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Sanyo Blamed in Lenovo Battery Recall 66

Posted by Zonk from the started-explodey-and-then-got-less-so dept.
ukhackster writes "Those overheating laptop batteries are back. Lenovo is recalling 205,000 'extended' batteries which shipped with its ThinkPad machines, or were bought as replacements. Slashdot readers will doubtless remember the flak which Sony attracted last year, after it was blamed for exploding Dell notebooks and several massive recalls. This time, the batteries were made by Sanyo. Their engineers determined that the failure was repeatable by dropping machines using the batteries from a certain height and at a certain angle. As soon as the repeatable nature of the flaw was determined, a recall was issued."
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Sanyo Blamed in Lenovo Battery Recall More

Sanyo Blamed in Lenovo Battery Recall

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  • Correction (Score:5, Insightful)

    by p0tat03 ( 985078 ) on Thursday March 01, 2007 @03:56PM (#18199024)

    As soon as the repeatable nature of the flaw was determined, a recall was issued.

    Correction: As soon as finance and legal determined that the:

    1 - The cost of settling out of court with the projected number of people harmed by this defect.
    2 - Lost business due to bad publicity caused by this defect.

    would exceed the cost of recall, a recall was issued.

    • Re:Correction (Score:4, Funny)

      by pete-classic ( 75983 ) <hutnick@gmail.com> on Thursday March 01, 2007 @04:04PM (#18199134) Homepage Journal
      Ah, The Formula:

      Take the number of [units] in the field, (A), and multiply it by the probable rate of failure, (B), then multiply the result by the average out-of-court settlement, (C). A times B times C equals X... If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.

      • Re:Correction (Score:5, Funny)

        by sRev ( 846312 ) on Thursday March 01, 2007 @04:07PM (#18199200)
        The first rule of batter recall is you don't talk about battery recall.

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by PC-PHIX ( 888080 ) *

        Take the number of [units] in the field, (A), and multiply it by the probable rate of failure, (B), then multiply the result by the average out-of-court settlement, (C). A times B times C equals X... If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.

        The actual formula is (A x B x C) + D = X

        Where A is units in the field, B is the rate of failure, C is the settlement cost and D is the cost of all the laptops IBM engineers had to drop to confirm the fault existed!

        If X is still less than the cost

    • Since they were made by Sanyo, there's a good chance they can make Sanyo accountable for at least part of their loss.

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by PC-PHIX ( 888080 ) *

        Since they were made by Sanyo, there's a good chance they can make Sanyo accountable for at least part of their loss.

        Unless the design of the laptop failed to protect the battery in a way that exceeds or does not meet Sanyo's decision specifications.

        Since the batteries are not exploding or overheating under normal operating conditions, the problem is largely just a liability issue for IBM/Lenovo since their laptop's (when dropped) can become dangerous. I doubt Sanyo were contracted to make a battery t

  • Not the first Sanyo Battery Recall.... (Score:5, Informative)

    by 8127972 ( 73495 ) on Thursday March 01, 2007 @03:57PM (#18199032)
    .... as there have been others:

    http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0 DE2DB1731F93BA35751C1A9609C8B63 [nytimes.com]
    http://www.techspot.com/news/23809-sanyo-faces-13m -cellphone-battery-recall.html [techspot.com]

    I guess this proves that it's not just Sony that puts the "boom" into laptops.

    • Re:Not the first Sanyo Battery Recall.... (Score:4, Funny)

      by jackharrer ( 972403 ) on Thursday March 01, 2007 @04:02PM (#18199108)
      Difference is that Sanyo's batteries need to be hit quite hard in a corner to overheat, but Sony's have it as a standard feature.
      Hard to blame Sanyo for users' actions. Like dropping a laptop. ouch!
      • I find it really amusing that there must be some people out there who accidentally dropped their laptop.

        I thought dropping a laptop was bad enough but Sanyo just had to make them explode when dropped.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by arivanov ( 12034 )
          One of the reasons why many companies buy IBM/Lenovo is that it generally survives a 1m drop test. I know plenty of companies that actually ask for a drop test from any new laptop vendor and the only one to agree used to be IBM and Panasonic.

