistake. Otherwise, you got away with it.
To Avoid Bogging Down Their Network? (Score:3, Interesting)
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Perhaps they should worry less about the 3 guys who can be bothered to figure out how to tether their netbook and add some more pipes instead...
I believe the correct term is "tubes".
You're not thinking of the shareholders (Score:2)
..or the management of the company that's rewarded by the shareholders when you discuss your silly little proposition to actually add value to AT&T's services.
Adding pipes requires investing money. Invested money is money that can't be returned to the shareholders and more particularly can't be used to support positive evaluations of short-term management performance. So why, exactly, would anyone in charge of making decisions at AT&T feel any need whatsoever to invest in more bandwidth?
And that's j
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I notice that all of the broadband providers advertise endless about how studly their network is while constantly whining to regulators about how it's coming apart under load.
Existing customers? (Score:5, Insightful)
First, yes, I know people have posted that ATT has already retracted this particular TOS.
But, I have a more general question. When I sign a contract with any mobile company for service, shouldn't the TOS be fixed at that point? If ATT (or whoever the mobile co is) wants to require me to accept new TOS in the future, does that entitle me to get out of the contract without an early-termination fee?
Seems to me that a contract where one party can change the terms at any time and I must accept those terms without being able to terminate the contract, is a pretty darn aweful contract. So aweful, I would think it would be illegal?
Re:Existing customers? (Score:4, Informative)
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So, if you want to speculate that as they see more of these devices on their network they'll be forced to introduce such terms, now would be the time to sign up.
Re:Existing customers? (Score:4, Informative)
Yes you have (typically) 30 days from when they change the TOS to terminate your contract at no charge. My friend and his GF both terminated their phone contracts to go with a third provider so they could talk to eachother for free based on the fact that they'd upped thier SMS fees three times in the last six months without giving them written notice. If you need to dump your provider jan-feb is the time to do it, which is when your TOS are usually changed. Only noobs pay early termination fees.
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Only n00bs use credit based, per-month ripoff carriers.
Despite their exasperatingly mostly-local coverage I've been really happy with, of all outfits, MetroPCS. For less than half of the cost of most people's "real" voice-plus-data plans I have unlimited talk, unlimited text, and unlimited data to my phone or to a tethered laptop. I have no contract and can give them the finger and take my CDMA phone (which I *own* thank you very much) to any other CDMA ("3G") carrier I like: Sprint, AT&T, Cingular,
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I wasn't going to pimp my carrier but whatever. I pay $64 and change (including taxes etc) for my T-Mobile account, which includes all inclusive Blackberry service, unlimited email (through blackberry), unlimited text and unlimited (for me, its actually 1000) minutes which can be tethered to a laptop as well. I can also take my quadband curve to any of the carriers you listed. Plus T-Mobile chipped in for something like half the cost of my blackberry. Its a fucking fantastic deal.
Oh, and my phone wo
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You can take your CDMA phone to Sprint, AT&T, or Cingular? That's a neat trick, considering AT&T and Cingular are the same company and that company has a GSM network.
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In addition to GSM, it supports Dual-band 800/1900 Mhz CDMA2000 in addition to GSM. So I am correct and you sir, are wrong! You have egg on your face.
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AT&T is now Cingular and they've shut off their CDMA network in favor of GSM. Your options at this point are likely just Sprint and those that use Sprint's network, like Virgin Mobile.
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Cingular is now part of AT&T. Prior to the Cingular deal, AT&T had some CDMA networks, but they have either sold them or turned them off.
This seems to be what you mean, but you have phrased it oddly (for example, there isn't a Cingular anymore).
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Re:Existing customers? (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course, they'll do everything in their power to prevent you from noticing the changes while doing the bare minimum required to "notify" you. My credit card company is notorious for this. Whenever there's a change in the terms of service or interest rates, they mail you the notice as a tiny slip of paper with 5-point legalese text buried in an envelope that looks deceptively like a piece of junk mail, then cram the envelope full of glossy fliers advertising related "services" in hopes that you toss the whole thing out without giving it a second look.
