Steve Wozniak Predicts Death of the IPod 573
Slatterz writes "Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak, better known in the industry as 'Woz,' believes that the iPod is on its way out and has revealed his discomfort with some aspects of the iPhone. Wozniak said that the iPod has had a long time as the world's most popular media player, and that it will fall from grace due to oversupply. Wozniak also commented on the iPhone's proprietary nature and locked service provider, and compared it to Google's open Android platform. 'Consumers are not getting all they want when companies are very proprietary and lock their products down,' he said. 'I would like to write some more powerful apps than what you're allowed.'"
First post (Score:3, Insightful)
First post. damn I feel all strange./joke
Well who knows ... the hype with apple products is the reason why so many people like it. Usually it's not the "best" technology who gets approval but the one who is used by most people see Windows, we all know that it's relatively crappy but so many people use it that finally it doesn't count that much.
But clearly android phones are going to be a refreshing new option for the horrible windows mobile platform or the jail'ed Iphone.
Re:First post (Score:5, Insightful)
But clearly android phones are going to be a refreshing new option for the horrible windows mobile platform or the jail'ed Iphone.
That's assuming the android phones become more trendy that the iPhone, which is no small task.
Does anyone know of any advertising push google is attempting for the android?
Re:First post (Score:5, Insightful)
What's an "android"? Does that answer your question? ;-) I think the Ipod will be like the Walkman Cassette Player... it will be hugely popular with teens and young adults, then slowly lose market share as other "clones" compete with it, and finally die-out as a new technology comes along to replace it.
I'm not sure what could technology could replace the convenience of a portable dedicated computer that plays MP3 and MPEGs, but maybe in the year 2020 such devices will be obsolete. Perhaps the data will be directly downloadable to your brain. (shrug)
Anyway, I don't see MP3 or MPEG players dying anytime soon. The Ipod is safe.
Re:First post (Score:4, Informative)
I bought a Sansa E280 the other day (at woot) for 59 dollars.
It's got 8gig RAM, plus a microSD slot. Once I put Rockbox (!) on it, I can play flac, ogg, avi.
I'm loading last night's South Park on it right now, in fact.
It cost me 59 dollars.
I'm not so sure the iPod is "safe".
Re:First post (Score:5, Insightful)
Okay well, I got a FREE insignia player that holds 1 gigabyte... perfect for listening to an entire Teaching Company course. And it was free.
But these little anecdotes don't change the statistics - Ipod still dominates in sales. Many people say "Ipod" in the same way they say "Kleenex" or "Xeroxing" or "Hoovering". The brand name has become the thing itself. Ipod will be safe and profitable at least until 2015 (imho).
Re:First post (Score:5, Insightful)
Two days ago I would have said that you were wrong. Yesterday I had a discussion with my 9 year old daughter. She wanted an iPod. I told her she already had an mp3-player. She looked at me like the conversation had been:
Daughter: "I want a bike!"
Wise father: "But you already have a desk"
Look on daughter's face suggesting her father had completely lost it.
I tried to ask her what the difference was between an mp3-player and an iPod. Of course she couldn't tell me. That didn't make her change her mind in the least. She ended the discussion by adding "iPod" to our grocery list and leaving the kitchen.
Re:First post (Score:5, Funny)
She ended the discussion by adding "iPod" to our grocery list and leaving the kitchen.
We have never needed a "+1, Gosh Darn That's Cute!" option so sorely.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I agree! That was a cute story.
There are two possible solutions: (1) "Okay honey, if you can save $100, then you can buy an Ipod with your OWN money." This is how my own parents dissuaded me from buying a lot of un-necessary stuff. Saving $100 is hard! (when you're nine). It also taught me the value of things.
(2) "May I see your music player?"
"Here daddy."
"I'm going to take a piece of tape and write Ipod on it..... There you go."
"But that's not a real ipod!"
"No but it works exactly the same." ;-)
Re:First post (Score:5, Insightful)
It's people like your daughter that convinced me to buy some Apple stock when it took a dive with the rest of the market this week. Kids young and old aren't going to care that your 401k lost 25% this year and that your new house is now worth less than what you owe on it... they just want their damn iPod's and MacBooks for Christmas!
If they whine loudly enough, I think that most of them will get what they want.
Re:First post (Score:4, Interesting)
Some of them will get what they want. But parents on the edge will rationalize and say "this other mp3 player does the same as the iPod; I'll buy little Janey this one instead". Not to mention that when little Janey loses her $300 iPod two weeks after getting it, there's no way she's getting another one.
That's the way that iPod's market share will slowly erode. Don't get me wrong: I think that the iPod has a few more years of dominance left but the fact that you can get something else **much** cheaper is going to be a lot more important. And once there is widespread acceptance of other mp3 players then it becomes a commodity item and the race to the bottom is on. It becomes like cars, as an example. Nobody argues that the Toyota Corolla is better than a Mercedes or a Porsche, but it's still the best selling car in the world because it's cheap and it does what people need it to do.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Nobody argues that the Toyota Corolla is better than a Mercedes or a Porsche, but it's still the best selling car in the world because it's cheap and it does what people need it to do.
The problem with this analogy is that the gulf between a Porsche and a Corolla is thousands of dollars, whereas the gulf between an iPod and its competition is usually measured in the tens of dollars.
Re:First post (Score:4, Funny)
either your grocery store is much different than mine, or your kid's diet is in dire need of revision
Re:First post (Score:5, Informative)
Your daughter sees the difference, and it's a difference many of us don't "get".
iPod isn't a technology play. That ended around the time the first iPod Mini came out.
iPod is a FASHION show play.
