Fuel Tanks Made of Corncob Waste 176
Roland Piquepaille writes "The National Science Foundation is running a story on how corncob waste can be used to created carbon briquettes with complex nanopores capable of storing natural gas. These methane storage systems may encourage mass-market natural gas cars. In fact, these 'briquettes are the first technology to meet the 180 to 1 storage to volume target set by the U.S. Department of Energy in 2000.' They can lead to flat and compact tanks and have already been installed in a pickup truck used regularly by the Kansas City Office of Environmental Quality. And as the whole natural gas infrastructure exists already, this new technology could be soon adopted by car manufacturers."
Further adaptions (Score:4, Funny)
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Didnt think so. Thats why engines stall when you plug their exhaust pipes.
As for the topic at hand, I am pretty excited about it. The volume of the average gas tank is 15 gallons, so that makes a 2700 gallon tank for methane thats the same size as a gasoline tank. 2700 gallons of methane makes approxia
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Old technology, in fact (Score:2)
Like every other single attempt to add complexity for a marginal gain in efficiency, it was not a success. All engineering involves tradeoffs: combining technologies with different metallurgical, thermal, gasflow etc. requirements means that no
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I did think about doing something similar to power an air conditioner. There is alot of wasted heat which can be used to generate engery.
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It won't happen because you can make a throttling valve out of crimped piece of pipe, while turbines are still expensive little devices, and the energy savings are not large enough to justify the extra upfront cost.
YET
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They have to have a certain amount of back pressure, otherwise the engine won't run properly. This is why adding a coffee-can exhaust gives you less power and more noise.
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What kind of sick porn have you been watching?
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Let's not be too hasty here... we all remember that tragic day over a decade ago when NASA's Straw Shuttle [theonion.com] project ended in catastrophe. We must introduce these organic technologies very carefully when dealing with such explosive substances.
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Use it with a quasiturbine (google it!), and the 500PSI head becomes an additional form of energy. Use a quasiturbine in detonation mode, and you get an engine efficiency which is close enough to Carnot to kiss him on the lips, in a nice light package producing higher-than-ICE torque.
Unfortunately, the guy who's got the patent on the things hasn't finished prototyping a combustion model yet. This is really annoyin
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Fine, until... (Score:3, Funny)
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My only regret is that I wasn't able to crank the engine over why they were still gnawin'... ain't nothing like the smell of flash-fried rat.
Supply? (Score:5, Interesting)
Do we even have enough natural gas for this to work? I thought it was expected to run low about the time petroleum was.
Re:Supply? (Score:5, Insightful)
If these can be seperated you get so many benefits. Pollution/odour abatement, organic fertilizer, auto fuel, green house gas emission reduction, etc etc. Last time I actually did the calculation I came up with six cows can keep one car running. With a million cow, we are talking about 15% reduction in oil consumption. Since we import 50% of the oil, this would represent 30% reduction in oil imports. Add the pigs and chicken, we can run our cars on their shit instead of importing oil from the middle east. On national security standpoint alone, we should be investing very heavily on recovering fuel from farm waste.
What about people (Score:2)
Re:Supply? (Score:5, Interesting)
Biomass would be a good way to make methane renewable. However, the trick is removing all the impurities, such as carbon dioxide from the raw gas. Right now, that isn't very cost-effective, compared to some natural gas wells. Heck, the United States would have quite a bit more petroleum-derived natural gas for its use if an inexpensive way to remove carbon dioxide were developed (many sources of natural gas are contaminated with varing levels of carbon dioxide, some to the point that they are unusable).
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More abou
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Perhaps you were thinking of this [nist.gov].
One-third of the natural gas reserves in the United States cannot be used because of excessive contamination with nitrogen and/or carbon dioxide. Engelhard Corporation had developed some adsorption system technology to address this. However, at the time the project was conceived in 1999, it was considered too preliminary and too high risk despite its potential benefits to the natural gas market. ATP support enabled the development of this promising technology, and provided the means for Engelhard Corporation to partner with universities possessing the special scientific and engineering expertise needed to bring the adsorption system technology to commercial fruition.
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Don't let it wait another day. Procrastinate now!
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Beyond Thunderdome (Score:2)
it's in the ocean (Score:2)
Methane is a gas created by animals and insects (termites). Currently it mostly escapes into the atmosphere where it damages the ozone layer. As other posters have responded, it can be harvested from pig farms or garbage dumps. Methane and other natural gas hydrates are also found frozen at the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico in massive quantities [sciencenews.org].
