Honda Robot Controlled By Brain Waves

Dotnaught writes "Honda researchers to have developed a way to control robots using human brain waves. Using brain signals read from a person in a magnetic resonance imaging scanner, a robotic hand mirrored the movement of the human controller, spreading its fingers and making a 'V' sign."

I for one . . .

[cashman73]

I for one welcome our new mind-reading overlords!

Re:I for one . . .

[Anonymous Coward]

Not so fast! Rumor has it that putting tinfoil around your head stops the robots!

Viva la resistencia!

Re:I for one . . .

[HaydnH]

"I for one welcome our new mind-reading overlords!"

I for one welcome the lack of originality on /.!

At least they aren't thinking for themselves...

[FrontalLobe]

On the other hand... I'm sure AI would be more peaceful than some that would get their hands on the technology

Re:At least they aren't thinking for themselves...

[eln]

My God, you're right! With this technology, someone could poke both of your eyes at once. We must invent a robotic hand we can put up against our noses to block this weapon immediately.

finally!

[dwarfling]

guess vulcan trekkies have robo friends ;)

Re:finally!

[dwarfling]

it was planned , but R&D had some trouble, so this model will be a little late ...

Re:finally!

[cp.tar]

When the robot starts showing the other sign, with only the middle finger raised, then we should start worrying.

Where's Mitchell Gant when you need him?

[Tackhead]

"I must think in... Japanese?!?! [imdb.com]"

Re:Where's Mitchell Gant when you need him?

[Kuukai]

And the Japanese must think in... German?!?! [imdb.com]

Re:Where's Mitchell Gant when you need him?

[KDR_11k]

Apparently you have to learn German if you want to become a doctor in Japan.

Re:Where's Mitchell Gant when you need him?

[DanHibiki]

It's funny, because Shinji had to think in German when riding back seat in the 02.

Unfortunately...

[GillBates0]

...further trials resulted in the robotic hand trying to touch itself every other minute and repeatly making lewd gestures with it's middle finger.

Re:Unfortunately...

[Goblez]

That's because you ordered the robot with the intelligence of a 6 year old ("No means No" ... "Ooooh! A Pool!"). You need to drop the flow to pick up a higher end model.

Re:Unfortunately...

[iminplaya]

..further trials resulted in the robotic hand trying to touch itself every other minute...

So it was actually reading Michael Jackson's mind...

Science Fiction!

[InsomniacMK5]

It never ceases to amaze me how we have made science fiction from the past possible. Although I am quite curious how "A.I." will play out in the future, I am excited to own my very own, personal, light saber.

Re:

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:Science Fiction!

[HarvardAce]

It will obviously try to take over and kill us all....I mean that has to be the plot for at least a dozen sci-fi movies, a few of which were actually successful...

The plots or the movies?

It's good to see they're making progress

[something_wicked_thi]

A while back, I remember reading that someone had invented a video game that was controlled similarly, but it took a while to train yourself to "think" properly. Having the robot mirror your own movement sounds far superior. If this continues to develop, I have some hope of never developing carpal tunnel syndrome.

Re:It's good to see they're making progress

[killqqq]

That's why we need Newtype!!

Re:It's good to see they're making progress

[MBGMorden]

Except that as developed, your "real" hands would be making the same movements as the robotic ones. No worries though. Once you do get carpal tunnle you can just lob them off and use the robot ones instead :).

Seriously though, this could work wonder for quadraplegics and such, where their real limbs don't work anymore, but they can still make the thoughts that would do so if they did work.

Re:It's good to see they're making progress

[Talchas]

I know this sort of thing (using electrodes or something more invasive IIRC) has been done in monkeys for a while. They would have the monkeys use a joystick to hit a target, and if they succeeded they got some reward. Meanwhile they were updating the software to properly recognize the movements. Then they cut out the stick and ran it just on the readings. Eventually the monkeys learned that the stick wasn't need to move it.

Re:It's good to see they're making progress

[Talchas]

Heres the article http://www.sciamdigital.com/index.cfm?fa=Products. ViewIssuePreview&ARTICLEID_CHAR=1A513F15-E935-4C6E -840E-253E60B02DF [sciamdigital.com]

With mind-reading robots available

[Anonymous Coward]

...can a Stephen Hawking Transformer be far behind?

Ask and ye shall receive

[spun]

Here ya go. [theonion.com]

With this technology

[donglekey]

I could steal old people's medicine

Re:With this technology

[Shadowlore]

I could steal old people's medicine

More importantly you could finally get that candy from the baby!

Re:With this technology

[donglekey]

Old Glory Robot Insurance might not cover that though.

