New MacBook Dual Core 2 Benchmarks

ApolloX writes "New Macbook Pro Benchmarks are now available. From the article: 'Like the iMac before it, Apple's MacBook Pro underwent an upgrade highlighted by a chip swap — the Core Duo processor that used to power Apple's pro laptop is gone, replaced by the next-generation Core 2 Duo. And as with our iMac benchmarks, these updated Core 2 Duo MacBook Pro models show a modest performance gain when compared to older systems running on Core Duo chips with the same clock speeds.' As expected, the new 15-inch Intel Dual Core 2 (2.33Ghz/2GB RAM) is the new king of Apple portables, with results for the 17-inch model still pending."

New "MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo" Benchmarks

[voidptr]

What's with the headline? It's "MacBook Pro", not MacBook. They're separate products. And it's "Core 2 Duo". Would it have been that hard to identify the correct product being reviewed?

Re:

[quigonn]

Would it have been that hard to identify the correct product being reviewed?

You must be new here. :-)

Re:

[gumbi west]

This is sort of a problem for Apple. the iBook / Powerbook had good name separation, "MacBook" and "MacBook Pro" were bad choices b/c everybody adds "pro" to everything these days to mean absolutely nothing. So you'd think you could drop it.

As far as the no proofing, it's supposed to be part of the charm of the site. I think it's like how people like soaps to look cheap and for the sets to fall over sometimes.

Re:

[Overly Critical Guy]

Separating the names of the two products hasn't been a problem for users. Apparently, only Slashdot editors are the ones who get confused.

Re:

[rthille]

I like the 'Apple ProBook' and 'Apple MacBook' myself, but 'ProBook' doesn't have enough Apple/Mac identifiability by itself.

Re:

[RAMMS+EIN]

``Would it have been that hard to identify the correct product being reviewed?''

Well, Apple's and Intel's naming makes it particularly easy to make these mistakes. Not saying that the submitter/editors shouldn't have gotten it right, of course.

Re:

[chasingporsches]

and it's not Dual Core 2, its Core 2 Duo... that makes it sound like it's two Core 2 Duo chips.

Re:

[voidptr]

No, what I'm saying is they reviewed the MPB C2D, not a MacBook that doesn't exist. The headline's just wrong.

Re:

[Ziwcam]

As opposed to XPS 700, XPS 410, XPS 210, d4650y, m7690y, m7690e, V6000Z? Right...

Temperature

[tpengster]

I'm more interested in how hot these things run.. my old Core Duo MBP runs so hot I can't even use it on my lap, and the fan emits a really annoying loud, high-pitched whine. This computer is actually physically painful to use.

Re:

[Sancho]

I've been reading that the new MBPs with C2D run up to 20 degrees F cooler. I can't speak for whether it's the processor or a change to the default fan speed that causes this.

Re:

[Savage-Rabbit]

I'm more interested in how hot these things run.. my old Core Duo MBP runs so hot I can't even use it on my lap, and the fan emits a really annoying loud, high-pitched whine. This computer is actually physically painful to use.

Take it back to the shop and have the motherboard replaced. Since I had this done to my MBP it runs noticably cooler.

Re:

[God'sDuck]

amen to that -- the high-pitched whine wasn't a fan, it was a faulty power converter. they replaced ours no-questions asked.

It's a Feature, Not a Bug

[Greyfox]

Who DOESN'T like a weenie roast?

Re:Temperature

[tji]

I didn't have a first-gen MBP, but I just bought the new Core 2 Duo version, the base system with 2.16GHz CPUs.

I have no heat issues with this machine. The bottom of it is warm to the touch, but certainly not hot to the point of being uncomfortable. I find that it runs cooler than my PowerBook G4 1.67GHz.

Re:

[rolfwind]

12 hours battery runtime on a G4?

The best my 1 year old G4 gets is 2.5-3.5 hours depending if I have the screen reasonably dimmed.

Re:

[tji]

Actually, you're wrong on both counts. The PowerBook does have fans, although they are slow or even stopped until you put the system under load and it heats up. When it was new, the battery life on the G4 was around 2.5 hours. Now, with an aged battery, it's nowhere near that. The MBP's battery life seems good, compared to the weak battery in my PowerBook. With new batteries in the PB, they would probably be pretty close.

