Follow Slashdot blog updates by subscribing to our blog RSS feed

 


Forgot your password?
Close
typodupeerror
×
Hardware Hacking Linux Business Media Build

Major Linux Hardware Donor Is a CNN "Hero" 341

Posted by kdawson from the making-a-difference dept.
christian.einfeldt writes "James Burgett of the Alameda County Computer Resource Center calls himself a 'tattooed freak' and a recovering drug addict, but CNN is calling him a hero (video) for diverting tons of computers from landfills, installing Ubuntu Linux on them, and giving them out to schools, non-profits, and poor people. Burgett's filmed interview is currently leading a CNN contest among videos of 'ordinary people' whom CNN considers everyday heroes, narrowly edging out the video of a man who is saving gorillas from extinction. In his interview, Burgett points out that the people working for him are also recovering drug addicts or recovering mental illness patients." Update: 10/02 23:46 GMT by KD : Reader stefanlasiewski posted a journal article describing how, bewilderingly, the state of California is threatening to shut down Burgett's ACCRC.
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Major Linux Hardware Donor Is a CNN "Hero" More

Major Linux Hardware Donor Is a CNN "Hero"

Comments Filter:

  • Anyone that distributes Linux to the masses (Score:3, Insightful)

    by CaptainPatent ( 1087643 ) on Tuesday October 02, 2007 @04:54PM (#20829751) Journal
    Is a hero in all of our books!

    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by El Lobo ( 994537 )
      Heroe? Oh... I understand... his name was robert paulson, his name was robert paulson, his name was robert paulson

    • Re:Anyone that distributes Linux to the masses (Score:4, Insightful)

      by jmashaw ( 1099959 ) on Tuesday October 02, 2007 @05:29PM (#20830271) Journal

      Is a hero in all of our books!

      Well, I believe that your sentiment is having an apparent effect on the voting:
      /.ed!

      Ironic, he did not want to win, but now thanks to us, he will probably win in a landslide.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by iabervon ( 1971 )
      Actually, he's a major supporting character in Cory Doctorow's book [google.com].

    • Poll Results (Score:3, Interesting)

      by TubeSteak ( 669689 )
      Apparently he's only hero to 1402 of us
      He's winning, but I expect more from a /.ing

      46% 1402 James Burgett
      repairs discarded computers and gives them away

      16% 482 Larry Gibson
      is fighting to protect his land from mountaintop mining

      6% 176 Ken Noguchi
      leads "litter brigades" on the slopes of Mount Fuji in Japan

      33% 997 Eugene Rutagarama
      is dedicated to saving mountain gorillas from extinction

      Maybe we can keep track of the poll's progess here

  • Weird (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Captain Splendid ( 673276 ) <`capsplendid' `at' `gmail.com'> on Tuesday October 02, 2007 @04:55PM (#20829767) Homepage Journal
    A guy actually doing something useful is beating out another guy doing something equally noble but less practical? Checks outside Nope, clear skies, no cats or dogs...

    • Re:Weird (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Otter ( 3800 ) on Tuesday October 02, 2007 @05:07PM (#20829953) Journal
      How do you figure protecting half the world's mountain gorillas, at constant risk of being killed himself, isn't "useful"? With all due respect to Ubuntu, that strikes me as at least as important as supervising a bunch of Linux installs.

      • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

        by Anonymous Coward
        How do you figure protecting half the world's mountain gorillas, at constant risk of being killed himself, is "useful"?

        Noble? yes.
        Useful? What use do you plan to put these gorillas to? Personally, whatever you have in mind, I think it is wrong. These gorillas should be allowed to live in peace instead of being enslaved or turned into fashionable yet durable manufactured goods. You are a bad person.

        • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

          by Otter ( 3800 )
          Useful? What use do you plan to put these gorillas to?

          What use do you plan to put thousands of new Linux users to? At least no one is outsourcing gorillas.

          (Yet, anyway. I suppose if the Rwandan economy continues to pick up, they might get undercut by orangutans.)

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by sauge ( 930823 )
          Ah.

          If life is not useful to you, it may be destroyed.

          That is a text book definition of species-centristic.

          I'll tell that the marvel of life and nature was richer before his was born. Be happy with the gorilla stuffed animal toy.