Also found in the news:

[EmperorKagato]

Venture Capitalists fund $300 billion dollars into a project presented by an organization called NERV.

Ironically

[everphilski]

The venture capitalists, ironically, were part of an organization called STEELE.

Re:Ironically

[everphilski]

The venture capitalists, ironically, were part of an organization called SEELE. SEELE, fat fingers.

seems like they went backwards

[musikit]

arent the robots suppose to learn how to control the human brain?

Re:seems like they went backwards

[XMyth]

Obviously they're only one switch away from that now....just change the direction of the device (point it the other way) and there we go.

So you don' t have to...

[Codename.Juggernaut]

When will honda start implementing this technology into their cars? I can't wait to get cut off in traffic by some jerk while his civic is flipping me off.

basically...

[newSlashUser]

the robot is either saying peace or cursing you out? init?

Prosthetics?

[jizziknight]

This would be really cool to implement in prosthetics. How awesome would it be to get a robotic arm that functioned just like your real arm that got ripped off by another robot when it's AI went nutso instead of a flesh colored piece of plastic?

It certiably worked for

[geekoid]

this guy:
http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/darthva der/ [starwars.com]

Just what we need,

[Anonymous Coward]

More perverted robots.

Let me guess...

[Nos.]

Not available in the USA.

Who has a billion dollars?

[Noishe]

So now everyone can have their own robot controled by their brain. But there's a catch! (omg) You only need your own billion dollar mri machine!

Re:Who has a billion dollars?

[SeaFox]

No, the catch is you have to have a brain. That should lower the uptake on this thing.

Behind the curtain

[Overzeetop]

FTA:

In a video demonstration in Tokyo, brain signals detected by a magnetic resonance imaging scanner were relayed to a robotic hand. A person in the MRI machine made a fist, spread his fingers and then made a V-sign. Several seconds later, a robotic hand mimicked the movements. (emphasis mine)

Afterward, a reporter who strayed too far from the crowd was warned by security not to look behind the curtain.

It's probably just latency

[PIPBoy3000]

You have to remember how MRI's work [wikipedia.org]:

It has been known for over 100 years (Roy and Sherrington 1890) that changes in blood flow and blood oxygenation in the brain (collectively known as hemodynamics) are closely linked to neural activity. When nerve cells are active they consume oxygen carried by hemoglobin in red blood cells from local capillaries. The local response to this oxygen utilisation is an increase in blood flow to regions of increased neural activity, occurring after a delay of approximately 1-5 seconds.

Add in some computing time to process the image and you've got your latency right there.

Re:It's probably just latency

[Fear the Clam]

Maybe it'll be like a Michael Crichton novel: They'll invent a working time machine and use it to go backward in time to remove the latency period, so they could use the resulting robots to build a theme park.

Re:Behind the curtain

[kalirion]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed that. It could not possibly have taken that long to decode the brainwaves. At the very least this could mean that it wasn't making the gestures that generated the correct brainwaves. The person had to concentrate on something else afterwards before the robot moved.

Re:Behind the curtain

[Overzeetop]

It was a joke. Really.

Actually, even if the recordation of the brainwaves controlling the motion was instantaneous (which is, apparently, is not - I'm a rocket scientist, not a brain surgeon) I would anticipate a good deal of postprocessing to get the motion reformatted from MRI raw data to motor controls. Actually, I think several seconds is pretty damned good.

Of course, if the sister post here is true (1-5 seconds of delay for O2 variation sensing), we won't see this for any sort of useful controls in rea

Re:Behind the curtain

[Mr. Slippery]

It could not possibly have taken that long to decode the brainwaves.

Except they're not reading "brainwaves", i.e. EEG, but MRI. MRI readings lags brain activity.

Technology upgrade!

[__aaclcg7560]

This is a siginficant technology upgrade from the roboroach [wireheading.com]. Still, I'll wait until SP1 just to make sure all the bugs are out of the system. :P

From Ork

[cpopin]

...then merging that "V" sign with the humans and spouting, "Nanu, nanu."

Quirky Robots

[MrSquirrel]

I just pray the day never comes when robots learn our most dear secret -- THE SHOCKER. Once they learn how to please our women, we are doomed! What do our fleshy human bodies have to offer a woman that an indestructible killing/loving machine cannot?

Re:Quirky Robots

[FirienFirien]

Semen?

I've always thought...