I always liked the PowerPC processors, and the architecture without all the bag

Re:

[wavedeform]

I was worried about that, too. I just upgraded from a 1GHz PowerBook G4 to a 2.33 GHz MacBook Pro. The MBP doesn't seem to tun hotter than my G4 when used for general email/web surfing, at least. I haven't used it much for media creation and editing yet.

Re:

[Mr_Matt]

You might be one of the lucky ones whose MBPs had too much thermal grease applied to the processor heat sink. Apple put the fan temperature sensors on the heat pipes leading from the processor - the excess in thermal grease actually insulates the heat pipes, keeping the fans off and the processor way too hot.

There's a couple of sites that demonstrate how to disassemble your MBP to get to the processor - reapply an appropriate amount of thermal paste, your heat pipes start working properly (and your fan sta

Re:

[0racle]

You mean the Thermal Paste issue that is actually non-existant? [arstechnica.com] Is that the issue you're talking about?

Re:

[Mr_Matt]

Other [macrumors.com] people [engadget.com] tried it and got different results. Of course, some [oreillynet.com] people found mixed results. I guess you could, I don't know, try it and see if it helps?

Haven't read a single report where replacing the thermal paste didn't lower the temperature - only some (including your link) where the temperature didn't drop by much.

Re:

[SilentChris]

Initial reports from people who've bought them say they run pretty cool. They extended the vent at the back to the length of the chassis and apparently the fans run longer and harder. It's not the coldest laptop in the world, but you can't cook food with it like you could the last version.

Not hot at all

[beefstu01]

I just got my 2.33 GHz MacBook Pro, no problems whatsoever. The fans are quiet, but very efficient, I guess. I've watched a few movies while crunching some numbers in the background, giving the processor a run for its money, and the bottom has never reached the point where I had to move the computer off of my lap.

Re:

[Matey-O]

get smcFanControl. It made my mbp cucumber coooooool.

Re:

[pavera]

As others have said, no heat issues here...
2.33ghz 1 week old, runs significantly cooler than my dell 1.67 pentium M that this laptop replaced. I never had a Core 1, but this laptop runs cooler than my old dell, cooler than my wifes ibook g4, cooler than my brother's powerbook g4... it is the coolest running laptop I've used in 3-4 years.

As other's have stated as well, the bottom gets warm to the touch, but not hot, never uncomfortable on the lap or legs.
Also, no noticeable fan noise at all. It runs virtu

Re:

[yabos]

Well mine which I'm typing on right now runs at ~50C or ~120F and I'm not doing anything but web surfing. It's also sitting on my glass top desk with adequate ventilation space underneath. That seems to make a big difference. I was using it on my bed and it got much hotter.

Re:

[eh2o]

Its both quieter and cooler than any other computer I've ever seen (not including that insane Zalman thing). No whine. Fans kick in if I launch a big compile but even then still less noisy than my 2x2G G5 powermac. Not to mention faster. :)

15" C2D 2.33G, 3G RAM, 160G HD.

Re:

[@madeus]

I think it was back in July Apple acknowledged this. As others have said it is, I am led to believe, usually not the fan (although it sounds like it is) but related to the motherboard, with possibly more than one specific cause - it was reported here, in case you missed it [slashdot.org]. Manufacturing problems might account for the overheating [engadget.com] too, they seem to have had more than one issue with the first batch (I remember having a few problems with my first PowerBook G4).

What doesn't seem to have been mentioned yet is th

Re:

[Bob-o-Matic!]

I am comfortably using my first mac (switcher here :) on my lap. It is a 2.33 GHz C2D, 3GB, 160GB hdd, etc MBP. I saved a ton of dough by using the student ADC membership.

I wanted to see just how hot it might get, so I ran 3dmark 2006 in windows. It didn't get so hot that I would complain. I ran the benchmark on the laptop monitor and the Intel thermal analysis tool was visible on a second monitor. The CPU temp peaked at about 60C during the benchmark. I figure that is about the most my system would g

Re:

[Soong]

I have a new MBP 2.33 GHz 15". So far it runs at its hottest running WoW, but even then I can comfortably have it on my lap.

This is only true if it has been on my lap the whole time. A desk doesn't cool as well. Lots of heat gets trapped on the bottom and it will then get uncomfortably hot. It cools down pretty quickly though. The fans spin down in about a minute after the big load stops.

