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Input Devices Hardware

OCZ's Brain Mouse Hits the Store 150

Posted by CmdrTaco from the world-will-never-be-the-same dept.
John Roller writes "Three months to the day since Slashdot originally received word that OCZ's "brain-mouse" — the Neural Impulse Actuator was ready for shipping, the first in-depth review of the device containing pictures of the retail packaging along with several videos have arrived on the internet. Overclock3D.Net got the first look at the device, and although it's still early days, they managed to play a game of "Pong" using only brain power. The article is only part one in a month-long log of using the device, but it's extremely interesting to see what the people who have pre-ordered the device can expect from it when it arrives on their doorsteps shortly."
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OCZ's Brain Mouse Hits the Store More

OCZ's Brain Mouse Hits the Store

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  • I am all for freedom from keyboard hunch

  • Hurray? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by PunkOfLinux ( 870955 ) <mewshi@mewshi.com> on Monday June 02, 2008 @11:08AM (#23627935) Homepage
    Hurrah? O.o
    This sounds interesting, at least. I wonder if it works on linux. Seriously. Does it work as a standard HID device?

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I wondered this myself, but the screenshots on the 3rd page make me think that it doesn't...

      They had a "calibration" option, and the application "profile" option (that has the word "joystick" on it).

      So out of the box Linux support doesn't look promising...

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by bloodninja ( 1291306 )

        I wondered this myself, but the screenshots on the 3rd page make me think that it doesn't...

        They had a "calibration" option, and the application "profile" option (that has the word "joystick" on it).

        So out of the box Linux support doesn't look promising...

        Exactly what I was thinking. It includes a driver CD, so even if it is HID it will not be fully functional out of the box with Linux. Here's the page where you contact OCZ and let them know that we want Linux support for this thing:
        http://www.ocztechnology.com/contact/ [ocztechnology.com]

        • Most of the mice I've seen come with a "driver disk". They come with a little program to let you configure what buttons 3,4,5,6,... do. All the mice work fine in Linux.

          • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

            by bloodninja ( 1291306 )

            All the mice work fine in Linux.
            My unfortunate experience is that mice like to turn corded peripherals into the cordless variety. I've had it happen twice, but I suppose that is the price to pay for having a pet rodent.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Fred_A ( 10934 )

            Most of the mice I've seen come with a "driver disk".

            At least some mice were weird. All "Hayes compatible" modems (were there even others) came with a "driver" that would let Windows know that +++ATH meant hang up. Back then, that was only a few years ago (or a lot, depending on your age), I found this utterly ridiculous (especially when I tried installing a modem without its driver and the $*%ù&# thing would just fail).
            <windows>like, duh</windows>

            (for those who don't know what "hayes compatible" could possibly mean, Hayes used to be a m

            • Anybody remember the prefix to dial with the Commodore modem? +AT-something or other, wow, it's been a long time...

          • Re:Hurray? (Score:4, Funny)

            by Fred_A ( 10934 ) <fred@ f r e dshome.org> on Monday June 02, 2008 @02:27PM (#23630189) Homepage

            All the mice work fine in Linux.
            Something else. That's not a given. I once (before I switched to wireless rodents) plugged in a wired Microsoft mouse into my machine.

            Well, it looked like it was behaving, but no sooner had I left my seat that it had leaped in /bin and it started trying to strangle cat(1).

            Some hardware you just can't trust.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by sowth ( 748135 )

          Do more than just ask for Linux drivers. Ask them to release programming specs, then not only will you have open source drivers, but you can also find other ways to use it...

      • That doesn't necessarily mean that it doesn't function as a standard HID device. I would love to see them port this to linux, if it doesn't already work. I would buy one JUST to support the company for making a linux version.
    • Why, sure it's a standard HID device! So get down to the ATM machine, put in your PIN number, and get some cash so you can buy one! Or, if you prefer, you can stay home and use your ADSL line to order it over the Internet. While you wait for it to arrive, you can study for your SAT tests, write some BASIC code, watch the CNN news network, learn HTML language, or just play around with your PC computer and LCD display.