      • Re:Weird (Score:5, Funny)

        by SeaFox ( 739806 ) on Tuesday October 02, 2007 @06:24PM (#20830893)

        How do you figure protecting half the world's mountain gorillas, at constant risk of being killed himself, isn't "useful"? With all due respect to Ubuntu, that strikes me as at least as important as supervising a bunch of Linux installs.

        Maybe Ubuntu will find some way to show their appreciation to the runner up in their "Gracious Gorilla" release.

      • Re:Weird (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Nyeerrmm ( 940927 ) on Tuesday October 02, 2007 @07:16PM (#20831449)
        I think the real utility of it isn't just that he's install Ubuntu, but the fact that he's doing the gruntwork to collect old computers, put them in a usable state, and redistributing them to those in need. Evangelizing for linux isn't necessarily the point.

  • He realized he'd hit bottom... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 02, 2007 @04:56PM (#20829781)
    ...when he found himself in a public washroom installing Vista for $20.

    (just kidding...keep up the great work!).

  • Good for him. Good for the schools. Good for Linux (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Chas ( 5144 ) on Tuesday October 02, 2007 @04:57PM (#20829801) Homepage Journal
    Getting off drugs, both him and his assistants. VERY Cool.

    Helping out schools. Cool

    Helping the environment. Cool (though some in the "movement" would gripe about the electricity consumed).

    Linux. Uber cool!

    • But (Score:2, Insightful)

      by joeflies ( 529536 )
      Bad for the Gorillas

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by lpangelrob ( 714473 )
        I have no idea where this is from, because the quote was IM'd to me, so it'll have to go unattributed for now. But I think it's appropriate:

        I guess these are endangered. I dunno... seems strange to say endangered when everything is endangered. I like to say they are losing the Darwin race, but people that are really into endangered stuff don't like to hear that.

      • Re:But (Score:5, Insightful)

        by hazem ( 472289 ) on Tuesday October 02, 2007 @05:56PM (#20830617) Journal
        It's not like his installing linux on old computers is keeping the other guy from saving gorillas; or that every computer installed leads to a gorilla not being saved. Rather it's merely that the video of the guy installing linux is slightly more popular than the video of the guy saving gorillas.

        And it's not like he's hurting the knowledge about the gorilla program because I hadn't hear of either until today. If it weren't a guy installing linux (but instead a woman making sandwiches for hungry orphans) then it would have never made it on slashdot.

        So, we can call it a win for both.

        • Re:But (Score:5, Funny)

          by cez ( 539085 ) * <info@historystar ... m ['ay.' in gap]> on Tuesday October 02, 2007 @06:04PM (#20830697) Homepage
          hear hear... and you can bet your ass someone at gorilladot.org just learned what Ubuntu is!

        • Re:But (Score:5, Insightful)

          by MollyB ( 162595 ) * on Tuesday October 02, 2007 @06:31PM (#20830963) Journal
          >So, we can call it a win for both.

          I see it that way, too. But the (American, at least) culture is focused on Winners and Losers to the extent that such rich meditations as yours are easy to miss. Slashdot clearly (witness the comment list) reflects this attitude, but it is nice to see more light and less heat on occasion. Thanks.

          • Re:But (Score:5, Insightful)

            by grammar fascist ( 239789 ) on Wednesday October 03, 2007 @01:18AM (#20833789) Homepage

            I see it that way, too. But the (American, at least) culture is focused on Winners and Losers to the extent that such rich meditations as yours are easy to miss.

            Definitely just Americans. Or something. What was that all about?

            Anyway, here's the real issue: humans have a natural bias to assume a zero-sum game first, even where none exists. It's the source of all envy. Maybe it was a good survival trait back in the poor, nasty, brutish, and short days when competition over resources was fierce, but it's clearly maladaptive now.
    • Off drugs but on CNN? this is an improvement? Hey he is installing Linux and spreading the good word, for that I will forgive.

    • If this man is the one I'm thinking of, he's saving a lot of computers from landfills. Even those of us in the movement have heard what an ecological disaster [silicon.com] that can be. "Reuse" is often the best thing you can do with a used item, even better than recycling.

  • Wow, think of all the PC hardware and Windows sales he's thwarted.