Re:

[Jeff DeMaagd]

Take the unit in for repairs on the whine. Some people's problems are issues with an inverter.

For the heat, use smcFanControl and step it up to 1500, if that's not cool enough, 2000 RPM. With that, mine is a lot nicer, barely warm to the touch. Mine is now cool and still very quiet, the fans are barely audible to me.

Yay! Now who would have thought this?

[the_humeister]

Faster chip brings faster performance!

What was benchmarked?

[laffer1]

I was excited to see the headline. I look at the site and its just comparing several models to a baseline previous MacBook Pro. What is the point in that? I want to see real benchmarks like perhaps windows running on it vs a comparable "PC" laptop from say dell, toshiba or some other vendor. I'd also like to see a benchmark compared to desktop models like iMacs, Mac Pros, etc. To put it in perspective, maybe some benchmarks from G4/G5 models as well.

I want to know how apple compares to other vendors now that apples to apples comparisons are more fair. You could argue driver support if the mac loses, but its not like dell ships great drivers for their modified chipsets either. I have an iBook now and it would be nice to know how PC operating systems run on this thing. I now have a good reason to want to run BSD on one of these :)

Re:

[Professor_UNIX]

I want to see real benchmarks like perhaps windows running on it vs a comparable "PC" laptop from say dell, toshiba or some other vendor.

The MacBook Pro is a Mac, not a PC. Why would anyone compare it to a Dell or Toshiba that runs Winblows? I buy a Mac to run MacOS X and couldn't care less about hacking it to work with Windows so I can run PC viruses and spyware.

Re:

[Henry V .009]

I buy a computer to run programs. The operating system, Windows, Linux, BSD, or whatever, doesn't make a great deal of difference to me. My programs run, and that's all that matters. I've never gotten a virus on a Windows machine -- helps not to be a moron if you want to avoid that -- in fact, since XP, I've considered it a very decent OS. Windows installs don't break nearly as often as Ubuntu installs for me. (They haven't quite got the hang of testing their automatic updates yet.) But all in all, I find m

two button mice for Macs

[falconwolf]

Macs only have one mouse button, a PC would have two or more. MacOS X doesn't run (legally) on any machine but a Mac. So there! *stomps off to his room*

There are two button mice for Macs, even Apple's Mighty Mouse is a two button mouse. As there aren't buttons on top it doesn't seem to be a two button mouse but it is. And I've got a two button mouse for my almost 10 year old Mac.

Falcon

One button on laptop

[AlpineR]

Macs only have one mouse button, a PC would have two or more.

This is a rare instance where that statement is neither troll nor ignorance. We're talking about laptops, so the fact that the trackpad has only one button is a real difference between a MacBook Pro and a similar PC laptop. Sure, you can plug in a two button mouse. But if you're buying hardware to run a non-OS X operating system, then the lack of a built-in second button would be considered a serious defect.

Re:

[falconwolf]

This is a rare instance where that statement is neither troll nor ignorance. We're talking about laptops, so the fact that the trackpad has only one button is a real difference between a MacBook Pro and a similar PC laptop. Sure, you can plug in a two button mouse. But if you're buying hardware to run a non-OS X operating system, then the lack of a built-in second button would be considered a serious defect.

Admittedly I hadn't thought about the trackpad but even when I had a PC laptop, from Gateway, I di

Re:

[Durandal64]

I'm amazed that people don't know about the second virtual button on Apple's laptops with OS X. Hold both fingers on the track pad. Click. Boom, right-click. And to be honest, I think that it works better than actually having a second button. My thumb isn't very accurate, so sometimes, on a PC laptop, I hit the wrong button. With one, big button to hit, I never mistakenly right-click when I want to left-click. The second physical button works well on mice because you click right- and left-buttons with diffe

Re:

[Onan]

I want to see real benchmarks like perhaps windows...

While it's fascinating that you consider the only "real" benchmarks to be ones involving Windows, that's a fairly outre view.

