Prosthetic-Limbed Runner Disqualified from Olympic Games 509
contraba55 wrote with a link to an Engadget story on a sign of the postmodern times. Oscar Pistorius, a world-class sprinter, has been denied a shot at participating in the Olympics this year. He's a double-amputee, but he's not out because of his handicap; he's disqualified because he's faster than most sprinters. "The runner — who uses carbon-fiber, prosthetic feet — was reviewed by the International Association of Athletics Federations (or IAAF), a review which found the combination of man and machine to be too much for its purely human competitors. According to the IAAF report, the 'mechanical advantage of the blade in relation to the healthy ankle joint of an able bodied athlete is higher than 30-percent.' Additionally, Pistorius uses 25-percent less energy than average runners due to the artificial limbs, therefore giving him an unfair advantage on the track."
man... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:man... (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:man... (Score:5, Funny)
And disabled people will be beating up young males in the street.
I, for one... no. I'm not that cheap.
Re:man... (Score:5, Informative)
The thing is, the human ankle is also useful for climbing a tree, kicking a football, balancing on one foot and tons of other things where these prostethics would be quite unpractical.
If he was allowed to attach another, more fish-tail-like prostethic, I bet he woulda won the olympics in swimming too...
Why are springs not more common? (Score:3, Interesting)
The legs aren't generally superior though, just superior for this single purpose (sprinting on a solid high-traction surface). It's no surprise at all, he's basically running on springs -- said as much in the report: 91% of the energy that goes into compressing the things on step-down return on step-up, which is vastly better than the 50% or so that a human ankle can do.
This makes perfect sense, and to a degree I can understand the decision to disallow him to compete.
But on the other hand, it's brought to light an old thought of mine, because I've seen those springy "shoes" before: if they are so much more effective, then why don't we see more springs in regular running shoes?
I mean sure, for competitions there might be strict rules (as for racing bicycles, for instance), but for amateur or non-competition use there should be a huge benefit to incorporating springs. Maybe
Because our knee parts are non-replaceable (Score:4, Informative)
That is the problem: if you put springs on your shoes, you will run faster, but you will bust your knees faster too. This guy apparently has mechanical knees -- which can be easily user-serviced in case of wear and tear. I would like to see someone trying to do a meniscectomy to itself.
Re:man... (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:man... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:man... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:man... (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:man... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:man... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:man... (Score:5, Funny)
Nah - he's taking it in stride.
I never thought I'd see the day ... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:I never thought I'd see the day ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I never thought I'd see the day ... (Score:5, Interesting)
I can see why he'd be disqualified, although it must be sad for him. Surely he must have realised the chances were slim though, those things are far too good.
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http://www.vietvet.org/glossary.htm [vietvet.org]
Re:I never thought I'd see the day ... (Score:5, Insightful)
People are not allowed to use technical assistance in competitions. You wouldn't let someone run the 100 meters with shoes with wheels and a gasoline engine, would you?
While the limbs this fellow is using are not as good as gasoline engines, they are still apparently better than natural limbs - an advantage other athletes can not overcome without amputating their legs.
It's the same logic used in regards to banning steroids - you shouldn't have to destroy your body to have a chance at winning.
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This example of the blade runner just amplifies the unfairness of the Olympics, and it's rather farcical nature. As far as I know there is no way to absolutely and conclusively test for substances (hormones, or otherwise) th
In other news... (Score:5, Funny)
He then bounded over the table and out the door at 40mph.
Re:In other news... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:In other news... (Score:4, Informative)
Actually, if you would read the link above, no they can't. Bonds' device was grandfathered in, and no new player can get one without a legitimate medical reason. The link describes how his enhanced elbow device has grown and advanced over the years up to 2001.
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Re:I never thought I'd see the day ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't get me wrong, I think it's great that this guy has been able to overcome such a tremendous disadvantage so effectively, but in the end it would unfortunately be both unfair and set a bad precedent to allow him to compete. Now, if he wants to handicap (oh the irony) himself by adding weight (?) to his artificial limbs and such to make them more closely approximate the mechanical characteristics of natural limbs, then I think it'd be fair game
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You mean like this?
http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/olympic_runners_feeling [theonion.com]
Harrison Bergeron anyone? (Score:5, Insightful)
Just wait for those 211th, 212th, and 213th amendments to the constitution and the US Handicapper General...