  • Brain-Mouse??? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 02, 2008 @11:08AM (#23627937)
    They're Pinky and the Brain, yes Pinky and the Brain;

    One is a genius, the other's insane;

    Two laboratory mice, their genes have been spliced;

    Before each night is done their plan will be unfurled;

    By the dawning of the sun they'll take over the world;

    Their twilight campaign is easy to explain;

    To prove their mousy worth, they'll take over the earth;

    They're Pinky, They're Pinky and the Brain Brain Brain Brain Brain Brain Brain Brain Narf.
    • "Pinky, are you thinking what I'm thinking?"

      "I think so Brain, but why do I always have to wear the tutu?"

      One of the greatest cartoons of all times. That and Animaniacs wasted a lot of my Saturday mornings.
    • There's supposed to be 9 brains at the end of the song. You only put 8. Chump.
  • Not referring to the brain-to-Headset interface, but the Headset-to-NIA interface. If both were to exist, and it somehow caught on, would we see a similar market to the mouse market? Leisurely users wearing a battery-powered headset around to add to their blue-tooth cell phone earpiece, and extreme gamers with a direct wired link to their PC to get the edge on the dimwits using laggy wireless devices.

  • Great for non-gaming also (Score:5, Interesting)

    by conlaw ( 983784 ) on Monday June 02, 2008 @11:12AM (#23627985)
    Yes, this may help someone to do better in WOW or GTA IV but I'm thinking of some brilliant people whose bodies are hampered by cerebral palsy. Their main -- or sometimes only -- method of communication is through a computer which they may have trouble using because one or both of their hands is not fully functional. One of these units could make a major difference in their lives.

    Here endeth the sermonizing.

    • Just use speech recognition. It's not faster than typing or using the mouse, but it's plenty fast enough if you just want to browse the web or send an occasional email.
      • That assumes that thier disorder doesn't affect thier speech too badly for speach recognition to work.

        There are people who's only means of communication is using a blink movement or similar to select words as a computer scans a grid.

        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          by Instine ( 963303 )
          I used to work for a lawyer with severe cp and who had very garbled speech, and little use of his muscles. While it took most people some time to understand him, his SR software (Dragon Dictate) seemed no less accurate than with any other user. But he was just one example... There are those whose voice is not up to it. But this could well be a better interface for the guy I know re cursor movement and other 'pointer device' actions (he currently uses a head stick with great difficulty)
        • GP:

          I'm thinking of some brilliant people whose bodies are hampered by cerebral palsy. Their main -- or sometimes only -- method of communication is through a computer which they may have trouble using because one or both of their hands is not fully functional. One of these units could make a major difference in their lives.

          and again, above :

          There are people who's only means of communication is using a blink movement or similar to select words as a computer scans a grid.

          Yup. I'm definitely with both of you here.

          Specially since specialized peripherals for handicapped persons are extremely expensive, because, well... they are specialized. (a couple of almost custom made peripheral sold to a very small population of users).

          On the contrary OCZ's creation is targeted at a much larger population which enable them to sell it at a much lower price.

          Even if a handicaped's version is going to be a tad more expensive (necessary certification to be sure that the

      • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

        by Splab ( 574204 )
        Microsoft might have a comment on that...

        Dear aunt, let's set so double the killer delete select all [google.com]

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by lawaetf1 ( 613291 )
      True, this sort of tech could be incredibly liberating for someone with a neurological disorder. I expect, however, that we'll sooner see development in the porn and gaming industries. The demand is simply too huge.

      The world of Fahrenheit 451 and/or the Matrix is already here for those who spend their time in front of MMORPGs, SecondLife, and the like. Once we can eliminate the need for our clumsy appendages in interacting with the make-believe we can take another willful nibble of the blue pill. It's

      • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

        by Chris Burke ( 6130 )
        It's surely a bad analogy but I see resemblance between bugs in democracy (politicians avoid dealing with looming problems [budget deficit,etc] to achieve short-term goals [reeelction]) and bugs in the human psyche (if it feels good, do it again.. and again.. and again.. even if long-term consequences are massively negative).