Certainly it's unjustified of you to assume that there's no "point" to non-Windows benchmarks; a whole damn lot of people out there don't use Windows, and have no interest in ever doing so. Given that there's a large overlap between those people and potential macbook buyers, I'd say that Windows benchmarks would be the ones

Re:

[laffer1]

No, many people need to use windows professionally regardless of what there personal environment is. I dual boot Windows XP and MidnightBSD on my desktop. I use windows for gaming. Having a Mac that could run all three would be great on the road. I could develop and use MidnightBSD, boot into OS X if I want to watch iTunes content or do website design and run games and do .NET development in windows.

I'm actually more curious how Linux and BSD run but I don't think a mainstream site would publish such de

This was more than just a chip swap.

[SeaFox]

From the article: 'Like the iMac before it, Apple's MacBook Pro underwent an upgrade highlighted by a chip swap -- the Core Duo processor that used to power Apple's pro laptop is gone, replaced by the next-generation Core 2 Duo.

It also gained dual-layer Superdrives and Firewire 800 back, and comes with more RAM standard and higher maximum RAM than the previous model, which is more than you can say for the iMac upgrade.

Battery Life

[RAMMS+EIN]

Anybody know what sort of battery life to expect out of these machines? I love how my iBook gets over 5 hours of use from one battery charge, but I think the MacBook and MacBook Pro don't do that well. However, the Core 2 is supposed to be more efficient than the Core. So, perhaps the battery life on these new machines can impress me?

Re:

[RAMMS+EIN]

``Anybody know what sort of battery life to expect out of these machines?'' ...and the answer, according to the MacBook Pro specs from Apple [apple.com], is up to 5 hours for the 15" model, and 5.5 hours for the 17" model.

Re:

[kalidasa]

Never, ever trust published battery ratings.

My MacBook (not a MacBook Pro) gets a little under 4 hours or so on each charge, depending upon how hard I push it. On the other hand, I *never* got 5 hours out of my old iBook. The iBook would stay charged in sleep mode for a week, the MacBook, for two or three days. I'd say slightly less battery time than the iBook (G3), but better than the average laptop.

Re:

[CrackedButter]

When my old iBook was new, I could get 5.5 hours out of it. It was a G4 1Ghz. Of course I had to take everything down to its minimum, no airport, slow CPU, dim the screen and so forth. But its hardly practical anyway is it? Now I have a G4 12"PB with a space battery and don't limit myself like that. Now I have 7 hours of battery life.

Re:

[yabos]

I get about 3-4 hrs, definately not the 5 hrs Apple says.

Re:

[tsa]

Me too.

I bought one, and it's worth the price

[SystemFault]

I picked up a 2.33 GHz MBP (US$2500) a couple of days ago and it meets my expectations. No problems with noise or heat issues, and the build quality and design is much better than the offerings back in 2002 when I bought an iBook 700 MHz G3 and a PB 800 MHz G4. The magnetic power connector by itself is a big improvement.

The included printed documentation is rather lacking for a notebook in this price range. Additionally, there in no recordable CD or DVD included. And as noted before, there is no modem e

MBP

[falconwolf]

there in no recordable CD or DVD included.

If you mean no media how many manufacturers include media? As for whether the drives are recordable according the MBP page [apple.com] it has a 6x double-layer-burning SuperDrive so it does record. If it doesn't record then Apple is guilty of false advertizing.

Falcon

Re:

[falconwolf]

My meaning is that there is no free recordable disc of either type. In earlier (ca. 2002 at least) Apple notebook models that had optical recording capability, a free CD-R or DVD-R disc was included in the retail package.

Again I don't under stand what you mean, if you mean the media how many PC manufacturers give away free disks? Aside from the "free" you have "CD-R or DVD-R", so it seems that maybe you mean what format the drive is. If so it has a SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW) [apple.com]. DVD +RW, DVD -RW, an

Stupid Headline

[Nom du Keyboard]

New MacBook Dual Core 2 Benchmarks

This headline does more than suggest, it actually states, that the system under benchmark has two Core 2 processors. That would be a total of four processing cores spread over two chips, and quite a burden on the poor system's batteries.

WRONG! What it has is a Core 2 Duo dual-processor chip.

It's bad enough the the submitter can't properly write the headline. That the Slashdot editor let it through in this form deserves having him (or her) sent back to Remedial English, and not allowed near a keyboard until they pass it.

Re:

[askegg]

Gee - Who would have thought Intel's naming scheme that uses both words "duo" and "2" would cause confusion (what a bone-headed marketing decision that was).