    Ron

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Derek Loev ( 1050412 )
      I just thought about it.
      My conclusion? Not many.
      "He repairs discarded computers and gives them to people who otherwise could not afford one."
      Seems like that means that he's really not diverting that many sales because the people that are taking these computers wouldn't have got one anyway. I'm not saying what he's doing isn't great, but I doubt it's a thorn in Microsoft's foot.

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Rakarra ( 112805 )
        "He repairs discarded computers and gives them to people who otherwise could not afford one."

        That sounds suspiciously like the "well, I wouldn't have bought that album I just downloaded anyway, so no one's losing money" argument often used about file-sharing which many sharers proclaim and the entertainment industry strongly denies. It's not quite the same thing since nothing is getting pirated, but I wonder if the software industry would try to make a similar claim.

      • Re:Hero to the public, Villain to the industry... (Score:4, Interesting)

        by willfe ( 6537 ) <willfe@gmail.com> on Tuesday October 02, 2007 @06:53PM (#20831211) Homepage
        I think this might do more good than that -- these people could otherwise not afford any computer at all, meaning that sure, right now, they're unlikely to run out and buy a Windows-based machine. However, they now own a computer anyway, running Linux. Now they're getting used to it, learning to like it, and when it comes time to get another machine down the road (maybe when their lives are put back together a bit better), they'll be interested in keeping the platform they're used to (meaning they're a *new* market of up-and-coming customers, who won't be trained to seek out the latest Microsoft dreck).
    • 1000000 according to Excel.

    • That's right, what he's doing is awful. By providing all these free computers, he's depriving major manufacturers of a lot of sales, which hurts the economy and causes hardworking Americans to lose their jobs. This communist is taking food out of the mouths of starving children whose parents can't find jobs. He should be locked up!

      (I hope it's really obvious that I'm kidding, but sadly some people do believe that sort of crap)

      • YOu are forgetting that CA is a liberal state, which means they pay something like $60+ mandatory recycling fee on a computer (CPU+monitor)...

        Which means that the crackhead is billing the schools at least $60 per each piece of junk he 'fixes.' This has to be paid even if the school is unhappy with the computer and wants to get rid of it!

        • You are plain wrong. (Score:5, Informative)

          by tux_deamon ( 663650 ) on Tuesday October 02, 2007 @09:34PM (#20832515)
          Wrong. All electronics recycling is FREE at the ACCRC. That means, if you bring your old computer and monitor to this facility, and you are a resident of California, you pay nothing.

          Furthermore, the refurbished computers that are granted by ACCRC to nonprofits and needy individuals are granted free of cost. Zero. No dollars.

          If the recipient is not happy with the free computer they received, they can return it for no charge. Again, it's free at the ACCRC.

          There's no mandatory recycling fee either for disposing or receiving a recycled computer. There is a recycling fee assessed to the purchase of new monitors by a reseller. You basically pay your recycling fee when you buy your monitor. This is similar to car batteries. That said, if you don't buy a new monitor, and instead say receive a free monitor from an organization like ACCRC, you pay nothing.

    • The WTO [wto.org] will be around to see him shortly. You are right this is anti-competitive and a danger to the market economy^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hdemocracy.

  • You don't have to be crazy.. (Score:5, Funny)

    by onkelonkel ( 560274 ) on Tuesday October 02, 2007 @04:59PM (#20829821)
    You don't have to be crazy to install Linux

    but it helps!

    sorry... old joke...couldn't resist

  • I know (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 02, 2007 @05:04PM (#20829897)
    Get the gorrillas to start using linux. That would surely win the top prize then.
    • Yes, but what of the gorilla children. Surely as the future generation of gorilla - kind we must start them out at an early age. Some one needs to design a low cost/ low power gorilla proof laptop for third world gorillas. Like the one laptop per child, but for gorilla children as they are cuter, more endangered, and would make a better plot to a movie co-starring Clint Eastwood.

    • Get the gorrillas to start using linux. That would surely win the top prize then.

      I doubt you'll ever get Steve Ballmer et al. to start using linux.

    • The Lone Gunmen [twiztv.com] showed a monkey using Linux:

      SCENE 10

      (Back in the barn. FROHIKE carries PEANUTS in and sits him on the table.)