        Well the fundamental problem is that those consequences are in the future, and the future is by its very nature hypothetical, and any future consequences are also thus hypothetical, and

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by kiehlster ( 844523 )
      I agree this has some nice benefits for the disabled, but it makes me wonder why someone like Stephen Hawking hasn't adopted this kind of device already, instead using a lever by his cheek and blink glasses. Yes he's using old software because he doesn't like the voices on newer software, but he could certainly speed his communication by using his bright mind to point to the text he wants to construct and say.

    • Head Mouse (Score:4, Insightful)

      by rednip ( 186217 ) on Monday June 02, 2008 @11:43AM (#23628353) Journal
      Sorry, but this thing doesn't read minds, it measures movement in facial muscles, particularly in the eye brows. Many may find it useful because of a medical problem, cerebral palsy victims likely would, as fine grain muscle control is needed.

      Perhaps it should be call a 'head mouse', or 'face mouse', as 'Brain Mouse' is misleading.

      • Source? The retarded "Overclocker 3d" (rolleyes) site /. chooses to link to for every story about this thing is dead, but Anandtech [anandtech.com] says it reads both brain waves and facial movements. OCZ [ocztechnology.com]'s website says it uses electro-myogram, electro-encephalogram, and electro-oculogram -- electrical patterns from the face, brain, and eyes.
        • Please mod parent up for linking to an article that contains the phrase "Dr. Schutte frags with his mind".

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by doomy ( 7461 )
      Similar devices are already being used to give paralyzed people the ability to walk around and explore virtual worlds. For example recently Japanese scientists from Keio University demoed [virtualworldsnews.com] a product that lets a physically handicapped user interact with a virtual world like Second Life.

      This is part of Keio University and Dentsu's joint venture [keio.ac.jp] into Secondlife, UI, interaction and social study.
  • I know it sounds a little far fetched but I have to wonder if this sort of thing could eventually read out minds. How scary would it be if some one could hack your computer and read your mind?

    It makes me feel like a Neuromancer [wikipedia.org] future isn't all that far off.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Verteiron ( 224042 )
      If someone read my mind they'd deserve every ounce of psychological trauma they received.

      Seriously though, this device has nothing to do with mind-reading. It's not even capable of reading brainwaves like an EEG machine. It's just measuring electrical signals to muscles on your face.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Kugrian ( 886993 )
        "Stop winking at me!"

        "I'm not - I'm trying to send an email!"

        Seriously though, decades of keyboard and mouse usage have given me superhero-like fingers when compared to none computer users. Will extended use of this give me a face like a body builders chest?
      • Freddy has a problem. He's fallen into a black hole called my mind and can no longer escape to terrorize the rest of you dreamers. In fact, Jason has been transformed into such a cute little kitten that can't cross the road to reach the katnip patch.
      • OCZ's website claims it measures EEG (electro encephalograph; brain waves.) That's not to say it "read minds" in any real sense (it doesn't.)

    • Re:I have to wonder (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Lord Ender ( 156273 ) on Monday June 02, 2008 @01:03PM (#23629253) Homepage
      That's a bit like putting a thermometer next to your PC and saying, 'Today we can only tell if it is hot or cold, but someday, we may be able to read every bit on the computer using only the thermometer!'
  • I bought and used a "Brain Mouse" back in '97. The ISP I worked for in College bought one from CES that year. It worked great, but just kind of fell off the map... Hmmm....

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Bandman ( 86149 )
      I played with one of those in a CompUSA. You put your hand on this trackball looking thing, except there was no trackball. There was a nub by your finger, and your micromuscle movements indicated to the computer what you wanted to do. I played that ski free game with it.

  • NOT news! (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    This thing has been done before. [imdb.com] Only problem is, you have to think in Russian. Once you manage that, it's no problem to hit the store.

    • Sorry, but I don't want to have to think in Russian just to control a web browser. I'll stick with my trackball, thanks.

  • Neat, but... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by blindd0t ( 855876 ) on Monday June 02, 2008 @11:28AM (#23628159)

    This looks really neat, really promising, and is very exciting to see. It does make me think of a few questions though...