I have one. It rocks.

[Soong]

Someone asked about temperature. At its hottest I can still have it on my lap (wearing pants, dunno if it's cool enough to Quake nekkid or anytihng). Most of the time it runs cool. It's fast and snappy. It rules.

Most annoying part is that I had to recompile all the open source things I'd built for my previous ppc machine. Apparently the emulator doesn't work for command line things.

4gb of ram?

[Maskirovka]

They allow you to install a 1gb and a 2gb stick, but why can't you install 2x 2gb for 4gb???

Re:

[smallstepforman]

It is a northbridge chipset limitation. 3Gb is the maximum you can use, even if you plug in 4 Gb.

Re:4gb of ram?

[MBCook]

The chipset is only capable of addressing 32 bits or 4 gigs of memory. Many "64 bit" desktops are the same way. The problem is that while the chipset can see the full 4 gigs of ram, a portion of it (~768mb) is hidden by other address space (video card shadowing, PCI memory addresses, etc). The machine can hold 4 gigs of ram, you just won't be able to see it all. I have a friend with a Dell desktop with the same "problem".

Frankly I like Apple approach as opposed to what many others do ("Supprots 4+ GIGs* (* unable to see top 1/2 gig)").

The problem should go away when they stop using the current chipset (which was designed for the 32 bit Core) and move to the next chipset that was designed specifically for the Core 2 chips.

Running one right now

[melted]

2.33GHz, 2GB RAM, 160GB HDD. It's scary fast, even in Aperture. After reading horror stories on the web I thought it'd run ridiculously hot. Not so, my friends. The bottom does get hot when you do something hardcore (LiveType realtime rendering or a hardcore Aperture session), but not as hot as to be unbearable. Overall, I'm very pleased with my purchase, and this is hands down the best laptop I've ever used.

My son is very pleased, too - he can't get enough of Photo Booth. :0)

I HAVE ONE, IT'S OK...

[posterlogo]

I upgraded from the ORIGINAL G4 Titanium from 5 years ago. So ya, it's pretty nice. But to be perfectly honest, the "benchmarks" comparing my 5yr old powerbook to this new macbook pro would place the new one as being ~500-1000% faster. So... what I'm trying to say is that I don't really notice anything being that much faster :) It's nice to have the latest and greatest, but I probably wouldn't have upgraded if my old one hadn't pretty much died.

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

No you can't. Once you add enough upgrades to match the Apple, then the price is more than the Macbook. Look at all the stuff it has standard before you do the math.

Re:

[wile_e_wonka]

I'm not sure what you mean saying that's a comparible computer. For example, that XPS doesn't come with a 15 in screen, nor a 120 GB hard drive.

Re:

[DDLKermit007]

Yay, an AC troll. I'll bite even though your too big a chickenshit to get moded correctly. Your config I know doesn't include: Comparable Screen (flatly not available), FireWire 800, Backlit Keyboard, Gigabit Ethernet, inferior Graphics Card and lacks CD/DVD burner. Oh, and it's missing OSX. Not to mention the iLife software that beats the hell out of anything Dell provides. There isn't even a PC program comparable to Garage Band so STFU.

Guaranteed, anyone who pisses and moans over the price as a reason n

Re:

[Bob-o-Matic!]

I just got my first mac ever, the MBP C2D. I finally had the chance to play with garageband last night, and I recorded rhythm and lead tracks in just minutes. This was my first time doing any multitrack recording. It went well, sounded pretty good (used a cheapy strat plugged directly in to the line in port) and I was very pleased. I think that if you are interested in making music you will love garageband, especially considering the price. If you aren't an aspiring musician, especially if you don't us

Re:

[Bob-o-Matic!]

All I know is that given my new mbp with garageband, I won't be dissapointed at all if I can't get a Wii before the Thanksgiving break.
That said, I do have a Wii countdown widget running :)

Re:

[dfghjk]

When I priced the Dell 1505 my result was $1523 (+20 for bluetooth). Same memory, hard drive, and video memory, the Dell has an x1400 (not x1300 as you say) and the fastest proc is 2.16GHz not 2.33. In it's favor is a superior 1680x1050 screen that Apple does not offer. Not all features will be identical but that doesn't mean that every difference is inherently in favor of Apple.

