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Apple Laptop Reliability Survey 347

Posted by Zonk from the what-works-and-what-wqrks dept.
Nikopol writes "The venerable Macintouch site recently released the results and analysis of a survey on Apple laptop reliability." From the article: "Our survey spanned every laptop capable of running Mac OS X, encompassing 41 models sold over seven and a half years. A challenge in ascertaining the reliability of any device is that more time gives them more opportunity to break, so new devices should always look more reliable at first glance. Our survey asked participants when their laptop first needed a repair -- 'first year', 'second or third year', and 'fourth year or later.' These correspond to the duration of Apple's standard one-year warranty, the AppleCare extended warranty program, and any repairs that might happen outside any warranty coverage period. We also asked participants if they purchased AppleCare for their laptop."
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Apple Laptop Reliability Survey More

Apple Laptop Reliability Survey

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  • PowerBook 140 (Score:5, Interesting)

    by thedbp ( 443047 ) on Tuesday January 03, 2006 @03:54PM (#14386980)
    I used a PowerBook 140 for about ... oh, I dunno, 12 years. The screen went out in 2003, but other than that the machine runs. Unfortunately, I have no SCSI computers/devices available to pull off the ONE THING I WANT MOST from that PowerBook.

    A small little Japanese puzzle game called Katayuri. Does anyone know where to download a copy of this great little game?

    Still though, 12 years without a problem is pretty freaking solid. Kudos!
    • we could have a thread about /. individual's experiences with Apple laptops?

      I would like here from my fellow /.'ers about this because I'm thinking of getting one.

      Oh, please, no Apple fanboy Troll posts. I want real feedback.

      Here's my story with Apple. I heard so many great things about the iMac (Flavored ones) and when I got one: I was REALLY disappointed. It kept locking up, had to reboot often, etc.... In all due honesty, I was using a lot of MS software on it - yes, I'm paranoid too about that - i.e.

      • Re:Maybe since the link is TOTALLY /.'d (Score:5, Informative)

        by nuggetman ( 242645 ) on Tuesday January 03, 2006 @04:08PM (#14387099) Homepage
        I bought a PowerBook 12" G4 in mid 2004. No AppleCare.
        Hard drive died on me this past October, about 4 months out of warranty.
        Instead of paying Apple's $375 repair, I spent $80 on a 60gb Seagate HD and disassambled and replaced it myself, and everything works fine.

        After my experiences regarding the PB, my iPod, and my ex gf's iBook, I would never pay for AppleCare - the free service isn't even worth the price so I sure as hell wouldn't pay for it

        • Re:Maybe since the link is TOTALLY /.'d (Score:5, Informative)

          by Blakey Rat ( 99501 ) on Tuesday January 03, 2006 @06:12PM (#14388118)
          On the other hand, I bought one of those terrible G3 800 mhz iBooks with the faulty motherboards. After having the motherboard repaired twice, I talked the "Genius" at the Apple Store into declaring it a lemon. Bam, free G4 iBook with all the trimmings came to my door the next week, and because I bought the AppleCare warranty.

          (Of course, part of it was the *great* service at the Apple Store and the fact that the manager there had the power to give me a free replacement without running it through corporate jerkwads. The actual AppleCare warranty stated that it was only declared a lemon after it fails 4 times. I got a replacement after 2.)

          FYI, if you had AppleCare, the HD replacement would have been free. (Because your computer would still have been under warranty.) That's kind of the *point* of the AppleCare program... so judging the extended warranty based on their refusal to service an out-of-warranty machine is a little kooky.

          All I know is that after talking with the super-nice guys at the Apple Store, and getting a free laptop, I've happy with my purchase even if it was a lemon at first.
          • I've got an ibook G4 with applecare. I started to get white spots. Apparently mine are caused from extreme pressure and are therefore not covered in applecare. So it's either deal with the ugly spots or pay $700 for a new screen. Applecare is a total waste if it doesn't actually pay for things when they break. Why even bother with applecare? This experience combined with the non linux friendly airport extreme has given me reason to never buy a mac again.
      • we could have a thread about /. individual's experiences with Apple laptops?

        Bought a 14in iBook G4 the beginning of 2004. It hasn't exploded yet.

        Hardware problems: the 'C' and 'L' keys getting a bit worn, and erm, that's it. I've used it just about every day since it was bought, yet its battery still gives about three hours of use when fully charged. A bit dull and unexciting really - I think I might replace it with an Intel-Inside Powerbook when they eventually come out, since the two year (John Lewis-assi
      • I bought a 12" iBook last fall and upgraded the ram myself. Never buy Apple's ram (except possibly on the Mac Mini). Anyways, the iBook is nice, and I was recommending them to people up until a few months ago. I'm waiting to see if the Intel versions come out next week. If they don't, the G4 iBook is a good machine. It is quite a bit slower than a Pentium M, but for the weight, battery life, and price it is very competitive. My only complaint is that the keyboard on it feels cheap. The keys had a way
      • Bought a refurbished 12" PowerBook in early December 2004 from the Apple Store. Two weeks later, right before Christmas, the LCD backlight started going out intermittently. Called Apple, expecting that it would take forever to (1) get through, (2) get someone to agree that it needed to be fixed and (3) get it back after sending ot off.