    • It's not uncommon to use voice-chat while gaming. How is this device affected by those muscle movements and brain activity?
    • I often eat and drink while at the PC (i.e. I was on lunch break while reading the article). How do those muscle movements affect the device?
    • Given the two points above, is there any quick and easy means of temporarily disabling the device or ignoring the input from it? For example, a hot-key would work, or some head-phones have mute buttons built onto them. Of course, I don't expect it to be perfect, but something like that could help deal with its imperfections.
    • What's the price of this thing?!
    • How long from now until Hawking can kick our asses in a FPS? =P
  • This review seems so inconclusive that I'm not even sure if the device really works, or is something faked up by a charlatan.

    A remarkable idea, but if it winds up killing off gamers instead of being their salvation, its life as a product would appear to be nasty, brutish and short.

    It seems almost like the Ouija board of computing.

    D

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Zarf ( 5735 )

      This review seems so inconclusive that I'm not even sure if the device really works, or is something faked up by a charlatan.

      A remarkable idea, but if it winds up killing off gamers instead of being their salvation, its life as a product would appear to be nasty, brutish and short.

      It seems almost like the Ouija board of computing.

      D

      If it runs under $120 I'm going to run out and get one. But, then I have a box of a half-dozen failed "revolutionary" new UI devices. It's sort of a hobby of mine.

      I suspect that it is exceptionally hard to use with out training but just like the twiddler, air-mouse, and the alpha-grip an extremely practiced user can make them work as well as the device its intended to replace.

      The problem is you need to be better than the device you are replacing. I keep buying these toys... I keep hoping. We'll see if this

  • Optimism (Score:4, Informative)

    by foobsr ( 693224 ) on Monday June 02, 2008 @11:32AM (#23628217) Homepage Journal
    From TFA: "Heading down to HQ, I knew the device would have limitations, but the little kid in me was imagining it granting me near-psychic powers. Unfortunately, after several hours of trying and still only being able to control one input, those limitations look to be greater than I thought. That being said though, I have every confidence that had I played with settings and kept the thing on my head for a few hours a day, I would learn to master more of the inputs and utilize them during gameplay. So if you are looking at buying the nia, I urge you to realize that you are buying a heavily scaled-down version of what you have envisaged." (emphasis mine)

    Hmm, given that it lasts a couple of years with continuous martial arts training to establish a process approaching a near optimum with regards to 'naturally given/wired' I/O I still believe that it is appropriate not to be optimistic indeed.

    CC.

    • Re:Optimism (Score:5, Informative)

      by raddan ( 519638 ) on Monday June 02, 2008 @12:18PM (#23628741)
      Actually, I met a software developer for this device at a dinner recently. I, too was skeptical. He said that learning how to use the device takes quite a bit of practice-- because this is like an appendage you never knew you had-- but mainly because controlling things on-screen requires concentration. Basically the problem is this: we deal with distractions all the time; the human brain is really good at doing context switches. But when you wear this interface, those context switches (someone comes up behind you and says "Hi!") change the input to the device. You need to learn to control those state changes-- you can do it, but it takes practice. He assured me that after some practice, this becomes much easier.

      As a side note-- this would be a great tool for learning how to beat polygraph exams! "Escape from Gitmo" for PS3 coming soon! ;^)

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by foobsr ( 693224 )
        controlling things on-screen requires concentration

        Never yet encountered an interface as discussed here in vivo, but I would guess that 'concentration' might not be the proper way, I tend to think that an appropriate distribution of attention would do better. Within that model of thought, your 'context switches' change to a redistribution of attention.

        CC.

      • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

        by dilbert627 ( 561671 )
        In other words.... "Free your mind."
      • I find it funny you emphasized 'really', considering most research shows our brains to be terrible at context switching:

        http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000022.html [joelonsoftware.com]
        http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000691.html [codinghorror.com]

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by raddan ( 519638 )
          But the fact is that we do it naturally. I don't think those articles show that we are bad at it, just that we're slow at it. In computer-time, computers are really slow at it, too, but they do it just fine, and modern operating systems absolutely rely on this behavior to function. BTW, joelonsoftware and codinghorror barely qualify as "research" beyond the fact that they often have very insightful and yet anecdotal evidence.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by shirai ( 42309 )
      I take it that this is a lot like using a muscle you've never consciously used before. For example, when I first started taking dance lessons, I found it VERY hard to do things that seemed like they should be easy. Moving specific parts of your body in isolation is a lot harder than it should be. Especially if they are muscles you aren't used to using in your daily life.

      Similarly, I think if these products ever become popular, there will be a generation of people who will find using them completely natural.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by foobsr ( 693224 )
        this is a lot like using a muscle you've never consciously used before

        Agreed; though, imagine you had the task to 'consciously' control all the muscles involved in an arbitrary day-to-day movement (e.g. something as 'simple' as walking :-)

        CC.

  • Stephen Hawking (Score:5, Interesting)

    by yorkrj ( 658277 ) on Monday June 02, 2008 @11:32AM (#23628223) Journal
    I wonder if this would do any good for Stephen Hawking and others afflicted with ALS?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by n3tcat ( 664243 )
      Considering he's slowly running out of body parts to communicate with (it's his eyes now, right?), I'd say you're on the right thought track.
      • The problem is that ALS is degeneration of the motor nerves, and this senses signals sent to those. True, it senses signals too small to actually move the muscle, but it still relies on the nerves that are degrading.
        • I can confirm that this is a real problem. I worked with a early release of the Eagle Eyes [bc.edu] eye mouse with a family member with ALS. The signals were too weak at times to be usable. It was also very taxing to try to control and centering issues were difficult frustrating to deal with. If you are going to try this path, you should start before they really need it so there is time to train and learn to efficiently control the system.

  • Just read Neuromancer. William Gibson is an author with considerable foresight

    They should have called this device 'trodes'. Now I just need to get my hands on a Hosaka and I'll be set for cyberspace!

  • Is a headache the new RSD?
  • How practical would such a device be for working? It would actually be pretty useful to remove the need to do all the point-clicky stuff and keep my hands localized to the keyboard; granted, does a lot of that already with its interface. I don't know if it would be feasible, because I bet far more neurons would fire when working on a hard problem, thus interfering with the mouse's accuracy. I wouldn't want the mouse to fly everywhere if I were trying to type hello world :).

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Zarf ( 5735 )

      How practical would such a device be for working? It would actually be pretty useful to remove the need to do all the point-clicky stuff and keep my hands localized to the keyboard; granted, does a lot of that already with its interface. I don't know if it would be feasible, because I bet far more neurons would fire when working on a hard problem, thus interfering with the mouse's accuracy. I wouldn't want the mouse to fly everywhere if I were trying to type hello world :).

      I'm sure it doesn't work that way. In fact I'd bet it is something you need to spend about a week learning to do with any proficiency. Inside that first week the mental effort to shift attention to mousing versus the inconvenience of moving your hand to the physical mouse would probably favor the physical mouse ten to one.

      But that's just a wild guess on my part.

  • 1 dof (Score:2)

    by trb ( 8509 )
    Pong paddle control requires movement in only one dimension. A typical mouse coordinates movement in two dimensions (without scroll wheels, buttons, etc). I am not familiar with the OCZ device, but using Pong as a demo seems like a low hurdle for a pointing device or for a device that interprets brain stimuli.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Bandman ( 86149 )
      I agree. Up and down is easy. Add right and left, and it gets just a bit more difficult.

      Maybe in another 10 years, we'll have

      "click here, vi /etc/hosts, etc etc"
  • I would buy one today (even if just pre-ordering) if there was ANY link anywhere on where to freaking buy it... anyone? The slashdotting of 3doverclockedz0mgkfcbbq.com or whatever doesn't help matters either.

