Supercomputer Built With 8 GPUs

FnH writes "Researchers at the University of Antwerp in Belgium have created a new supercomputer with standard gaming hardware. The system uses four NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GX2 graphics cards, costs less than €4,000 to build, and delivers roughly the same performance as a supercomputer cluster consisting of hundreds of PCs. This new system is used by the ASTRA research group, part of the Vision Lab of the University of Antwerp, to develop new computational methods for tomography. The guys explain the eight NVIDIA GPUs deliver the same performance for their work as more than 300 Intel Core 2 Duo 2.4GHz processors. On a normal desktop PC their tomography tasks would take several weeks but on this NVIDIA-based supercomputer it only takes a couple of hours. The NVIDIA graphics cards do the job very efficiently and consume a lot less power than a supercomputer cluster."

I guess...

[LordVader717]

They didn't have enough dough for 9.

Re:

[lukas84]

Look at the IBM x3850 M2.

Re-birth of Amiga?

[Yvan256]

Am I the only one seeing those alternative uses of GPUs as some kind of re-birth of the Amiga design?

Re:Re-birth of Amiga?

[Quarters]

The Amiga design was, essentially, dedicated chips for dedicated tasks. The CPU was a Motorola 68XXX chip. Agnus handled RAM access requests from the CPU and the other custom chips. Denise handled video operations. Paula handled audio. This cpu + coprocessor setup is roughly analogous to a modern X86 PC with a CPU, northbridge chip, GPU, and dedicated audio chip. At the time the Amiga's design was revolutionary because PCs and Macs were using a single CPU to handle all operations. Both Macs and PCs have come a long way since then. 'Modern' PCs have had the "Amiga design" since about the time the AGP bus became prevalent.

nVidia's CUDA framework for performing general purpose operations on a GPU is something totally different. I don't think the Amiga custom chips could be repurposed in such a fashion.

Re:Re-birth of Amiga?

[porpnorber]

I think the parent was seeing the same situation a little differently. You ever code up Conway's Life for the blitter? Whoosh! Now CUDA does floating point where the Amiga could only do binary operations, and the GPU has a lot more control onboard, but the analogy is not unsound. After all, CPUs themselves didn't even do floating point in the old days (though of course they did do narrow integer arithmetic).

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

Modern' PCs have had the "Amiga design" since about the time the AGP bus became prevalent.

Not really. The Amiga also had perfect synchronization between the different components. When you configured soundchip and graphics chip for a particular sample rate and screen resolution, you would know exactly how many samples would be played for the duration of one frame. And you had synchronization to the point where you could know which of the samples were played while a particular line was being sent through the

Re:

[J.R. Random]

It's more like the re-birth of the ILLIAC III [wikipedia.org].

A funny twist on 3DFx' marketing campaing

[DrYak]

What this makes me thinking about it the marketing campaign [falconfly.de] that 3DFx used back when they launched their Voodoo 5 series ("So powerful it's kind of ridiculous").

Most of the TV spot started explaing how scientist could save humanity with GFLOPS-grade chips. But then humorously, the TV sport announces that they decided to play game (often with hilarious effect on the various "dreams of a better humanity" that the first half of the spot showed).

In a funny twist of things, it's the exact opposite that happened

Why haven't they started releasing GPU CPUs yet?

[arrenlex]

This article makes it seem like it is possible to use the GPUs as general purpose CPUs. Is that the case? If so, why doesn't NVIDIA or especially AMD\ATI start putting its GPUs on motherboards? At a ratio of 8:300, a single high-end GPU seems to be able to do the work of dozens of high-end CPUs. They'd utterly wipe out the competition. Why haven't they put something like this out yet?

Re:Why haven't they started releasing GPU CPUs yet

[kcbanner]

They are useful for applications that can be massively parallelized. Your average program can't break off into 128 threads, that takes a little bit of extra skill on the coder's part. If, for example, someone could port gcc to run on the GPU, think of how happy those Gentoo folks would be :) (make -j128)!

Get the performance where it's most needed

[mangu]

They are useful for applications that can be massively parallelized

Precisely. But that happens to be one of the areas where more performance is still needed.

You don't need a super-duper CPU for text editing, that's for sure. For most of the tasks people do on computers, we have had CPU enough for the last 15 years or more. But where we still need more CPU happens to be mostly in tasks that ARE massively parallel, for instance, physics simulations, of which you will find several examples in the nVidia site [nvidia.com].