        It took less than fifteen minutes for the tech on the other end to give me an incident number and tell me that a shipping box would be dropped off that afternoon. Sent i

      • I'm on my third in about 7 years. I started with a Duo 270c which was a little colour screened thing. Due to some screw up with the ordering system I received 2 (my cousin used to work for Claris/Apple and they were getting rid of old office machines). Worked like a dream.

        Next I had a 14 inch Pismo (400 mhz). Lasted 3 years and I had to sell it as it was just too slow to run the newer flavours of OSX. It was heavy, but tough as old boots. The screen had a known fault and was replaced (during 1st year warran

      • Oh, please, no Apple fanboy Troll posts. I want real feedback.

        Well, I'll admit to being a bit of a fanboy, but not a drooling one, and certainly will try not to troll. I'll give my experiences, and you can judge for yourself. Anecdotal experience is not all that reliable, but mine is almost completely positive when it comes to the PowerBooks. Let's see... first PowerBook was a PowerBook 100 - the greyscale one. Got it second-hand when it was about two years old and used it for about three more years.

      • Here is my experience with a Rev C G4 12" PowerBook:

        • After 13 months (one month out of warranty) the 60GB hard drive died. I replaced it myself with a new 80GB drive,
        • Last month, after 20 months of use I decided to replace the battery after it was down to 42% of its original capacity (I was getting about 80 minutes per charge).

        And that's it. Otherwise, the system has been rock-solid and a complete joy to own and use. I'm not happy about the hard drive failing just a few weeks out of warranty, but last

      • I heard so many great things about the iMac (Flavored ones) and when I got one: I was REALLY disappointed. It kept locking up, had to reboot often, etc.... In all due honesty, I was using a lot of MS software on it - yes, I'm paranoid too about that - i.e. MS writing shit for Mac.

        Which family of flavored CRT iMacs, those with tray-load CD-ROM (266 and 333 MHz G3, 66 MHz FSB, RagePro) or those with slot-load CD-RW/DVD-ROM (350 - 700 MHz G3, 100 MHz FSB, Rage128)? Which version(s) of Mac OS?

        The original tray

      • Re:Maybe since the link is TOTALLY /.'d (Score:4, Interesting)

        by macrom ( 537566 ) <macrom75@hotmail.com> on Tuesday January 03, 2006 @05:00PM (#14387549) Homepage
        I picked up my custom 15" PowerBook on November 25th from FedEx. By the next weekend, my battery wouldn't hold a charge AT ALL, and you could watch the percentage meter in the menu bar tick down like a bomb about to go off. Called Apple, they sent me into a store here in Dallas. No batteries there, so they overnighted one to the store. Problem solved...

        ...until the left Shift key decided to not work. Have fun writing C++ code with no shift key. Took it to the Apple Store in Plano, had them adjust the key a bit, seemed to be alright. After a day of use, it totally stopped working. Called Apple, bitched up a storm. They refuse to do anything because the laptop wasn't DOA. By this time, I'm getting failure of keys on the left side of the keyboard and the right Shift key no longer works. Requests to ship a keyboard to a store so they can replace it were denied. My only recourse is to send in the laptop.

        So, here I am, a week before Macworld, trying to get a product ready and the lone machine that I have is a pain to work with. I ended up purchasing an iCurve (wonderful stand), an Apple Keyboard and a Mighty Mouse (cool once you get used to it) just to get my work done. We ordered an iMac for testing, but by the time it arrived I wasn't willing to compromise my deadline by setting up all my dev tools on it. Not to mention that I ordered a PowerBook because I have the need to be mobile.

        I'm sure that my story is unique. The last PB I owned was a G3 Pismo B, and that think kicked some ass. But it's really disheartening when you tell a company that you're trying to prepare for their largest convention of the year, and they just fall back on their "standard policy" song and dance and refuse to try and help you. Oh yeah, I was offered repeatedly to purchase Apple Pro Care for $99, something I didn't feel like I should have to pay for when I had a virtually non-functional laptop less than 3 weeks after it arrived.

        Any other horror stories like this?

    • Re:PowerBook 140 (Score:4, Informative)

      by conJunk ( 779958 ) on Tuesday January 03, 2006 @04:02PM (#14387050)
      Absolutely. The older powerbooks were pretty bullet proof. I had a Wallstreet G3 Powerbook from 1998 to 2002, and it had some problems: the hinges were just starting to go, and the power connector needed to be re-soldered to the daughterboard at one point, but other than those, it had zero issues.

