Anti-Missile Technology To Be Tested on Commercial Jets 490
Hugh Pickens writes "As many as three American Airlines passenger jets will be outfitted this spring with laser technology intended to protect planes from missile attacks. The tests, which could involve more than 1,000 flights, will determine how the technology holds up under the rigors of flight. The technology is intended to stop attacks by detecting heat from missiles, then responding in a fraction of a second by firing laser beams to jam the missiles' guidance systems. A Rand study in 2005 estimated it would cost about $11 billion to protect every US airliner from shoulder-fired missiles. Over 20 years, the cost to develop, procure and operate anti-missile systems could hit $40 billion."
Israeli lobby (Score:2, Informative)
Re:What is wrong with America & American Airli (Score:1, Informative)
You may want to reconsider that statement, Iran Air Flight 655 [wikipedia.org]. But granted, it was not an American flight. But you did mention type. But I would consider any such defence good other than the cost. At the $$$ they are talking about, a $5000 flight each way to pay for it sounds pricey.
Re:Feed the fear (Score:4, Informative)
http://www.senate.gov/~schumer/SchumerWebsite/schumer_around_ny/record.cfm?id=264754& [senate.gov]
and Barbara Boxer (D)
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=politics&id=4447425 [go.com]
Of course what is really happening with these two is that they don't care that much about the technology or the program but by pushing for it they can say "I told you so" if anything were to get shot down.
Re:What is wrong with America & American Airli (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Israeli lobby (Score:5, Informative)
The article says that the system being tested was developed by BAE which is a British company.
Hard to see how BAE could be very close to an Israeli defense company given that 1) the largest single contract BAE has outside NATO is to supply aircraft to Saudi Arabia and 2) the UK government imposed a partial embargo on sales of military equipment to Israel after Israel broke a previous undertaking not to use UK supplied arms in the occupied territories.
This is not about pork, that will come later on. Its about trying to create the illusion of safety and quite likely give a pump to the start wars boondoggle. Its a pretty idiotic idea regardless. The way to stop people shooting down planes is to hand out a slotting to anyone who does: an accountability approach.
Re:Exactly, it will never work (Score:1, Informative)
Wrong. [youtube.com]
Don't you feel stupid now?
Re:Just out of curiousity (Score:3, Informative)
Re:What is wrong with America & American Airli (Score:3, Informative)
True, but it's only a matter of time (or semantics). Look at what happened in Baghdad to a DHL A300: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Baghdad_DHL_attempted_shootdown_incident [wikipedia.org]
It could have just have easily been carrying passengers (vice a cargo variant) elsewhere in the world, like an El Al flight out of Mombassa. Only because of the skill of the aircrew and a lot of luck were they able to land without hydraulics using differential thrust. And, had the flight gone on any longer, chances are the wing spar would have burned through resulting in a catastrophic crash. As it happens, the airframe is a total loss.
Re:What is wrong with America & American Airli (Score:5, Informative)
Only through dumb luck.
Example 1. [nytimes.com]
Example 2. [nytimes.com] (Be sure to scroll down and read about the Israeli 757 that was fired upon in Kenya.)
Example 3. [aircraftre...center.com] (Ok, not a passenger plane, but the terrorists apparently thought it was... and it is a common airliner.)
It's only a matter of time, and everybody knows it.
You know what the FAA does when it has a situation that it knows will eventually result in a disaster costing hundreds of lives? They try to fix it. That's part of their job.
Re:Exactly, it will never work (Score:3, Informative)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ditching#Commercial_aircraft [wikipedia.org]
The most striking one: http://www.nevariver.ru/airplane.php [nevariver.ru] (it's in Russian, but you can see the photo).
Re:Exactly, it will never work (Score:5, Informative)
Actually this crash landing was pretty exceptional in that 50 people survived the 200mph crash landing. Many of those that died died after the crash from drowning[1] [wikipedia.org], as they prematurely inflated their life jackets which made it impossible to get out of the plane as soon as the water level had risen above the level of the doors.
Your chances aren't great, since the year 2000, of 652 people involved in commercial jet emergency water landings, only 10 have survived[2] [yahoo.com].
I'd probably prefer to be blown up by a missile, but I couldn't say for sure until I've tried both.
For a guy who builds it (Score:5, Informative)
Re:how many? (Score:5, Informative)
Several incidents (Score:3, Informative)
In the late 1960's, Israel shot down a Jordanian airliner. In the early 1980's, an Iranian airliner was shot down by an American missile. The American destroyer was off-shore an Iranian city (Abidan, I believe) and was being attacked at the time by several Iranian PT boats. The US destroyer's captain ordered a missile launch against the PT boats, but the missile locked onto a commercial airliner that was on its final approach and blew it up. This incident scared the shit out everyone and caused major revisions in technology and tactics. The Iranians never attacked American warships with PT boats; the Americans didn't park warships so close to the Iranian shore; and an extensive rewriting of the software on the AGEIS ? system was done to prevent a reoccurence of this accident. It hasn't happened since.