I'm following this technology with much interest, and I think I will have a major upgrade in my home computer soon. My old FX-5200 card has been more than enough for my gaming needs, but now I have a new reason for upgrading.

Re:Get the performance where it's most needed

[kipman725]

You don't need a super-duper CPU for text editing

clearly you have never used EMACS ;)

Re:Get the performance where it's most needed

[Dolda2000]

"clearly you have never used Eclipse ;)"

There, I corrected that for you.

Re:

[eugene_roux]

"clearly you have never used Eclipse ;)"

There, I corrected that for you.

Clearly YOU have never used EMACS!

Re:Get the performance where it's most needed

[Hadlock]

For most of the tasks people do on computers, we have had CPU enough for the last 15 years or more.
 
We're using core2 duos at my work to run Office 97 and a foxpro database app that's been warmed over once since 1996. I use the remaining 99% of CPU power for F@H and World Community Grid clients.

Re:

[jacquesm]

to expand on that a bit if you're looking to get your hands dirty with cuda & linux you can start doing so here: http://www.nvidia.com/object/cuda_get.html#linux [nvidia.com]

Re:

[Dachannien]

Your average program can't break off into 128 threads, that takes a little bit of extra skill on the coder's part.

Or, in some cases, a significant lack of skill, although in those cases, it usually doesn't stop at 128.

Re:

[MynockGuano]

No; if you read all the way to the end, you can see where they discuss the limited specific "general" programs that currently support this kind of thing. Namely, folding@home (on ATI cards) and maybe Photoshop in the future. The tomography software they use is likely their own code, is graphics-heavy, and is tailored for this set-up.

Re:Why haven't they started releasing GPU CPUs yet

[77Punker]

It is possible to solve non-graphics problems on graphics cards nowadays, but the hardware is still very specialized. You don't want the GPU to run your OS or your web browser or any of that; when a SIMD (single instruction, multiple data) problem arises, a decent computer scientist should recognize it and use the tools he has available.
Also, this stuff isn't as mature as normal C programming, so issues that don't always exist in software that's distributed to the general public will crop up because not everyone's video card will support everything that's going on in the program.

Re:

[gweihir]

This article makes it seem like it is possible to use the GPUs as general purpose CPUs. Is that the case? If so, why doesn't NVIDIA or especially AMD\ATI start putting its GPUs on motherboards? At a ratio of 8:300, a single high-end GPU seems to be able to do the work of dozens of high-end CPUs. They'd utterly wipe out the competition. Why haven't they put something like this out yet?

Simple: This is not a supercomputer at all, just special-purpose hardware running a very special problem. For general computa

Re:Why haven't they started releasing GPU CPUs yet

[ChrisMaple]

GPUs are massively parallel and very poor at processing branches. This doesn't make for good speed with most programs. For a company to put out a product that they claimed is much faster than the competition, they would have to be very selective with their examples and create new benchmarks that took advantage of their product. They might even have to create new programs to take advantage of the power, like a modified gimp.

In all likelihood, if they tried too hard to advertise their speed advantage, they w

Re:Why haven't they started releasing GPU CPUs yet

[Dogtanian]

This article makes it seem like it is possible to use the GPUs as general purpose CPUs. Is that the case?

As well as the issues that others have mentioned, there's also the problem of accuracy with GPUs.

AFAIK, in many (all?) ordinary consumer graphics cards, minor mistakes by the GPU are tolerated because they'll typically result in (at worst) minor or unnoticable glitches in the display. I assume that this is because, to get the best performance, designers push the hardware beyond levels that would be acceptable otherwise.

Clearly if you're using them for other mathematical operations, or to partly replace

Intel is planning it

[DrYak]

An ATI or nVidia GPU as main processor is completely out of question. These things aren't even able to *call* a function (everything is inlined at compile time), not to mention that everything is ran by a SIMD engine behind the scene which mean that all the processing unit must all actually run the same code at the same time.