      Getting the power connector resoldered was a nightmare though. Apple was only willing to replace the entire daughterboard it sat on, and for about $300. An afternoon of telephone calls turned up the good folks at MacForce [macforce.com], a nice little shop under a bridge in portland. They took a day to resolder the connection for me for $40, a far sight less than what apple wanted. When I replaced the Wallstreet with a G3 iBook, I went straight to them without a second thought.

      • The older powerbooks were pretty bullet proof.

        It's okay to say "bullet proof" when speaking of software, because the listener knows that you are speaking metaphorically.

        However, when it comes to hardware, you really should not call it bullet proof unless it actually stops bullets.

        Speaking of solid old Mac laptops, the old duo series was freakishly rugged. My first one was eight years old when it was stolen. For all I know, it still runs. I replaced it with another one from about the same era, and obsole
      • The most common problems I've had with laptops of all stripes have been the display, the power connector and the battery wearing out. I've owned or extensively used two compaqs, a Toshiba, a 12" G3 Ibook and a 17" G4 Powerbook.

        The first compaq I owned was a business class yacht of a laptop that was decent. I ran into power connector issues with it and the display eventually started blanking out because the connector would get loose.

        The second compaq was a piece of junk. Had a memory problem I could never
      • The older powerbooks were pretty bullet proof.

        Were they, now? I think you're forgetting about the PowerBook 5300.

        http://guides.macrumors.com/Powerbook_5300 [macrumors.com]

        Those things were dogs.

        SiO2
    • You need two things: a way to talk scsi on your computer. (PCI cards, USB/Firewire converters are all avalible.) And an adaptor to put the PowerBook into SCSI disk mode.

      I think I've still got my adaptor around here somewhere... (Though I think it still has shoe polish on the pins.)

    • Re:PowerBook 140 (Score:3, Informative)

      by ottffssent ( 18387 )
      Download? No.

      You can get external SCSI ZIP drives with disks for under $10 on ebay, but the PB140 has that funky Apple high-density SCSI connector (so sayeth the AppleSpec page [apple.com]. Conversion cables used to run about $40, but that was perhaps 10 years ago, so they're probably dollar-bin items these days. The spec page also says you should have a floppy drive (regular 1.44MB one, even), which isn't much help these days, but if you've still got a PB140 kicking around, finding a newer mac with a floppy shouldn

      • Re:PowerBook 140 (Score:4, Interesting)

        by SeaFox ( 739806 ) on Tuesday January 03, 2006 @05:04PM (#14387576)
        The problem here is his screen no longer works. He does have an S-Video out he could use. What he wants to do is hook up the Powerbook to another Mac that has a SCSI port and boot the Powerbook into Target Disk Mode so he can just copy whatever he wants off of it like an external hard drive.

        I would just use the S-Video out to a separate display and set up a two-computer ethernet network if I didn't have a SCSI machine handy. Better than letting data be entombed on the notebook.
    • Wow.. Placed Katayuri in Google and I received 0 results.. I'm shocked...

      .
      .
      .

  • SlashDotted (Score:2, Insightful)

    by oc-beta ( 941915 )
    We strike again!

  • self-selected study (Score:5, Insightful)

    by timster ( 32400 ) on Tuesday January 03, 2006 @03:57PM (#14387009)
    As much as people like to quote the macintouch surveys, they are still self-selected unverified Internet studies. As such, they are not useful for any real-world decision making, any more than Slashdot polls.

    Macintouch claims that this is not a problem, but they have no way to support that claim.
    • As much as people like to quote the macintouch surveys, they are still self-selected unverified Internet studies. As such, they are not useful for any real-world decision making, any more than Slashdot polls.

      Macintouch claims that this is not a problem, but they have no way to support that claim.

      I completely agree. This is a meaningless poll, something I've written to Ric Ford about a couple of times, without reply. The Macintouch folks don't seem to understand how to conduct a meaningful survey and don't s
    • A guy I work with is returning his G4 PowerBook because it got one of the bunk screens. I returned mine because of a bad harddrive. I returned my iMac because of a bad CD/DVD thingy.

      I've had issues with my other Apple product as well, but it may have been resolved with the latest firmware update.

      I've had other Apple owners that had fewer problems, but these are about industry standard at this time. I will say that apple support is pretty good and fast at fixing broken hardware. Most companies do not hav
    • Consumer Reports has a much better model for their surveys. Their latest report on computers indicates that Sony, Toshiba, and IBM all slightly edge Apple on repair history. They do say that overall Apple wins for support over everyone else and the iBook was the winner for reliability and value.
  • Colleagues and friends have recently had a lot of problems with new IBM portables (by Lenovo), which used to be the standard of reliability. I have been using a Titanium PowerBook for over three years on the desktop and on the road, as my only work computer, without a single problem so far. I wonder how well the upcoming Intel-based Mac will perform in terms of reliability?
    • Obligitory "me too!".