Your daughter wants to SHOW OFF her iPod, not listen to music.
Just wait, soon she'll be asking to buy all sorts of pairs of shoes. :-)
Nothing like other MP3 Players? (Score:3, Informative)
The ipods are nothing like any other mp3 players, but off course why be logical when there is Apple hate.
The iPod is nothing like other MP3 players? Really? I mean, doesn't it play music and video?
I understand what you're trying to say (the design and interface of the iPod is superior to that of other MP3 players), but the way you say it makes it seem like the iPod is an entirely different device. It would be like me saying, "Acuras are nothing like other cars, but of course, why be logical when there is Acura hate."
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Your story reminds me of the Laura Ingalls stories I read. She and her sisters had very few possessions - corn cob dolls mostly. At Christmas or birthdays they got pieces of candy, and they thought it was the best present ever.
You don't need to bribe your kids with expensive stuff. You just need to spend time with them. Buy less things; work fewer hours; spend more time at home. (IMHO)
Re:First post (Score:5, Insightful)
And you will notice that while they may be using those terms, the actual product they are using is not a Kleenex brand tissue, a Xerox brand copy machine, or a Hoover brand vacuum. Just because people call the next generations of non-Apple branded MP3 players an "iPod" doesn't mean Apple will always be king, or outselling everyone else indefinitely.
Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:First post (Score:5, Informative)
what the hell is hoovering?
We don't use this much in the United States, but in the UK it means using a vacuum cleaner. Hoover is a brand name that (in the UK) became as synonymous with vacuum cleaners as Band-Aid did with bandages here.
Re:First post (Score:5, Funny)
>>what the hell is hoovering?
This is honest to god truth...
I was in the US in a shared house with a bunch of travelers and this American guy was vacuuming the floor with an old vacuum cleaner that was not too effective.
Him: "Damn, this vacuum cleaner sucks!!"
Me: (Laughing) "You mean it doesn't suck"
Him: "No, it sucks. It's not picking any dirt up. It sucks man, it sucks!"
It took him a while to figure out why I was laughing so much.
Re:First post (Score:5, Funny)
what the hell is hoovering?
I thought it was launching a massive tariff in the midst of a terrible economic crisis?
Re:First post (Score:4, Insightful)
Only because you think that the majority of consumers will ever care about half of those features.
I'm betting that far more people aren't even remotely interested in them. I, for instance, don't see any value in any of that stuff for me. Every time someone mentions ogg I roll my eyes, because the vast majority of consumers will never even know what it is, let alone care or be swayed by it.
As a music player, I think the iPod is very safe for now.
Cheers
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Hmm... looks like the problems still exist http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SansaFAQ [rockbox.org]
Though they're not as bad as I remembered them being. Maybe it's worth giving it a try after all.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:First post (Score:4, Insightful)
I want that chunk of electronics to do it's primary job 110% of the time. I have had almost every smartphone made, and EVERY ONE OF THEM fails to be a perfectly reliable cellphone.
it's great they glued a ipod to a phone, make sure the phone will work no matter what.
Granted, this is coming from a guy that traded his blackjack for a Openmoko freerunner. so I really am to blame for having cellphones that are not that reliable.
Re:First post (Score:5, Funny)
It does, I never have a problem sending a text. Oh do you mean posting on my Facebook wall?
Oh, oh, I know what you mean, you're talking about calling someone and talking to them. I'm pretty sure that works most the time, but to be honest I haven't used that feature in a while.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
What makes a spinning metal disc coated with magnetic material so special? Really? They are more fragile, slower, and larger than current flash. 32GB micro-SD exists now. It's a little pricey, but at current trends in the industry it'll be reasonably priced in 6 months or so.
I've got a 4G 20GB iPod sitting around because the HD died. I'm considering buying one of the flash adapters on EBay and putting a CF card in there instead.
They only benefit HDs have is price/GB. And that has eroded to the point that cu
Re:First post (Score:5, Insightful)
Granted, it isn't pushed as hard as the iPhone was, but then I didn't really see much Apple-branded advertising here in the Netherlands either. Usually the networks advertises the phones, so right now it shows that T-Mobile has more faith in the iPhone on the short term. But things can change.
The thing Android has against it is that it now runs on old-school, bulky, ugly smartphones with no real new features. That shows us that T-Mobile is targeting the youth with the iPhone and the business world with Android. But that too might change.
And don't forget the power of geeks. They usually have some money to spare for gadgets, and they won't stop talking about how great some new tech product is. Some of my friends and colleagues are waiting to see how good OpenMoko turns out, for example. And when "normal" folk hear the word Google in connection with something gadgety and flashy, they will be interested.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:First post (Score:5, Interesting)
And it will continue to not count that much...right up until a killer app is released for the Android platform which can't be ported to the iPhone because of the restrictions.
People are complaining about not being able to fiddle around with the iPod and iPhone, but that's not what's going to be the main difference. Phones and mobile devices have just started to come into the area where third-party applications can really start taking off, and as always happens with this sort of situation they'll soon be more important than first-party developed applications. Google's framework is entirely geared towards that supporting that sort of innovation, whereas Apples products are decidedly not.
Re:First post (Score:5, Insightful)
If it's a killer app that threatens the iPhone - Apple will make sure it comes to the iPhone.
They're not idiots - and have been known in the past to purchase applications or provide alternatives if they believe it is needed on their platforms.