Intel on the other hand are touting their future Larrabee as being completely compatible with the x86 instruction set. The whole thing, according to them, should behave like a big many

Re:Why haven't they started releasing GPU CPUs yet

[mikael]

The major different between CPU's and GPU's is that CPU's have to handle the effects of different branch conditions. One of the optimizations that CPU's have been designed for, is the combination of pipelining and dual path evaluation. Because the CPU is pipelining instructions, it has to evaluate both outcomes of each conditional instruction in parallel with the actual condition, and then select the actual outcome once it is actually known. Calculating the condition first followed by the outcome, would red

Re:The idea is to use the CPU as the CPU

[dreamchaser]

Because for 95%+ of the problems a general purpose computer tackles GPU's would suck. It's only in very special cases that GPU's outperform CPU's. Thus, your idea is a poor one.

This is awesome!

[sticks_us]

Ok, probably a paid NVIDIA ad placement, but check TFA anyway (and even if you don't read, you gotta love the case). It looks like heat generation is one of the biggest problems--sweet.

I like this too:

The medical researchers ran some benchmarks and found that in some cases their 4000EUR desktop superPC outperforms CalcUA, a 256-node supercomputer with dual AMD Opteron 250 2.4GHz chips that cost the University of Antwerp 3.5 million euro in March 2005...

...and at 4000EUR, that comes to what (rolls dice, consults sundial) about $20000 American?

Re:

[livingboy]

Insted of dices you could use KCALC 1 EUR is about 1.55 USD so instead of 20000 it did cost only about 6200 USD.

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

WHOOOOOSH - over your head it went.

Re:

[krilli]

http://www.google.com/search?q=4000+eur+in+usd [google.com]

$6.218.

Re:

[TubeSteak]

The FASTRA uses aircooling and with the sidepanel removed the GPUs run at 55 degrees Celsius in idle, 86 degrees Celsius under full load and 100 degrees Celsius under full load with the shaders 20% overclocked. They have to run the system with the left side panel removed as the graphics cards would otherwise overheat but they're looking for a solution for their heat problem.

Looking for a solution?
Geeks everyone have used the old "box fan aimed at the case" solution since time immemorial.

If you wanna get real fancy, you can pull/push air through a water cooled radiator.
Example: http://www.gmilburn.ca/ac/geoff_ac.html [gmilburn.ca]

Re:

[pablomme]

and at 4000EUR, that comes to what (rolls dice, consults sundial) about $20000 American?

That made me try to extrapolate the 2002-2008 trend of the exchange rate to see when that would become true (provided the trend continues). I get 2014 and 2045 with linear extrapolations, which are gross approximations, and 2023 with an exponential extrapolation. Does anyone know how exchange rates should be expected to behave with respect to time?

Re:

[maxume]

Unpredictably.

(the big shift over the last 6 years is mostly due to wanton printing of money in the US and rather tight central banking in Europe [with a healthy dose of Chinese currency rate fixing thrown in]. The trend isn't all that likely to continue, as a weakening dollar is great for American businesses operating in Europe and horrible for European businesses operating in America, which creates [increasing amounts of] counter-pressure to the relatively loose government policy in the US, or saying it t

Re:

[osu-neko]

Designed in America, manufactured in Asia, purchased in Europe.

20th century thinking. Welcome to globalization. The product was designed, manufactured, and purchased on Earth.

Re:

[raynet]

With or without tax? The euro price does include about 20% of value added tax.

Tomography

[ProfessionalCookie]

noun a technique for displaying a representation of a cross section through a human body or other solid object using X-rays or ultrasound.

In other news Graphics cards are good at . . . graphics.

Re:Tomography

[jergh]

What they are is doing is reconstruction, basically analyzing the raw data data from a tomographic scanner and generating a representation which can then be visualized. So its more doing numerical methods than graphics.

And BTW even rendering the reconstructed results is not that simple, as current graphics card are optimized for geometry, not volumetric data.

Re:

[jergh]

Sounds like a simple 3D to 2D projection issue, no?

Not really simple. The input data is "raw" in a sense that it contains lots of artifacts from the acquisition which have to be removed during reconstruction.

Re:

[imrehg]

In other news Graphics cards are good at . . . graphics.

It's not the graphics part that makes it so computer-intensive.... All the mathematics behind it, once that's done, the presentation could be done on any ol' computer....

So, if you mean by "graphics" that they are good at difficult geometrical calculations (like in games, for example), than you are right.... because that's what it is, truck-load of geometry...

From Wikipedia:
Tomography: "[...] Digital geometry processing is used to generate a three-dimensional image of the inside of an object from a l

Re:

[ProfessionalCookie]

if you mean by "graphics" that they are good at difficult geometrical calculations (like in games, for example)

I can't imagine any other definition of 3d graphics.

