MP3 Player Shoppers Guide 376
An anonymous reader writes "Says this three-part rundown of the latest DAPs "When Sony execs crowed a few weeks ago that their latest MP3 players were THE iPod Killers one thing was obvious. They were oblivious to the fact that the term "iPod Killer" had already gone from clever market-speak to running joke." Still, quite a few neat players here and I bet most don't scratch up as bad as iPods do."
Vorbis Support (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Vorbis Support (Score:5, Informative)
Ogg on iRiver (Score:2, Informative)
Also, you will get FM, inline recording, voice recording, and better sound quality as a bonus (over iPod)!!
Re:Ogg on iRiver (Score:4, Interesting)
Today it runs the open source Rockbox [rockbox.org] firmware and supports virtually every major audio format in use today: MP3, Ogg Vorbis, Musepack, A/52, AAC (experimental), FLAC, Shorten, Apple Lossless and WavPack. It even has a 33 shade greyscale JPEG viewer.
Re:Ogg on iRiver (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Ogg on iRiver (Score:2, Informative)
True. But then, if you listen to different players with the SAME headphones, iRiver scores much better. Check this 'blind' test performed by cNet [cnet.com] a while back. See where iPod stands compared to others (esp iRiver).
As for RDS, iRiver scores there, irrespective of RDS, as long as iPod does not have it.
Re:Ogg on iRiver (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Vorbis Support (Score:2)
Re:Vorbis Support (Score:2)
Just my $0.02
IAudio X5 plays Vorbis and FLAC etc. (Score:2)
Re:Vorbis Support (Score:2)
http://mp3.iaudio.com/product/product_U3_feature.
Sorry the page is mostly in non-english, but with 1GB and 2GB models, it looks great for things like working out, et al.
Re:Vorbis Support (Score:2)
Sony eh? (Score:5, Funny)
What we didn't know, is that the Sony MP3 player actually DOES kill you if you copy non-DRM music to it. Look it up, it's in their EULA.
Re:Sony eh? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:You jest, but who is going to buy Sony gear? (Score:2)
Slashdotters have to get this story into the mainstream a lot more by getting school kids to spread the word, or write your local paper so grandparents know that Sony is making evil CDs and user agreements for their products. Tell people that "Sony CDs are infected with DRM" which means you can't use them in your computer or it breaks the computer.
And I bet... (Score:5, Insightful)
This issue is user experience. You can add all the gadgetry you want, but it becomes a complex tool. People want their music device simple, easy to navigate and elegant. They don't want the kitchen sink thrown into the tool.
Re:And I bet... (Score:2)
Re:And I bet... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:And I bet... (Score:3, Insightful)
When I try to convince friends that are in the market for an mp3 player to consider something besides an ipod, they look at me funny, and ask me a question to the tune of, "why would I want something else?"
I just hope that other companies can keep manufacturing great player
Re:And I bet... (Score:5, Insightful)
This is a tiresome argument anymore. At one point, it had more credibilitiy, especially when discussing the merits of competitors to the iPod, such as the iRiver H-1xx & H-3xx line of DAPs. But with the iPod gaining first a color screen (so you can view pictures on your music player!) and now video, it is almost laughable hearing about the desire for simplicity. Apple are slowing throwing the kitchen sink into their product. It won't be a surprise at all if they eventually provide FM tuning & recording features in a future iPod.
DAPs are becoming more complex for the average Joe. The challenge, which is where Apple continues to shine, is in continuing to make it easy to navigate and elegant (which you rightfully point out).
Re:And I bet... (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple throw the kitchen sink in there in a way that makes it invisible. The video functionality if the ipod is completely invisible unless you use it. The basic behavior of the ipod is pretty much unchanged, except it has gotten a little glossier over the years.
Same thing with itunes. Even though it can do a LOT more, its user interface has actually simplified over the last few versions (in my experience at least).
I don't believe it... (Score:4, Interesting)
...a website which, when most seem to think über-long flash intros, banners everywhere and convoluted stylesheets are acceptable and good, chooses to use plain old-fashioned HTML?
High-fives to whoever designed the website. The layout is nice and clean, and is pretty much guarenteed to load in any browser. If we had more websites like this, the web would be so much more tolerable.
Sony MP3 players? (Score:2)
Re:Sony MP3 players? (Score:3, Interesting)
There weren't any on the racks, though. They were all sold.
I think we have an iPod killer here, folks.
People who think they need to carry around their 'entire music collection' are being pretty anal. Build a 'playlist,' stuff it in your player, and go out and enjoy listening to it. The only people who need to carry their entire music collection with them at all times are the homeless.
Re:Sony MP3 players? (Score:2, Insightful)
Only in your limited experience. I personally don't feel like syncing my iPod to my computer every time I want to change my music line-up. At any given time, I may be in the mood to listen to something else.
In my case, h
Re:Sony MP3 players? (Score:2)
And how often do you actually listen to all your vinyl? If there are albums you haven't listened to in quite a while, then they ought not even to count as part of your music collection. They're just g
Re:Sony MP3 players? (Score:2)
By your very admission your experience is limited. You are commenting on something you haven't even used. Your experience is, indeed, limited.