All these always come down to the fact that PC's can be configured cheaper, there are always differences that can't be factored

Re:

[dfghjk]

Oh yeah, there's that one too. Nevermind that the argument was that it didn't cost more. *shrug*

Re:

[shmlco]

Well, you're also seem to be missing the Aluminum case, the FW800 port, the iSight camera, the drop-tilt sensors, the ambient lighting sensors, the backlit keyboard, the ExpressCard slot, the MagSafe power connector, OS X, and the iLife suite. All of which, to me anyway, closes up the gap nicely.

And let's not forget the free person-to-person tech support availalbe at your local Apple store. What Chineese/Indian tech support phone tree do you have to naviagate if your TP has issues?

And I notice that you list

Re:

[Constantine Evans]

Do you mean the Apple technical support which wanted my credit card number before they honoured my warranty, just in case they decided replacing the dead hard drive wasn't covered? And then was rude enough to replace the combo drive in my iBook with a CD-ROM drive, and deny that they had done so afterward, when the drive wasn't even broken in the first place? I'd rather talk to an Indian or Chinese tech support which respects me rather than an American tech support system that treats me like an idiot.

Amazin

Re:

[kkwst2]

Hmm, Aluminum vs. Magnesium alloy - advantage Thinkpad.

FW800 - What devices do you have that use FW800 and are actually faster because of it? I know I have none. Quick, make something up.

Drop-tilt sensors were developed by Thinkpad and are standard on all Thinkpads (DOH!!).

Thinkpad has a keyboard illuminator built into the top of the screen that is also useful as a light. More functional and much less cheesy than the backlit keyboard in my book. To each his own.

MagSafe power connector is neat. I must s

advantages of MBP

[falconwolf]

FW800 - What devices do you have that use FW800 and are actually faster because of it? I know I have none. Quick, make something up.

DSRL? External HD? Scanner?

The software is your choice. I find nothing on iLife compelling.

Agreed about iLife. Afterall that's what you get a computer for, the run the software you want to use. Once you know what software you want or need then you pick the OS and hardware.

So after addressing the above, you're saying that you would pay $200 to have a significantly lo

I'm assuming you mean DSLR??

[falconwolf]

You're right, I meant DSLR, for some reason I frequently make that mistake. I don't know why, though I'm not a pro I am a photographer. Actually I am hoping to get into photography professionally. But I need to work on my composition, and because it's been way too long since I've worked in a darkroom I'll probably have to take some darkroom classes. I loved it when I worked in darkrooms, but I also want to do digital photography as well as try medium format, say get a 645 camera.

Regarding your crashes

Re:

[shmlco]

"significantly lower resolution screen"

Until Windows has a true resolution-independent interface, I'm not sure having a higher resolution screen capable of displaying text in flyspeck condensed is a major advantage.

And as a photographer I do have FW800 drives, and do find the transfer speed to be higher than when I'm using thee FW400 connectors.

And sorry, but I thought the "Client Security Solution" was the typical first year anti-virus/firewall subscription that's de rigeur for all Windows systems. My bad.

Re:

[snuf23]

"And let's not forget the free person-to-person tech support availalbe at your local Apple store."

IF you have an Apple Store locally.
Now at my business we use Mac's and PCs (Dells) - let's compare how support worked out for repairing a MacBook Pro and a Dell Latitude:

MacBook Pro - dies the second day of usage. To get service we need to book a time with a "Genius", physically go down to the store. Prognosis is not good. Repairs cannot be done at the store. MacBook Pro is shipped off to be repaired. Turnaroun

Re:

[alcmaeon]

macbooks are too expensive for me to buy one, if they ever come down in price that would be great.But right now you can buy a pc with the same config cheaper.

Really? I didn't know non-Apple branded PC's shipped with MacOS X. I'll have to check into this.

Re:

[falconwolf]

Does this so called OSX run the world of free software like...

Filezilla?
EAC?
Free Download Manager?

As OSX has BSD under the hood it should be able to run most software that runs on BSD. Now you may have to run it in X but you can still run a lot of FOOS software.

Falcon

Re:

[be-fan]

You can buy a PC with the same config cheaper, but not substantially cheaper. I can't speak for the MBP, but when I got my Macbook this summer, I did some looking around, and even if you ignore things like build-quality, most comparable x86 laptops were less than 10% cheaper. If you got a comparably small and sturdy machine, the price was actually substantially higher.