Mike
Killer App (Score:5, Insightful)
You're right, and loathe though I am to admit it, Apple are capable of taking someone else's cool idea and frobbing the usability right up to eleven.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
And if they can't improve other people's work, they just patent it:/
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
They did kill the Newton...
I'm just sayin'.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Steve Jobs was the one that killed Newton... But all in all it all worked out for the best.
Are you kidding? Do you know how difficult it was to get an 802.11N card working with my 2100? And it still doesn't work correctly with my Apple TV.
Nope,they will repeat the same mistake as with PCs (Score:4, Insightful)
Back in the 80s you had many different kinds of PC (IBM and compatible, Apple's Mcintosh, Amiga and several others depending on the country).
Apple's one was the best, no question about it. Neat graphical interface (against MSDOS or Windows 1.x, ugh!) responsive, fast (Motorola RISC processor against Intel 8086) networked from the start (Appletalk was really user friendly compared to the abominations that existed for IBM compatibles).
But the IBM platform was open (in the sense that everybody copied it), unlike Apple's, and this created a boom which we are still enjoying (or suffering, if you consider the poor sods that continue to use Windows).
Fast Forward to today. Apple has the best platform (at least from the point of view of the market share, technically I am not so sure) but they are doing their damn best to lock it (again).
Google is creating an open architecture for mobile devices that all carriers are ready to support. This will increase the synergies (horrible but necessary word) between carriers, phone manufacturers and application developers, creating many new, exciting business possibilities.
Open (Internet, IBM PC, TCP/IP) beats closed (AOL, Mcintosh, Netware). Apple is not paying attention and clearly did not learn the lesson.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:First post (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't know how you got modded off-topic.
I have an iPhone 3G and always "umm and arr" about whether or not to jail break it.
I'll see how the android develops and make my mind up then though. It seems it lacks in a few key areas at the moment.
Jailbreaking (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:First post (Score:4, Insightful)
The only Android phone I've seen in the UK so far is locked into a T-Mobile contract, so I'd still consider the whole system 'jailed' more than most Windows based or other-OS based smartphones - despite not being quite as locked up as iPhones are.
Re:First post (Score:5, Funny)
Perhaps the other telcos are just too paranoid about a phone that users will be able to easily screw about with
Paranoid about Android? (ducks)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Where's Marvin when you need him?
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Not at all. I, for one, welcome our new Android Duck overlords.
Re:First post (Score:5, Insightful)
The measure of how "good" a technology is cannot be expressed in a vector. Just because something has a lot of bells and whistles doesn't make it "good", and just because something lacks said bells and whistles doesn't necessarily make it bad. Guess what, a lot of people liked the iPod BECAUSE they thought it was good technology. Maybe it didn't meet your needs, but just because it didn't doesn't mean that the thing is merely "hype". Get over yourself.
Re:First post (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually it usually is the "best" technology that wins -- for a certain value of "best". What technology advocates often miss is the role of things like economics and consumer behavior in "best".
MSDOS won in the 1980s, because the most people started out the decade working with typewriters and ended up working with computers. Computers were typically ordered by the truckload and in that environment the fact that MS-DOS systems were cheap was the difference between equipping 100% of the people in the department this year and 80%.
In the VHS-Betamax war, Betamax lost its early lead because Sony would not compromise picture to get longer recording time. For technology advocates, picture quality was paramount. Unfortunately, consumers just didn't care about the better picture as much as having tapes that could record enough program material.
The Android/iPod comparison is interesting... Very interesting.
The truth is, the hardware does not define the device so much any longer. The difference between an iPod touch and a PDA is completely a matter of software. But because of software (and ultimately because of marketing) a PDA is a platform, an iPod is an appliance.
Technical people look at a platform as hands down winner over any comparable appliance. That's why they do things like jail break their iPhones, or install Rockbox on their iPods. A platform can do anything an appliance can, plus anything else you might dream up. But consumers don't dream up new things to do with their tech; they buy into dreams others have had for them. If there is no killer app, they have no inclination to go hunting for one. iPod/iTunes is the killer app for Apple, packaging it as an appliance is a surer path to competitive success, provided that killer apps don't emerge on competing devices.. Apple is selling an appliance that is (a) expensive considering the technology that goes into it and (b) cheap considering the utility people get out of it.
By creating an app store, they're muddying the waters somewhat, but the app store is a marginal activity for them. It may be bet hedging; by creating a developer community, a killer app on a competing device can be ported or reproduced on the iPod. Or it may be the thin edge of a very long wedge that will shoehorn Apple back into the platform market. Or a bit of both.
As it stands, Apple is in the drivers seat. If Android takes off, they can loosen the reins a bit and stay in the game. If Android struggles, they can keep it that way, while still enjoying the fruits of their closed iTunes/iPod appliance utopia.
Re:First post (Score:4, Insightful)
Woz has always disagreed with apple's decision to cripple the iPhone. If it was wide open it would absolutely sweep the market but for some really bizzare reason, they chose to make it closed as hell and only after much complaining and hacking did they release a SDK. And now they STILL piss in everyone cheerios by killing your app if they dont like it.
Locking it to AT&T was a braindead move. I have had more problems with AT&T service than anything else. They program their cell towers to not hand off a phone call or phone if you are going from a AT&T tower to a 3rd party tower until the very last moment and that usually equals a dropped call. But wait, it really does not drop because they have to refund you for that. they let the call hang on the tower forcing you to press end. therefore YOU ended the call and you dont get a credit. I have witnessed this behaivoir on several phone models locked and unlocked and it's in their towers not in the phones.