Re:Harrison Bergeron anyone? (Score:5, Informative)
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I don't think having artificial legs is "cheating", though. He couldn't live a life close to normal without them. Because of a device he needs to live as well as he can, he's being blocked from his profession/hobby/avocation/whatever.
While I thing it's wrong that he is being told he can't compete, the legs he uses to run are not normal "walking legs" that amputees normally have. Wired had a great article about him last spring http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/15.03/blade_pr.html [wired.com] and I think I remember it saying that his running legs are not easy to walk on. He has two sets: one for "about the town" as it were and one for sprinting. He *could* run with his walking legs, but his running legs do give him more power.
I for one think he h
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Re:I never thought I'd see the day ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Using a mechanical device that provides an advantage over natural body parts is in fact cheating. The Olympics are not about what can be done by machines, it's about achieving the limits of the human body. When machines are involved, e.g. bicycling, they're a separate event unto themselves. We have devices that could hurl a discus farther than any human possibly could. But that's not what the Discus Throw is about, now is it?
Not that it really matters to the fundamental argument, but really, he does -not- need these particular legs to live a close to normal life. These are legs specifically designed for sprinting, not to let him walk around. He has other legs for that.
a chess tournament that banned players with hearing aids (seriously, WTF?)
I don't know anything about it, but I would wager that it's more about the fear that the hearing aid is actually a wireless speaker and they are receiving coaching. It is presumably a one-on-one chess tournament, and just like using mechanical devices in a foot race is cheating, so is using extra brains.
Though the policy is probably stupid, I'm sure there's a better way to ensure nobody gets remote coaching.
I'm not sure I like this trend of accusing anyone who has artificial replacements for body parts that don't work right of doing something naughty.
He isn't being accused of doing something "naughty". He isn't "accused" of anything. It's just a matter of fact assessment that his synthetic legs provide a mechanical advantage over human limbs, and that this is not what the Olympics are about.
"Naughty" would be if he were trying to somehow hide the fact that he was using performance-enhancing limbs, like athletes lie about using performance enhancing drugs. Maybe if cybernetics become more advanced, this will become an actual issue. In this case though he approached them openly and they said "um, no." It's not a value judgment of his character.
Personally I think this guy and his limbs are pretty awesome. But I also think that a competition about human performance should be about human performance.
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Re:I never thought I'd see the day ... (Score:5, Insightful)
In sharpshooting competitions (which I've been in), you're allowed to compete even if you wear corrective lenses (I'm also a four-eyed "handicapable" person). This is largely because glasses and contacts provide vision that falls well within the range of the average human eye. No distinct advantage is provided by glasses (or contacts) other than allowing the myopic to see roughly as well as their peers can. Vision isn't the only deciding factor in who wins, but it's significant.
Lasig and other forms of eye surgery are now capable of providing vision (in some) that starts to reach into the upper ranges of human vision. This has caused some minor controversy in the sport, but most are not too concerned since it's a common procedure and can still easily be matched by anyone with pretty good vision.
Now what would happen if you took someone who had been blind, but given an operation that restored his sight? It would be uplifting to see such a person compete in a sport they had been previously incapable of competing in. Now what if that same operation involved bionic implants, no matter how simple or complicated, that gave him visual acuity that the very best "naturals" couldn't honestly beat? Even if his advantage was relatively minor, even if his story was so inspiring it made everyone want to cry, the ultimate outcome is that any specific competition he was a part of would be damaged due to one player having a distinctly unfair advantage, little different from allowing someone to use a scope (when others are not).
The Olympics is politically charged, utterly serious, and is full of athletes who devote a significant portion of their lifespan towards training for the opportunity to win. If the rules are all obeyed, they are guaranteed that no competitor will be physically superior to them except by the virtue of better genes or even more intense training. The day someone with a distinct man-made advantage enters the field, the nature of the game changes entirely - the basic measure of fairness is lost.
I'm always proud to see someone with a damaged body overcome their limitations (you know he didn't learn to run on those things overnight), and it's always invigorating to see technology find replacements that, even if limited in scope, surpass nature. But I don't believe that it serves the best interests of the Olympic Games to allow someone with a clear unnatural advantage to compete, no matter if it's their fault or not. Would it be a future track star's fault if his parents had chosen to have him genetically engineered to be a super-human runner?
