David Pogue Takes On the Zune 99
necro81 writes "The NYTimes' widely read technology columnist, David Pogue, has devoted his weekly product review to Microsoft's Zune. He does an even-handed job of describing what Zune has over the iPod, as well as some product-related letdowns." From the article: "Competition is good and all. But what, exactly, is the point of the Zune? It seems like an awful lot of duplication — in a bigger, heavier form with fewer features — just to indulge Microsoft's 'we want some o' that' envy. Wireless sharing is the one big new idea — and if the public seems to respond, Apple could always add that to the iPod."
Not only is it not a better product.... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
A bit of bias in the story (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:1)
David Pogue is currently working on a Vista book. He posted about it in his blog only a month ago:
http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2006/10/20/blogging -from-microsoft/ [nytimes.com]
Oh, and he's written plenty of Windows books too: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw/102-3339995-6 640159?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=david +pogue [amazon.com]
There appears to be a bit of bias in your post.
When you leave out half o
Yeah? (Score:1)
Yeah? How quickly? At what increase in price (or decrease in profits)?
And oh, by the way, your shiny new iPod is now obsolete. Wanna buy a new one?
I'll bet this has Apple salivating already. Might even cause them to overlook the deal MS cut with UMG to pay royalty rights regardless of how the Zune is used for "stolen" music that might be loaded by some users.
Microsoft can't help it... (Score:5, Funny)
What's the damn point anyway? (Score:5, Interesting)
I mean, aren't all the other money losing projects (hello Zune and Xbox) just financed by Office and OS anyway?
Seems like a waste of time and resources to me.
Re: (Score:1)
re: Not only is it not a better product.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Or Dollars and Cents cheaper!
Re: Not Only is it not a better product... (Score:5, Interesting)
This is probably why the multi-page Zune ad in the most recent issue of Rolling Stone makes absolutely no mention whatsoever of Microsoft.
How sad is it when you have to run away from your own established brand to try to sell something?
Re: (Score:1)
growth (Score:4, Funny)
Because of greedy shareholders. It's not enough for them to receive a nice dividend, they demand growth. Oh, and also it's contrary to Borg prinicples.
coolness factor (Score:3, Insightful)
I won't switch (Score:5, Interesting)
I had no intention of switching, but the review solidified things. I wouldn't have recommended the product to anyone (I'd say just get an iPod) and this only makes things worse.
Let's see what they've got to entice me away? I've got a large collection of music, but basically no DRMed AAC files so I would make an easy switch.
Let's face it, it's pathetic if they think they are going ANYWHERE with this. As for the "We're selling it in 3x as many stores"... who cares? Everyone who matters sells iPods. Target, Wal*Mart, CompUSA, Apple, Microcenter, Frys, Best Buy, Circuit City, Sears, Borders Books, and more. There are some I can't check (because I don't live near them) but I bet Meijers sells iPods. I've seen them in some odd places. They are everywhere. I think even those scam-on-poor-people places like Rent-A-Center probably sell 'em. They'll be more places for the Zune though? Let's see... who else would be a good partner for selling the Zune...
JoAnne Fabrics? PetsMart? I know I'm looking for an MP3 player that's not an iPod when I go into my local paint-ball gun store, but maybe that's just me.
No, wait, I don't go to paint-ball gun stores for consumer electronics.
About the only place I can think of is Radio Shack. I don't know if they sell iPods now but they are going down the tubes fast any way.
What stores will carry Zunes... (Score:2)
About the only place I can think of is Radio Shack. I don't know if they sell iPods now but they are going down the tubes fast any way. (#16788483 [slashdot.org])
Radio Shack was bought out by Circuit City here in Canada a while back, and all the old stores are now "The Source by Circuit City." I believe that Radio Shack is now trying to get back into the Canadian market, but I haven't actually seen one of the stores yet.
And yes, Radio Shack does sell iPods [radioshack.com]. So does The Source [thesourcecc.com].
At any r
Microsoft has no advantages here (Score:5, Insightful)
But they are going to have problems with the Zune like they had with the Xbox. In the videogame market, they face a very rich opponent (Sony) and haven't been able to dominate because of that. They have their fair market share, but they bled enough money for that.