Honestly, apple has the ability to tell cellphone companies to stuff it in their arse and release it unlocked and unencombered. but for some reason Jobs wanted to give AT&T full control overthe phone.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
the hype with apple products is the reason why so many people like it.
It certainly couldn't be that they actually make GOOD PRODUCTS that PEOPLE LIKE! No, it's the HYPE. Because you can totally remain popular for decades on hype alone while selling products nobody actually likes!
I don't think most people care that it's locked (Score:5, Informative)
I can't understand the appear of iXXXX's either. Locked proprietary technology with limited scope for a geek to truly enjoy.
What I've noticed though is that the people who buy them don't seem to care...
Sure they'll die, but I doubt they'll die just because there's something better on the market.
And as for open alternatives? I've had a Symbian phone for years. Lots of free apps and developer tools, built in GPS and great touch screen, been around for years... That didn't stop the iPhone coming out either.
GrpA
Re:I don't think most people care that it's locked (Score:4, Insightful)
What I've noticed though is that the people who buy them don't seem to care...
Perhaps not directly, but over time the Android platform will likely build up a more impressive library of apps written by tinkers and hobbyists who did care. Even non-geek users will eventually notice the difference.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Perhaps not directly, but over time the Android platform will likely build up a more impressive library of apps written by tinkers and hobbyists who did care. Even non-geek users will eventually notice the difference.
Android isn't the only mobile platform to allow 3rd party software. Some of the other ones have been around for many years. And yet, within 3 months, the iPhone and its App store beat them all and left them bloody by the roadside. Some developers are on the record stating that they made more profit in one month of App store sales than they make in a year for other mobile platforms.
I wish Google best of luck, after all competition is good. But to compete with the iPhone on that level, they'd need an end-to-e
Re:I don't think most people care that it's locked (Score:5, Insightful)
How is the parent labelled insightful? Oh I understand, its the usual FOSS love in. Android will be open and succeed in the same way that Linux has replaced every other OS on the planet. Oh, it hasn't? That would be my point then.
This sort of post is typical of slashdot in that it shows that there is a basic lack of understanding of the wider world. Non-geeks don't care what XXX is running. They just want it to be able to do what they want. They want it to be as easy as possible to use and anything else is a bonus. Apple get this. In general Slashdot users and FOSS advocates don't.
Put it another way. There are many digital music players on the market with more features than the iPod. Why does the iPod continue to dominate? Its easy to use. On the Gadget Show on UK TV this last Monday they did a comparative test between three portable video players. One was a the iRiver Clix 2, one the Archos 5, the final the iPod Touch. They had a BBC Radio 1 DJ help choose between them. He went for the iPod Touch despite it not having the best sound because it was the easiest to use and looked good.
Tru Dat (Score:3, Insightful)
They want it to be as easy as possible to use and anything else is a bonus.
Conversely, you would say that /.-ers and FOSS hippies "want it to be as easy as possible to HACK..." They find it supremely important to be able to break into a given gadget as readily as possible, else it's "closed."
Funny thing: ever since the first electrical cord was plugged into the first electrical outlet we've been dealing with NOTHING but "closed systems." Someone else above mentioned the term "appliance" as opposed to "pla
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
You know, I find that hilarious.
Darwin is STILL open source, and has always been, except for a short period when the Intel version was unreleased. But the FOSS people keep complaining about OS X being closed. Why? Because they want to run the shiny value-add parts like Aqua too! You've just illustrated the grandparent's point perfectly, and extended it to the techies as well.
Re:I don't think most people care that it's locked (Score:5, Insightful)
I can't understand the appear of iXXXX's either. Locked proprietary technology with limited scope for a geek to truly enjoy.
What I've noticed though is that the people who buy them don't seem to care...
You answered yourself with the second sentence; iPods and iPhones aren't targetted at geeks.
I'm no (current) Apple fan and don't own any Apple products. However, from a consumer POV, Apple got an awful lot of things 'right first time' with the iPod and iPhone. They're intuitive and stylish and give you the right functionality as simply as possible. It's like Nokia did when cellphones became popular a few years ago - deliver a 'must have' consumer product that feels right.
Woz is a remarkable guy, a bit of a hero to me. But he's no consumer product guru.
Re:I don't think most people care that it's locked (Score:5, Insightful)
This exemplifies your fundamental mistake. If a normal person finds themself having to use terms like "operating system", "firmware" and "crash" in relation to a telephone or a digital music player, then that is a fail. People want to make telephone calls or listen to music. They do not care about the operating system or the firmware or the ideology of the developers until the phone stops working and then they'll just start cursing it.
People might be getting more sophisticated and knowing what operating system is running on all of their personal devices, but it's not because they want to, it's because the products are crap and don't shield the consumers from their underlying workings properly.
Actually, this example demonstrates preciseley the opposite of the point you were trying to make. The phone operator is still there, it's a computer instead of a person, but the interface between the users and the operator has been simplified to the point where most of us have only the vaguest idea that it's there, how it works or what it does. We just type in the number of the person we want and we are connected. The operator is completely invisible.
Re:I don't think most people care that it's locked (Score:5, Insightful)
What I've noticed though is that the people who buy them don't seem to care...
The only reason they don't care is because they haven't seen that the grass is greener on the open side of the fence.
It is hard to miss what you don't know. But should Android or even a WinCE system get a few cool toys that apple explicitly forbids, that green light of envy will start to burn bright.