Re:I never thought I'd see the day ... (Score:5, Informative)
"More intense training" is not the path to elite performance. The goal of coaching is to find the level of intensity at which the athletes body responds and builds fitness most efficiently. When training is too intense, the body becomes less fit. Tissues are broken down faster than they can be rebuilt. Injury or even overtraining syndrome [physsportsmed.com] results.
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So is everyone else competing. They're wearing shoes.
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I think it's high time we invent rocket legs for the handicapped. Do the 100m dash at Mach
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Mmmmm (Score:2)
- less energy consumption
- less load on various blood processing organs
- better performance
- lightweight
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Re:I never thought I'd see the day ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Just looking at them, it's debatable as to whether or not its an advantage, but assuming the science was done correctly, a large mechanical advantage over an unmodified human should be grounds for disqualification from events that only feature unmodified humans. That's just math.
Re:I never thought I'd see the day ... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:I never thought I'd see the day ... (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:I never thought I'd see the day ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I never thought I'd see the day ... (Score:4, Interesting)
http://www.readbookonline.net/readOnLine/2157/ [readbookonline.net]
His short story, the Country of the Blind in which he challenges the assertion that "in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king." Turns out that sight isn't nearly as much of an advantage in a society designed by the blind as one may think.
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"32, Male, across the room."
Not much of a conversation...
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Stupid people drag you down to their level, then beat you with the home-court advantage :-P
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Headline not accurate. (Surprise!) (Score:5, Funny)
It's still possible for the runner to compete, so long as he does not use equipment that gives him an unfair advantage.
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I can see it now - "Dorf on Olympics"...
So... (Score:2, Insightful)
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Re:Headline not accurate. (Surprise!) (Score:5, Interesting)
good, no precedent (Score:4, Insightful)
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The Onion is already got this: "Olympic Runners Feeling Stupid For Cutting Off Legs Before Finding Out About Prosthetic Ban" http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/olympic_runners_feeling [theonion.com]
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Re:good, no precedent (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:good, no precedent (Score:5, Funny)
How about a pay per view televised event where they amputated your legs with a sledge hammer? It would take many swings, but I'm sure 80's celebrity Gallagher could do it with a live audience protected from flying knee meat by a plastic bib.
Certainly that would fetch $20 million.
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Go ahead
Spring instead of 'feet' (Score:5, Interesting)
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I'd think you'd have to be pretty damned dedicated (and psycho) to do that. Personally, I think if a competition sport starts asking that much from their athletes that most athletes would just rather move to a new (perhaps related) sport.
Effects of steroids is delayed pain -- a missing leg or two would have immediate downsides.
Re:Spring instead of 'feet' (Score:4, Interesting)
Many of them actually have constant pain that they just ignore because the doc told them it won't get worse. Its a fact that they get much shorter lives than other people. They start at a very young age, and have no "normal" life from that point on. I could go on, but the point is that what makes them different from the rest of us is not their bodies, but their minds. They are very often psychos. Try getting their honest opinion on politics and you'll realize that.
Get over it. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Get over it. (Score:5, Funny)
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As a hard core atheist, allow me to be the first to say fuck you and the high horse you rode in on.
Atheism has no a jot to do with accepting or discarding human augmentation.
Not faster... more efficient (Score:5, Informative)
The only real surprise is that he hadn't worked this out and competed at the 800m, 1500m or even the 5,000m as that efficiency would really pay off.
Its an artificial aid in the same was a drugs are or riding a bike would be. Its unfortunate for the chap but its the right decision, otherwise you might as well let Marion Jones back in with a terminator suit and a jet-pack.
Wait a minute... (Score:3, Insightful)
I guess I won't be needing these anymore.
I say... (Score:2)
What I do find very interesting is how more effecient these are compared to normal human legs, surely we could so something similar with specialised running shoes/attachments ?
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Isn't there a Special Olympics (Score:3, Interesting)
It'd be unfair either way, for him or for the normal athletes.