Unlike traditional fossil fuels like petroleum, methane can be generated in very short time spans and as a byproduct to other production activities (bacon). The p
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Burning methane produced from shit is a clean energy source. Methane burns EXCEPTIONALLY clean, and it is carbon-neutral. The CO2 to make the plants, w
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In the future, I would probably opt for large nuclear power stations that regenerate their fuel (currently not allowed in US) with everyone driving small electrical vehicles. The vehicles could either be rechargable or standard batteries would be created so they could be swapped (equal for equals). They could either be recharged at home/at work, or have stations along the highw
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1. Natural gas is something that the US has a fair bit of. If we swap our natural gas for Middle East oil, it shifts the balances of power in a way that's very positive for the US, even if it does nothing for greenhouse gas emissions or long-term energy stability.
2. Natural gas may be renewable. It's easier to produce biologically than gasoline is, and perhaps easier than ethanol. There's research to be done there, as well as on other natural sources like methane hydrates.
So it may or may not be
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Natural Gas, being the generally used name for naturally occuring methane trapped in rock strata, is not particularly renewable (and is usually mixed up with smaller amounts of other gaseous alkanes). However, there are many processes, both biological and otherwise, that produce methane in decent quantities. So, yeah, methane is renewable. We're just stuck with partial homonymic terminology that confuses us.
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In fact, even partial adoption over a mere five years would be enough to sink the price of oil dramatically and reduce the free income of the OPEC nations. That would give the US considerably more breathing room in its foreign policy with those nations. It's all about margins: right now the margins are massive and they take in oodles of cash. Drop
Scary (Score:2)
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Last 4th of July, but that did involve alcohol (consumption) and a rifle...
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(I'm a mechanical engineer and, yes, I realize that it pools just like a fluid because it IS a fluid.)
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Had a neighbour in Montana who had a travel trailer with an ammonia-cooled fridge (which tend to leak when they get ancient) and propane heat (which often leaks around the various connectors). One day the two got together and **!BOOM!** Nothing left of the trailer but the frame. Flattened the row of mature pine trees next to it, and the garage (which saved the house)... nothing left of that but matchsticks
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You're probably okay so long as there's no rust on the fridge's coils.
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It could be worse... (Score:2)
oops.
Liquid fuel is worse (Score:2)
In a crash, gasoline will puddle under the vehicle you'd probably be trapped in. A gaseous fuel would dissipate in the air.
It is Now all about COST (Score:2)
Cost of methane.
Cost of storage.
Cost of transportation.
Cost of local distribution & storage.
Cost of the delivery pump & tankage system in the vehicle.
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2. infastructure is already in place, as a lot of furnaces run on natural gas
3. infastructure is already in place, as a lot of furnaces run on natural gas
4. infastructure is already in place, as a lot of furnaces run on natural gas
5. depends on how much this scheme costs.
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The infrastructure is already in place to support the current use. But how much MORE use could that infrastructure withstand before major and costly upgrades? Could the existing system handle a 10% increase? 20%? 30%?
And I know at least here a lot of people are very agitated about a proposed LNG terminal that would be installed off the Oregon coast. And with the recent explosion of an NG line in Washington, people may not be so ex
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Natural gas is great fuel (Score:5, Informative)
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It's still quite a bit of pressure.
P.S. the captcha was "bicycles"
Re:Natural gas is great fuel (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Natural gas is great fuel (Score:4, Interesting)
Adapting a regular gasoline car to natural gas, costs around U$S 700 in Argentina. The equipment pays itself after a year or so.
The economics may be different in the US, though. For example, some year ago, before natural gas was widespread, we used a mixture of regular-gas and ethanol on some parts of the country (no modifications to the engine required, but as with natural gas, a thicker engine oil is needed). The biggest problem was that the fuel hoses and some plastics in the car worn out faster due to the ethanol.
Brazil still has widespread use of ethanol mixed with the gas.
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You are forgetting that natural gas can be replaced by gas made from decomposing organic matter (i.e. trash), which is renewable (although the CO2 emmisions are still there, but it's the same with biodiesel).
Natural gas from trash is nothing more than a novelty; there is no way you're going to fill a significant fraction of the world's energy needs from trash gas.
Adapting a regular gasoline car to natural gas, costs around U$S 700 in Argentina. The equipment pays itself after a year or so.
Apples and oranges. There are less than one million CNG cars in Argentina, compared to about 240 million cars in the US. There's something on the order of 10k km of natural gas pipeline in Argentina, compared to 330k km in the US. And Argentina's population density is such that those 10k km of pipeline cover the population better than the 300k km of
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Or, you use something like biodiesel which wouldn't require millions of kilometers of new natural gas pipelines.
Dreams that involve
oblig (Score:2)
One small change is needed (Score:3, Funny)
Will the new engines come with a grill?
How it's made (Score:4, Informative)
It looks ultra simple to do. This poster references only 120:1 storage ratio, so maybe there have been process changes that have improved storage capacity. Maybe this will also help with fuel cells that run on methane to provide portable electrical power too. I think this could be an exciting development.