          The only other non-ruggedised laptops to consistently survive 1m drop test that were pre-merger Compaqs (HP does not). Most other non-ruggedised systems do not survive through that (and that is not a lot).

          So, as a matter of fact, the laptop being hit very hard and being

          • The only other non-ruggedised laptops to consistently survive 1m drop test that were pre-merger Compaqs (HP does not). Most other non-ruggedised systems do not survive through that (and that is not a lot).

            What about Macs? I've heard stories about Powerbooks surviving drops like that, and the polycarbonate cases on iBooks seem pretty durable...

    • True, but since I just bought a Sanyo cell phone, I figure I just got a lot more bang for my buck.

    • I guess this proves that it's not just Sony that puts the "boom" into laptops.

      And further proves my personal theory that corporations with the letters S O N and Y in their name are bad at battery manufacturing and quality control. =P

  • Oh let me guess, someone dropped their laptop while it was turned on, and instead of flopping and the plastic taking the abuse, it exploded, right?

    *reads article*

    Nope, it was folks complaining of a hot lap from their laptops.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Tackhead ( 54550 )
      > Nope, it was folks complaining of a hot lap from their laptops.

      Serves 'em right for using 3-D real-time rendered CGI pr0n to get their laps doubly warm, rather than 2-D pr0n like God intended.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by mandelbr0t ( 1015855 )

      Nope, it was folks complaining of a hot lap from their laptops.
      I had to bring a computer in for repair with this symptom. The machine became increasingly unstable and the battery became hotter. In addition to being a fire hazard, the motherboard, processor and RAM are put under a lot of heat stress. "Complaining" is a loaded term here as the complaints speak to a real problem.
  • Lets hope that no one gets hurt from this though... Also I hope people don't do this and get hurt purposely to get money either.

  • Well (Score:3, Interesting)

    by madsheep ( 984404 ) on Thursday March 01, 2007 @03:58PM (#18199052) Homepage

    Slashdot readers will doubtless remember the flak which Sony attracted last year, after it was blamed for exploding Dell notebooks and several massive recalls.
    Well first this should be singular not plural for "exploding Dell notebooks". Look at the original article which is linked to and notice how it's singular. Second, are we forgetting about the same issue that was in the Apple laptops? Talk about one-sided.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by 8127972 ( 73495 )
      IIRC, Apple laptops didn't explode with the same frequency that Dells did for whatever reason. That leads me to believe that the Apple recall was more for optics than anything else.

      • Re:Well (Score:5, Funny)

        by LiquidCoooled ( 634315 ) on Thursday March 01, 2007 @04:05PM (#18199160) Homepage Journal
        Your correct.
        Their laptops explode at a totally different frequency.

        Apples' magic smoke is colour coordinated and scented.

        Its actually a rather nice rainbow effect which draws in a crowd of people who all get burnt.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by dedazo ( 737510 )

        Apple laptops didn't explode with the same frequency

        "We kill you less often than Dell" - Apple

        • "We kill you less often than Dell" - Apple
          Would make for a "Hi I'm a mac and I'm a PC" commercial.

          • Re:Well (Score:4, Funny)

            by morgan_greywolf ( 835522 ) * on Thursday March 01, 2007 @05:12PM (#18199914) Homepage Journal
            Mac guy (in sitting position): Hi, I'm a Mac notebook.

            PC dork (in sitting position): And I'm a PC noteb....

            *BOOOOOOOOMM*

            Mac guy: looks like the PC had a Sony battery again!

            New PC dork: Hi, I'm a PC notebook.

            Mac guy: You're not going to blow up like the last on...

            *BOOOOOOMMMM*

            Mac guy: Guess so.

            Mac guy: See? Mac's don't bl....

            ***BBBOOOOM****

            Fade to white:

            Apple Notebooks: Less Explosive.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by wmshub ( 25291 )
      There were multiple exploding laptops. In addition to the one that got news attention, somebody representing me at a confrence borrowed a Dell laptop, which burst into flames while they were taking notes. This one was not as widely reported - unless you happen to be on the American Go Assocation mailing list, you probably wouldn't have heard of it!
  • It is pretty good and Lenovo is being proactive about recalling their batteries, rather than waiting.

