The Best Computer Mice In Every Category 246
ThinSkin writes "Now that the folks at ExtremeTech have finished writing about the best keyboards for every occasion, they conclude their roundup of input devices with the best computer mice in every category, which includes ergonomic mice, gaming mice, notebook mice, and so on. While this year's crop of gaming mice didn't impress much, there were advancements in non-gaming mice and tracking, as demonstrated by Microsoft's Explorer Mouse with BlueTrack technology — which is considered more precise than optical and laser. Even ergonomic mice saw little growth in the year — prompting the reviewer to rely on the older Zero Tension Mouse as a favorite."
from the do-these-mice-work-frozen-with-no-power-s (Score:5, Funny)
Bitter much?
Re: (Score:2)
Michigander?
I neither live in Holland nor am I poultry.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
The expense is not particularly in the capital outlay, but in the logistics of ensuring that you always have fuel laid in, and that your system is always ready to go at a suitably short notice.
At work, we have to have a separate emergency power system, housed in the opposite corner of the vessel to the main engines, on a sepa
backups (Score:3, Insightful)
Well, I don't live on a ship, but I do live on the largest commercial farm in this whole area (it's not mine but I am the oldest employee here). We have automatic start and run large diesel generators to operate the farm itself, three of them needed. Those are computer controlled and have redundant wireless and hard wired controls that coordinate that with the climate control systems in the various buildings and broiler houses and the main feed from the electrical grid. They have their own bulk tanks and th
I don't care what category (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
MX518 is a great mouse and also the one I can use the longest without my arm hurting.
Laptop Mouse? (Score:3, Interesting)
My best laptop mouse is the built in touchpad.
I usually sit leaned back in my office chair with my laptop on my lap and a mouse is a waste for me.
A touchpad is also more intuitive to me, the best option that gives me all the advantages of a touchscreen and a mouse.
And those ultra tiny portable mice drive me up the walls, and besides I spend most of my day writing mails and tooling through logs on the command line... no mouse needed for vi, grep or tail thanks a lot.
only if they allow delay while typing... (Score:2, Interesting)
I have a Fujitsu tablet now, which has a trackpoint/touch stick. That works fine once calibrated, and saves some space which allows for a bigger keyboard with a smaller screen.
Keyboard trackpad! (Score:2)
I love the keyboard trackpad on laptops. I use an IBM/Lenovo UltraNav keyboard with trackpad on my desktop. It's identical to a Thinkpad keyboard, including trackpad, but it also includes a numeric keypad.
What I really like about the UltraNav is that it has three mouse buttons, most only have two.
My problem with all mice is that that they require moving your hand away from the keyboard.
Re: (Score:2)
Funny. I hate trackpads. I guess it's just personal taste.
I have trouble with click/drag, chording (middle-button functionality), etc....
Departments (Score:5, Funny)
Hey, TypoNAM:
CmdrTaco apparently hasn't given up yet. [slashdot.org]
Wikipedia Almost Reaches $6 Million Target
Posted by CmdrTaco on Wednesday December 31, @06:01AM
from the i-remember-what-heat-felt-like dept.
Microsoft Zunes Committing Mass Suicide!
Posted by CmdrTaco on Wednesday December 31, @07:04AM
from the i-bet-a-bricked-zune-is-still-warm dept.
Banned Words List Carries Its First Emoticon
Posted by CmdrTaco on Wednesday December 31, @08:08AM
from the bet-they-have-power-in-the-upper-penninsula dept.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett
Best "mouse": Logitech Trackman (Score:2, Informative)
This thing is fantastic -- imagine not having to move your arm and wrist in order to move the cursor. I'm kind of surprised that I haven't seen more people using them, although they do take a couple of days to get used to. However, once you're accustomed to it there is no going back.
Re: (Score:2)
Trackballs in general got shafted. I love my Kensington Expert Mouse trackball. Horrible name, though.
Re: (Score:2)
Yep, I have a Logitech Trackman Wheel on all my computers.. Have never found anything even close. The thumb-action is ideal.
I do wish they'd come out with a bluetooth version for laptops, though... Their wireless dongle is too big for portable use...