I've had a Symbian phone for years. Lots of free apps and developer tools, built in GPS and great touch screen, been around for years... That didn't stop the iPhone coming out either.
Because the iphone had a cool new interface that no other phone had. But its going to be a tough battle for Apple to keep ahead of the other platforms when they are deliberately excluding software that people want.
Re:I don't think most people care that it's locked (Score:4, Insightful)
But should Android or even a WinCE system get a few cool toys that apple explicitly forbids, that green light of envy will start to burn bright.
I'm not saying they don't exist, or that they are trivial; but please specify the types of "cool toys" that Apple explicitly forbid that aren't replacements for existing apps?
Tethering is explicitly forbidden by Apple. It's technically possible if you jailbreak it, but Apple bans apps that do it, and it's also explicitly forbidden in the contract, EULA or whatever.
they care about functionality, though (Score:5, Insightful)
End users don't care about specs, but they do care about functionality.
Features like downloading and syncing over the air, updating podcasts, shopping at multiple music stores, place shifting, better E-mail clients, and laptop Internet access matter even to non-geeks, and Apple is preventing a lot of that from happening.
I think the reason that hasn't mattered for initial iPhone sales is because most US consumers are so inexperienced with smart phones that even the iPhone seems like a big step forward and because the only other smart phones US carriers are pushing are the Blackberry and Windows Mobile shit, often with carrier restrictions. But Android and Symbian are going to change that. We'll have to see whether Apple can reverse course quickly enough, because it won't be long before regular users do care about all this.
Re:they care about functionality, though (Score:4, Interesting)
Although the parent is somewhat trollish, he is nevertheless right.
In USA, the main "experience" of smart phones prior to the iPhone are the Blackberries, which admittedly did a single job, and did it WELL.
Here in Europe, we have had smart phones for a significantly longer time. Starting with the Nokia Communicator Series, and the Ericsson PXXX series, and people buying smartphones as a "cheaper replacement" to PDAs (mobile phoen subsidies made these devices cheaper than PDAs, hence the PDA market tanking here).
The fact is, even before the iPhone was released, you already see "normal" people carryign smart phones. In fact the Nokia N95 is still a highly popular phone over here in the UK, released before the iPhone, it simply won a lot of sales, thanks to its built in GPS, Radio, decent call qaulity, 5mp camera and VGA 30fps recording. Specs that sold the device, and is still selling the device.
Many have bought the iPhone as a new device, and it has found some users for its innovations. But it is not as popular in this country, because as a smart phone, users DO find it inferior. Secondly, its call quality is NOT as good as the Nokia's and Sony Ericssons around.
It also fails in the ring tones, and MMS stuff, which ARE used a lot here. (sending email is NOT popular for impulse messages, SMS still rules, and MMS is still popular).
Anyway, we shall see.
Re:they care about functionality, though (Score:5, Insightful)
The iPod just works, and that's all there is to it. Apple got it right,
I have an iPod Touch and a Mac. There's a lot of stuff that's broken on the iPod Touch: text input is slow and error prone, screen rotation is sluggish and inconsistent, touch gestures are inconsistent, applications crash with fair frequency, the Mail interface sucks, there is no document viewer, off-line support is nearly non-existent, using it with multiple machines is impossible (laptop+desktop), and on and on. Until fairly recently, syncing often took 1/2h.
Claims that it "just works" or that "Apple got it right" are Apple marketing fluff, not reality. I looked at the iPhone as a phone for my mother (she wants to send SMS and E-mail) and it was just too complicated with syncing and software updates and soft keyboards and all that crap. She now has a phone that really "just works", and it isn't from Apple (or Microsoft).
iPhone discomfort, yes (Score:4, Insightful)
I did read tfa. His prediction on the iPod does not seem to take apple's innovation history.
I do agree with his discomfort with the iPhone. Apple had the chance to revolutionize the cell phone market in the US and flubbed it.
Re:iPhone discomfort, yes (Score:4, Informative)
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/smartphones/iphone-greedily-eats-north-american-market-share-334516.php [gizmodo.com]
This was during the quarter that Apple was basically not manufacturing 1st gen iPhones....
http://www.intomobile.com/2008/06/03/palm-centro-boosts-palm-marketshare-rim-sees-blackberry-market-share-rise-apple-loses-in-iphone-market.html [intomobile.com]
http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2227601/apple-iphone-gains-market-share [vnunet.com]
Oct 7, 2008
iTunes = malware (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
While it may not behave that well on PC, the quicktime/itunes framework on the apple platform works incredibly well.
Most people outside the PC world stare down their nose the same way at windows media files.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
So you disregard iTunes and use SharePod to copy content to and from the iPod.
Doesn't make the iPod a less great player. "locked down" in the 21st century doesn't mean anything, don't you know that? There's always some asshole somewhere that will hack / open it.
I see the same complaint about the iPhone and just shrug. It was supposed to be vendor locked. So the first thing that happened in Europe is that people hacked and opened it. There are millions of "open" iPhones in the EU.
I'm amazed nobody pointed th
Re:iTunes = malware (Score:5, Informative)
iTunes works well on Macs, where people want, and expect, things to 'just work'.
On windows platforms, where many users have been forced to learn more than they'd like to about the technical aspects, I agree that iTunes is a pain. It renames your mp3 files, reformats iPods if you try to connect to another PC, limits your ability to share file whatever.
Typical closed architecture, (reminds me of the old IBM days). Products work reasonably well within one manufacturer's range, don't play well with others.