Cheers ;)

coincidence

[DaveGod]

I can't imagine that it is a coincidence that this comes along just as Nvidia are crowing about CUDA, or that the resulting machine looks like a gamer's dream rig.

While there is ample crossover between hardware enthusiasts and academia, anyone soley with the computation interest in mind probabyl wouldn't be selecting neon fans, aftermarket coolers or spend that much time on presentable wiring.

In other news...

[bobdotorg]

... 3D Realms announced this as the minimum platform requirements to run Duke Nuke'em Forever.

Finally...

[ferrellcat]

Something that can play Crysis!

Re:Finally...

[Yvan256]

If you call 8 FPS "playing".

Re:

[cpricejones]

And that's on 640x480

This is not a supercomputer

[poeidon1]

this is an example of acceleration architecture. Anyone who have used FPGAs knows that. Ofcourse, making sensational news is a too common thing on /.

Killer Slant

[FurtiveGlancer]

The guys explain the eight NVIDIA GPUs deliver the same performance for their work as more than 300 Intel Core 2 Duo 2.4GHz processors.

Pardon the italics, but I was impacted by the killer slant of this posting.

For specific kinds of calculations, sure, GPGPU supercomputing is superior. I would question what software optimization they had applied to the 300 CPU system. Apparently, none. Let's not sensationalize quite so much, shall we?

Not a Supercomputer -- Special purpose hardware

[gweihir]

It is also not difficuult to find other tasks where, e.g., FPGAs peform vastly better than general-purpose CPUs. That does not make an FPGA a "Supercomputer". Stop the BS, please.

Re:

[emilper]

aren't most of the supercomputers designed to perform some very specific tasks ? You don't buy a supercomputer to run the Super edition of Excel.

Brick of GPUs

[Rufus211]

I love this picture: http://fastra.ua.ac.be/en/images.html [ua.ac.be]

Between the massive brick of GPUs and the massive CPU heatsink/fan, you can't see the mobo at all.

Re:

[Fumus]

They spent 4000 EUR for the computer, but use two boxes in order to situate the monitor higher. I guess they spent everything they had on the computer.

Monitor Height & Ergonomics

[cciRRus]

On a more serious note, they shouldn't have elevated their monitor. Generally, the top of computer monitors should be at the eye-level of the user. From the picture, it doesn't seem so. This would cause more strain on the user's neck as he/she needs to look up more than looking down.

The way our neck bones are structured, makes looking up more strenuous than looking down. Hence, it is more comfortable to look downwards than upwards.

Wave of the Future? Yes

[bockelboy]

Wave of the Future? Yes*. Revolution in computing? Not quite.

The GPGPU scheme is, after all, a re-invention of the vector processing of old. Vector processors died out, however, because there were too few users to support. Now that there's a commercially viable reason to make these processors (PS3 and video games), they are interesting again.

The researchers took a specialized piece of hardware, rewrote their code for it, and found it was faster than their original code on generic hardware. The problems here are that you have to rewrite your code (High Energy Physics codebases are about a GB, compiled... other sciences are similar) and you have to have a problem which will run well on this scheme. Have a discrete problem? Too bad. Have a gigantic, tightly coupled problem which requires lots of inter-GPU communication? Too bad.

Have a tomography problem which requires only 1GB of RAM? Here you go...

The standard supercomputer isn't going away for a long, long time. Now, as before, a one-size-fits-all approach is silly. You'll start to see sites complement their clusters and large-SMP machines with GPU power as scientists start to understand and take advantage of them. Just remember, there are 10-20 years of legacy code which will need to be ported... it's going to be a slow process.

Re:Wave of the Future? Yes

[77Punker]

Fortunately, Nvidia provides a CUDA version of the basic linear algebra subprograms, so even if your software is hard to port, you can speed it up considerably if it does some big matrix operations, which can easily take a long time on a CPU.

Re:

[Josef Meixner]

The GPGPU scheme is, after all, a re-invention of the vector processing of old. Vector processors died out, however, because there were too few users to support. Now that there's a commercially viable reason to make these processors (PS3 and video games), they are interesting again.