      FROHIKE: All right. Time for a meeting of the minds. Talk, you thief. Say something.

      BYERS: Please, Peanuts.

      LANGLY: Speak.

      YVES: He can't. He's a chimpanzee, he doesn't have the vocal cords for speech. Haven't you figured that out yet?

      LANGLY: So what can he do? Besides Grand Theft Auto.

      (YVES places a laptop in front of PEANUTS, who immediately begins typing.)

      FROHIKE: It's gibberish.

      BYER
  • Wow... I don't have sound at work, but felt compelled to watch the video anyway. With all the fade-aways and cut-scenes, had I not read the article I would have assumed that by working on a computer, I would become a narcotics abuser! 0.o

    Come on man... just one more refresh...

  • Good for him (Score:5, Insightful)

    by avm ( 660 ) on Tuesday October 02, 2007 @05:08PM (#20829967) Journal
    Good for him, on a number of levels.

    First, on a personal level, for taking control of his life back.
    Second, on an environmental level, for saving unnecessary rubbish from a landfill somewhere.
    Third, on a charitable level, for donating the results of his work.
    Fourth, on an economic level, for using free software and cast-off hardware to do something useful.
    Fifth, on a geek level, for using Linux to do it.

    My hat's off to you, sir.
    • Second, on an environmental level, for saving unnecessary rubbish from a landfill somewhere.

      Overall, I agree with you, but isn't this stuff going to end up in the landfill eventually, anyhow?

      When folks talk about "landfill", I presume you mean it like a "resource", and therefore care about "conservation"... so it seems to me this guy just gives a few extra years of life to these computers before they end up in the landfill - but consuming energy before they do.

      So, ...on an economic level, for using fr

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by fractoid ( 1076465 )

        Wouldn't the "carbon footprint" be smaller if you just trashed them now?

        If you're looking purely at carbon emissions, maybe, but an old computer uses about as much electricity as two to three incandescent light bulbs. Not very much carbon to be had there. Nothing like the modern 350-500W power supplies and video cards that need their own power plug. Any time one of these recycled PCs fills a role that would otherwise be taken by a new PC, we save masses of energy from manufacturing as well as a small amount due to lower power consumption.

        On an economic level, we now have a s

  • Interestingly, James is asking voters to vote for the other folks [blogspot.com]:

    "Vote for the gorillas. 25 grand and fame that id probably just piss away anyway is not worth a specie.".

    Nice honest opinion from the Hero.

  • California doesn't like him.. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by nsanders ( 208050 ) on Tuesday October 02, 2007 @05:12PM (#20830035) Homepage
    He's in a bit of trouble with the law too: http://www.boingboing.net/2007/09/16/computer-recycler-th.html [boingboing.net]

    The Department of Toxic Substance Control of the California Environmental Protection Agency has issued the ACCRC a violation that could make it very hard for the group to stay in business. And, quite frankly, that's a damned shame.

    • Life imitates art. Unbelievable. (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Tackhead ( 54550 ) on Tuesday October 02, 2007 @05:36PM (#20830357)
      > He's in a bit of trouble with the law too: http://www.boingboing.net/2007/09/16/computer-recycler-th.html [boingboing.net]
      >
      >The Department of Toxic Substance Control of the California Environmental Protection Agency has issued the ACCRC a violation that could make it very hard for the group to stay in business. And, quite frankly, that's a damned shame.

      And when I wrote Natalie's Restaurant [slashdot.org] more than two years ago, I thought it was fiction. Shit, the only thing I got wrong was that I imagined a San Francisco bureaucrat, as opposed to a Berkeley bureaucrat, and that my imaginararily-awkwardly-named "California Computer Recycling Use Fee Commission" wasn't long enough to match the actual bureaucracy's name (namely the "Department of Toxic Substance Control of the California Environmental Protection Agency").

      Because nobody, not even in the Bay Area, could be so dumb as to suggest that tossing a bunch of working hardware into a container ship bound for a crusher/smelter in China, was somehow a "more green" solution than reusing (and giving away) perfectly functional hardware so that it doesn't go into the waste stream in the first place.