  • Link Page Down (Score:4, Informative)

    by writerjosh ( 862522 ) * on Monday June 02, 2008 @12:33PM (#23628911) Homepage
    Try these links instead: http://www.legitreviews.com/article/475/1/ [legitreviews.com] http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38413 [ocztechnologyforum.com]

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by raddan ( 519638 )
      Only problem with that first link. If you're male, there's only one thought on your mind in the presence of that, *ahem*, demonstration person.

      Demo person: "Hrm... this is odd. All you seem to be able to do is make your character stand up."

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by rts008 ( 812749 )
        Yes, took me about 30 seconds to realize she was holding one!
        Most distracting!
        Hmmmm.... I think I need distracted again. *reloads link*

        P.S. For those interested in the OCZ thingy, it's due out at the 'end of this year' and is expected to 'retail for around $300 USD'
        It took effort to RTFA instead of staring slack-jawed at the 'boothbabe', but the info was there.

  • Inside the NIA (Score:4, Informative)

    by slifox ( 605302 ) * on Monday June 02, 2008 @12:56PM (#23629209)
    For those interested in whats inside the OCZ NIA, AnandTech has a product teardown available

    Anyone else have specific info on whats inside, etc? First thought that comes to me is, I want to make one myself!

    Teardown Article:
    http://www.anandtech.com/weblog/showpost.aspx?i=452 [anandtech.com]

    Picture Gallery:
    http://www.anandtech.com/Gallery.aspx?id=123 [anandtech.com]
    • From the pictures in AnandTech's teardown:

      The controller for the whole board, and USB interface:
      * PIC18F.. - microprocessor (w/ USB transceiver)

      The input capture chip for the sensors:
      * PCM1803A - 24-Bit, 96kHz, Stereo, Delta-Sigma Audio ADC

      Misc supporting circuitry:
      * ..-2631 - 8-Pin DIP Dual-Channel High Speed 10 MBit/s Logic Gate Output Optocoupler
      * ADUM1300 - Analog Devices Triple-Channel Digital Isolator
      * Several HC595A shift registers
      * A ripple counter

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by pla ( 258480 )
        All-in-all this doesn't seem particular complicated.

        Offhand, I don't think the hardware shown could even work as an EMG, much less an EEG. I would thus presume they must have some form of differential amplification with a high CMRR in the visor itself.

        And without knowing that, we can really only make wild guesses as to exactly what this really measures.
    • They use a PIC18F2455. A PIC18 with 24KB of flash and 2KB Ram and USB for about $5 [futurlec.com].

      http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=1335&dDocName=en010273 [microchip.com]

      You can use C too, judging from the app notes. Handy for USB stuff.
  • Now that people don't need to keep their hands on the inputs at any time, I can see revolution in internet porn coming our way.

  • I want this with a programmable interface (Score:4, Interesting)

    by infolib ( 618234 ) on Monday June 02, 2008 @01:23PM (#23629475)
    This thing is probably Very Nice (if it wasn't slashdotted) but I'd want to pass the raw output to my own data analysis algorithms. Why should it just be a gaming device? I guess it can double as a sleep rythm detector, or maybe I can tune it to work with me, instead of the other way around.
  • No, I did not read TFA.

    However, I don't think that those devices actually work by reading brain waves. Anyone who has worked with an EEG knows how motionless you have to sit in order to measure brainwaves. When we do experiments the subjects have to avoid muscle and eye movement as much as possible. Every movement of eyes or muscles exceeds any brain wave by magnitudes. There's a reflex that causes your eyes to move upward when closing them. So you also have to blink as few times as you can, which makes
  • Finally people can have furry anal sex on secondlife with their uberleet mind powers!
  • Does it fit over or under the tinfoil hat?
  • You know, at first I thought, "what, all they can do is play Pong?"  But then I thought, "Hey, holy crap, they're playing Pong with their Minds!" and realized that that is pretty freaking cool if you can do that with a consumer device today.

  • Can you imagine the possibilities if it really could read your mind?

    - Think yes to accept the EULA (and donate your firstborn to us...)

    - I know you didn't read it. Go back and read the licence properly...

    Next, the brain powered keyboard!

  • I really read "mouse brain hits the store". Would be more interesting....

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