Since all my kids have PCs and iPods, we use Mediamonkey.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediamonkey [wikipedia.org]
Works as advertised. Free version enough for most people.
Recommended. (c)Pournelle.
Out of touch (Score:5, Insightful)
I would like to write some more powerful apps than what you're allowed.
Clearly Woz is not in Apple's demographic. It's been said time and again: Apple succeeds at delivering coherent, easy-to-use products that admirably perform tasks that typical non-techy users require. As long as Apple continues to design the products with that mentality, they will do well. If the iPod/iPhone stops selling briskly, it will be because everybody who wants one already has one, not because an Android phone lets you ssh into your home slackware server.
Re:Out of touch (Score:5, Insightful)
Besides, the iPhone already is open, at least unofficially. I can in fact SSH from mine, and have been able to ever since I got it. I am a techie user, and I'm perfectly satisfied with my iPhone.
I'm sure Woz is sort of conflicted by the fact that, as much as he might want to, it would be impolitic for him to announce he had jailbroken his phone.
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
You need to realize that those "advantages" are only advantages from your point of view.
1) I don't care, as long as I get service. Of course, here in Switzerland, 2 telcos are providing service.
2) Again, so what? I'm not buying the OS, I'm buying the phone. Your second point here is one that most iPhone users wouldn't even understand.
3) Ok, this could be valid... but at 200 bucks, the iPhone is WELL below my pain threshold, and not something I'm likely to consider.
4) Are you kidding? Most of us iPhone users
Out of iTouch (Score:3, Insightful)
"Users do care about openness, not necessarily because it's openness, but rather for the things that it allows."
Correct, but it would be a false impression to think that "open" doesn't have as much a price as "proprietary". For example all the advantages you listed wouldn't be worth as much if one had to stand on their head, whistling Dixie, while hand-editing files in hexadecimal. As some open source projects are finding out it costs money to gain some of "proprietary"'s advantages. e.g ease of use.
discomfort is a feature (Score:4, Funny)
Maybe not quite in the discomfort-with-lack-of-openness sense that he meant it, but the iPhone is supposed to be a temperamental item to own, much like a Chihuaha [bogost.com].
Engineer's eyes. (Score:5, Insightful)
Woz is looking at the iPhone with engineering eyes, not consumers eyes. It's a strange culture shock to geeks when they find out the universe of non-geeks doesn't work like them. Yes, the API is locked down, yes, it is locked to a single service provider but the average user really REALLY doesn't care. Even if they do know better, they really don't care. It's why McDonald's sales are high. They know a better burger, but they don't care. I'm not sure if this is a problem or not, to be quite frank. But when a geek tells me is a better solution, they're not realizing that "better" is incredibly subjective. Yes, OpenMoko is open, but is that better to me? I don't want to edit config files unless i'm being paid for it.
Is the iPod going to die out? Sure. Not before moving much much more product in the mean time.
Re:Engineer's eyes. (Score:4, Insightful)
Regardless of where his position comes from I'll have to take my hat off to Wozniak. Generally speaking, if someone owns stock in a company they would rather stab their own grandmother in the eye than give you an honest opinion about the companies's direction. He has my respect for being something other than a good stock holder/party member.
Not blocking (Score:3, Insightful)
I doubt the iPod will go out of market because of it's limitations.
All they have to do is see they loose market share and address the issues. I know it sounds easier than it is, but the marketing team that kept the ipod where it is for so long cannot be so incompetent as to not get over it.
Perhaps a better framing would have been "iPod as it is now is on it's way out".
That said, I got myself a Sansa e280 instead of iPod, especially due to the iPod's lock-in, so take my comments with a grain of salt.
They're all going (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:They're all going (Score:4, Insightful)
Convergence is nice except everyone seems to botch the implementation.
My Sony Ericsson W300i phone/camera/"Walkman" has quite possibly the worst user interface for playing MP3's that I've ever worked with. The 640x480 camera takes horrible pictures even in bright light outdoors, and indoors, it's worthless. It has an organizer, calendar, notepad, task list, etc. but I've never used any of that stuff. I've never run into the need to schedule a meeting on my cellphone, and entering a grocery list or something with a telephone keypad takes way too long. They've even managed to make a calculator hard to use.
But, the alarm clock is a handy feature and it actually works. I use it on the road, since 4 out of 5 hotel alarm clocks don't work and 4 out of 5 front desk staff don't remember that you asked for a wake-up call.
So, I'd like to thank Sony Ericsson for creating a fabulous convergence of cellphone and portable alarm clock.
For MP3's, I'll hang onto my Sansa.
Not Apple's Demographic (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple is in the business, especially for consumer devices, of promoting solutions. This is a big differentiator from the competitors who usually focus on feature checklists and component integration.
However, someone like Woz is a hacker in the purest sense of the word - he wants to get tools and pieces that he can use to make his own solutions. An iPod he cannot change things on is not something he's interested in.
But for most people, the fascination with Apple comes simply from Apple 'getting it' - most consumers want to pay for problems to be solved for them, not to be given tools to learn to solve the problems themselves.
Woz is a genius, but not a marketplace genius (Score:5, Insightful)
Steve Wozniak is a smart guy but he is, to put it mildly, an extreme "power user". He left Apple to develop a programmable IR remote control (http://www.ktronicslc.com/core.html) with 256 functions split over 16 code pages.