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
My major beef with all the mice presented & with the article is that NONE of the mice shown are bluetooth models.
Every laptop I have bought over the past 5 years has had Bluetooth pre-installed to be able to sync/transfer files to/from my cellphone. I will NOT condemn a USB port just to communicate with some mouse's non-standard RF when my PC already has a usable means of communicating with my mouse.
Bluetooth royalty (Score:3, Interesting)
I will NOT condemn a USB port just to communicate with some mouse's non-standard RF when my PC already has a usable means of communicating with my mouse.
Then get a hub. As I understand it, Bluetooth mice cost more because Bluetooth is patented with a nonzero royalty.
Re: (Score:2)
On the other hand, the couple of times I've setup bluetooth devices with phones, its still not instantly re-paired, so in that respect even a wired or wireless USB mouse might be more convenient
My general conclusion is that for now bluetooth devices are a pain to use, though I'd read the next version is suppo
Re: (Score:2)
Here's a Bluetooth mouse review for you, then:
For the past few years, I've used a Logitech V270 Bluetooth mouse with my laptop. It's just awesome -- fast enough to avoid getting confused in games, accurate enough that I don't get angry with it when using Photoshop, small enough that it fits into the laptop bag easily, large enough that it's easy to use, and the batteries last long enough that they go for about six months. And it was cheap: About $30, IIRC.
Other neat tricks: The mouse will operate just f
Re: (Score:2)
Bluetooth is a security nightmare. (Seriously, enable it at your own risk in an urban environment.)
Bluetooth mice also eat batteries like crazy and have to deal with a relatively complicated communications stack making them glitch-prone. Logitech's RF protocol is mature, demands very low power consumption (battery charge lasts months, not days), works as smoothly (low latency) as a wire, and is secure enough for mousing use.
Bluetooth is a nice idea but in practice doesn't work as well for mice as other RF p
Re: (Score:2)
Bluetooth is a security nightmare. (Seriously, enable it at your own risk in an urban environment.)
Non-nerd questions: what security risks do bluetooth mice pose in a urban environment? If I'm using a bluetooth mouse on a street corner, someone could gain access to my computer? Wouldn't someone have to be set up nearby looking for someone using a bluetooth device hooked up to a laptop? And the main danger there I'm assuming is they could give themselves remote access via the internet?
Or are you just saying some kid with a bluetooth mouse could annoy me by controlling the pointer on my laptop :-P. I d
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
For me it takes forever to get used to, those trackmen(?) are horrible, I have helped a few people who have them and I am useless. I'm coming to the sad realization that I'm old, and my thumbs are only used to grip things and to wrap around my member. I get totally pwned at console games that require me to use my thumbs on those satanic little joysticks. I can easily hold my own with a mouse and WASD though.
Get off my lawn,
Sheldon
Re: (Score:2)
http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/mice_pointers/trackballs/devices/166&cl=US,EN [logitech.com]
This thing is fantastic -- imagine not having to move your arm and wrist in order to move the cursor. I'm kind of surprised that I haven't seen more people using them, although they do take a couple of days to get used to. However, once you're accustomed to it there is no going back.
I don't have an opposable thumb, you insensitive clod!
(Actually, I don't! I broke it three years ago.)
Re: (Score:2)
No, it's just fixed in place.
Well, it _should_ be fixed in place, but they screwed up and it moves a little, but it hurts like crazy if I touch the wrong flank of the thumb. I can have it fixed again, but I'm not really up to that. There's not much bone in there any more, it's all bone filler.
Re: (Score:2)
I have an old model of the Logitech TrackMan Marble. Its buttons were spaced wider than on the new models, so I could comfortably rest one finger on each button and a third finger on the scroll wheel. I like the newer model okay, but I wish they still made them with the widely spaced buttons.
What about Best Cheapass Mouse (Score:3, Insightful)
For all of us who buy in the bargain bins of your favorite computer retailer.
Which mouse under $10 is the best mouse?
Which mouse under $20 is the best mouse?
Which mouse under $30 is the best mouse?