      But then again, that's the difference between recycling as done by folks like the ACCRC - which is interested in reducing and reusing as well as recycling - and recycling as done by a government bureaucrat, to whom the only "green" that matters is how many taxpayer dollars can be milked out of an operation.

      So we'll sing it again when it comes 'round on the guitar.

      Can you imagine fifty people a day, I said fifty people a day, diggin' through their closets and attics, findin' somethin' that still works, and givin' it to someone who ain't got one? And friends, they may think it's a movement...

      • Nice irony. Was that van powered by biodiesel?

        I imagined a San Francisco bureaucrat, as opposed to a Berkeley bureaucrat,

        This threat came from a State agency, who just happen to have an office in Berkeley--- not a Berkeley agency.

        Sadly, I'm not sure if the City of Berkeley is doing anything to help the ACCRC.

      • Re:Life imitates art. Unbelievable. (Score:5, Informative)

        by E-Lad ( 1262 ) on Tuesday October 02, 2007 @07:01PM (#20831301)

        Can you imagine fifty people a day, I said fifty people a day, diggin' through their closets and attics, findin' somethin' that still works, and givin' it to someone who ain't got one? And friends, they may think it's a movement...
        It already exists. It's called Freecycle [freecycle.org].
    • James Burgett was featured on the front page of Digg.com [digg.com], where he got 2906 diggs for his blog entry about his dispute with the government (spam warning: I dugg that story). James has subsequently told me that he and the government are working things out. He is not entirely satisfied with the government's approach, but at least he will be able to continue operating his excellent Ubuntu box giveaway program. So it seems as if the attention from the popular media (Digg in that case) has taught the governme
    • That article points out that "You might even collect some of the vintage electronics that comes through the door and hang on to this stuff because you think it's cool and somebody may want it someday."

      I thought that it is a violation for a charity to allow its workers to claim any donation for their own personal use? It is an unspoken perk often given to volunteers, but it is a violation to do so, from what I've read in other articles about charity work.

      • hang on to this stuff because you think it's cool and somebody may want it someday.
        I thought that it is a violation for a charity to allow its workers to claim any donation for their own personal use?
        Care to show me where it says that 'somebody" means "volunteer worker", because I don't see it.

        It's pretty clear to me that he's talking about a museum (or some other organization) finding it useful for display.
    • Interestingly, the dude says on the centre's blog that the DTSC have seen the error of their ways, independently of the Internet's efforts, and dialed back. For instance, they're no longer demanding that some of the old computers they're keeping around for preservation purposes need to be disposed of.
  • This would be the same recycling center that was recently issued a violation [boingboing.net] by the California Environmental Protection Agency...

    I hope they come out of it OK, good to see them getting more positive publicity. Reduce, Recycle Reuse!
    • James Burgett was featured on the front page of Digg.com [digg.com], where he got 2906 diggs for his blog entry about his dispute with the government (spam warning: I dugg that story). James has subsequently told me that he and the government are working things out. He is not entirely satisfied with the government's approach, but at least he will be able to continue operating his excellent Ubuntu box giveaway program. So it seems as if the attention from the popular media (Digg in that case) has taught the government that James was doing something that was sufficiently meaningful to the community that the regulators should really try to work with him. His fans in the community will continue to watch his operation to make sure that if the government does exercise poor discretion in its oversight of his operation, at least we can give them an earful.

      Full disclosure: I do not work with / for James or CNN. I do volunteer for a public middle school in San Francisco, California that benefited from a donation of 30 Ubuntu fat clients for our Linux chubby terminal lab.

  • Similar... (Score:5, Informative)

    by Phroggy ( 441 ) <slashdot3@NOsPaM.phroggy.com> on Tuesday October 02, 2007 @05:24PM (#20830203) Homepage
    Anyone in Portland should check out FreeGeek [freegeek.org] and consider volunteering.

  • I donated my 486 (Score:3, Informative)

    by MichaelCrawford ( 610140 ) on Tuesday October 02, 2007 @05:35PM (#20830355) Homepage Journal
    ... to the Yellow Network Coalition. They don't seem to be around anymore, but they would install Linux on old PCs and give them to low-income people.

    Their name was inspired by the yellow bicycles in Amsterdam, which I understand are freely available for anyone to take and ride around on.

