Will The Next Generation of Spacecraft Land In the Water? 318
Reservoir Hill writes "Work is progressing on the design of the new Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle (CEV), the next generation of NASA spacecraft that will take humans to the International Space Station, back to the Moon, and hopefully on to Mars. One major question about the spacecraft has yet to be answered. On returning to Earth, should the CEV land in water or on terra firma? After initial studies, the first assessment by NASA and the contractor for the CEV, Lockheed Martin, was that landing on land was preferred in terms of total life cycle costs for the vehicles. Getting the CEV light enough for the Ares rockets to be able to launch it, and therefore eliminating the 1500 lb airbags for landing has its appeal. A splashdown in water seems to be favored."
Thought about something like this (Score:3, Interesting)
Probably both, it turns out (Score:5, Interesting)
The speculation in this week's Aviation Week was that they would have bolt-on airbags for the earth-orbit flights, and would recover those missions on the land, and would recover at sea for the moon-return missions.
The reentry profile for the moon missions is really quite amazing. Recently Aviation Week had an article about it, describing how to get all the capsules to recover to the same spot on Earth. Do you recall way back in the Apollo days, they always described the narrow re-entry corridor? Too steep and you'd burn up, to shallow and you'd skip back into space forever? Well...
For Orion, they plan to use a skip back into space to bleed off some of the speed coming back from the moon, and to align the craft to re-enter at the correct place to land where they want, off the coast of California. It's an incredibly audacious plan, with tolerances that have to be measured in tenths of a degree of entry angle. Very cool.
Thad
What I don't get (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Thought about something like this (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Thought about something like this (Score:4, Interesting)
Build a 30 foot diameter tube 2 miles deep, with a piston on the bottom. Put brakes on the piston that will limit the acceleration down to about 5G. Empty the piston of water, lower spacecraft onto piston, when you launch just let the piston rise. The thousands of PSI of water pressure should give the spacecraft a significant amount of speed by the time it reaches the surface, light off rocket at a higher altitude than normal so the nozzle can be optimized for a higher altitude burn. I'll work on the math for this.
A stupid simple answer (Score:2, Interesting)
Constellation, Orion, Ares, and the VSE are Dying (Score:2, Interesting)
Sadly, NASA already have existing medium lift (Delta IV, Atlas V) and heavy lift systems (STS via DIRECT SDLV) that could be modified for launching crews at a cost that would be a fraction of the Constellation plan. But heckuva job Mikey G at NASA won't budge from his over-budget, behind-schedule, and under-performing vision. In the process, he's going to end NASA's manned space flight program for at least the next decade while we recover from this debacle, and he's throwing away our once in a generation chance for a new launch system that will enable manned exploration of the Moon and Mars.
Check out the directlauncher.com site to see what NASA should be doing, and once you've realized how maddening this situation is, write your congresscritter about it.
Re:Thought about something like this (Score:3, Interesting)
To use that to escape Earth gravity, though
Breaking the water (Score:3, Interesting)
I don't think it's the surface tension that gets you, it's the inertia. Still, the mobility of water means that you're decellerating from 200 MPH to zero in 0.2 seconds instead of 0.1, so it's a big reduction of force.
Re:Thought about something like this (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:Thought about something like this (Score:5, Interesting)
30 mile long tube buried at a shallow angle, say 5-20 degrees. This lowers the pressure requirements at the bottom end of the tube.
Pressure (every 33 feet per 14.7 psi) Depth = sin(20)*length in feet = 24,100 psi
Acceleration = 5G, d = 1/2*a*t^2, therefore T = 44.5 seconds.
V = Acceleration * time, therefore V = 7110 ft/s
1 m/s = 3.28 ft/s
Delta-v to low orbit is 8600 M/s, or 28000 ft/s
So this method will give us 1/4 of the delta-v needed to get to low orbit.
If an ocean contour could be found that somewhat matched the angle involved, the tube buoyancy and alignment problem could be solved by anchoring it to the sea floor.
12G at 50 miles, 20G@30 miles give 14kft/s (1/2 low orbit delta-v)
50G @ 50 miles gives 29kFt/s, more than enough for LEO if you ignore drag.
This class of launch tubes would be suitable for refueling geo-synch shuttles.
62 mile tube @ 10 degrees (similar idea as the 100km launcher proposed for Antarctica) gives 25kPSI, 9k deltav @ 4 g.
I'm not sure if it would be easier to build a straight tube in Antarctica or in the Ocean.
One other problem is that once you surpass the speed of sound in a medium you no longer receive thrust from it. Speed of sound in water is 1482 m/s, or 4862 feet/s, so you would need to start pumping a hot gas, either rocket exhaust or hot hydrogen into the tube once you passed 4.8kft/sec.
Re:Thought about something like this (Score:2, Interesting)
dunno about that (Score:3, Interesting)
Figuring out exactly how and why a program craps out is a matter for endless debate among historians, but as a general rule, it's probably reasonable to say that any government enterprise that doesn't enjoy phenomenally (and historically aberrent) high levels of public interest and support always craps out sooner or later.
So the first real problem is not who's heading NASA, but the cold ugly fact that most Americans don't give much of a hoot what NASA is doing, would rather watch American Idol than a manned Moon (or Mars) landing, and aren't much interesting in sending their tax dollars to Huntsville for umpty years so that their grandchildren can watch Right Stuffers frolic on the Red Planet. A plain fact, which most folks in the spaceflight industry strenuously try to avoid dealing with by all different types of denial. (Including, incidentally, the paranoid delusion that one single factor -- or man -- stands in the way of the type of broad and deep public support that the space program enjoyed in the brief and historically unique period between 1945 and 1965.)
But the second real problem is that a government program is almost certainly a dead-end nonroute to the kind of massive social and technological change that spaceflight enthusiasts hope spaceflight will produce. There is, actually, no recorded instance whatsoever in history of a government program doing anything more than starting off (at best) something like the colonization of other planets. The voyages of exploration during the 16th and 17th century, and the colonization of the New World in the 18th century, were weakly and inconsistently supported by national goverments: they were, in general, private enterprises, undertaken by individuals for individual dreams of wealth and glory.
That is what is missing in space exploration. There is no individual -- or small entrepreneurial organization -- path to space, and not much private, materialistic, "greedy" and "selfish" motivation for people to risk their fortunes, lives and honor getting into space. If such a thing were to emerge, then humans would naturally get off the planet, not only without any need for massive government programs, but probably in spite of government efforts to stop them. (It would be like MP3 file sharing. Notice no government program was required to get that going? Because it's intrinsically easy? Or because people really want to do it? I'm guessing the latter.)
But until that kind of broad interest emerges, I don't think any amount of government exploration is going to be anything more than expensive entertainment. (Mind you, I don't object to the entertainment, but that's because I personally would, weirdly, rather watch a manned Moon or Mars landing than every first-class gee-whiz movie that will be made from now to the end of time.)
It's worth asking whether government can prime the pump, so to speak, and make it easier for private enterprise and individual ambitions to get into space, so that people can start to get turned on to the whole business, and a broad and deep urge to go can emerge. Maybe it can. Unfortunately, probably step #1 is to back off the goofy noble selfless we came in peace for all mankind aura that clings to the endeavour nowadays, which merely serves to cut it off from the range of activities normal, non-selfless, non-noble people do everyday and think about doing tomorrow.
great lakes (Score:2, Interesting)
Rod