Re:

[Overly Critical Guy]

But right now you can buy a pc with the same config cheaper.

No, you can't. Apple has been beating Dell on price for many months now.

Re:

[pavera]

I attempted this test before I purchased my 2.33ghz macbook pro last week.
I configured a dell latitude 15.4" exactly the same
2.33Ghz Core 2 Duo
2GB RAM
100GB HD (couldn't match apples 160GB option...)
256MB Video RAM
8x DVD/CDRW
wireless

sure Dell says "Starting at $999" or something, but once all these upgrades were applied the Dell would cost $2400 before shipping and tax
Also with the Dell: No DVI output for video, No firewire, no development tools built in, have to dual boot to do real development, larger hard

Re:

[EastCoastSurfer]

You found a coupon on to take a $2k Latitude (not that crap they call an Inspiron) down to 1k? I know dell has coupons floating all over the place, but 50% off seems a bit much.

Re:

[ElephanTS]

As someone that maintains Macbooks and other Mac laptops I'd say that the quality control isn't good. This week a 14-month old 17" G4 went down with a motherboard problem - it's essentially a write off due to the massive price of a new board. Happens all the time. All I say to people is make sure you buy the AppleCare extended warranty, it's expensive but in the majority of cases worth it. However I think this advice applies to most laptops not Apple in general. It's also why I don't bother owning one anymo

Re:

[johnpaul191]

seriously, if you are not just trying to start a flame war, i wonder if it is just the abundance of people's complaints being heard louder than before. i only one Apple portable (an ibook) that's worked flawlessly for the last 5 years. i have never had a serious issue with my desktops (going back to before the Macintosh). out of people i directly know with Apple computers, nobody has had a serious issue that Apple did not resolve in a decent way. i know somebody that knows somebody that had some terrible st

Re:Tired of this

[wbren]

1. Go to your Slashdot account preferences page
2. Click the "Homepage" link at the top of that page ( http://hardware.slashdot.org/users.pl?op=edithome [slashdot.org] )
3. Uncheck the Apple section

Hope that helps.

Re:

[toddestan]

Too bad that won't help with this story, as it seems to be under the more generic Hardware category rather than the Apple category.

Gracias, cabron

[BeeBeard]

I won't bother to explain my circumstances in great detail, but they involve coming back from a lousy Irish pub Saturday and then fooling around on my computer for an hour or two with all the useful effects of alcohol in place, such as loss of memory and impaired judgment. Beer goggled, I got busy with an ugly girl who talks too much last night, and that girl was Slashdot and its myriad posters too cowardly to support their statements with an actual login.

That's all you really need to know. Actually, that

Re:

[DDLKermit007]

Your kidding me...you have to ask that? What the hell are you doing on /. if you can't figure that out?

Re:

[CrackedButter]

No matter how much you pay for a PC. You'll never get OSX. Its worth it for that alone. Your original point is irrelevant anyway since there isn't an exact equivalent PC when comparing one to a mac.

Re:

[shmlco]

Less hardware? You seem to be missing the Aluminum case, the FW800 port, the iSight camera, the drop-tilt sensors, the ambient lighting sensors, the backlit keyboard, the ExpressCard slot, and the MagSafe power connector. All of which, to me anyway, closes up the gap nicely. And articles indicate that the Mac also has wireless-N, but is waiting for the drivers/standard to finallize.

And let's not forget OS X, the iLife suite, and the free person-to-person tech support availalbe at your local Apple store. Wha

Re:

[falconwolf]

The Thinkpad doesn't have a camera, but has a higher resolutions screen, better graphics card, Wireless N (if you want it)

The MacBook Pro comes with a wireless chip set capable of Pre N, it doesn't work because OSX isn't Pre N capable though Leopard will be. Also even if you could use Pre N now it doesn't mean that it will be compatible with other Pre N hardware that's available now nor that it will be upgradable. Though having Pre N may be something to consider until the N standard is approved in 2008

Re:

[RAMMS+EIN]

``if someone could get a legit version of OSX running on a PC''

Not going to happen. The license of OS X forbids it running on non-Apple hardware.

Re:

[toddestan]

Not going to happen. The license of OS X forbids it running on non-Apple hardware.