  • Back when they were still installing SuSe 9.2 :).

    It was a great experience, lots of cool old hardware (I got to actually see and touch a NeXT cube!) and if you are in the bay area and have weekends or a summer to spare, I recommend checking them out.

    • I volunteered at the ACCRC a couple of days during the Suse 9.2 days.

      One day I went out on a nice 5-hour bike ride up and down the shoreline trail. I stopped by the ACCRC at 5:00PM to volunteer for an install fest. In one evening we churned out 200 PCs with 5 people, SuSE autoyast and some shipping-plastic wrap.

      I helped to carry the fridge up three flights of narrow stairs. Were you there for that?
      • I don't think so, I managed to miss all the install fests. I went to go install the media labs on the USS Hornet though, were you there for that?
  • Its california, what else would you expect?
  • Looks like I'm going to have to quit saying there's no such thing as a fat crackhead.

  • He wants you to vote for the gorilla guy (Score:3, Interesting)

    by ChaoticCoyote ( 195677 ) on Tuesday October 02, 2007 @08:31PM (#20832021) Homepage

    From the aftermath technologies blog [blogspot.com]:

    I don't know how to do this but I disagree with those of you who are voting me up in the cnn poll.

    Of the four people there only one is dealing with extinction. Dead is dead, anything else is negotiable. Vote for the gorillas. 25 grand and fame that id probably just piss away anyway is not worth a specie.

    I don't know if it will help, but I'd feel like crap if I won and the gorillas went extinct.

    He's right. I voted for the gorillas.

  • "Liberal" California (Score:4, Interesting)

    by OrangeTide ( 124937 ) on Tuesday October 02, 2007 @08:33PM (#20832035) Homepage Journal
    Generally I've found that Californian "liberalism" does not tolerate people who are poor. From putting officers on duty to confiscate shopping carts from the homeless, to pushing homeless out of town. If you want to run a business that gives ex-cons and ex-addict a real job they can come to every day and make a better living for themselves, you get shut down.

    Pro-environmentalism California is entirely about special interests. If you're not a lobbyist, then your voice won't be heard. The environmental issues are driven entirely by special interest groups managed by the Elites, people and business with the money to make or break a representative's future campaign.

    It's curious that California is pro environment with it's complex and confusing beverage recycling program. When compared to states like Michigan that take 10 cent deposit on a soda can, and you get all 10 cents of your deposit back. while California has a "redemption value" which you almost never get the same amount back that you put into it. (it's taxed, and the value the recycling centers pay is sometimes below what you paid at the store). Also huge expensive recycling centers are subsidized, and are generally in bad neighborhoods so most people don't even try to collect their refund value. While in other states you simply drop off your empty cans at a participating grocery store, and they print you a receipt (at no additional charge) that you can exchange for cash or just apply to your grocery bill. Private companies foot the bill but in return they get foot traffic to their stores, so they are more than willing to pay.

  • recycling not linux evangelism (Score:3, Interesting)

    by FelixGordon ( 1132635 ) on Tuesday October 02, 2007 @10:19PM (#20832823)
    People tend to be missing the point here, blinded by the fact that the guy is using Linux. He's recycling computers. If half the stuff I've read from tech-waste doomsayer articles is true, this is definitely working towards dealing with an environmental problem. There's no obvious ideology bullshit here, it's recycling.

  • Microsoft spin on it (Score:3, Insightful)

    by dave562 ( 969951 ) on Wednesday October 03, 2007 @01:24AM (#20833813) Journal
    I can imagine the headlines coming out of Redmond already... Anyone who uses Linux is obviously a mentally ill drug addict.

  • The state is not that harsch (update) (Score:3, Insightful)

    by cheros ( 223479 ) on Wednesday October 03, 2007 @04:56AM (#20834755)
    If you read his blog you'll find an entry that identifies the State is working with him to come to a sensible conclusion so it appears that sanity has prevailed in this situation (probably generously assisted by the bad press the situation had created, but that's only an assumption).

    So it's not as grim as it appears.

    I also think his stance on the CNN vote is admirable - he has a very good point.

Slashdot Top Deals

The truth of a proposition has nothing to do with its credibility. And vice versa.

Close