      Titanium PowerBook (upgraded to 1GB) serving as my only machine for work and home (6-10 hrs use every day) for 3 years, many trips, no issues. Probably it helps that I use a Happy Hacking keyboard 90% of the time (work and home) to prolong keyboard life, but I'm impressed with how easy it is to commute with daily and use as my only software development / writing / music server / home computer. Will definitely buy another, eventually.

    • It seems like the reliability of the original PowerBook G4 (the titanium "TiBook") varies greatly. Some people have had nothing but trouble, others have beaten on theirs for the past 5 years without any problems. You seem to be one of the luckier ones.

      The second generation PowerBook G4 (the aluminum "AlBook") seems to be pretty sturdy. WAY better hinge. Much heavier duty. Doesn't show scratches. Etc.
    • You were lucky with your TiBook. My TiBook has had a bunch of problems. I had the extended warranty though and it paid off. I had the keyboard replaced (died), screen (plastic hinges broke, way too tight, no easy way to adjust), casing (paint peeling). These are typical problems many other owners experienced (hinges and paint certainly, google for it). Apple service is awesome but the TiBook in whole honesty isn't the best reliability-wise. The new Aluminum PowerBooks (2003 and onwards) are way better.
    • I too have a TiPowerBook and have had only one problem with it, and that is the battery life. I still have all the original parts and it still looks and works perfectly (3 years later), except the battery dies in anywhere from 5min to 40 min of use and seems to be pretty darn random. Oh I did have to replace my power cord. This is my only computer and use it for both home (including many wasted hours playing diablo II of all things) and some work (I'm a developer so when I can I use my PowerBook but somet

  • How about a survey on the 'logic boards'? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by fak3r ( 917687 ) on Tuesday January 03, 2006 @03:58PM (#14387020) Homepage
    I have a dual-USB 800Mhz iBook that is on it's THIRD logic board. It's now out of coverage, so if the board dies again I'm looking at a 500$ repair, basically meaning I have an overpriced disposable computer. Guess I'll buck up for a Powerbook, or just go IBM/Leano Thinkpad, since I'm running Linux I could go either way, next time. Oh, but OT, the battery has been fine, after 3 years it only lasts ~1 hour or so for me.
    • Logic boards, and their continuing problems, were specifically mentioned in the article.

      "But by affected percentage of models, the G3 iBooks were the worst by far, with more than half requiring logic board replacements. Apple created a warranty extension program for some versions, but not all. (MacInTouch readers are still reporting newly failed iBook G3s, and the warranty extension program has ended.)"

      "Logic boards (motherboards) were the most replaced components, followed by displays and hard drives. The

      • The warranty extension has not completely ended.

        The Repair Extension covers a machine up to a specific date, which has passed, OR up to three years after the date of purchase, whichever gives MORE coverage. Many machines are, therefore, still covered, particularly the later-purchased 800 MHz machines and the 900 MHz speed-bumped machines.

        Plus, the repair is warranted for 90 days.

        If you're getting intermittent display faults and want to force a failure, run "glxgears" for a while.

    • Re:How about a survey on the 'logic boards'? (Score:5, Informative)

      by Mikey-San ( 582838 ) on Tuesday January 03, 2006 @04:25PM (#14387249) Homepage Journal
      I'm posting this because the other guy who posted with this same info was an asshole about it, and will get modded down (rightfully so).

      It's a known issue, and Apple will cover it. Here you go:

      http://www.apple.com/support/ibook/faq/ [apple.com]
    • The G4 iBooks are just as bad, but Apple didn't get a class action threat, so they haven't decided to cover those of us who have had logic board failures.

      Mine started with the on-board RAM not working, which they "fixed" by taking out my 128 meg SODIMM and replacing it with a 256 meg SODIMM instead of replacing the logic board, which since failed just out of warranty.

      And the G4 logic boards are impossible to come by... That and my 40 gig iPod having a drive die only to be replaced with a new one that came w

      • Re:How about a survey on the 'logic boards'? (Score:5, Informative)

        by Logic Bomb ( 122875 ) on Tuesday January 03, 2006 @05:12PM (#14387657)
        Have you actually talked to Apple phone support about your iBook, or gone to an Apple store? There's a semi-secret about repair options for out-of-warranty portables. The short version is that, except in cases of accidental damage like a liquid spill or drop, regardless of what the problem is it doesn't cost more than about $350 to get your portable repaired.

        Here's how it works: there are two ways to repair an Apple portable. It can be done on-site at an authorized service provider, or it can be shipped to a repair depot. For on-site repairs, you get charged parts + labor. This is irrelevant if you're in warranty or AppleCare. If you're out of warranty, things get extremely expensive. Like all computer manufacturers Apple charges high prices for parts, and service providers add a big mark-up.