This is what most of us who are cheapskates really want to know.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
You can probably find an OK mouse from under $10.00 It will probably be mechanical (mouse ball moves a 2 wheel where there are 2 contacts per wheel and its pattern of contact 1 and 2 makes it decide where the mouse is going) and last 4 years. Or the Mouse that works great except for at 4:00pm in the afternoon where the afternoon Sun goes threw the windows at the correct angle threw the mouse buttons and floods the optical sensors. Or you can find a simple 2 button mouse no wheel, that glides nicely with the
Re: (Score:2)
Those baseline MS and logitech opticals should run you about 9.99 -- 14.99 at your local office supply store. They're light, and most importantly, simple.
No crappy side-buttons to force you to handle the thing gingerly and give yourself a strain injury. What's good for gaming is not necessarily good for regular use.
Or for gaming. You've got the whole rest of the keyboard on your left hand. Do you really need two extra buttons on the mouse? Fire, scroll weapons, engage jump-pack. That's like three butt
Re: (Score:2)
Depends on what you want.
Microsoft makes nice cheap intellimouse's for normal wireless use. Like 20-30$ range.
Gaming = Logitech G5 or a cheap Razer (older gen razer's are cheap, redundant poster is redundant).
For a cheaper gaming mouse that works well with high resolution I suggest a4tech's wireless battery free NB30. It's like 10$, no batteries, no wires, just has to be on the pad it comes with.
Ergonomic = get the trackball and avoid that Evoluent mouse at all costs or you will induce carpal tunnel, especi
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I pity anyone who's never had one.
I got the creative equivalent and the laser isn't protected so even the slightest dirt makes the thing unusable.
I really need another g5.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Microsoft doesn't often do things right... but their mice and other human interface devices are superb.
I second that! I've been a microsoft mouse user for a long time, they are hard to beat. People used to see my beige Mac with a microsoft mouse on it and look at it in a lost and confused manner like a dog when you move it's food bowl.
Sheldon
Weasel words (Score:2, Insightful)
Microsoft's Explorer Mouse with BlueTrack technology--which is considered more precise than optical and laser.
If you don't actually know whether it is more precise (and I guess if you did know then you would have come straight out and said it) then at least give us some clues as to WHO it is who "considers" it to be more precise. The people selling them? An independent study? Some guy you met on the bus? Without that rather fundamental detail, the statement is completely worthless.
Re: (Score:2)
It would be worthless even with that.
The only benefits to bluetrack are that they use a custom CMOS chip instead of off the shelf items and use (supposidly) better optics. They also claim that the blue LED allows a better contrast image for their sensors, likening it to the blue lights used by CSI teams. But that sound more like market talk than actual reality.
Ugly Gaming Mice. (Score:2)
I am not sure why a Gaming Mouse has to be Butt Ugly. It is like the Ax Body spry for mice. Anyone under the age of 16 will think it looks so cool, however anyone over that age wouldn't be caught dead with it, unless it is hidden in a dark basement.
Re: (Score:2)
I am not sure why a Gaming Mouse has to be Butt Ugly. It is like the Ax Body spry for mice. Anyone under the age of 16 will think it looks so cool, however anyone over that age wouldn't be caught dead with it, unless it is hidden in a dark basement.
So, how are these a problem for us slashdotters?
Re: (Score:2)
And of the two, which do you think "gaming mice" are targeted for?
And of the two, which do you think actually worry enough about their gaming that they'd put down hard cash for a "gaming mouse"?
Are you sensing a trend?
Re: (Score:2)
And they're always cagey about the only important metric for mice wrt. gaming: dpi.
There are "high resolution mice" but they almost never say what the dpi is on the box, so you're stuck trolling Internet forums and review sites to even know what their resolution is higher than.
Re: (Score:2)
I have a razor mouse that I like the texture of and the button feel and placement (plus it isn't sprinkled with superfluous extra buttons). The first ting I did was open that bastard up and remove the blue LED's. It's a mouse, not a runway light, and stop pulsing at me.
Get off my lawn,
Sheldon
Wireless Mice Suck (Score:2)
...for gaming at least.
I've got a BlueTooth mouse, and even that has a noticeable delay that would just kill me mid frantic quake session.
2 mice FTW!
