Sony Develops Buckyball Fuel Cell 188
Jonny Marx wrote to mention a post over at Digital World Tokyo detailing Sony's latest fuel cell technology, which uses Fullerenes (Buckyballs) to achieve a lot of power in a little space. From the article: "... The technology looks like a significant step in the right direction toward the development of DMFCs powerful enough to supplement or replace lithium batteries for handheld gadgets. Methanol leakage and power output have been the devilish details that have stopped DMFCs becoming widespread, along with regulations that are still being hammered out to allow methanol to be carried aboard passenger aircraft, and a methanol fuel infrastructure, i.e. being able to pick up refills at Japan's ubiquitous konbini (convenience stores) for example."
Trixy! (Score:5, Funny)
That's not fuel! That's a fruit roll up!
[if you don't get it, at least LOAD the article]
Re:Trixy! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Trixy! (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Trixy! (Score:2)
Re:Trixy! (Score:2)
He said he carries it in a pail, not a bucket. See http://groups.google.com/group/alt.usage.english/b rowse_frm/thread/7f04006c3370dd72/576fdc5b0ec5048e [google.com] -- and get it right or pay the price!
Re:Trixy! (Score:2)
if your urine is that colour (Score:2)
Re:Trixy! (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Trixy! (Score:2)
Re:Trixy! (Score:2, Funny)
Carry a fuel can with you? (Score:5, Interesting)
Realistically, I think they'll have to develop some kind of disposable delivery system, maybe something that looks like batteries, that you jam into your gadget and throw away when it's out of fuel (or maybe it could be refillable). Question would be, how much fuel do you need to give you, say, 15 hours of play time? Would it fit in one or two double-A size batteries, or would you need to carry around a jug of the stuff?
Re:Carry a fuel can with you? (Score:3, Interesting)
Most likely this technology would be rechargeable; soak it in a special bath and it "recharges". Of course, in order not to deal with volitale chemicals at home, you'd send it off t
Re:Carry a fuel can with you? (Score:5, Interesting)
Sam says, "Is it just me, or is anyone else weirded out about driving around while sitting on top of a tank of gasoline?"
"No, partner, it ain't just you. Flicker may gave me trouble at times, but at least I know he's not going to explode," replies Dusty.
Sam, thinks and says, "It's not like I'm I'm afraid or nothing, but it looks like those things can go pretty damn fast, and there are more and more of them every day. Can you imagine the things running into each other, each loaded with gasoline? Can you imagine the fires and such?"
Re:Carry a fuel can with you? (Score:2)
I'm always amused by these buggy whip analogies.
It's always so simple to dismiss legitimate concerns with a flip of the luddite name-calling (this attitude usually comes from the software people who have never actually built anything).
The automobile replaced the horse - do you have a replacement for the automobile? Could you even begin to start studying a replacement for the automobile without a few dozens of millions of dollars?
In the model T days, a few smart guys could get together and tinker and c
Re:Carry a fuel can with you? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Carry a fuel can with you? (Score:4, Interesting)
Maybe if they can scale it up for automobiles the technology will be worthwhile, but for consumer devices? No way.
You completely don't get it (Score:3, Insightful)
Fuel is the most compact chemical energy store. That's why a car can run much further on a tank of gas than a whole bank of batteries. So a fuel cell will last longer than a battery, and you
Re:You completely don't get it (Score:2)
Again, this is back to the razor-and-blades, printer-and-ink model of power delivery. I don't want to buy a gallon of fuel, or a couple of six packs of cartridges every week just to use my notebook. Assuming, of course, that I can, and that the vendors don't sell sealed cartridges "designed" to "work" only with their notebooks.