        On the other hand, for mail-in repairs Apple charges a flat fee (again, assuming accidental damage is not the cause). That's right -- a flat fee, no matter which parts need replacing. This ranges from about $275 to $350, depending on which computer model you have. So there is absolutely no way you lost $1600. For =$350 you can get the laptop repaired (iBooks are at the cheap end of the range), and you can buy a better iPod for $300.

        The reason you might not have heard about this before is when you take an out-of-warranty portable to an authorized service provider, they have an enormous incentive not to tell you about it. The service provider gets a tiny reimbursement from Apple for facilitating a mail-in repair on your behalf. It's not worth their time, because they have to provide a basic diagnosis and do basic troubleshooting before sending it in (otherwise they lose the reimbursement). If they do the repair in-house they actually can make some money.

        So call Apple! Since you don't have AppleCare, they will probably charge you $50 to open a support case. However, I believe that if the support case ends with a paid repair the $50 is refunded.

    • Less than $500 elsewhere (Score:5, Informative)

      by pjcreath ( 513472 ) on Tuesday January 03, 2006 @04:41PM (#14387379)
      Someone on the Apple discussion boards pointed me to DT&T Computer Services [dttservice.com]. They charge $225 to replace the logic board (with a refurb). I haven't used them, but they're quite helpful on the phone. They also don't charge for the diagnosis. You pay shipping (there and back), diagnosis is free, and then you decide whether to pay for repairs. Also, other common problems (e.g. broken video cables) are cheaper still.
    • Probably yet another reply of "no problem here". If your logic boards keep dying, ever think something ELSE is causing the problem? Power surges from other equipment, or from the adapter? Bad battery causing shorts?

      My iBook is also a late-2002 800Mhz G3 model, and it's rock solid, if getting a bit poky these days.

  • What is this survey useful for? (Score:4, Informative)

    by rsborg ( 111459 ) on Tuesday January 03, 2006 @03:58PM (#14387023) Homepage
    From a first glance, it seemed that this survey was pretty useless considering there is no similar survey for other laptop vendors (ie, Dell, HP, etc). However, if you're going to go OSX, then you gotta get an Apple product, and if you're doing so on the cheap, then it's good to know what to avoid... and this survey gives that information, in a general sense.

    I found these sites to be useful in determining where to get the latest deals on used macs:

  • Lower Memory Slot Failure... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by bitkari ( 195639 ) on Tuesday January 03, 2006 @04:05PM (#14387067) Homepage
    I wonder if they surveyed any of the people affected by this [editkid.com] rather substaintial, but as yet unresolved issue on many powerbooks?

  • My experience (Score:2, Informative)

    by jimktrains ( 838227 )
    I have a 14" iBook. I have only 2 complains:

    1) My HD dies after almost a year (gotta love standard warrenties:-D) This seems to be a problem most laptops of any vendor, so...

    2) My screen sometimes goes green sometimes (like an overcast). This too seems to be a problem w/ ibooks (search the apple forum...)

    Other than that, I love this laptop and it has stud up to a lot. (physical and just computational)
    • My HD dies after almost a year (gotta love standard warrenties:-D) This seems to be a problem most laptops of any vendor, so...

      I've owned multiple ThinkPads, two Toshiba 386/486 notebooks and my wife owns a Dell. Never had a hard drive fail in my life...

      -everphilski-
    • I have a 14" iBook. I have only 2 complains:

      I have a 12" G4 1.2GHz iBook. I solved the Operating System problem by formatting the hard-drive and installing Linux. But the 1 button mouse is still a problem. (Unless I use an external mouse - which I do most of the time. But it's not possible in some situations.) And the support for the Airport Extreme is of course missing. (Technically there is a driver, but I've had no luck with it yet. But I can live with a USB dongle until the Airport Extreme driver
    • well, my hp was bought in the spring of 2001, has gone all over the us and europe on many trips, and has not had a SINGLE problem, so I would say your ibook really kinda sucks...

      How on earth can you be happy with something that has one major failure and a problem ? would you say an automobile was goood if only th transmission needed to be replaced after a year ?
  • I bought a PowerBook about 10 months ago. I have since installed an oracle database on it (for development purposes only), along with a tons of different programs. It has performed exceptionally. I discovered the biggest flaw in the PowerBooks about 2 months ago, when I stepped on it. The screens, while very nice, will not hold 250 pounds. I cannot believe they aren't putting 250 lbs. test screens on them now-a-days. -cardwell
    • "I bought a PowerBook about 10 months ago. I have since installed an oracle database on it (for development purposes only), along with a tons of different programs. It has performed exceptionally. I discovered the biggest flaw in the PowerBooks about 2 months ago, when I stepped on it. The screens, while very nice, will not hold 250 pounds. I cannot believe they aren't putting 250 lbs. test screens on them now-a-days."

      The screens are rated for 300 lbs. Have you stepped on a scale recently?