[Temujin_12]

...that it was only a matter of time until we started to see brain-to-machine mappings for communication. The possibilities are very exciting (coding with your brain anyone?). What scares me is when efforts are taken to have machine-to-brain communication. Call me crazy, but I prefer my own synapses to be the only source of thought in my brain. I don't even want to begin to think what it could happen when the machine segfaults (or gets hacked into) while injecting thoughts into my brain.

Re:I've always thought...

[maxume]

So, um, do you read stuff?

That's interesting about the machine segfaulting though. I imagine the one that came from the 'It works, holy shit it works!' school of thought would fuck you mightily while the one that came from the "That's what I want it to do." school would do nothing harmful.

Is it just me...

[llvllatrix]

...or did that have giant fighting robots written all over it?

Re:Is it just me...

[KDR_11k]

Indeed. I want my HAR fighting league! Sounds like 2097 wasn't such a bad estimate.

I want my EVA!

[Nicolay77]

Hey, not only 14 year old people have brain waves!

universality?

[Red Flayer]

So, does the MRI interpreting algorithm need to be tailored to each user, or could an 'off-the-shelf' interpreter work for anyone?

While I'm sure that bloodflow signatures for physical movements are similar between individuals, is there too much variability to prevent false recognition of a 'signal'?

Any neurobiologists out there care to help out?

Re:universality?

[venicebeach]

So, does the MRI interpreting algorithm need to be tailored to each user, or could an 'off-the-shelf' interpreter work for anyone? While I'm sure that bloodflow signatures for physical movements are similar between individuals, is there too much variability to prevent false recognition of a 'signal'?

At this point, it is surprising that they can even do it for an individual (discerning among these three quite similar hand movements). I am kind of skeptical myself. There is a lot of variability in fMRI signal even within an individual. I would guess the system is trained on a specific individual.

Between individuals you have additional sources of variability; for example, the foldings of the cortex are quite different from person to person. I personally have a very unusual precentral gyrus on the left side. Activity maps are typically aligned to anatomical maps so finding correspondences between individuals has to deal with the challenges of anatomical variability.

For gross things, it can be quite obvious what the person is doing. I can tell by looking at the activations in your brain if you are looking at something versus hearing something. But looking at a duck versus looking at a cow? Much harder. Making a V-sign versus making a fist? I've never seen a paper where someone reported being able to do this. It is theoretically possible, but difficult with a blurry MRI signal that aggregates over populations of neurons. You can certainly do it if you implant electrodes into the brain. Recordings from monkey premotor cortex, for example, find neurons that fire when specific movements are made.

Re:universality?

[FleaPlus]

For gross things, it can be quite obvious what the person is doing. I can tell by looking at the activations in your brain if you are looking at something versus hearing something. But looking at a duck versus looking at a cow? Much harder. Making a V-sign versus making a fist? I've never seen a paper where someone reported being able to do this. It is theoretically possible, but difficult with a blurry MRI signal that aggregates over populations of neurons.

I think this research is a follow-up to a study Ka

Re:universality?

[venicebeach]

Thanks for the reference. I think there are a handful of papers in which they have extracted information about what someone is seeing from visual cortex, I've just never seen one in the motor domain...but maybe you will produce a ref for that as well. :)

Re:universality?

[FleaPlus]

Thanks for the reference. I think there are a handful of papers in which they have extracted information about what someone is seeing from visual cortex, I've just never seen one in the motor domain...but maybe you will produce a ref for that as well. :)

Alas, I don't happen to have such a reference handy. ;)

Re:universality?

[Chabil Ha']

It's not just the robot being able to interpret your brain waves, but your brain also adjusting to new interface as well. Take for example babies: they often don't have much control of their appendages, not just because of underdeveloped muscles, but the pathways to fine motor control have to be developed as well.

This is also demonstrated to learning to use a joystick or gamepad. Anyone new to a different kind of interface needs to make certain adjustments and brain motor connections to accommodate a new

hmmmm

[venicebeach]

I've done some fMRI of motor movements... All these movements, the fist, the V-sign, would activate the hand area, premotor cortex, and some parietal areas... I am very skeptical that you could tell the difference between them. But if they can that is very impressive, especially to do it in real time...

By the way, MRI does not measure "brain waves". It measures blood oxygenation changes, which are related to the firing of neurons.

Re:hmmmm

[Roger_Wilco]

And there's one of the big problems with fMRI:

By the way, MRI does not measure "brain waves". It measures blood oxygenation changes, which are related to the firing of neurons.

It is quite likely that the BOLD signal and neural spiking are related. Everybody believes it, myself included. But there is still not that much evidence of the connection.

Re:hmmmm

[FleaPlus]

I noticed in your URL that you're in BU's CNS department. How do you like it there? I almost decided to go there myself for grad school.