Since when have "vector processors died out"? The "Earth Simulator" for example used the NEC SX-6 CPU, currently the SX-9 is sold. Vector processors never died out and were in use for what they are best at. The GPU and the Cell

Vector Computing

[alewar]

They are comparing their system against normal computers, I'd be interesting to see a benchmark against a vector computer, like, eg. NEC SX9

Re:

[Yvan256]

Yeah but how much does a NEC SX9 cost?

Re:

[Jeremy Erwin]

You can lease one for 2.98 Million yen, per month.

The price !

[this great guy]

The system uses four NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GX2 graphics cards, costs less than 4,000 EUR to build

What's more crazy: calling something this inexpensive a supercomputer, or 4 video cards costing a freaking 4,000 EUR.

I wonder how that compares to the D870

[Lazy Jones]

Nvidia offers an external GPU solution specifically for "deskside supercomputing", the Tesla D870 [nvidia.com]. It has only 2 cores with 1.35GHz each, apart from it being a bit more expensive, I wonder how it compares (you can connect several to a PC).

Sooo... using GPU for graphics?

[flyingfsck]

They are using graphical processors to process graphics. Truly revolutionary. Who woulda thunkit?

Re:

[Warbothong]

Makes me slightly annoyed whilst I sit here watching my windows stutter around the screen when I switch desktops since all of my graphics are being processed by my CPU.

Thanks a lot ATI :(

(PS: This is in Enlightenment not Compiz)

Have they profiled it?

[Chris Snook]

I'm extremely curious to know where the performance bottleneck is in this system. Is it memory bandwidth? PCIe bandwidth? Raw GPU power? Depending on which it is, it may or may not be very easy to improve upon the price/performance ratio of this setup. Given that the work parallelizes very easily, if you could build two machines that are each 2/3 as powerful and each cost 1/2 as much, that's a huge win for other people trying to build similar systems.

Has been done before with PS3s

[nkeat]

The guys in Antwerp have probably got themselves the greater number crunching power, but reconstruction of tomographic images has been done using similar multi-core hardware. See the following (pdf alert) from the University of Erlangen, which uses a cluster of PS3s for a great use of commodity consumer hardware http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.imp.uni-erlangen.de%2FIEEE%2520MIC2007%2FKnaup_Poster_M19-291.pdf&ei=t_FBSKnZKoie1gbh2Y23Bg&usg=AFQjCNG7vNGmMM2h [google.co.uk]

Re:By what benchmark?

[Anonymous Coward]

By what benchmark is eight of the NVIDIA GPUs in the 9800 GX2 more powerful than 300 2.4 GHz C2Ds?

Looking at TFS the benchmark of their own tomography code taking a couple of hours instead of weeks.

Re:By what benchmark?

[cheier]

Too bad this isn't really news. I guess it is news if you consider that someone else has had their application accelerated by NVIDIA GPUs. I guess the only other reason that this could be news is by virtue of having 8 GPU cores.

Unfortunately, this setup won't work ideally for a lot of other CUDA based applications. For the past 6 months, I had a system with 6 GPUs (actual physical GPUs). This is the system that I showed at CES [ocia.net]. We are easily able to do 8 physical GPUs, and now I've been solely focused on utilizing Tesla.

Given that NVIDIA released the GX2 series, I was not surprised that someone would announce an 8GPU system. I'm surprised it took this long for someone to do it, and almost equally surprised that slashdot took this long to publish any news that is decent in the realm of GPU super computing. I've been cranking out close to 228 billion atom evals. per second in VMD [uiuc.edu] for months now, versus about 4 billion on dual quad core 3.0GHz Xeons.

Re:

[schwaang]

Interesting. Did you find it necessary like the Antwerp people to have a multi-core CPU to keep CPU-to-GPU communication bubbling along smoothly?

I'm looking to CUDA-ize some algorithms (for computation as opposed to real-time graphics). Are there any books or sites that you found really helpful? (I have GPU Gems 3 on order.)

Re:

[cheier]

I haven't done much of the development of the software myself. We have a developer we hired to work with CUDA. From what I've found, the documentation that is available on NVIDIAs site for CUDA is excellent and their developers are active on their forums.

For VMD, it was necessary to have 1 CPU core per GPU. We tested 6 GPUs with 4 cores and we could only spawn 4 threads for GPU processing. The guys at Evolved Machines told me they can use multi GPU off of a single core. If so, I have no idea how. N

Re:

[schwaang]

They do single precision floating point, so yes there are limitations. But if you google for CUDA examples, there are plenty of useful computational applications like modelling physics for purposes other than graphical display.