  • Article Text (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Introduction

    We thank MacInTouch readers who participated in our recent laptop survey. More than 10,000 laptops were logged, along with many thousands of comments.
    Survey Design

    Our survey spanned every laptop capable of running Mac OS X, encompassing 41 models sold over seven and a half years. A challenge in ascertaining the reliability of any device is that more time gives them more opportunity to break, so new devices should always look more reliable at first glance. Our survey asked participants when their
  • 5300s - never played with one that wasn't horribly broken in some way but they're Old so that's okay.

    Pismo (G3 Firewire) - built like TANKS. TANKS I SAY. Slap a Lombard power brick on them to replace the POS yo-yo (I went through four yoyos in four years) and you're ready for the bomb to drop- the brick is the only part I've ever needed to replace.

    iBooks - They seem to break easily (logic boards, etc) but I swear I'm the only person I know who both owns an iBook and doesn't treat it like a doorstop. :P M

    • Re:My experience: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by david.emery ( 127135 )
      The only thing I miss from G3 PowerBooks is the dual drive bays so I could have 2 batteries for long trips. I had some annoying problems with G3 PBs (Pismos and Lombards), including cracked cases and missing/broken keycaps.

      Its replacement, a Ti 667/GigE was -seriously- abused. We logged about 300,000 miles of travel. The latch failed twice (but that didn't affect the usability of the PB itself), I replaced 2 bricks (probably due to picking them up by the power cord) and near the end of the 3 year period

    • My (happy) experience (Score:3, Interesting)

      by MsGeek ( 162936 )
      Fewest Repairs:
      * original (colored) iBooks

      Yep, that's my Navi. "Blueberry" original 300MHz iBook. My Aunt Karen initially owned Navi, and the thing literally went around the world with her when she was a travel writer. She passed it off to me last year when she made the questionable "upgrade" to a VAIO. I sent it to the folks at Wegener Media to get a 30GB HD and 512MB SO-DIMM to bring the specs up from the 3.2GB/192MB it originally shipped with. I run Navi on Mac OS X Panther 10.3.9. It's not a speed daemo

    • Re:My experience: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by waffffffle ( 740489 )
      Pismo (G3 Firewire) - built like TANKS. TANKS I SAY. Slap a Lombard power brick on them to replace the POS yo-yo (I went through four yoyos in four years) and you're ready for the bomb to drop- the brick is the only part I've ever needed to replace.

      Lombard power bricks were recalled because there was a fire risk. Stick with the yoyo or buy a third party adapter.

      I've had very good luck with my Pismo, with some exceptions. I had a strange logic board problem in April 2001 that caused the weirdest pr

    • Re:My experience: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by dangitman ( 862676 )
      Pismo (G3 Firewire) - built like TANKS. TANKS I SAY.

      Truer words have not been spoken. I used a Pismo for in-the-field capture of huge digital images from Phaso One cameras. That thing went to the desert, in blistering heat and dust, and up Mt. Kilimanjaro without skipping a beat.

  • Apple's products have always had the lowest or second lowest failure rate. Apple has always had the highest customer support satisfaction.

    Taken from Consumer Reports, THE reviewing company you can trust.

    • Dell vs Apple (Score:4, Interesting)

      by soupdevil ( 587476 ) on Tuesday January 03, 2006 @05:12PM (#14387659)
      Personal experience: I have a 2003 Dell Inspiron laptop and a 2004 12" Powerbook. I used to have a 2002 12" iBook. The Dell had a bad wi-fi card (which was an Intel part) which was replaced free of charge, and that's been my only problem. It's ugly and plastic, but everything works. The PB has a bad modem which freezes the OS when I try to use it, the and the hard drive died after 6 months. I did the HD replacement myself. I didn't try using the modem until after the warranty had expired, and it's kinda hard to replace the modem since it's on the motherboard. The iBook had a bad touch pad, a non functioning latch, and a powersupply failure. I ended up pitching it into a dumpster. I'm going to try a Sony or HP for my next laptop.
  • This is pretty good timing since I've been looking into the purchase of a 12" iBook for the past couple weeks (now waiting another week to see if there are price drops due to the alleged impending Intel-based iBook announcement).

    Then again, I'm taking the article text with a pretty decent "grain of salt" considering what other users on here have already said - it's probably about as reliable as your typical SlashDot poll... ;)

    Nonetheless, I just arrived back at work from the local computer store (went there

  • Applecare's a ripoff (Score:2, Insightful)

    by apflwr ( 930636 )
    Come on, we should know better about extended warranties. Applecare on a Powerbook is $349. That's a pretty steep bet that you're probably going to lose. After all it doesn't cover accidents like drops or spills, which are the primary cause of laptop demise. The second leading problem is hard drive failure, which, if it happens, can be repaired by a tech for less than $200 (cost including the new drive.) Third are logic board or screen problems, which are expensive but not so likely. You may be out $7
  • I've opened several ibooks that have been the subject of spills. So far I've had good luck and only had two that didn't fully work after their accidents. The 1st had water spilled on the table it was on and it sucked up the water into the main board and that killed it dead. The other had sprite spilled on its keyboard and got in too many places and its keyboard / track pad don't work anymore. Two others that had beer and red wine are completely functional.