    Since the two types of exploding batteries we have seen so far are from two different producers (sony and sanyo) I am wondering if this is an inherent flaw in the battery type itself, or if it is just that both manufacturers use similar production methods?

    Regardless I think I will wait until we have hydrogen cell batteries before I go buy a laptop, at least that way if one happens to explode you don't need t
    • Lithium batteries are indeed pretty dangerous, all by themselves. Lithium is in the group of most reactive metals. That's why there's so much research into new types of batteries.
      According to Wikipedia, there's several mechanisms a lithium battery needs to have before it can be approved for use: a shut-down separator (for overtemperature), a tear-away tab (for internal pressure), vent (pressure relief), and thermal interrupt (overcurrent/overcharging).

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by 15Bit ( 940730 )
        The danger has little to do with the presence of lithium - there is no lithium metal in lithium ion batteries. It has to do with the oxidation chemistry of the electrode materials.
    • Even if the joke is silly it is hardly a troll

      And of course:
      I for one welcome our new but not original lap heating exploding overlords

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by 15Bit ( 940730 )
      >I am wondering if this is an inherent flaw in the battery type itself,

      >or if it is just that both manufacturers use similar production methods?

      It is a fundamental flaw - Li batteries contain a large amount of chemical energy in a very small volume, so when they go wrong theres a lot of energy which needs to go somewhere. Separating the fail mechanisms into two rough categories we have:

      (1). Exposure to air (puncture of the casing) - The battery electrodes are inherently unstable with respect to

  • What are the odds? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by biocute ( 936687 ) on Thursday March 01, 2007 @04:00PM (#18199080)
    Their engineers determined that the failure was repeatable by dropping machines using the batteries from a certain height and at a certain angle.

    While it is almost unimagineable for engineers to lab-test this kind of failure, I'm equally surprised by that fact that they received five complaints on this (assumed same) problem.
    • Well, if we assume that the people who dropped their laptops have butterfingers and drop their laptops on a normal basis, then consider the number of IBM laptops possibly equipped with that series of batteries, it instinctively feels like it shouldn't be that rare...

    • They're actually quite high (Score:5, Interesting)

      by EmbeddedJanitor ( 597831 ) on Thursday March 01, 2007 @05:47PM (#18200296)
      I've been in the product development game too long to be suprised by this. I've seen a lot of pretty strange mechanical damage, often to do with batteries.

      Batteries are pretty dense and thus tend to have a lot of inertia relative to the rest of the guts of a device. If you drop an electronic device (or anything for that matter) onto a hard surface, it is in for a good few gs of acceleration. Sure, there are posts and reatining plastic etc, but these tend to be stronger in some angles than others.

      Sometimes certain damage only happens within a certain "shock window". Eg. Drop from 2 ft and nothing breaks, the plastic retains everything; drop from 3ft and the two posts retaining the battery fail allowing the battery to strike the hard disk and get dented; drop from 6 ft and a different buch of posts fail causing the stress to be relieved in a different way and the battery does not strike the hard disk.

      And, actually, lab engineers do routinely test for drop and vibration failure but that is more in the interests of seeing at what point a system fails rather than looking for safety issues a battery explosion.

    • The batteries used nowadays are LiPo (Lithium Polymer) batteries. The upside of these is that their WattHours/weight ratio is the highest available. The downside is that these batteries can get in a so called thermal runaway situation, where the chemicals in the battery more or less provide their own shortcircuit. As LiPos can deliver massive amounts of current, this quickly leads to the cell rupturing and venting hot flammable gasses. The heat from this reaction will set off the reaction in the other cells

  • Recall outcome (Score:5, Funny)

    by fahrbot-bot ( 874524 ) on Thursday March 01, 2007 @04:15PM (#18199276)
    ...the failure was repeatable by dropping machines using the batteries from a certain height and at a certain angle...

    A Sanyo spokes-person reports that the recall involves affixing a sticker to the affected batteries as to the proper height and angle from which to drop a laptop to avoid battery failure. All other procedures will void the warranty.

    [Actually, their methodology reminds me of an old Police Squad episode where the detectives were trying to determine how a body fell into the chalk outline by repeatedly shooting volunteers from different angles. In the background was a pile of bodies from previous experiments.]