In the mid-1980's a Korean 747 was shot down by the Soviets after flying near a secret Soviet airbase in Siberia. All the questions were never answered, but it has never happened again.
In 1987, Islamic terrorists working with Libya blew up a British Airways 747 over Scotland.
In 2000, the Islamic terrorist group, al-Qaida, attempted to blow up between six and twelve commercial airliners flying across the Pacific at the same time. This plot was discovered at the last minute. In 2001, the same group hijacked four airliners at the same time and crashed them into buildings, killing thousands of people in the USA. A year later, a passenger attempted to blow up a jet mid-flight with explosives packed in his shoes. He was subdued while attempting to get the fuse lit. A few years after that, Islamic terrorists based in the UK attempted to cause explosions on several airliners by mixing ordinary household liquids into explosive combinations while the plane's were in flight. This plot was foiled by inspectors who noticed several passengers attempting to board the aircraft while carrying unusually large amounts of legal but curious household chemicals. An example would be swimming pool chlorine mixed with automobile engine degreaser. These two chemicals ignite into a very hot flame when mixed, which occasionally burns up a suburbanite's car on their way home from CostCo.
The most noticeable facet about commercial airliners being shot down by air forces or terrorists is how rarely it happens. Airlines fly constantly in and around militarily hot areas. But airlines and the international air organizations work constantly to make sure airliners stick to established routes and have active ID transponders. Plus, they've made it quite clear to all the third-world dictators and would-be dictators still fighting in the jungle that their own 747 (flying as the trophy airship of the countrie's national airline) would be totally unwelcome at London, Paris, or Zurich airport if they took a notion to fucking around with commercial airliners. That keeps everyone on the straight and narrow.
Re:how many? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:how many? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Just out of curiousity (Score:2, Informative)
If one of your loved ones were on such a flight, would you still be so coldly analytical? Suppose it were your wife? Your son? Your parents? Of course it's worth the money. Every human life is priceless to their dear ones.
What if we spend the $40 billion protecting the planes, but because we spent the money there we weren't able to protect X number of young girls who were abducted from urban areas without enough police presence and street lights? Would you still be so hotly irrational?
It's impossible to know where tragedy will strike, so it's best to spend your money protecting against the most probable attacks (since you only have so much of it to spend).Opportunity cost [wikipedia.org]
Re:how many? (Score:3, Informative)
The guidance package in IR missiles is taking direct heat inputs from the external environment, perhaps with processing and filtering of signals first or perhaps without (i.e proportional signals, converted directly to electrical current, are amplified to directly drive the electro-mechanical servos on the missile stabilizer fins), but regardless the laser is interpreted as a potential input signal from the target. There is no simple AND reliable way to detect that the laser input is part of a defense or countermeasure and not legitimate data from the target (say engine heat) or at least not without varying degrees of uncertainty. It might be possible to combine other systems in the missile, ultraviolet or optical for example, to do differential analysis and better separate out false signals but that probably wouldn't be very simple to do compared to basic IR tracking of the type that would be vulnerable to this countermeasure.
Re:What is wrong with America & American Airli (Score:3, Informative)
Hundreds.
Billions of dollars to save hundreds of lives.
Amazing.
Thanks for the humorous diversion. Can we get back to spending my money on something more productive, now?
Sincerely,
Taxpayer
Re:Several incidents (Score:5, Informative)
- The US warship, the USS Vincennes, which shot down the Iranian Airbus was *NOT* under attack by boats and the aircraft was not on final approach. Crew believed the Airbus was an Iranian F-14 and deliberately shot it down.
The straits of Hormuz are so narrow, it's impossible to *not* be near the Iranian shore. The same holds true, to a lesser degree, for the entire gulf.
- "In 1987, Islamic terrorists working with Libya blew up a British Airways 747 over Scotland."
Several problems with this statement: Firstly, The plane was not "shot down", as per the lead-in to your comment. Secondly, they were not Islamic terrorists - they were believed to be agents of the intelligence service(s) of Libyan (exactly who is unknown, the man convicted for the bombing may well end-up being found to have been wrongfully convicted, and may be released).
- "In 2000, the Islamic terrorist group, al-Qaida, attempted to blow up between six and twelve commercial airliners flying across the Pacific at the same time. This plot was discovered at the last minute."
This sounds a bit speculative, and you've provided little information. Can you provide more details and/or references?
- "A few years after that, Islamic terrorists based in the UK attempted to cause explosions on several airliners by mixing ordinary household liquids into explosive combinations while the plane's were in flight. This plot was foiled by inspectors who noticed several passengers attempting to board the aircraft while carrying unusually large amounts of legal but curious household chemicals."
This is utter rubbish.
Those charged had not bought tickets, so there's no way this plot could have been foiled just prior to boarding. Some didn't even have passports. Most of those arrested were not charged. The rest have not yet been tried. Even if those charged were plotting to blow up planes (and there is doubt), there is a shadow, nay a huge pall, over the viability of liquid, binary explosives being used by passengers to blow up aircraft.