It had programmable macros, scheduled timers, and absolutely no way to label what a button *does*. If the batteries ever ran down it had to be re-flashed via a serial link. It's technically sweet, it filled a niche that Woz perceived in his daily life, and it remains completely unusable for 99.9% of the world's population. (I'm sure it generated some fantastic patents, though!)
I would trust Steve Wozniak to design firmware for a battery powered car, or to build a lifesaving medical device, or to write a graphical Tetris clone that fit entirely in the unused bytes of a LILO boot sector. But I don't think his opinions on the marketability of consumer electronics are worth a damn.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Goodbye, cruel world (Score:5, Funny)
First evolution gets cancelled [slashdot.org] and now there's no more iPods? If it wasn't for the fact that I've got a ton of money in the bank I think I'd jump off a bridge.
locking the iphone to an operator (Score:3, Insightful)
Bah! (Score:4, Funny)
Wozniak must be one of those Apple haters who has never used a Mac in his life. Quick, mod him down! Oh, wait...
More people are just using their cell phones (Score:5, Interesting)
I ride on trains and a subway to work every day. About a quarter to a half of the passengers have headphones stuffed into their ears. Most of the times the headphones are connected to a cell phone, and not an MP3 player.
Granted, where I live even kids in their early teens have cell phones.
If you have a cell phone that offers good quality audio, why bother with an extra gadget?
iPod Predicts Death of Steve Wozniak (Score:3, Funny)
wow, scary!
see for yourself:
http://skitch.com/slowburn/2fyx/wozniak-death-prediction [skitch.com]
iPods won't die... (Score:4, Interesting)
iPods won't die as long as Apple keeps pumping out incremental improvements, and as long as the competition doesn't catch on to the accessory effect.
Like, say... iPod Touch with a hard disk, or with >40G of flash.
Or iPod Bluetooth, to get rid of the tether.
Or an iPod Shuffle headset.
Or ...
They've got plenty of room on the upgrade treadmill.
Normal vs. Geek (Score:5, Interesting)
T original FA (Score:3, Informative)
Re:He's a genius (Score:5, Funny)
Re:He's a genius (Score:5, Interesting)
I hate to say it, but I bought an iPod Classic 80 GB about a year ago. Before that I owned an iAudio 30GB XL player, but the screen broke on that one.
This iPod of mine is in use every day. I use it in the car (hooked up to the car stereo via a built in Aux Jack) for my 2.5 hours of commuting, I use it on planes, I hook it up to my home system to randomly meander through the 850 albums I ripped on it (it's too small though, it won't fit my entire collection). I use it at the office with my Altec Lansing travel speakers to provide me with tunes.
The battery still runs ~28 hours if I don't screw around with the screen too much, and the thing operates flawlessly. Plus, the fact that I got six ways of finding the same song (Search, Genre, Artist, Song, Album, Compilation browsing) and all the trimmings of cover information display and whatnot make it a pretty sweet device. Objectively speaking (and I didn't want to even like the iPod because I've never been a Mac fan with their closed platform bollocks), it is still the best player out there even if they're seeing competition from MicroSoft according to critics. But the market has voted with its wallet.
When this one does, I'm hoping I can replace it with the same device, except a ~250 GB Solid State version. So as long as they keep up with the Joneses, I don't see how Wozniak will be right in the foreseeable future. Then again, on a long enough time scale, and product/individual/company/society has a survival rate of zero, right? Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that axiom out.
Re:He's a genius (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:He's a genius (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:He's a genius (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually, I'm not so sure about that. If anyone other than Apple had come up with such a sleek design and neat interface, it would quite probably have done just as well. I have no quarrel with the SanDisk device mentioned by the GP, but micro-SD cards tend to hold a maximum of only 8GB (last time I looked) and the interface is IMHO only OK if you've never had better.The iPod is just a really well-thought-out product in its own right. It does (pretty much) only one thing and does it well.
Which is why, although I love my iPods, I am not considering buying an iPhone. The latter just doesn't have the storage capacity I (now) find I need, I don't need all those bells and whistles and shiny things, and I do not want any gadget that has to be charged every day, especially if the battery is non-removable.
Re:He's a genius (Score:5, Funny)
I do not want any gadget that has to be charged every day, especially if the battery is non-removable
Does that mean you're going to be selling your brain? I'm dabbling in a bit of aftermarket brain replacement, and am prepared to offer anything up to $50.
Re:He's a genius (Score:5, Interesting)
I just traded up from a Sansa e270 6gb to an iPod Nano 8gb. It is -so- much better.
Granted, I haven't put thirdparty firmware (Rockbox) on my Sansa, but I absolutely hated my Sansa. You -have- to use their proprietary software to put video on it. Guess what happens if you lose your CD? You have to BUY a new one! They won't let you download it. Apple's software (iTunes), while still proprietary, is extremely easy to get another free copy of.
I never DID get playlists to work correctly on my Sansa. Podcasts worked okay when used with iTunes, but not at all otherwise. If you put it in USB stick mode, it reports every time you unplug it.
I've never tried games on my Sansa, but games on iPod Nano 4th gen are great. They are very clear, sound great, and the accelerometer lets me play games like 'Maze' (aka Labyrinth) where you guide the ball around the maze by tilting.
I'm far from a Mac fanboy. I say 'It just works!' in a nasty tone about 3 times a day at work, where we're all on Macs and have as much problems with the Mac Pros and xServe as any Windows machine I ever used. My personal preference there is Linux, too.
But the iPod is done right. It's going to be very hard to improve on it.