Re:By what benchmark?

[cromar]

I am guessing it has something to do with floating point calculations vs. integer calculations, but if I read the article, this wouldn't be Slashdot, would it? Think about it. We have GPUs to perform vector maths, flops, etc. because the CPU is not all that great at that sort of thing typically. A general purpose CPU is not necessarily going to be the fastest if your problem domain is more suited to an "inferior" chip; general purpose CPUs are not designed to be the fastest chip in every situation.

Re:By what benchmark?

[77Punker]

The GPU's are better at floating point than integer; if I remember correctly it takes 4 cycles on current GPU's to do a float operation, but it takes 16 to do an int. No, I don't understand why.

Also, the "multiply" and "add" instructions exist in a "madd" opcode which essentially doubles the theoretical floating point performance, even if you don't use "madd" very often.

Re:By what benchmark?

[Calinous]

Because floating point operation goes on a dedicated path, while the integer operations does not have a dedicated integer-only path.
Also, it's possible that loading floating points operands and storing results in actual code can be pipelined, while integer operations are not pipelined.
  (and yes, I don't know what I'm talking about)

Re:

[frosty_tsm]

You might be a little off, but I'd say you're pretty close, and I just had a couple of architecture and super computer systems classes.

Re:By what benchmark?

[AlecC]

It takes 4 cycles to do a floating point operation, and 4 cycles to do an integer add/subtract. It takes 16 cycles to do an integer multiply because it only has a 24-bit hardware multiplier (needed to achieve the 4-cycle flops, so it has to do long multiplies as four madds, This was for the first generation CUDA CPUs; the second generation, which should be out by now, was going to have double length floating and would be able to do 32 bit multiplies in the same four cycles.

While they can do integer, these machines are not very happy with it, and I found it much easier to do everything in floating point, even if you are talking about 8-bit colour data. It goes no slower, and everything is much better adapted to floating point. Then there are special instructions to get back to integer at the output.

While each operation takes 4 cycles, they are fully pipelined, so that it launched a new instruction per cycle, times 32 pipes per unit, times 8 units per GPU.

And madd is very useful for the sort of tasks for which supercomputers are traditionally used.

Re:

[mikael]

Because a floating point number really consists of two value (a large 23-bit mantissa, a smaller (8-bit exponent and a single sign bit), performing a single arithmetic operation on two floating point numbers requires:

1. Aligning the two mantissas so the exponents match
2. Performing the operation
3. Renormalizing the mantissa of new value so that it is in the range 1.0 to less than 2.0
4. Saving the result to the destination register

Each of these stages would probably take one read/write cycle.

Performing an in

Re:

[gumbi west]

When you get into inverting matricies, or doing matrix vector multiplication the algo is very easily in parallel, but I always wonder where the full matrices live. i.e. they could easily be tens of GBs of matrix, so the CPU would seem to have to be heavily involved as well.

Re:By what benchmark?

[pablomme]

As far as I know, GPUs are amazingly fast at matrix operations and other things allowing vectorized evaluation. I guess these tomography applications must make massive use of these. After all, tomography is in essence image processing..

Why general purpose?

[nurb432]

Wouldn't be the first time a supercomputer was developed with a specific task in mind.

Re:Limited Application

[Calinous]

Even more: if you don't optimize the code specifically for the GPU-based supercomputer, your performance goes down the drain. I wouldn't be surprised if they obtained a speedup of an order of magnitude or more from the aggressive code optimisation.
      The idea is: the original code would run faster on a 8 Core2Duo machine than on the 8 GPUs. Even more optimising of the code will do little for the Core2Duos, due to limited memory bandwidth, FSB bandwidth, and so on.
      Meanwhile, optimising a pipelining sistem (load, compute, store) in the GPU would be greatly improved by huge bandwidth (50GB/s on current systems), huge number of computation units (128 or more) and so on.

Re:Limited Application

[tdelaney]

Sure - but at 4000 euros, you can afford to do a one-off purchase and write custom software for a limited application. The point of this is that if your application suits it, this is a very cheap way to get supercomputer performance without paying for your own supercomputer (cluster) or time on an existing one.

We Need a Universal Multicore Processor

[MOBE2001]

The point of this is that if your application suits it, this is a very cheap way to get supercomputer performance without paying for your own supercomputer (cluster) or time on an existing one.