It is quite likely that the BOLD signal and neural spiking are related. Everybody believes it, myself included. But there is still not that much evidence of the connection.

What are your thoughts on the experiments by Nikos Logothetis [nature.com] where he did electrophysiological recordings of neurons and fMRI simultaneously (certainly not an easy feat). In his study he showed that the

Re:hmmmm

[venicebeach]

And to add on to FleaPlus's comment, I find this rather convincing as well:

Mukamel, R., Gelbard, H., Arieli, A., Hasson, U., Fried, I., Malach, R., (2005). Coupling between neuronal firing, field potentials, and FMRI in human auditory cortex. Science, 309(5736),951-4.

Functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) is an important tool for investigating human brain function, but the relationship between the hemodynamically based fMRI signals in the human brain and the underlying neuronal activity is uncl

Re:

[account_deleted]

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Get ready for the robot wars...

[dfj225]

Because that 'V' was for Vendetta.

cool :)

[FudRucker]

i hope this interfaces with my orbiting brain lazor.

Re:cool :)

[HumanisticJones]

As long as it runs on Linux it should interface with said orbiting brain lasers as well as your Beowulf Cluster of Atomic Supermen.

like the monkey stuff from a few years ago

[kaan]

About 3 years ago, some scientists hooked up a chimpanzee and captured brain signals to control a robotic arm. Their results were quite a bit more impressive I think, because the robotic arm had full motion control, and was physically located several hundred miles away from the chimp. But still, this stuff from Honda is cool, because it's controlled by humans using mri, not wires plugged into your brain like the monkey stuff. I just hope they don't try to put brain controller stuff in their vehicles...

Here's an article from New Scientist:
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn4262 [newscientist.com]

Re:like the monkey stuff from a few years ago

[venicebeach]

2) the "monkey" did not control robotic arms hundreds of miles away. The robotic arms hundreds of miles away were moved with signals made in the monkey's brain.

Sorry, what's the difference?

Promising Research

[sidfaiwu]

I'm really curious about this device. Does the user have to actually have to go through the hand motions or is it sufficient to just think about moving your hand? I'm also interested in how this technology could be used for applications beyond mimicry. The article talks about using the technology to replace keyboards and cell phones, but how can it mimic placing a call? A cell phone is not a natural part of our body that we can manipulate directly with our minds like our hand is.

Also, if they did deve

Re:Promising Research

[venicebeach]

Does the user have to actually have to go through the hand motions or is it sufficient to just think about moving your hand?

That depends on where they are getting the relevant information from. Imagining a movement and performing it produce overlapping but not identical brain activations. If they can get enough info from just the overlapping areas then conceivably you could do that...

Re:Promising Research

[dmitrygr]

A cell phone is not a natural part of our body
Tell that to my 16-year-old sister

New meaning to telecommuting

[psyklopz]

Imagine a world where you can go hook yourself into a robotic control chamber and somewhere on the other side of the world, your robotic counterpart begins to walk around, talk, do things, all based on your brainwaves.

Meanwhile, video from teh robot's 'eye' are transmitted to a 3d viewer in front of your face.

Forget star-rek transporters. Thisi s the next best (and plausible) thing.

Very bad implications for crime and terrorism, though.

Re:New meaning to telecommuting

[forkazoo]

Imagine a world where you can go hook yourself into a robotic control chamber and somewhere on the other side of the world, your robotic counterpart begins to walk around, talk, do things, all based on your brainwaves.

Meanwhile, video from teh robot's 'eye' are transmitted to a 3d viewer in front of your face.

Forget star-rek transporters. Thisi s the next best (and plausible) thing.

Very bad implications for crime and terrorism, though.

I don't know that it would be that bad for crime and terrorism. Sure, th

More Links

[vertinox]

As per the discussion on Digg [digg.com] here is a video of the robot in action with the MRI:

http://www.newlaunches.com/archives/honda_develops _bmi_robot_hand.php [newlaunches.com]

And all the other links that were related:

http://www.engadget.com/2006/05/24/hondas-asimo-ge ts-mind-control-interface/ [engadget.com]

http://www.japancorp.net/Article.Asp?Art_ID=12565 [japancorp.net]

The Japancorp has the most information than both the engadget and then Yahoo.

Obligatory...

[talkingpaperclip]

In Soviet Russia, Honda Robots control Brain Waves!

I, for one, welcome our new shocker-wielding robotic overlords.