Re:Carry a fuel can with you? (Score:2)
Fuel cells, if properly standardized, would be a great replacement for regular batteries and most rechargables. Perhaps not for laptops, because the battery in there is really more of a backup scheme than anything else - as soon as you see a power outlet you want to
Re:Carry a fuel can with you? (Score:3, Interesting)
However, I can see the benefits of using them as top-up devices for an internal battery, for example you dock your PDA and it charges the Li-Ion usi
Re:Carry a fuel can with you? (Score:2)
What you want is either
a) a standardized charge(r) (like, 5V, 1A - which isn't likely to please everyone)
b) some way of hooking up some sort of energy cell in series, so you can get whatever voltage you like in 1.2-1.5V steps
AA batteries do the latter. Problem is, they don't pack much of a punch, even the NiMh ones (which you need to charge, incidentally). Li-Ion cells pack 3.6V, which is a tad much for some applications; they
Re:Carry a fuel can with you? (Score:2)
Yeah, that worked out well for bottles and cans.
Unless the stores themselves have the equipment to recharge them, shipping costs alone would probably negate the benefit of reusing a container, let alone testing them before they're resold.
Re:Carry a fuel can with you? (Score:2)
And what about filling vehicles with inflammable liquid fuel? That'll never catch on. They need a sealed, disposable fuel unit to throw in the landfill.
Anyway, I'd rather
Carry alcohol with you (Score:2)
Re:Carry alcohol with you (Score:2)
Re:Carry alcohol with you (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Carry a fuel can with you? (Score:2)
Yes, it will need to be cartridge based (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Yes, it will need to be cartridge based (Score:2)
Re:Yes, it will need to be cartridge based (Score:2)
I have one of these pieces of very low tech, and unlike a battery torch it can safely be refuelled while still burning. Now try having your only battery powered torch start to die on you and try to find the batteries in the dark.
Presumably, you would go find new batteries before the battery powered torch went out, just like you would find the fuel and refill the kerosene lamp before it went out.
Zippos (Score:2)
So do some techs that use those butane powered soldering pencils.
Re:Carry a fuel can with you? (Score:2)
You do realize that carring a bit of diluted methanol is no less dangerous than carrying a nip of stron brandy, right? (Unless you drink it. Don't drink methanol. It'll be fun for a bit, but then you'll be blind, and nobody likes being blind.)
People like you need to work on changi
So... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:So... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:So... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:So... (Score:2)
This week we like Sony?
This is probably Sony marketing 'droids putting out press releases to enhance Sony's "feel good" factor after it took a hit with the DRM crap.
The "feel good" factor is very important for most people when they decide what to buy and thus affects Sony's bottom line.
Expect to see lots of press releases masquarading as articles in the coming months about all the wonderful things Sony is doing.
---
The majority of modern marketing is nothing more than an arms race to get mind sh
More info on Buckyball or Fullerene (Score:4, Informative)
More info on Karma Whoring (Score:5, Funny)
Re:More info on Karma Whoring (Score:5, Funny)
And for those of us that don't use this scale... (Score:5, Funny)
Could someone convert this to furlongs per LoC and tell me what other competing techs like today's laptop batteries have?
Re:And for those of us that don't use this scale.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:And for those of us that don't use this scale.. (Score:3, Insightful)
And the area measurement would be odd if we were talking about a conventional battery, but in this case it's a buckyball *film*. Which really is quite two dimensional.
Re:And for those of us that don't use this scale.. (Score:2, Informative)
Re:And for those of us that don't use this scale.. (Score:2)
Re:And for those of us that don't use this scale.. (Score:2)
Re:And for those of us that don't use this scale.. (Score:2)
Finally! All the convenience of batteries with none of the hassle of not-occasionally-blowing-up.
I didn't double-check your math or read the article (I'm a busy guy. I've got Tivo-ed episodes of Will and Grace to watch. I'm beginning to think Will might be gay.), but I hope there's room for improvement on that.
Re:And for those of us that don't use this scale.. (Score:2)
If you're using a Lithium Ion battery already, they don't even have that advantage.
Re:And for those of us that don't use this scale.. (Score:2, Informative)
It means that if a AA battery was made out of the stuff, you would need 2 of them in a row to get 2/3 the power of one normal dry fuel cell AA battery. Not very efficient, and current technology means that this is not cheap.
It also means that even the worst laptop battery outlasts this tech by several miles.