    I don't think the ibooks are very well designed

  • POWER CORD!!!!!!! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Moridineas ( 213502 ) on Tuesday January 03, 2006 @05:10PM (#14387642) Journal
    I have a 15" powerbook, approximately 20 months old. I am on my *3rd* power cord (with the brick). It just does NOT work well. I've heard the same complaints from friends and others. The connector where it hooks into the notebook is very weak. Even now, on my 3rd connector (about 3 months old) I need to wiggle sometimes, move it around, to get it to work. The first one caught on fire about 11 months after I had it--CAUGHT ON FIRE. The second one last about a year (after I was VERY careful with it, and actually put tape around it to hold it steady. The third one looks like it will have a similar lifespan. I hate hate hate the power connector.

    Other than that, I love the powerbook!
  • I've owned:

    PowerBook 520
    PowerBook 540c
    Powerbook G3/300
    iBook G3/800

    The 520 broke after a friend stepped on it. The G3/300 is dead, finally - I sold it for $250 2 years ago, and it died a few months ago. The 540c still works, though the batteries died long ago. The G3/800 is still chugging away, though it needed a logic board swap last year. It also has developed a wierd smell that indicates that component death is only a few months away.

    Overall, Apple's laptops are frustratingly robust. If they had broken or
  • My 2000 Graphite iBook is (fingers crossed) still going strong, despite having been most of the way round the world with me in a rucksack. Technically it wouldn't qualify as part of this test as it's running 9.2 rather than OS X, but hey.

    It's by far the most reliable Mac I've ever owned/used. I think in the last year it's needed one reboot, and that was because I did a force-quit when if I'd been patient I could have quit from within the application, and the Finder freaked. The only issues I've had are th

  • Numbers don't lie. (Score:5, Informative)

    by Ythan ( 525808 ) <{ythan} {at} {taconic.net}> on Tuesday January 03, 2006 @05:32PM (#14387812) Homepage
    I was trying to find some statistics to back up a smart-ass comment about Apple's 43% repair rate and their reputation as a "premium" computer manufacturer. It didn't work out so well.

    Instead of getting modded as flamebait I'll just link to PCWorld's 2006 Notebook Reliability and Service Survey [pcworld.com] where Apple actually remains at the top of the charts.

    Hey if I just spent $5,000 on a new computer I'd have a hard time admitting it's a lemon too. ;)

  • My wife has had a PowerBook G4 now for about a year. I bought it for her in January. Since that time, my three dogs have stomped on it repeatedly as my wife has a habit of leaving the notebook opened up on the floor. The case is a bit dented and doesn't fold properly, and two or three of the keys are missing, and we've had to change the power cord twice, but... given that we are talking about 3 dogs weighing around 70lbs apiece, I'd say its doing pretty good.

    Conversely, my wife's friend brought a toshiba satellite notebook to the house, and also made the mistake of leaving it opened on the floor. It took all of about 30 seconds for the dogs to knock all of the keys off of its wimpy keyboard. Consequently, we had to buy her a new one.

    Thus, in my mind, Apple's dog resistant keyboard lasts one year, whereas, a PC notebook lasts 30 seconds. Now I'm not saying Steve Jobs has a kennel onsite at Apple to test things like this out, but I wouldn't put it past him either.

  • Work with 5 Powerbooks and 1 ibook since 1998 (Score:3, Informative)

    by Enrique1218 ( 603187 ) on Tuesday January 03, 2006 @05:51PM (#14387956) Journal
    here is a quick summary of issues:

    -Wallstreet 250 Mhz- Display failed after 3 years, 6 months, However, powerbook still runs with an external display

    -Pismo Powerbook (2000)- Hard drive problems with noise, DVD drive failed after 14 months ($100 fix), Soundcard Failed after 3 years ($300+ fix), ATA Interface failed after 5 years 6months

    -Titanium Powerbook-500 Mhz (2001)- DVD failed after 18 months, Modem failed under warranty, Display has vertical lines after 3 years, Paint rubs off after 1 year and chassis crack after 2 years

    - iBook (700 Mhz)- no problems at time, 3 Years old

    - Aluminum Powerbook 1.5 Ghz- No problems at this time, 1 year 3months

    - Aluminum Powerbook 1.67 Ghz- No Problems at this time except for a malfunctioning pixel, 8 months

    Reliability has been improving over the years; however, experience dictates an extended warranty is a must when purchasing a new Apple laptop. Despite the issues that I have experience, I will still recommend Apple notebooks as they best support available through phone, retail outlets, and forums that will resolve any issues quickly and painlessly. Also, I haven't had a problem with an IBM thinkpad we have for 2.5 years or a Gateway that my sister has had for 4 years

  • Jives with our experience (Score:3, Interesting)

    by zygote ( 134175 ) on Tuesday January 03, 2006 @05:53PM (#14387967)
    We had at least 20+ iBooks come through our paper in the last 3 or so years and among those there were only two or three that failed for any "mechanical" reason. (Had several fail due to impact damage.) Those that died were related to the logic board recall and Apple fixed them extraordinarily fast.