No doubt about it. In spite of my admittedly negative criticism, I applaud these guys because I think this shows the amazing potential of multicore parallel computing to bringing supercomputing power to the desktop and even to the laptop and the cellphone. However, this potential will not arrive unless we can find a w

Re:By what benchmark?

[symbolset]

By what benchmark is eight of the NVIDIA GPUs in the 9800 GX2 more powerful than 300 2.4 GHz C2Ds?

By the benchmark that they solve the particular problem of this specific application in 1/300th of the time?

Re:By what benchmark?

[Jaime2]

I think the GP (and myself) were objecting to the use of the fairly general word "power" and the use of this one problem as a "power benchmark". While it is obviously true that 8GPUs is as fast as 300 C2Ds for this problem, this system isn't as fast as a supercomputer for most problems. All this does is point out that the recent trend of building supercomputers out of inexpensive general purpose CPUs may not be a good idea for all applications.

Re:

[foobsr]

building supercomputers out of inexpensive general purpose CPUs may not be a good idea for all applications

You may generalize that, like, e.g., in - 'for running VISTA', but (ymmv) of course you can come up with a more serious example.

CC.

Re:By what benchmark?

[symbolset]

All this does is point out that the recent trend of building supercomputers out of inexpensive general purpose CPUs may not be a good idea for all applications.

And... a screwdriver is not always a prybar. A tool's a tool - they have preferred usage but if your requirement is specific and you're creative enough, you can do some fine work outside of the tool's intended purpose. Like this guy. Kudos to him.

Perhaps some more creative people finding this information will now discover if their specific requirements can be met by this interesting configuration. That will save them large quantities of cash or possibly enable some facility that was not previously available because supercomputers cost a grip-o-cash.

Of course for general purpose supercomputing you would want to use modified PS3s [wired.com].

Define: which is better?

[mcrbids]

Which is faster? A Lamborghini or a 5-ton flatbed truck?

Depends on what you're after! If you are trying to get yourself from point A to point B, the Lamborghini is the obvious choice. But if you need to move 4.5 tons of stuff from point A to point B, the Lamborghini would suck ass when compared to the flatbed truck.

It's just a question of what you are trying to accomplish. There is no absolute framework for "power" to solve problems, even if you define it fairly narrowly. For example, let's talk about 'pattern matching': A free database (like PostgreSQL) on cheap hardware can search through millions of records to deliver a query result in a tenth of a second. In that respect, Postgres is WAY faster than, say, the human brain. But the human brain will KICK ASS over just about any other technology out there in deciding whether or not a particular image contains a cat.

Use the right tool for the job, and you'll be amazed at the results. That 8 GPUs handily outperform 512 CPU cores at a specific task is not surprising - the GPUs are designed from the beginning to solve the kind of problem that's needed!

Personally, I'm surprised as to why there hasn't been more development behind the FPGA: are they just expensive?

Re:

[Jaime2]

So you agree with me. I never suggested that there was an absolute framework for "power". The summary is written in such a way that a casual reader who takes it at face value may come away believing that NVIDIA has invented some killer technology that is going to wipe Intel off the map. The truth is that the article linked from the summary refers to a group of people who found that NVIDIA GPUs happened to match their processing needs much better than the current crop of typical desktop/server processors.

Re:

[irc.goatse.cx troll]

But the human brain will KICK ASS over just about any other technology out there in deciding whether or not a particular image contains a cat.

I disagree -- I have a about a 4 in 10 success rate on rapidshares new "type the letters that have a cat behind them" captcha. Surely someone could write an app to do better.

Re:

[Enderandrew]

Please, please, please do the math.

8 GPUs are being compared to 300 CPUs. So the single GPU for this pupose isn't 300 times as powerful as the CPU.

It is doing the operation in 1/37th the time approximately. This isn't news or unbelievable. GPUs are dedicated to performing certainly types of tasks far better than a CPU.

Re:By what benchmark?

[77Punker]

By what benchmark is eight of the NVIDIA GPUs in the 9800 GX2 more powerful than 300 2.4 GHz C2Ds?

By any SIMD problem. For reference, fire up a game that's capable of using a software renderer and do some sort of benchmark, then use the 3D hardware on the same benchmark. That's the difference between SIMD on hardware that is designed to do SIMD and SIMD on hardware that's designed to do everything (or in the case of the Duo, multitasking).