Now in the mp3 player market, they face a strong entrenched opponent Apple, who is rich enough and has the incentive to throw money/R&D at iPods as well. Apple also enjoys a very dominant position on top, similiar to MS in the OS market. It's not as stable because the lock-in isn't as bad, but it also means any features MS incorporates that are very good, short of killer, Apple can incorporate the same the next generation.
And I don't see any killer features on the Zune. Maybe next time, though I doubt it. Currently, MS is going to be in the 2ndary mp3 market I think, meaning it will have to split marketshare with players other than ipod. I mean, if I wanted an mp3 player other than iPod, I'd look to iRiver first. They incorporate the features I want (ogg, etcetera) at a lower price.
DRM (Score:2)
Can't be used as an external hard drive ... ?! (Score:5, Insightful)
- 12 gigs music.
- 12 gigs movies and vPodCasts.
- 10 gigs data, for just three files.
iPod
Not being able to use the zune as a drive is the ultimate breakdown for me.
Figure: if they couldn't even get that one itsy bitsy featurette right
Zune points scam (Score:5, Informative)
it all seems so deliberately complicated and multi-tiered like all of MS products. That can be a good bussiness strategy but it's not a user-freindly strategy. I predict people will prefer their music priced in way they can figure and don't have to work the angles to get the best prices.
See GSM or ADLS provider prices (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
In all fairness, Apple iTunes gift cards have many of these same problems. Values are multiples of $1 (as opposed to $.99), Apple keeps the interest, they can offer different prices to different groups, etc.
The big advantages, however, are that the customer is not required to use gift cards with iTMS and that a gift card is a simple, familiar approach with few gotchas and no conversion rate issues for those of use with US$.
Of course, that has always been the iPod way.... simple and familiar ... even if
RE:What's the damn point anyway? (Score:1)
I think it is because Microsoft is trying to make money. The portable music business is worth millions upon millions. Same goes for the video game industry. Furthermore, the big companies in those industries can increase their market share in different industries because of the brand association that they get from their product (iPod, PS2, etc). Look at how many people argue that iPods have caused a surge in Mac sales. If Microsoft can take significant marketshare from Apple's iPo
I May Be Too Old To Understand, But... (Score:2, Insightful)
Me thinks thou dost protest too much... (Score:4, Insightful)
His disdain for Microsoft's digital music business model is obvious and, arguably, well deserved.
Every journalist has bias, just as every person has bias. But it seems to me Pogue was expressing real and serious flaws in the Zune and Microsoft's DRM model rather than simply going on a partisan Mac vs. Windows rant.
-S
What's the damn point anyway? (Score:2)
Well, not only making money, but they are a public entity, and as such, they have the OBLIGATION for their shareholders to make money and grow. They have the opportunity, they will knock at all doors to make money. Even if they lose some in the process, the shareholders prefer a company that tries many things than one that will simply fade into oblivion because they couldn't diversify.
Examples, Sco, that got good share prices long
wondering (Score:1)
Read Walter Mossberg's review (Score:5, Informative)
Better in that he actually tested the Zune, measured its battery life (and found it to be 14% shorter than claimed), tested its WiFi sharing (and found it to not work as well as advertized), and actually used it.
The review is not all negative, and is worth reading.
Re: Microsoft can't help it... (Score:3, Interesting)
[ Parent [slashdot.org] ]
Re: (Score:1)
The article goes on to say t
does that guy read slashdot? (Score:1, Flamebait)
It would have been better if he made a shit-brown joke instead of closing with the question of if 'brown is the new white'.
Buying a $.99 song costs $5.00 (Score:5, Insightful)
What a dumb move. Each Zune review I've read so far has been down on the player, but more importantly on Microsoft's "treat users like idiots" approach.
David Pogue - http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/09/technology/09po
David Ewalt - http://blogs.forbes.com/digitaldownload/ [forbes.com]
Walt Mossberg - http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB1163028483
Re: (Score:1)
Wifi?! Bah! (Score:4, Interesting)
Well maybe some effort... I'm not sure how your itunes-DRMed AAC file will play on your cellphone. Fortunately I don't have any of those to worry about.
"Review"? (Score:1)
Re: I won't switch (Score:3, Interesting)
The Meijers near my house sells them. I once bought one out of a vending machine at an airport in Atlanta, because I was about to fly out to the boonies and was getting nervous about whether I would have enough storage space for photos.