Re: (Score:2)
Software (Score:5, Insightful)
It's amusing that these guys seem to count slick mouse software as a plus. I bet most of us would rather have a mouse that doesn't need any additional software. Wireless devices don't make any sense to me either, unless you're talking about a media PC. Isn't a mouse/KB that can run out of batteries just additional complication with no benefit? And isn't a charging pad a waste of desk space?
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
I have a wired mouse and keyboard and I would love to upgrade to wireless.
However, since most of the 'acceptable' mice and keyboards I've found either have no wireless counterpart or their wireless version has custom battery packs instead of a spot for rechargable AA's. So I'm still wired.
Wireless means I no longer get frustrated by having a long FPS session interupted by the mouse wire getting caught on something and I'm suddenly trying to jerk it loose instead of aiming.
Wireless means I'm that much closer
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
I HATE CORDLESS (Score:2)
OOPS I can't use my PC for a few hours because I need to put the !@#%^!@%!#$@ mouse on the recharger!
OOPS I can't use my PC until I go to the store to buy some new batteries!!
Wireless is terrible. Should not be on any lists. (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
There is a downside for the mouse, though. The battery adds extra inertia, which adds a little resistance to all movements.
Re: (Score:2)
The downside is that the software is really, really terrible. So even when I only install it for a few minutes to configure a G9 mouse, I feel dirty.
Where I work, we are strongly advised not to install Logitech mouse drivers as it messes with the PCs. I did it anyway,
OK, that's just cool (Score:2)
Mice? (Score:2, Redundant)
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Hey, can you recommend a good text editor for that OS?
What about PROGRAMMING? (Score:2)
It was just a 'best keyboard for gaming' article.
Why only cordless mice in general category ? (Score:4, Insightful)
Coordless offer a pleasant versatility in particular when you work with someone else on the same computer or if you use a laptop. I use a cordless one for my laptop and I really don't miss those annoying cables. But cord mice are usually lighter than cordless which need they battery included. Because of this weight difference I prefer good old cordful mice for pure desktop machine.
Additional but lesser arguments again using cord everywhere are than you need to pay the additional circuit plus to recharge and recycle additional battery.
The worst trackball is better then the best mouse (Score:3, Insightful)
I still have a functioning CH Products trackball at home. Still works after 15+ YEARS as a tool. Sure, I had to open it up and clean it inside a couple of times, but I have to do that more often with mice at work, so that shouldn't matter. I also had to get a PS/2 to USB convertor for the one I have (cheaper then buying a new trackball).
I like Logitech Marble Trackballs (Score:2)
Bring back the wired mice! (Score:2)
That's what bugs me about 99% of the mice out there these days: the good ones(ie 5-buttoners) just have to be wireless. I simply don't want a wireless mouse. I like it permanently connected without having to sync, or charge batteries or have dongles to worry about. Sadly, all i could find was this okay Logitech 5-button corded mouse with smaller side buttons. My all-time fave mouse of yesteryear was the MS Explorer mice that had a whopping 5 buttons on them. I had one for work & home & wore them out
Re:Bring back the wired mice! (Score:4, Informative)
Sadly, that wasn't the best driver software out there. Many moons ago, I remember the Logitech mouse drivers let you use the scroll wheel WITHOUT having to click to focus on the window to scroll. You just moved your mouse to the zone even if it wasn't in focus. Sadly, I can't find that nowadays.
It was very buggy, so they removed it.
Try KatMouse: http://ehiti.de/katmouse/ [ehiti.de]
Re: (Score:2)
As for mice: I can't stand wireless mice, I tried one once and the weight of the battery made me feel twinges of pain in my joints after a week of use. Ugh! My all time favorite is just a simple Logitech optical mouse [logitech.com]. The first thing I do with one of thes
Re: (Score:2)
Or use OS X, where that behavior is the default.
Re: (Score:2)
I remember the Logitech mouse drivers let you use the scroll wheel WITHOUT having to click to focus on the window to scroll.
X11 does that without any additional software... Additionally, you don't need a 10MB+ resident process just to have working horizontal scroll (Logitech does this at least on XP).
22 years later and still.... (Score:2)
I've been working with computers for over 22 years now and when I was young I had a dishwasher safe mouse and keyboard. I never knew the manufacturer of it and since the house fire back then I have never found one since.