    Keep in mind that these were machines used by photojouranlists and subject to a lot of hard use -- wildfires, Iraq, the Olympics, daily beatings. (One of our guys was blown out of a Humvee by an IED and while he wound up with a mild concussion and broken hand, the iBook was undamaged. )

    We've since rotated them out for 15-inch Powerbooks to provide enough CPU/GPU umpf vs large digital files. I only hope these PBs do as well as the the iBooks.

  • Heavy Use Requires Repairs (Score:3, Insightful)

    by BoRegardless ( 721219 ) on Tuesday January 03, 2006 @06:35PM (#14388284)
    I have yet to see even my Toyota not need to have something fixed after 3-4 years.

    I expect my Apple laptops to require the same after that length of time. I get my money out of them as they are heavily used and I'm not surprised when something bonks out. And yes I buy extended warranties just because of the screens and other fragile expensive parts, and they have saved me more than they cost over time.

    My Dell laptops seem to require even more service, so on a subjective scale the Apple's have about half the repair frequency for me.

    Insisting that a complex, somewhat fragile product should have no repairs in years is a bit unrealistic at the least.

  • nice data, analysis methodology somewhat flawed (Score:3, Insightful)

    by call -151 ( 230520 ) * on Tuesday January 03, 2006 @09:34PM (#14389235) Homepage
    Despite the limitations on the accuracy of the data, this is interesting and seems to describe well behavior I've seen. I have about 12 Apple laptops for student use (they develop code to run on our clusters and having their own laptops works great for that) and have had several for my own use since 2000 and have been very happy with the machines overall. AppleCare has worked very well- it's quick and effective. I used to use Sony Vaio subnotebooks, which were nice laptops and ran Linux nicely, but they were quite flimsy and Sony's repair process was ridiculous. They seemed to think it was reasonable to have the laptop sent to them for a month- being without a machine for a month is a huge hit, especially if it is your only/main machine. So for the Sonys I would wait until there were three or four problems before sending them in, since the process was a huge, slow hassle. For the Apples, they express mailed a box and you expressed it back at their expense, and they were never gone for long, and the process was very smooth, especially compared to Sony's nightmare repair process. I gave up on Sony and don't know if they have improved things, but a company that things that it's no big deal to keep your computer for a month and keep you in the dark about when its coming back isn't selling anything to me anymore. I did more repairs on the Apples than the Sonys, since I got a batch of iBooks which were vulnerable to the motherboard video weirdness, but the repairs were so smooth that it was no big deal so I wasn't waiting until there were a bunch of things wrong to send them back.

    I found Apple very generous with the motherboard replacement on our iBooks, doing several for free even after the period and AppleCare expired. They did refuse to do the replacement until it actually failed, so there were a couple that we were just waiting to flake out, but overall that process was quick and painless, so all those high replacement motherboard failures in the 2001-2003 G3 iBook range really aren't as bad as they might look.

    A few quibbles with the analysis on the table:

    1) They don't normalize "dropping" for age of the computer, so that column is essentially meaningless. The fact that only 2% of the 17" PB G4 HRs have been dropped has a lot more to do with the fact that the machine has only been available since October 2005 than anything else, so highlighting that as "better than one standard deviation below the mean" is meaniningless.

    2) There are different populations for the iBook and PB crowd, so it's a bit unfair to compare their reliability. That is, the iBooks are more likely to be used by students and the PB are more likely to be used by grownups. I think the iBooks are significantly sturdier machines (given how well they've held up to my students use) but given that on average they are subjected to less careful treatment (on average- I know some very careful students and some reckless faculty, but those are exceptions), their sturdiness doesn't show up as much in the table as a true apples v. apples (sorry) comparison would show, I suspect.

    3) As in point #1, it appears that they didn't normalize for age of computer in any of the "component failure" columns, so the machines that are worse than 1 std. dev. are all older machines which have had more time to fail, so that should have been explained or corrected for.

    4) The power brick/dropped correlation is described but not explained well. Those little white bricks have failed fairly often and I think are a significant problem. I think they don't hold up well under rough treatment (frayed cord where it joins the brick and frayed cord at the computer end were the most common problems) and "rough treatment" correlates well with dropping the computer, presumably. Certainly I have seen many bricks fall to the floor as they are dragged by their cords and repeated dropping takes it toll. I got several extra bricks to keep in our campus lab since students would often want to borrow mine after they left theirs at home.

    Those are quibbles- I think the data there is interesting. Even though it has shortcomings, you can only work with the data you have...

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