Re:

[raftpeople]

Just to expand on this stuff: Different tools are (obviously) designed for different workloads. I have a project I was contemplating porting to the Cell. Unfortunately only 40% of my performance bottleneck could take advantage of SIMD, but that 40% could have taken advantage of an enormous number of SIMD instructions just like the workload from TFA.

The other critical 40% of my project would have gained absolutely nothing from SIMD and on the Cell would have lost time due to branches. In this case 300

Re:By what benchmark?

[Xyrus]

You're being overly simplistic.

In order to utilize this "super computer", your problem has to be refactored in such a way that it can utilize the hardware efficiently. This can be either be fairly easy or incredibly difficult depending on the problem, tool-set available, etc. .

Their benchmark is good for them, but it is most likely meaningless to the general super-computing community. Porting something like LINPACK over and running that as a benchmark however would give a whole lot more insight into what kind of performance boost a typical scientific app might gain from said hardware.

Nice to see someone utilizing this functionality though.

~X~

Re:By what benchmark?

[hansraj]

As far as my understanding goes, comparing a GPU's performance to a CPU's performance is very very task dependent and the comparison with 300 CPUs should not be taken to mean that a 8GPU system is more powerful than a 300 core duo system in general.

If the application requires solving a small task many times over and over and all of these tasks can be done in parallel then using a GPU works great because a GPU has many cores each of which can handle a simple routine. Also the GPU is designed to spend very little time on the way code is hadled (load, switch etc) and spend more time actually running the code (hence the requirement of only very simple functions).

Such problems frequently arise in tomography, physics, astronomy etc and I hear GPUs are a great success in these areas. But don't hold your breath for running your favorite distro blazingly fast using GPUs.

Re:By what benchmark?

[TheThiefMaster]

The 9800 GX2's GPUs have 128 1.5GHz "shader processors". 8 of these is like having 1024 vector-processing-specialised processor cores at your command.

I could easily believe that it performed comparably to 300 2.4GHz Core 2 Duos (aka 600 "over 1.5x faster but not vector-specialised" cores).

Theoretical performance is 576 GFLOPS per 9800 GX2 GPU (4.608 TFLOPS total) vs 19.2 GFLOPS per Core 2 CPU (5.760 TFLOPS total). However in tests the Core 2 gets as low as 6 GFLOPS instead of it's 19 theoretical, and the 9800 GPU gets a lot closer to it's full power.

Re:

[mikael]

They are doing tomography on large volume data sets. You take a large number of high-resolution slices of an object (1024x1024 x 16 bits) from a large number of different angles which encompass an entire circle (256 to 512 slices).

Since they are using eight GPU's, the total memory of the system must be in the range of 8 Gigabytes. They would need half the memory for the raw image data, and the other half for the final cube volume (1024^3 x 16 bits).

From the video, a calculation which would normally take an

Re:

[Brian Gordon]

It's not really that surprising. CPUs are supposed to control the computer's resources and keep some kind of sanity and synchronization.. do one thing at a time and they do it fast. Multiple cores are nice but they just let you do 2 things at once. Yeah they're fancy and pipelined and there's all sort of asynchronous optimization with arithmetic and logic, but as a whole it's executing one instruction after another.

GPUs on the other hand are far more parallel. The thousands of individual subprocessors ca

Re:

[kipman725]

or 100's of FPGA's can do what was previously considered a task that even with super computing resources was considered so time consuming to be only worthwhile for groups like the nsa: http://www.copacobana.org/index.html [copacobana.org] (the EFF had a simlar custom chip device several years before but that cost >$250K)

Re:

[77Punker]

I guess this is probably a joke, but the sections of code that run on the GPU should work on any platform supported by CUDA (which is probably what they're using, didn't read TFA) with little or no modification. Unless they're modifying structures created by D3D, that is....

Re:

[gardyloo]

On par with anyone else's system?

Re:

[sycomonkey]

The article is correct, however, most software is not nearly so parralel/multithreaded that it can be run effecientyly on a GPU. For general computer purposes, it is better to have a few, fast cores (AMD/Intel) than to have many, slower cores (ATI/nVidia). However, certain scientific computing applications are heavily parralelizable and so run very fast on GPU's. Basically, it depends on your definition of "powerful".

Re:

[Arimus]

The graphs are time taken in seconds to perform a task - so shorter graph == better.