If you find out about a pending change and you want to get out of a service contract without any fees, that's the time to do so. Of course, I'm sure if they could legally keep you from backing out without a fee, they would.
Guarding against minor changes in Terms of Service (Score:4, Interesting)
Agreed! While I still haven't figured out what to do about such notices on paper, I decided to do something about the electronic equivalent where (for example) every time I pay my cell phone bill online, they have a tiny scrolling window with the Terms & Conditions (T&C) with the "accept" and "reject" buttons.
Of course, if you don't actually check, you don't realize what a huge bunch of text there is within the tiny scrolling window. And since I pay the bill monthly, I'm not about to wade through all that text each time to see if they added a "and you owe us your first-born son" clause or something.
I wrote a quick shell script to make a comparison. Now whenever such T&C text shows up, I select the text with my mouse and run the script, which pulls text from the clipboard and compares it to a bunch of text files in a directory (which contain T&C from various web sites, services, etc). It will identify which file contains the old version of the T&C, and check if there are any changes. If there are, it will alert you.
So far I haven't found any service trying to sneak in changes yet, but I'm going to keep my guard up.
If you're interested in the script, I put it in this entry in my journal [slashdot.org]. Constructive criticism welcome. GPL.
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In the credit card industry, if you don't agree to the change of service, the credit card company simply doesn't renew your contract when it expires.
It doesn't look like they've pull the verbage yet! (Score:4, Informative)
And they must have been pretty determined to spell it out, with all the legalese you see here, so I doubt it was an accident.
Here's the text as it is still live on their site:
Prohibited and Permissible Uses: Except as may otherwise be specifically permitted or prohibited for select data plans, data sessions may be conducted only for the following purposes: (i) Internet browsing; (ii) email; and (iii) intranet access (including access to corporate intranets, email, and individual productivity applications like customer relationship management, sales force, and field service automation). While most common uses for Intranet browsing, email and intranet access are permitted by your data plan, there are certain uses that cause extreme network capacity issues and interference with the network and are therefore prohibited. Examples of prohibited uses include, without limitation, the following: (i) server devices or host computer applications, including, but not limited to, Web camera posts or broadcasts, automatic data feeds, automated machine-to-machine connections or peer-to-peer (P2P) file sharing; (ii) as a substitute or backup for private lines, landlines or full-time or dedicated data connections; (iii) "auto-responders," "cancel-bots," or similar automated or manual routines which generate excessive amounts of net traffic, or which disrupt net user groups or email use by others; (iv) "spam" or unsolicited commercial or bulk email (or activities that have the effect of facilitating unsolicited commercial email or unsolicited bulk email); (v) any activity that adversely affects the ability of other people or systems to use either AT&T's wireless services or other parties' Internet-based resources, including "denial of service" (DoS) attacks against another network host or individual user; (vi) accessing, or attempting to access without authority, the accounts of others, or to penetrate, or attempt to penetrate, security measures of AT&T's wireless network or another entity's network or systems; (vii) software or other devices that maintain continuous active Internet connections when a computer's connection would otherwise be idle or any "keep alive" functions, unless they adhere to AT&T's data retry requirements, which may be changed from time to time. This means, by way of example only, that checking email, surfing the Internet, downloading legally acquired songs, and/or visiting corporate intranets is permitted, but downloading movies using P2P file sharing services, web broadcasting, and/or for the operation of servers, telemetry devices and/or Supervisory Control and Data Acquisition devices is prohibited. Furthermore, plans(unless specifically designated for tethering usage) cannot be used for any applications that tether the device (through use of, including without limitation, connection kits, other phone/PDA-to computer accessories, Bluetooth® or any other wireless technology) to Personal Computers (including without limitation, laptops), or other equipment for any purpose. Accordingly, AT&T reserves the right to (i) deny, disconnect, modify and/or terminate Service, without notice, to anyone it believes is using the Service in any manner prohibited or whose usage adversely impacts its wireless network or service levels or hinders access to its wireless network, including without limitation, after a significant period of inactivity or after sessions of excessive usage and (ii) otherwise protect its wireless network from harm, compromised capacity or degradation in performance, which may impact legitimate data flows. You may not send solicitations to AT&T's wireless subscribers without their consent. You may not use the Services other than as intended by AT&T and applicable law. Plans are for individual, non-commercial use only and are not for resale. AT&T may, but is not required to, monitor your compliance, or the compliance of other subscribers, with AT&T's terms, conditions, or policies.