They were heavy and all you did was pop the bottom off (two thumb screws on the sides unlocked it) and you put the upper part in the top shelf of the dishwasher. Same with the keyboard and mouse.
Now with that new marine waterproofing stuff can we PLEASE GET A DISHWASHER SAFE KEYBOARD AND MOU
Not a trackball in the mix (Score:2)
Microsoft Trackball Explorer (Score:2)
Finger 1.0 (Score:2, Insightful)
Afte
Lefty or symmetrical mice (Score:3, Interesting)
This problem is often exacerbated by games like Fallout 3, in which bethesda felt the need to perma-bind numpad 7 (strafe left for us southpaws) to the 'Stop the game and open windows live' command. Is there no money in making a mirror version for those of us with a recessive gene or two?
Re: (Score:2)
Most of the Razer mice are symmetrical. I'm not a lefty, but considering my Diamondback is perfectly symmetrical, I think it would work for you just as well as it does for me. The two buttons currently under my pinky would be under your thumb and thus more accessible, while the other two side buttons would become less useful, but overall it's the same. The Diamondback has 7 buttons, and it looks like they're still available in some places, though there are a few similar models to choose from if not.
Re: (Score:2)
$100? Are we really all this insane? (Score:4, Insightful)
Who spends $80 to $100 on a mouse? Is there honestly that much "value" going into it, regardless how fancy it is? I'm calling bullshit. Geeks need to reign in their enthusiasm and just say "no" once in while to ridiculous pricing; greedy pricing only works if we're stupid enough to agree to it.
Re: (Score:2)
I'm 40. I've been using a mouse for 20 years now.
I've noticeably developed pain in my right wrist, arm and shoulder over the past ten years. It's only my mousing arm, I rarely get pains on the keyboard, but mousing causes huge grief. Most of my pain seems to relate to the act of clicking a mouse button with my fingers.
I prefer my Model M for typing, but for mice I rotate through them. My favourite is the 3m Ergonomic (especially when I click with my thumb and not my fingers). I'm dissatisfied with it o
Re: (Score:2)
Surely you must acknowledge that your predicament is outside the scope of what would be considered normal? I've been using mice for even longer than you, both professionally and personally; though I had a bit of carpal tunnel pains for a year or so, I remediated that myself and I've experienced nothing like what you described. Your pointing-device purchasing criteria are not the same as mine; your criteria almost define the mouse as a "medical device". I suppose if I were purchasing a medical device (wha
Re: (Score:2)
Anecdotally, no I consider it quite normal. It's rare that I hear of people who don't have some sort of pain after being in this industry a while unless they took precautions all along.
My point is specifically what you reference: I've stuck with the same keyboard (more or less) for the past 20 years, but these days I switch between several different models of mice. It's not typical for people to have five very different mice sitting on their desk, most will do with one or two. Even most people who get a
Re: (Score:2)
Is it possible that you're assuming there's some enormous expense that goes into them merely based on the price that is demanded? In trying to visualize the process myself, I can't justify what they're asking based on cost alone: they're pricing it based on the anticipated emotional response of consumers ("demand"), not upon the cost to manufacture.
You shouldn't have to pay $100 for that ergonomic mouse just because you need/want it really bad. That would be them profiting from (a) your misfortune or (b)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
There's quite a bit more that goes into a cell phone, in my estimation. Even so, I have no doubt some of the blingier cell phone are unfairly priced, too.
Re: (Score:2)
It shouldn't be: that ergonomic design "cost" is paid exactly once and then replicated ad infinitum. Further, ergonomics is not rocket science; it's mostly just astute observation, though I concede that is itself a skill largely absent from the general population. :-/
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
That would depend upon whether the vendor has socialist or capitalist/Darwinian ethics, wouldn't it? (I'm being kind in allowing that pure capitalism even has any ethics... truly it doesn't: it's only the intrusion of socialism into capitalism that imbues it with any ethics at all.)
My answer is that it should be somewhere in between, but a lot closer to $50.01 than $99.99.
Re: (Score:2)
Should how much you personally value or desire a thing really dictate its price, or should it be based on the more objective factors of its actual cost to manufacture?