For those hand-wringing about eco issues (Score:5, Interesting)
...you're a bunch of alarmist buffoons.
Anything you can do with natural gas from a well can be done with methane. It's very easy to produce. Here's how it works. You've got a pond with a tent over it. The pond is full of beneficial bacteria. "Fresh" water (can be contaminated) and sewage are introduced into the bottom center of the pond. Over time the system is colonized with algae. The algae and other organisms digest the sewage, resulting in lots of algae (a resource itself), fairly clean water, and methane (mostly.) The methane can be captured and the algae can be harvested; the algae can be used to make either alcohol or biodiesel depending on what kind it is - some have more carbohydrates, some have more oil.
Right now, a lot of our sewage treatment systems, even the ones that look like oil refineries, are producing and flaring off methane. This is stupid. It should be captured and used. In fact a lot of agricultural producers of shit, like pig farms, are starting to use this technology to power their farms - and in many cases they actually produce enough power not only to run their operation, but to actually make a profit by selling excess to the grid. The resulting effluent has been "cooked" to the point where it can be applied directly to the crops as fertilizer. Normally this is achieved by storing it in an uncovered holding pond for months, where the methane simply escapes.
If we simply applied this technology to waste treatment plants and forced it on those who have a lot of animal shit currently posing a health hazard, we could get a lot of power and it would actually save money for everyone involved.
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-Eric
Methane from Manure Systems (Score:3, Interesting)
I want a corn cob and pig manure powered Ferrari. :)
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I am curious how much just escapes right out the small holes
on the manhole covers.
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Source, source, source... (Score:2, Informative)
Energon Cubes (Score:2)
Re:Between this and corn-derived ethanol... (Score:5, Funny)
"Oh, my God! My car!"
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Someone's been watching too much Cheech and Chong.
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Doc Brown was an ingenious idiot (Score:2)
"But Doc, what about Mr. Fusion?"
"Mr. Fusion powers the flight circuitry and the Flux Capacitor but the internal combustion engine runs on ordinary gasoline. It always did."
While Doc was having the car converted for flight, he could have chucked the combustion engine and replaced it with a motor/generator. Mr. Fusion could have then powered all systems in the car. For that matter, a bigass elec
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I live in a town of about 15,000 and we have 5 stations with e-85. Out of about 12-15 total This is minnesota though, and its pushed like crazy by the polititians.
I've tried the stuff, and I broke even between the price/mileage drop. Its definitly less per gallon, but at only 2/3 the MPG and 2/3 the acceleration power, I'll take gasoline. Gas costs within $.015/mile of e-85 here, and the performance drop makes my car a s
Re:Infrastrucutre in place? (Score:5, Informative)
If you knew that you where only going to run ethanol you could run a much higher compression ratio in the engine and or much more spark advance. That would give you mileage and performance much closer to gasoline.
You can actually make more power running alcohol than gasoline that is why they use in at Indy and for dragsters. Top alcohol dragsters are faster than gas powered cars. Now Top fuel uses alcohol because it mixes better with nitro.
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FlexFuel... Non-Optimal... (Score:2)
Logically they'd have to be. Set the compression low enough for standard dino-gas and you burn ethanol inefficiently. Set the compression more for alcohol and you cause detonation, which will damage the engine. Which situation is worse? Thus - they tune it rather heavily to gasoline. Still, Josquint might have something wrong or poorly designed in his vehicle, as every review I've heard of has lower milage with E85
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Advancing the spark relative to the piston stroke. Generally, if you start the burn earlier, the hot gasses will push the piston through a larger fraction of the power stroke, and you get more power and economy. However, too much spark advance for a given octane rating can cause detonation (pinging).
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which is why i think that current flex-fuel vehicles are not a particularly optimal idea.
ethanol has quite different characteristics to normal gas, the main thing being it has a much higher octane. getting the most out of this would require higher compression, forced induction, etc., but since these cars also need to be able to run on straight gas, you can't do that and thus performance goes in the crapper.
ideally, some
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And to answer the E-85 question, the fueling stations are still pretty sparse, but there are two regular gas stations in the Portland, OR area that carry it now. One of them is on my way home...if I had a compatable vehicle I would be fueling up there sometime
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Well, it's like this. Five or ten decades from now, gasoline from the ground is probably going to be a scarce and expensive resource. It may well be easier to make methane from bio
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A reasonable concern. But y'know what? Crops can be grown without fertilizer. The yield is substantially lower, but modern crop varieties are much more productive than those in use a century ago. And quite a lot of land that was under cultivation in say 1850 has returned to wilderness -- at least in North America. So maybe we'll muddle through. Or maybe we won't. It's