Which brings me to the main reason I won't switch: I always carry a couple of iPods when I'm shooting long assignments so I can use them to store photos. Clamp on a readily available CF card reader and they make excellent portable hard drives that just happen to play music. If a Zune won't work as a generic HD or keep up with iPod's HD size I can't use it.
The coolness factor is also useful in my position, iPods are recognized by the most unlikely people in the most unlikely places and can get you out of difficult situations. Like when the KLA though I was on the wrong side and wanted to detain me. Lets see a Zune do that.
I'd rather buy.... (Score:1)
Honestly, I'd rather buy a RocBox [playerblog.com] which was probably the most illconceived product ever -- and blatant atempt to "cash in" on the iPods success just like the Zune.
Microsoft didn't bother trying to put sprinkles on a turd, they just released the turd directly to the public!
Re: Pod connector in cars? (Score:5, Informative)
Sure they do.
My car (truck actually) has a connector and I can control my iPod from my steering wheel, something that can't be via with an audio input jack. There are also several aftermarket solutions that work over CAN-BUS and the like, that allow control of the player via factory radio, as an AUX device.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: iPod Connectors in Cars (Score:5, Informative)
Are you kidding? Most cars that advertise "iPod" connectivity do, in fact have a dock connector and integrated head unit that can used to control the iPod, display track names, and recharge the unit while it is sequestered in a cooled glovebox (preserving the battery's long-term life) or armrest.
It's not like this is a new thing...http://www.apple.com/ipod/carintegration.
Never a Nano Zune? (Score:1)
Pogue's Podcast on the Zune is much better.... (Score:5, Interesting)
http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa
You have entered an uncatalogued filing cabnet (Score:4, Funny)
This is why clothes you buy from walmart do not say "walmart brand" on them. They come up with cute little brands.
Re:What's the damn point anyway? (Score:1)
no hard drive? (Score:2)
Re:A bit of bias in the story (Score:1, Troll)
What's so hard to "get" about a KNOB? (Score:5, Interesting)
What is it that's so hard to "get" about a frickin' _knob?_
There are just some situations where a button doesn't hack it. No matter how many cents it saves in manufacturing costs.
The original-equipment radio on my last car had a rotating knob as a volume control. I didn't think anything of it until I replaced it with an aftermarket radio that didn't. Like the Zune, it, too, had an oh-so-clever sounds-good-on-paper kludge: if you pressed the + button it would increment in steps of 4 units, and if you then pressed the - button within a short time interval it would decrement in steps of 1 unit. On paper, I would never have believed what a misery this substitute for a volume control knob would be. I don't think I ever realized just how often I reach to make a microadjustment in volume (different levels of traffic noise, different stations, different tracks in a classical album). Not only was the system clumsy, but of course one button feels just like another button... unless you spend some money on making them feel different.
In the 1960s I remember a little paper tape program in the bin above the PDP-1 at MIT labelled "Minsky Knob." It looked promising, because Marvin Minsky was the author of a nice little display hack called Minskytron, which... well, never mind. "Minsky Knob" was his attempt to get knob-like control using only keyboard keys. I believe striking one key caused a spot of light on the CRT to accelerate uniformly to the right, and a second press would stop it dead, while alternative presses of another key would accelerate it to uniformly to the left and stop it dead.
When the right tool for the job is knob, nobody's ever found a way to do it with a button. Minsky Knob was all but unusable in the 1960s. He couldn't figure it out then, and nobody else has been able to figure it out since.
Easy to fix (Score:2)
Fair assessment (Score:2)
Re:Not only is it not a better product.... (Score:3, Interesting)
This summer, I bought a friend whom I charitably describe as "not a computer genius" a white 1 GB Nano for her birthday, and she was soon ripping CDs with iTunes and downloading songs from the Apple store without my help. She's really proud of it and showed it to all her friends - probably the first piece of computer related tech she owned that didn't make her feel stupid and out-of-it.
By the way, I'm not one of those Apple fanboys and don't even own a separate mp3 player, a 2 GB SD card in my cellphone does it for me. No need to lug around yet another gadget, nursing its battery and keeping it from getting broken or stolen.
Re:Not only is it not a better product.... (Score:1)
Irony defined in OneRunOnWord (Score:2)
Zune Meme Says "Nobody Cares" (Score:1)
http://www.realmeme.com/roller/page/realmeme?entr
You gotta wonder (Score:1, Troll)
Every time I walk into EB Games or Gamestop I'm assulted by a pimply-faced teenager pushing the damned Zune on me. I've been insluted to my face because I have an iPod.