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by mikael ( 484 )
      The sticker will read "this side towards enemy" and all spare batteries will be resold to the army.
  • First Sony batteries explode, then Sanyo batteries overheat..

    Note to self: avoid Stony silences, stay away from Sandy beaches, and don't talk to people named Sonya.
  • [quote]Slashdot readers will doubtless remember...[/quote]

    lern2edit
  • I have a sanyo DVD player and the back of it states that it was manufactured by Sony corp. Sanyo a shell/subsidiary of Sony? Which would once again put the issue is Sony's lap.....

  • If they'll explode (Score:2, Interesting)

    by thewils ( 463314 )
    Does that mean that the airport security screeners will be checking battery serial numbers?

    OK, no-one make a move or I'll throw my battery at the pilot's cabin door!!!
    • Actually, you raise a good point, joke or otherwise. It would probably only take one laptop battery going haywire from any vendor to cause new rules about laptops on airplanes. I guarantee you if you had any of the laptops burst into flames as a result of the battery with an airplane actually in the air -- you would see whole new rules temporarily if not permanently. Man that would be a real PITA.
  • a beowolf cluster of thoBOOOOOM... BOOOMM... Boom...

  • Ok, list of companies I can't buy stuff from: (Score:5, Funny)

    by feepness ( 543479 ) on Thursday March 01, 2007 @04:47PM (#18199648)
    Lenovo - Bad batteries
    Sony - Rootkits
    Microsoft - FUD / monopolistic designs
    Apple - DRM

    I'm just going to sit here in the dark and enjoy my sense of self-righteousness.

    Mmmmmmm.....
    • Sony has bad batteries too. Better avoid them more than MS.
    • sony has MUCH more wrong than you listed.

      off the top of my head, there was a major camera sensor failure by sony, and a LOT of cams used sony sensors. but its known and acknowledged and it seems that people are able to get their cams fixed if its really a faulty sony sensor inside your cam.

      sony is evil for memory stick. proprietary memory format. sd and cf wasn't good enough for them, it seems.

      sony is also evil for the batteries in the dell laptops.

      and that's JUST THIS YEAR! (seriously)
  • Judging by the frequency of these recalls, this seems to be a bit of a risk with Li based batteries. Is it just bad manufacturing with laptop batteries or is the manufacture of Li batteries generally troublesome? I was watching an piece on the Tesla electric car (0-100 km/h in 4 s!) last night and the manufacturer explained that they use Li batteries, having seen videos of exploding laptops I really wouldn't want to be in a Telsa (or equivalent) when the batteries blew up!
    • The problem is with the oxide-based chemistry of most of the Lithium batteries. The oxide provides a source of oxygen for continued combustion after initial ignition.

      Valence Technology makes a much safer lithium battery -- but the problem is that the safer chemistry has a trade off of somewhat reduced charge capacity, and these batteries cost more.

      There's a video that Valence put out which you can find on YouTube [youtube.com] where you can see spectacular Li-ion fires.
  • "Their engineers determined that the failure was repeatable by dropping machines using the batteries from a certain height and at a certain angle."

    So they had to "drop it like it's HOT"?

  • Comment removed (Score:3, Informative)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Thursday March 01, 2007 @05:37PM (#18200158)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • My battery was affected... (Score:5, Informative)

    by Mad Merlin ( 837387 ) on Thursday March 01, 2007 @06:07PM (#18200588) Homepage

    You give Lenovo your ThinkPad product and serial number, battery serial number, shipping address and they'll ship you a new battery in 4-6 weeks. Go to it [ibm.com] if you have a battery of model 92P1131.

    You can use `cat /proc/acpi/battery/BAT0/info | grep model` to find your battery model without removing it.

    • C:\cat /proc/acpi/battery/BAT0/info | grep model
      Bad Command or File Name
      C:\

      *ducks*
      • C:\cat /proc/acpi/battery/BAT0/info | grep model
        Bad Command or File Name
        C:\

        *ducks*

        *laptop explodes*

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by messju ( 32126 )
      `cat /proc/acpi/battery/BAT0/info | grep model` gives me "IBM-COMPATIBLE".
      I have one of those cheap chinese clones so I must be on the safe side. :)

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