Re:And for those of us that don't use this scale.. (Score:2)
A world of evil (Score:2)
If you want truely evil units of measurement, you should see what happens when the fuel cells' performance is integrated into chemical reactions--grams, kilomoles,
Obligitary (Score:1)
I'd buy when it becomes available... (Score:5, Interesting)
Seriously, this is the Sony I once knew and loved, when it did things like this all the time. Maybe those of us boycotting the entire company because of last month's debacle should adjust things a bit?
Re:I'd buy when it becomes available... (Score:2)
Re:I'd buy when it becomes available... (Score:2)
Ya think? I mean, it's like not having anything to do with Joe because his cousin Bob robbed the 7-11 and went to jail. But he's got the same last name, so let's ostracize him! Punish the right people for the right crime, or you turn into the same blind, hatred-spewing zealots you most likely despise.
Re:I'd buy when it becomes available... (Score:2)
Um, Sony is "the right people."
This isn't the case of Joe and Cousin Bob having the same last name. Sony Music and Sony the Buckyball Fuel Cell Makers is the same company.
If everyone goes out and buys six trillion dollar's worth of buckyball fuel cells, then Sony will use that money to fund Sony Music when everyone decides to hell with them so that they can keep pumping rootk
Re:I'd buy when it becomes available... (Score:2)
The parent is wron
Re:I'd buy when it becomes available... (Score:2, Interesting)
Yeah, but how likely is the company to actually change its spots?
On a related issue, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nestle_boycott [wikipedia.org] about a boycott of a major (probably bigger than Sony?) company that has been going on
Re:I'd buy when it becomes available... (Score:2)
Then you and I disagree, because I don't think they'd shape up. I think the first thing they would do is blame piracy. There is precedent for this. In spite of studies that show numerous causes of CD sales slumps including lack of good products, normal business cycles, increased sales of alternative
Re:I'd buy when it becomes available... (Score:2)
Seriously, I think that boycotting Sony in its entirety is a little overkill just because one of their divisions did something outrageous. The rest of Sony still does great things, and boycotting Sony BMG should be enough. In a company as large as Sony, there is enough competition between divisions anyway that a boycott of Sony BMG may hurt their budget just as much as boycotting an indepen
Re:I'd buy when it becomes available... (Score:2)
I'm not a good candidate, as I was already boycotting music CDs and movies, and Sony is never going to notice that now I'm boycotting anything that has their name on it, but it would be nice to hear a logical reason why that wasn't the appropriate next step.
Re:I'd buy when it becomes available... (Score:2)
MD (Score:1)
Re:MD (Score:2)
You know they're planning it.
Re:MD (Score:2)
Every single use of L-ion I've seen uses a *different* form factor. You have to buy the manufacturers' particular version of battery. They even change the type of battery between different *models* of product. Look at mobile phones for example... if you've had a dozen of those I bet you have a dozen slightly different batteries too.
With some laptops they even have a kind of simple DRM - if you put the 'wrong' battery in the BIOS won't boot (even if it has exactly the same specs).. I
Safety of Sony Fuel Cells? (Score:1)
Too bad... (Score:3, Interesting)
Rice University hasn't been the same without him. He was sort of a big deal around here.
Bumblebee will not save us. (Score:1)
So.. (Score:3, Funny)
Re:So.. (Score:3, Informative)
{if you don't get it, you need to watch Futurama}
Re:So.. (Score:2)
(And joke explanations should result in a mandatory 5 hour viewing of Carrot Top and relinquishing of any and all karma).
Efficiency? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Efficiency? (Score:2)
This is a replacement powersource for your laptop or other portable device. The purpose of these things is to eliminate the hours it takes to recharge a device. Efficiency, while a factor, is not a primary factor.
Factors (Score:2)
You're right though, efficiency is usually not the primary factor in most designs.
Re:Factors (Score:2)
It is far, FAR more relevent when we're talking about using fuel cells in things like cars. That is still a long way off, unfortunately.