One of these kids claimed his boss "was just talking to Peter Moore the other day and he said Peter said that they were making the wi-fi work for downloads." After staring at him and realizing he had convinced himself that this was true, I had to laugh in his face. (I did confirm with his boss lat
Who wrote the Zune Web site text?? (Score:4, Interesting)
you gotta love the cool talk complete with a foot note to remind you about the DRM on the sharing
Paintball and Zune (Score:2)
I know I'm looking for an MP3 player that's not an iPod when I go into my local paint-ball gun store, but maybe that's just me.
Target practice? :-D
Bluetooth (Score:2)
In Mother Russia (Score:1)
TFA is a fine little troll. (Score:1, Flamebait)
Its an excellent player he says - oh except for the colors (black and white just
Bias (Score:2)
Let's get this straight.. (Score:3, Insightful)
"You're connected to your best friend and send the new song your band recorded in the garage last weekend. Another friend gets the hilarious podcast your kid brother made at school, plus that song you just downloaded from the Zune Marketplace and can't get out of your head. And hey, lookee here, your friend wants to send you something that you might like and buy, too.
Best of all, the song you sent isn't just a 30-second preview --it's the whole song! Your friend can sample the song up to three times in three days, flag it on their device and then, if they like it, they can buy it later from Zune Marketplace. It's all connected."
http://www.zune.net/en-us/meetzune/zunetozuneshar
So: if I want to listen to the "hillarious podcast that my KID BROTHER made at SCHOOL" a couple times, I have to "BUY" it from MICROSOFT??
Enough said.
Re:What's the damn point anyway? (Score:1)
Re:I won't switch (Score:1)
Despite what everyone says I don't see how the scroll-wheel on the iPod is anything special. I use a Zen Vision:M and can jump to any song I want within seconds with it's vertical touch pad.
And this is more of a personal problem, but I'm unable to to use iPods with my right hand because I have funky joints which don't work with the scro
Re:Never a Nano Zune? (Score:1)
Apples and Oranges (Score:1)
What few seem to realize is that the Zune is not aimed at the iPod market. The iPod is aimed at the self-absorbed cool kids who either have a Mac or would like to. The Zune is aimed at a more social demo.
The signal event to highlight the difference was Steve Jobs crowning himself King of the Geeks when he dismissed the Zune sharing feature because it wouldn't help you pick up a girl. iPod owners everywhere agreed.
Note that Zune advertising is about Zune sharing. The Zune isn't a media machine with sharing
Re: (Score:1)
Re:Yeah? (Score:1)
Huh? I have one of the original iPods. In what way has it become obsolete with the introduction of others? Hmmm?
Re:Microsoft has no advantages here (Score:2)
That said, the Xbox (and the 360) didn't get
Why zune? (Score:2)
Clearly, Gates is not necessarily interested in income based on the digital music sold, not any more than he's interested in the XBOX-360. He's interested in market share (rather market control) of the content.
Sit back, close your eyes, and think about it for a few minut
Lame article by Pogue (Score:2)
Of course it might not cost less for long....
Interesting (Score:2)
2-way bias, though (Score:1)
Well, except that David Pogue (that's me) has also written "Windows Me: The Missing Manual," four editions of "Windows XP: The Missing Manual," and "Windows Vista: The Missing Manual."
And I've published, or will be publishing, Missing Manuals on Frontpage, Microsoft Access, Photoshop Elements (for Windows), Digital Photogra
Re:Lame article by Pogue (Score:2, Insightful)
Dude, the Zune costs exactly the same as the 30 GB iPod.
And if you call missing Zune features like a graphic equalizer, audio books, TV shows, videos, and podcasts "pseudo missing features"... well, I'd guess you're in the minority, bro.
Re:Lame article by Pogue (Score:2)
Basically your article seemed to be: "Wireless. Same space as an iPod. Lame."
As for my comment: yeah, I realized (yes yes, just after pressing "submit") that I was totally wrong on the price
Um... (Score:2)
In my unscientific poll, you are an idiot Gumby.
The Most Amazing Thing About Zune (Score:1)
(You may recall that PC wore a brown suit in at least one of the Mac-PC ads. Which were full of brilliant little touches.)
What sort of person sets out to buy a BROWN iPod-sort of thing. A rhetorical question, thanks anyway.