Re:He's a genius (Score:5, Informative)
Not to be a prick, but I've used a Sansa (previously) and an iPod video (now) regularly, and:
1. iPod has better UI;
2. iPod has better sound quality;
3. iPod has longer battery life;
4. If I want to run Linux or develop my own infinitely configurable embedded system I have access to a dozen laptops, desktops, PDAs, phones, calculators, etc - and I do. But I use my iPod to listen to music and talk ("podcasts") and occasionally watch videos;
5. In particular, I don't use it to "play games";
6. I don't have any reason to care what detailed format the video is stored in on the iPod, since it's on there to watch, not to edit. I can resize for space before transfer if necessary;
7. Database+metadata+synchronisation are more powerful concepts than straight hierarchical filesystems, i.e. iTunes is actually quite lovely once you get used to it;
8. Finally, good luck with carrying around 80GB (per GP post) of MicroSD cards.
An average user treats an electronic device as a tool which must do one or more particular things well. An average geek treats a tool as something which can be made to do as many things as imaginable. An elitist geek treats a tool as something which must do as many things as imaginable. You appear to fit in this third category.
You're welcome to argue that you aren't interested in an iPod's particular benefits, but most people are.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
A few years ago soon after the iPods came out, they weren't good value for money on hard drive models either. Maybe the casing was a couple of mm thicker, but my iRiver had an FM radio and microphone in addition to a 2GB HD, and was still cheaper than the 20GB iPod of the time..
The only thing to "get" about the market is that the iPod is already the best known, best marketed device, with the greatest number of accessories (you even get cars that have built in docks just for iPods for crying out loud..) so t
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
oops - obviously that's meant to say 20GB HD for the iRiver, not 2GB
Re:He's a genius (Score:4, Interesting)
They're seeing competition from Microsoft according to MS's fans in the press. The market considers the Zune material for comedy. I was joking [uncyclopedia.org] when I mentioned the possibility of a Zune phone [absolutegadget.com] ...
Microsoft's problem is that Apple is clearly much better at evil these days than they are [today.com]. Microsoft used to have the best and most popular evil; these days they can't even successfully pay people [nytimes.com] to use their evil. And they've been trying for a while [arstechnica.com].
To keep on-topic, Android's main function will be to lift the iPhone's game. Existing and not sucking will be a win for Android and Google. Then, as others have noted, someone will come up with a killer Android app that leaves Apple playing catchup as they've pissed off too many developers. Interesting times and a win for credible competition. Which Microsoft just isn't in this space.
Re:He's a genius (Score:5, Interesting)
Ok, I have mixed feelings of the merits of the iPod. As a caveat, I have to mention I do own an iPod touch 16GB. I also own a Nokia n95, a SonyEricsson k800i, an iPaq, and Motorola bluetooth headphones. I have also used an iPod Shuffle, an iPod Nano, and a creative Labs Muvo.
I would be first to admit, the ipods are not all that hot in terms of features and sound quality. I have read a review earlier this year, where various music players (including phones) were tested for pure sound quality including dynamic range, etc (testing the analogue side of the hardware too). The Ipods generally came on the middle to the bottom of the range, witht he iPhone and iPod touch coming at the bottom of the ipods, and the ipod Shuffle performing best, and above average compared to other devices from other manufacturers.
The best Player Only devices were from Sony, followed very closely by Samsung and Creative. Even the Phones came very highly rated, with the SonyEriccson K800i coming on top, and only "beaten" by some really good player only devices by Sony. My Nokia N95 is also "better" than the iPods. Add to the fact that many other devices also have FM radio.
The N95 allows direct download of podcasts (something the iPhone does not allow, AND apple have banned an app that tried to allow that).
Even the so called "simplicity" of iTunes has been called to task. I now know of many other music managers that do a pretty good job of managing sound libraries. In fact, many (including Windows Media Player) can even sync with ANY standard USB Mass Storage Device. Considering that itunes cannot "monitor" a set of folders to see changes, and update a library on its own (you need to download ITLu to do that), it is poorer in many aspects.
The iPod touch does not support the Bluetooth headphones I have. The iPaq, the K800, and the N95 did. in fact, before I got the ipod touch, I used to connect my Ipaq and my k800 to the headphones simultaneously. the iPaq would feed music wirelessly, and when a phone call came through, the headset would automatically switch to the phone, and send a pause command to the iPaq, resuming automatically when the call was ended. All this happened seamlessly, and wirelessly, despite being made by different manufacturers... it "just worked".
But..... despite all this, I still use the iPod Touch.. why?
a) the iPod's screen is VERY nice, yet portable. I watch a lot of podcasts, and sometimes movies on the train to work. the N95 is not as good as the iPod.
b) ability to sync "Played" statuses between iPods and iTunes, which allows me to manage the podcasts effectively (deleting played ones in itunes). I understand this is not a very strong reason, because if I used the N95, to download (via wireless/3g) I dont even need to involve a computer in the first place.
c) On a day to day basis, I don't like my phone running out of battery. the N95 does not charge from USB, and Although it may be a better music player, I would rather have the battery for other reasons, such as making calls.
d) Maybe because I paid so much for a iPod Touch, I feel more compelled to use it. (maybe despite my better judgment, I am subconsciously attracted to "pretty things", as well as the Jobs Reality Distortion field.)
e) I am just a lazy procrastinator.
But as You can see, a lot of these reasons are flimsy at best, and I will be doing a test where I will replace my ipod with my n95 for one day, and see how that goes on the morning commute.
I am also scoping Android.....
So maybe Woz has a point.
Re:He's a genius (Score:5, Informative)