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Paralympics (Score:5, Informative)
He could however compete in the Paralympics which are geared towards physical disabilities such as amputees or blind people. They are held in the same year and same city as the regular olympics. The one catch with the paralympics is that because there are so many classifications disabilities they have to rotate through which type gets to compete each year. Think: you couldn't very well have someone missing a leg and a half swimming against someone only missing a foot. I can't remember exactly how many classifications of amputees there are but I think there are enough that an athlete might only get to compete in one Paralympics that falls into their particular condition.
Re:Isn't there a Special Olympics (Score:4, Informative)
More information here (yes i know, reliability etc. but i'm lazy) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscar_Pistorius [wikipedia.org]
AS USUAL (Score:5, Informative)
He's not out because he's "too fast"
He's out because his specific prosthetic lower legs and feet have less wind resistance than normal legs, return WAY more energy per stride than normal legs, and offer him what amounts to a competitive advantage over other runners.
If he wants to compete, he's free to do so, just not with those specific prosthesis.
He can submit others to the Committee for acceptance all day long.
This is no different than the way the olympic committee judges the use of certain swimsuits, softball bats, or any other equipment in use during the Olympics.
It's just common sense (Score:3, Interesting)
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At that point we would have lots of cyborg runners.
Any downside? (Score:2, Interesting)
I know someone who's feet and ankle bones are fusing/disintegrating, why shouldn't they look forward to this?
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Genteleman, we can rebuild him. (Score:3, Funny)
How fast is he really? (Score:2)
Of course he is also the world record holder in these 3 distances in the paralympics.
Carbon Fiber Feet (Score:2)
Where can I get some of those carbon fiber feet?!
Even if I just get a smaller version that fit over my shoes, I could walk a lot faster, lessen strain on my joints, jog farther and more efficiently, and slam dunk like nobody's business. Also, I would be taller.
It seems like this would be good technology to work into a soldier's exoskeleton, too.
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Makes sense (Score:2)
Clearly the prosthetic le
Go-Go Gadget Sports Advantage (Score:3, Interesting)
I mean, think about it. Soccer can be a rough sport but it's nothing compared to American Football. The game is faster and rougher and vastly supported (and in my opinion enhanced) by technology (helmets, pads, shoes, etc). But that would be nothing if players were augmented in such a way to play faster / better / stronger.
Granted, most athletes won't cut their feet off for speed enhancing powers a prosthetic might bestow just yet, but how far off are we from seeing "cybersports" develop and shift into the mainstream?
Old news and bad reporting (Score:2, Interesting)
He's Special... (Score:2)
Life imitates art. (Score:5, Funny)
This isn't, sadly, unfair... (Score:5, Informative)
Second, while most anyone can get a set of limbs like this runner has, actually they can't without significant sacrifice, ie, amuptation. The IOC should, for the sake of decency, not permit that. Speed skaters only had to buy a pair of clapper skates - the barrier was either money or a willing supplier, neither of which was as expensive nor life-altering as amputation for sprinters. Cyclists go through this a lot, with new equipment and all. IIRC, the NBA may have banned a certain Nike sneaker because it assisted jumping too much. Yes, define 'too much'. the IOC has.
Now, if the running community can come up with a similar prosthesis designed for non-amputees that offers the same or nearly equal advantage, then the IOC has an interesting, but easy decision to make. No. The solution isn't to give everyone else some mechanical advantage. It's to resign ourselves to the reality that life is so unfair that a dual amputee needs to use a less effecient prosthetic to compete fairly. And that way lies so much trouble. It becomes some sad exercise in statistics, engineering, and the frustation of figuring out what 'fair' is.
We know fair doesn't include using drugs. And it may not even include using hypobaric chambers to enhance training, someday. It involves runners using the same basic equipment (their natural body, shoes available to all, etc).
I wish this guy could compete. No doubt he will go back and have the limbs redesigned to be more equal to natural limbs. Then he might get a fair shake from the IOC. I hope they let him compete on equal terms.
ps- If he got waxed by Olympic-caliber sprinters with the 'hot' limbs, that doesn't really change anything. It may be that he's not that good, but let him in and surely some runner will say they should be allowed to wear a prosthesis. And another. Chaos. Pure chaos.
The Problem with Sports (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm a distance runner. I love to run and I'm pretty fast. I also like to compete. The problem comes when you start having to decide what "fair" means. Is it fair for this guy not to be able to compete? Is it fair to give him an advantage in one aspect of biomechanics since he's at a disadvantage in others?