Re:It doesn't look like they've pull the verbage y (Score:1)
Might still happen (Score:2)
AT&T may have simply jumped the gun, and might still intend to promulgate these TOS in the future.
Remember how on more than one occasion the free AT&T wireless for iPhone at Starbucks / other hotspots was announced, then retracted as a mistake?
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Considering how quickly the retraction was made, isn't it more likely that they're simply waiting for their lawyers to excise the right pieces without screwing up the rest of the ToS?
This isn't just a quick sweep of the mouse followed by Backspace, here.
This is interesting... (Score:2, Interesting)
Examples of prohibited uses include, without limitation, the following:
...
(ii) as a substitute or backup for private lines, landlines or full-time or dedicated data connections;
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this seem to imply that you *must also* have dedicated home telephone *and* data service or you're violating their TOS?
If you can't offer Internet don't offer Internet (Score:2)
It's pretty simple. Dictating what customers can do with their Internet-connected computers when you are a pipe provider is a no-no. Don't go there.
You shouldn't even by listening in anyway, perverts.
If you need to charge differential monthly rates for different amounts of bandwidth used or available to differnet subscribers, then by all means create a tiered rate structure, and compete with competitors (like new wi-max services) on it.
The Internet is an open and free and flexible worldwide connection of in
Genuine bandwidth scarcity? (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm the first to argue that transfer caps on fixed broadband are bullshit: nothing but thinly-veiled attempts by cable companies to strangle video downloads in the hope of protecting their broadcast revenues.
Might mobile broadband be a different story though? There's only so much data you can push through the air on a given frequency range with a given SNR... might it be that the cellular network can't support a significant number of video-downloading mobile users? It was, after all, designed to support voice calls at somewhere around 9.6kbit/s, with data capabilities grafted on as a bit of an afterthought.
We'd all like a future in which cellular companies are generic wireless bit pipes, carrying voice, video, and everything else the internet has to offer at the best possible quality... but what kind of cellular network would it take to make that a reality? With the spectrum we have available, would we need a low-power cell on every street corner?
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Yes when you consider that a signal going over a WIRE goes JUST to you up until you get further up the stream. By that point the cables are upgraded to handle much more throughput and can, theoretically, be upgraded further or have more cables put in to handle additional traffic.
However the wireless radio is a finite resource and once you clog it up you can't just add more. Go too far up or down the spectrum and it simply isn't capable of transmitting the amount of data needed at the speed or range you ne
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Bandwidth scarcity is not an excuse for this kind of behavior. Blocking individual applications and instituting usage caps in a non-negotiable way is nothing more than protectionism from companies with outdated business models. If bandwidth scarcity is the problem, the only real solution is charging per byte transferred. That way people who want to use more can do so by simply paying more (funding infrastructure improvements), while people who want to save money can reduce usage. Simple!
The ISPs have no
Unlimited internet/cell phone use unsustainable (Score:1)
Ultimately, the notion of unlimited use of any resource is unsustainable. Why should Internet bandwidth or cell phone minutes be any different? People will simply think of ways to use the resource more and more, as we have with the Internet with uses as varied as Twitter, which use the resource lightly, to streaming movies which gobble it up.
If AT&T and other Internet and mobile phone providers simply charged a reasonable rate per GB in addition to a fixed per account administrative fee to cover per acc
They'd need to start enforcing tethering (Score:2)
for this to be an issue. I tether and pull about 5GB/mo from my non-tether-plan iPhone, mostly web but some video, music, etc. I know several people who do this as well. None of us have ever run into any trouble from this...
My view is that they don't care that much, and they include the clause so that if somebody is using it as their primary internet connection, or otherwise fucking around (hosting Slingbox or something through it) they can cut them off.
IMHO, the person using Skype - even a few times a day
Regulation (Score:3, Insightful)
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Nah, its cool. Wait until they find out what a "dollar" is in my dictionary.