(Disclaimer: I'm pretty much a socialist and despise subjective valuation.)
Re: (Score:2)
Because, I'm claiming, it' doesn't cost them anywhere near $100 to made the thing. There are cliches about taking advantage of other people's misfortune, so why is this okay? Need/desire/addiction isn't that far down the road from misfortune, and if it's priced as it is in anticipation of your need/desire/addiction, then that is wrong in my socialist book.
Ever read much about subjective valuation?
Poor trackballs :( (Score:2)
I still use a track ball - I love saving desk space and not having to pick-up the mouse when playing FPS games (or anything else where your movement is not confined to the range of a screen).
There is still a market for track balls. When my Microsoft Trackball Explorer [google.com] died, and I actually lost the eBay bid for one at $200.
Contour Mice - best for Unix, ergo, general (Score:2)
See:
http://www.contourdesign.com/pmo/ [contourdesign.com]
Pro's:
+ USB or PS/2
+ 3 buttons, like the creator intended
+ Multiple sizes
+ Lefty, righty models
+ Great thumb action scrollwheel and scroll-slider
Con's:
+ BIG - especially the larger sizes
+ Not 100% ergo IMO - still can have a bit of discomfort
+ Optical pickup only, no more ball model (I prefer a ball)
Definitely worth trying out.
MX518 (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Most people I know that have owned an MX developed RSI. I owned on in 2003 and had the worst RSI of my life. Logitech should be sued for that abomination!
Rest easy, "Every" now more managable, as "Four". (Score:2)
"Nobody will ever need more than four categories of keyboard/mouse usage!"
* Best General Mice
* Best Gaming Mice
* Best Ergonomic Mice
* Best Notebook Mice
What about the Best Portable Mouse? The Best Bluetooth/RF Mouse? The Best Mouse for Graphics/DTP? The Best Trackball? The Best Light Pen?
Is it time for an Ask Slashdot supplemental?
Mighty Mouse (Score:2)
Plain and simple: I love my wireless Mighty Mouse which I use with my iMac. Never liked any scroll wheel before until the scroll ball Apple added to this mouse. It is genious! Scrolling in any direction and very precise but still sensitive!
And there is no desire for a laptop mouse. The reason might be the small red dot in the center of my keyboard. The track point of IBM/Lenovo just rocks, no need to move the right hand from the keyboard to the right to grap the mouse and move back to the keyboard for typin
Re: (Score:2)
I agree the Mighty Mouse is a great general purpose mouse. Scroll wheels always hurt my wrist. The tiny scroll ball has never mad my wrist hurt and it scrolls in all directions! Gotta love that.
I also think it's just the right size. It is symmetrical, so lefties aren't left out. It's customization UI rocks and the drivers are transparent to the end user.
Other mice always require really bad drivers and even worse customization UIs. (I'm thinking of an IntelliMouse and a few Logitech mice I've owned)
The on
As any self-respecting geek would, (Score:2)
SmartShift technology on the MX Revolution (Score:2)
I was a little dismayed to see in TFA that SmartShift's "absence in more recent mice leads us to believe that consumers weren't too thrilled with it". I love the SmartShift on my MX Revolution, it's the best feature of the mouse by far and I really hope Logitech aren't dumping it for good.
In my job I'm always being sent huge source code files or CSV data that I need to quickly scroll through, and being able to give the scroll wheel a quick flick so that it switches to freewheel mode and zooms down the file
How about PS/2 mice? (Score:2)
I still use cheap PS/2 mice because 1) KVM (PS/2 and VGA only), 2) price, 3) simple.
Re:TrackPoint (Score:4, Insightful)
The biggest problem with articles like this is that there's a very wide range of tastes when it comes to input devices. I prefer a simple, wide and long [microsoft.com] mouse for my uses. If given the choice between the linked mouse and a wireless, decked out, beautiful logitech laser mouse that costs hundreds of dollars, I'd take the simple one every time.
Re:TrackPoint (Score:4, Interesting)
Back in 1999 or so I used to absolutely slay in Tribes 1 on an old ThinkPad with a TrackPoint. Oddly, I couldn't play at all with a regular mouse.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)