Sports in many ways are doomed. Nothing's fair - environmental and genetic factors outside of one's control determine so much. For me, I run because it makes me feel good. I compete as a means to beating my own previous best. It's a romantic thought that sports are somehow fair and that winning comes solely from dedication and drive, but it's far from reality.
I have no idea if this guy should be allowed to compete. It doesn't sound like he's fast enough to change the final placings. In the end, the most important aspect of him trying to race is that his case will help decide the fate of a number of other runners with different, but similar, stories. I, for one, just hope he keeps competing for himself and doesn't let this rejection sour him on running altogether. In the end, everyone gets slow...I like to think I'll enjoy competing in some sort of sports for the rest of my life.
Carbon Footprint (Score:4, Funny)
He's really been banned because his carbon footprint is too large! ;-)
Unfortunate ad placement [fuckthe.eu].
Liberal use of a clue stick is indicated... (Score:5, Informative)
The first was pretty much carbon-fibre, carbon-carbon, and titanium. The foot [ossur.com] provided a bit of energy return to simulate the toe-push on pronation, but was not like the real thing.
The second foot [oandp.com] added an articulated ankle which aided on uneven terrain, but was still not very lifelike.
The third has similar foot to the first, but added a shock-absorber [ottobockus.com] and a vacuum system. Although this leg has some of the best of the current technology, at the end of the day, it sucks. [1]
Understand that I can walk pretty well. Most days, or when I'm not tired from walking all day long, my gait is indistinguishable from other folks. However, even though my 'foot' does provide *some* energy return, it in no way approaches the muscular push-off normal toes provide when walking. (I expect most folks don't even know or feel that they do this any longer.) Of course, I don't have one of the sprinter foots this runner will use in competition. They are specific to that function and just wouldn't work as daily 'footwear'.
All of that is immaterial. His feet don't 'give him way more energy' than a naturally footed sprinter. They can't. The only energy they store is that which is put there by the runner. I haven't studied his running style, but I expect that he has modified his style to maximize the energy put into the foot, and that the foot unloads the energy back into his lower leg on rolling off of the toe. Now, this is unnatural and required a great deal of training before he mastered it well enough to beat footed sprinters. I call bullshit on the IAAF.
That energy is not 'free'. He's had to train to get more fit than footed runners because his gait will not be a natural bone/muscle gait.
Oh, yeah, aerodynamics my ass...
[1] Compared to a real foot.
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Thank you for posting that. I've been an amputee for five years now (today is the fifth anniversary of the motorcycle accident that cost me my left leg below the knee). I have a kick ass foot [freedom-innovations.com] now, the third one that I've had and I joke that this is the second best leg I've ever had, but it's nowhere near as good as the best one I've ever had, which is to say the one that I was born with.
Oscar Pistorius does not have an unfair advantage because of his prosthetics, that's sheer bullshit, he doesn't have a
Re:Liberal use of a clue stick is indicated... (Score:5, Insightful)
When a regular foot hits the floor when running, almost all the energy is lost when it impacts the floor. There is almost no elasticity in the lower leg. This means when making the next stride, almost all the energy needed to maintain speed comes from muscles.
When this carbon limb hits the ground, it flexes, storing some of the force rather than transferring it to the ground. When the next stride is made the carbon limb will want to relieve it's tension and will provide a force that will assist the muscles
Re:Liberal use of a clue stick is indicated... (Score:4, Insightful)
In a 100M dash, that might be irrelevant. In a 400m dash such as the one this fellow raced in, or even longer, energy conservation plays a big role in how much energy you have to "push" at the end of a race. That is why he is deemed to have an advantage.
That's debatable, and your input is really awesome (and varied knowledge like this is why I love slashdot), but I think you missed the reason for the determination here. No one was insinuating this guy was wearing legs that would let him leap tall buildings or anything, or run hyper fast. Just that he would have more energy at the end of the race than a fully legged competitor.
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The entire argument is stupid. How can it ever be fair? It's like saying fit people can't compete because it would be unfair for the obese chainsmokers, or that people with healthy genes can't compete because they get an unfair advantage over people with Parkinson's disease.
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