On the other hand, a lot of that hinges on the validity and legality of the EULA. Apple's position that you cannot legally run OSX on anything other than a Mac is not as strong as it seems, though they can easily not support anyone who tries.

Re:

[Overly Critical Guy]

Macs don't cost more than equivalent PCs. In fact, the Mac Pro and MacBook Pro are thousands less than their Dell equivalents.

Re:

[Whiney Mac Fanboy]

...the Mac Pro and MacBook Pro are thousands less than their Dell equivalents.

Utterly stupid!

1) Dell is not the only manufacturor of non-mac PCs.
2) Dell is not the cheapest manufacturor of non-mac PCs.
3) What is this obsession Mac fanboys have with Dell? Surely you could pick someone a little classier as your competition yardstick?
4) Look at Asus notebooks. Better specced, lighter, smaller, cheaper. Same chinese 60hrs/week factory Macs come from

Hope thats cleared up any confusion!

Re:Apple, Schmapple..All Apple Would Have To Do

[Nom du Keyboard]

if someone could get a legit version of OSX running on a PC, I'd be using a PC and OSX rather than splashing out the extra cash for an Apple.

All Apple has to do is unbundle their hardware/software, price the MacBook at a comparable cost to the PC, and price OSX at the difference between the current cost and the hardware only cost. You'd still pay the same overall, yet get your hardware at Dell/HP/IBM prices. Would that make you happier?

Re:

[falconwolf]

All Apple has to do is unbundle their hardware/software, price the MacBook at a comparable cost to the PC, and price OSX at the difference between the current cost and the hardware only cost. You'd still pay the same overall, yet get your hardware at Dell/HP/IBM prices. Would that make you happier?

Nope! What many forget or don't realize is that Apple is as much a hardware as a software company. Apple as already found out that they loose more money by allowing Mac clones than they make in licensing fees

OSX on non Apple hardware

[falconwolf]

What really sold me on the Apple Mac Mini was the OS. But given that Apples seem to cost more than equivalent PCs, if someone could get a legit version of OSX running on a PC, I'd be using a PC and OSX rather than splashing out the extra cash for an Apple.

Ah but would Mac OSX run as good on non Apple hardware? I don't think so, because Apple makes OSX to run only on Mac computers they are able to it just work. If Apple were to make the OS so it would run on any pc then they'd have to test it on a bunch

Re:

[jellomizer]

Yawn!
Your statement is getting lame and boring. Yes you can save money by getting a PC with similar specs. But if you match all (Even the specs that may not be important to you) the specs, with a an other Major Commercial PC manufacture (Dell, HP. Lenovo...) The price will be around the same say +/- $100 (depending on the total cost of the systems).

Apple will will not License OS X to PCs and they probably will never do that. So stop complaining about it. Besides if OS X did run on Standard PCs in the most

Re:

[dfghjk]

All yours are stale arguments as well. Force the PC to compare to the mac configuration (an impossible task), place premium value on every difference no matter how slight, then the factor in the subjective value of software differences (that can't be resolved) in favor of the mac and the mac wins every time. It's a fact that if you want to run OS X then mac is your only choice. That doesn't make the mac cheaper.

In this particular example, Apple people will argue that the mini's size is a critical factor

Re:

[AliasTheRoot]

You picked up on the area of the Mac product line where a lot of enthusiasts find a big hole, and i'd like to see them put something in there to fill the gap. The iMac is really a desktop for general use, home users that just want to web surf and office folk that just do Word or basic design stuff. The Mac Pro is a heavy duty workstation built for really intensive AV work and absolute overkill for a hobbyist.

Maybe they'll pad out the product line with a Core 2 Duo, non integrated box. I'd buy one in a flash

Re:

[be-fan]

Increasing the RAM from 1GB to 2GB will only increase performance if your benchmark uses more than 1GB of RAM. This benchmark doesn't, so there shouldn't be any difference in performance.

Re:

[toddestan]

Probably because most benchmarks are not that memory heavy. As a matter of fact, most of them tend to be pretty light, as they are more concerned with raw memory performance and raw CPU performance and don't want the system to start swapping and throwing the measurement off. In the real world, there will be a noticable difference between 1GB and 2GB, though to really see it you're going to have push the system some (1GB seems to already be plenty for common tasks).