I know what they are all thinking

[sentientbrendan]

GIANT FIGHTING ROBOTS

Seriously, why else has Japan dumped all this money into robotics and AI over the past 30 years? It's because everyone there grew up on Gigantor http://www.gigantor.org/ [gigantor.org] and Gundom, that's why. They are going to make giant fighting robots if it kills them.

Really though, this is all just trying to fill a void after the death of Godzilla in the late 60's. Substituting one giant stompy thing for another.

If you want to learn more about the life and times of gozilla and natures other lovable giant scamps, then I suggest you check out "Godzilla, Mothra, and King Ghidorah - Gaint Monster All Out Attack an A&E biography."

Re:I know what they are all thinking

[HumanisticJones]

All they need now is a power supply for these robots that runs on pure Fighting Spirit and all my childhood giant robot dreams will come true.

My kids couldn't ever use it.

[CFD339]

They clearly don't have enough organized brainwaves to run the lawn mower.

Kidding aside, I understand that during adolescence the brain completely reorganizes higher functions -- often shifting the center or processing for many of them to entirely different places.

Exactly how would this ASIMO++ handle that?

Oh, and what about blondes?

Re:My kids couldn't ever use it.

[llvllatrix]

Blondes would have to go to Soviet Russia, where Honda Robots control Brain Waves.

So, here's the technical question...

[caudron]

...is it still called "masturbation" if the robot is the one doing it to you?

Tom Caudron
http://tom.digitalelite.com/ [digitalelite.com]

P.S. I look forward to 15 years from now when my daughter reads this comment after searching on my name. What a proud moment in my history to share with future generations. :(

Re:So, here's the technical question...

[BenHoltz]

Try 5 years when google takes over the world....

Re:So, here's the technical question...

[esper]

Yes, and in 15 years, your daughter will probably know the answer to the question, too. Unfortunately, the thread will be long-since archived, so she'll have to answer it for you in person rather than posting a comment here.

Re:So, here's the technical question...

[alienmole]

When your daughter does find this, it'll trigger the Internet Child Protection Act of 2012, her computer will automatically notify Homeland Security, and you'll be shipped off to New Guantanamo, located on an artificial island off the coast of California.

Re:So, here's the technical question...

[exp(pi*sqrt(163))]

Why is it goint to take your daughter 15 years to find this comment? Does she have some kind of mental or physical impairment that will make her unable to do a web search until she's 15 years older than she is now? Or are you keeping her locked up in a cage for the next 15 years with no access to the outside world?

Flipping off the Brits

[austinpoet]

The human was making a V sign with his hand. The robot hand looks more like its flipping off the Brits.

My reaction to TFA

[HunterZ]

I didn't appreciate it turning into an Asimo ad at the end. Also, it's hard to belive it works very well (or at all) when they report only being able to do one gesture with it. Definitely a cool idea though, and it's good if they're really making progress.

Even more important than robotics would be the application to artificial/cybernetic replacement limbs. If they could miniturize the sensor technology to where it could be embedded in a hat, or (even better) just under the skin of the scalp, it could be use

Seig Zeon!!

[CharAznable]

With this technology I shall build an army of Zakus [mahq.net] and I will defeat Amuro Ray once and for all!!!

Movie references...

[mangu]

So many movie references, and nobody mentions Dr. Strangelove? [imdb.com]

Dr. Strangelove's unruly prosthetic arm is what always comes to my mind when someone mentions artificial limbs or humanoid robots. Besides, how can anyone forget a movie that has a character named "General Jack D. Ripper"? I guess I must be getting old... =8(

Re:Movie references...

[transparentsea]

Dr. Strangelove. They're japanese. Think Ghost in the Shell.

Domo arigato, Mr. Roboto

[Loquax]

Now I've got that damn song running through my head. I wonder what the system does when it enounters Stxy based brain waves.

Re:Domo arigato, Mr. Roboto

[NewmanBlur]

Funnily enough, the Japanese have also developed a superior version of Mr. Roboto [youtube.com].

Strangely they left out the elements about Kilroy! Kilroy.

Re:

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

10 yrs ago...

[mwilliamson]

Some years ago a company came out with a product called "minddrive", and an assortment of computer games / tools. While not directly detecting brainwaves, it did detect skin resistance changes (due to sweat I suppose)...something that some people were evidently actually learning to control.

Here's all I can find of it: http://www.raven1.net/minddriv.htm [raven1.net]

Could be bad...

[ickies]

There are some hand gestures that flash through my head that I'd rather not have a robot execute...

Ok, so now...

[bforsse]

where can I pre-order my exo-skeleton?

Re:Useless!

[mwilliamson]

Uh, over 1/2 of my department is lefthanded. You minority freak northpaw!!!