Re:Efficiency? (Score:2)
That's why we need to extract energy from dirt, so we're not so dependant on this "sun" thing.
Wait a minute.. forget I said anything.
*Scribbles patent*
*Sound of footsteps, door slamming, and car starting and peeling off*
What about the weight? (Score:4, Interesting)
The article was really scant on details, does anyone know approximately what the weight of this device will be? Will fuel cells be able to replace typical LiPo batteries in RC aircraft?
PS, typing this live from my Karaoke show [7bamboo.com], stop by and say hi
Re:What about the weight? (Score:2)
Re:What about the weight? (Score:2)
Wait a minute! (Score:4, Funny)
And this device is supposed to be powered from methanol?
Only in Capitalist America would a device constructed of hazardous materials, fueled by a flammable substance be allowed on an airplane while strictly forbidding toe-nail clippers. (or did the ban on them end?)
Re:Wait a minute! (Score:2)
Sony's a Japanese company, and the article is on a Japanese site.
Re:Wait a minute! (Score:2)
Yes. [lonestartimes.com]
Re:Wait a minute! (Score:2)
Re:Wait a minute! (Score:2)
Your next rootkit... (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Hate on Sony all you want... (Score:4, Insightful)
It's funny how their media business has made alot of money, but it's also their media business that is handcuffing their electronics division from doing better. The executives then look at how well their media business is doing and then appoint the person in charge of it all (Howard Stringer) as CEO. So now their electronics business is even more screwed since they have a content guy in charge. So instead of content supporting their electronic sales, they have electronics supporting their content business.
Sony should get back to it's roots (no pun intended), and focus on innovative new technologies, and tell it's content and media business to stay out of it.
How much power does this have? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:How much power does this have? (Score:2, Interesting)
I, for one, will not ... (Score:2)
Environmental impact? (Score:4, Informative)
Carbon molecules called "buckyballs" - which hold great promise for nanotechnology - but have been shown to harm fish have been made safer by scientists.
The soccer-ball-shaped carbon nanoparticles were shown to cause brain damage in fish and kill water fleas in a study in March 2004. But now a team at Rice University in Houston, Texas, US, has come close to understanding how buckyballs - more formally known as fullerenes - kill cells and how their toxicity can be lowered in human cells.
Although the toxic nature of the carbon-60 nanoparticles may be useful in medicine, for example in fighting cancer, there are concerns that their potentially widespread use in fuel cells, drug delivery and cosmetics could mean they find their way into the environment, and so into animals and humans.
"There are a couple of different manufacturers that will, and are, mass producing fullerenes," says Christie Sayes, one of the team. "They could make it into consumer based products: fuel cells and batteries or make-up," she says.
Re:Environmental impact? (Score:2)
Lead Acid
Nickel and Cadmium
Lithium
I'd take my chance with fullerines any day - at least you could incinerate them.
I'd prefer batteries (Score:2)
Is this too complex for people to think about, as they search for the One True Powermedium? Do we have a monomania blinding our judgement, that we have to live up to consumer merchandising a'la Buck Rogers and Trek?
The only fuel cell I've ev
Sleeper Cell (Score:2)
Recharge (Score:2)
Warp and Weft Speed Ahead (Score:3, Interesting)
The buckyfilm offers a flexible material, which combined with tactile sensor fabrics [slashdot.org] and flexible displays [google.com] will make mobile computing even more convenient. With this early effort already within 20% of the efficiency of inflexible DMFCs, we might be very close to smart clothes and upholstery, integrating computing into all common devices without transforming them into "computers". That might sound pretty dull, but "pedestrian" has come to mean both "completely ordinary" and "conveniently mobile". Fabric is one of the older technologies on which our civilization is based, and revolutionized us when we became smart. Maybe its time to do it again by returning the favor.
This is Sony... (Score:2)
Whatever. (Score:2)
I'd click on her any time.
Re:Nuclear Batteries Are Safer (Score:2)
Re:Nuclear Batteries Are Safer (Score:3, Informative)
MODERATOR MADNESS? (Score:2)