HD-based DAPs provide an opportunity to put your entire music collection on that player, if you so desire. An individual's particular music collection may be more or less difficult to put on
Re:Sony MP3 players? (Score:4, Insightful)
It really depends on your usage. If I were jogging, or commuting, I might want a limited storage flash player. I have a CD player in my car for that, and a dozen burned CDs. Yet I also have a 20gb Archos MM. I use it for a portable HD, usually having ~10gb of music on it. I rarely use it for an MP3 player. Unless I'm on a trip. Nothing sucks more when on a road trip than having to listen to the same damn songs over & over. Well, ok, listening to the radio or not having any music at all would suck more, but just barely.
Different devices for different uses. That's the beauty of Apple's ipod scheme. They have an ipod for just about every possible use, and most price points. All using a similar interface. When my Archos bites the dust, I'll most likely get some flavor of ipod.
Re:Sony MP3 players? (Score:3, Insightful)
Nobody needs to carry music anywhere. MP3 players are about fun. I think it's more fun to just slap every CD I have into my hard drive MP3 player and not worry about shuffling playlists back and forth.
Re:Sony MP3 players? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Sony MP3 players? (Score:5, Interesting)
Case in point, I spent a month of this summer in Europe, and had access to a computer twice, let alone access to my mp3 collection at home. I had about 8 gigs of music/podcasts/lectures, and managed to listen to about 2/3 of it while I was on the road (just the flights over and back were 35 hours in airports airplanes)
I also used it as a portable hard drive for my digital camera, as I could connect them directly, and thus never ran out of space on my camera (well, except the day in rome where I grabbed the wrong memory stick, and forgot the adapter in the hotel...)
Granted, this is a "once in a while" type thing, but it was worth the $400 I spent on 30g ipod photo + adapter to not have to buy a bunch of gig sticks and hope I didn't run out or lose any of them.
Now that I'm home, my main computer's m/b freaked out, and so I've been without my music collection except for the music I have on my ipod and on cds. Do I need the 30 gigs? no, but it makes this stuff a whole lot easier.
What was iPod killing? (Score:2, Funny)
iPod wasn't just providing same stuff with some click wheel. It brought a rather unused concept into masses.
Therefore, iPod may be killed by a new concept only. Let it be... direct audio->brainwave projection or audio-pills.
Audio Pills (Score:5, Funny)
Gapless DAPs? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Gapless DAPs? (Score:2)
Given that the iPod is successful because of its user experience, rather than the gee-whizz features, it looks as though an iPod killer will have to have gapless playback to even have a chance of competing (that and obviously a really to use UI). The first manufacturer to announce this should clean up the market.
Re:Gapless DAPs? (Score:2)
lame enc can put the actual track sample count into a special id3 tag but i'd be surprised if any hardware would support that.
one more argument in favor of vorbis, which has sample-accurate track length. still wouldn't bet on the few makers of vorbis-aware really making the vorbis suppor
Re:Gapless DAPs? (Score:3)
See:
http://www.rockbox.org/ [rockbox.org]
(Open Source firmware for various portables - experimental iRiver version does gapless from Lame enc mp3 and OGG). I think the Rio Karma also respected the Lame tags - it was certainly gapless with later firmware.
Re:Gapless DAPs? (Score:2)
(see Advanced->Join CD Tracks in iTunes, for instance.)
Re:Gapless DAPs? (Score:2)
avoiding Sony (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:avoiding Sony (Score:2)
Seems odd... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Seems odd... (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh, I trust Sony a great deal right now... (Score:2, Interesting)
How Sony is going to kill the iPod.... (Score:5, Funny)
Neuros (Score:4, Insightful)
Neuros? Who cares. (Score:3, Insightful)
No, people just don't care. Recording? Most people don't care. Most walkmans couldn't record, and portable CD players sure couldn't. Didn't stop them being sold. Open source? Who care, most people aren't interested in futzing with the internals. I suppose it's a good product for people who like Linux, though. So would have been an open source (open firmware?) walkman back in the 1980s. Most people
iPod Video (H.264) becomes a standard. (Score:3, Insightful)
Look at the new video formats supported by iTunes and iPod Video. The H.264 320x240 AAC format will quickly become a standard much like the MP3. Everyone is converting funny videos, music videos, TV-show episodes and full length movies into H.264.
QuickTime is now installed on most Wintel computers from using the trojan horse iTunes. QuickTime is far more popular today than Real and close to Windows Media. And QuickTime 7 with H.264 is fricking excellent. Even Sony disitributes their stuff using QuickTime today.
And you can easily encode your own (and DRM-free) stuff into H.264 with QuickTime or with open source stuff like mencoder. Much like iTunes and iPod allows you to use ripped and even pirated MP3s in your collection
Steve Jobs is a truely excellent player. This part of the game will be really fun to watch.
Quicktime on windows (Score:2)
Ressource hog, takes longer to start than an office suit even though a nagging tray process is always running, no fullscreen, shitty performance.
Not to mention stupid "register if you dont want to be nagged everytime you play a video" popups.
Even realone player is less shitty.
Re:Quicktime on windows (Score:2)
Re:iPod Video (H.264) becomes a standard. (Score:2)
-russ
Trojan Horse? (Score:3, Informative)
That would pretty much mean it's not a trojan, but something I decided to install and use.
I suppose I could have just modded this troll, but I'll be posting to this thread - the rest of the comment rates insightful, but that seemed like a cheap shot.
Re:Trojan Horse? (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe (Score:4, Interesting)
If you're in the market for an MP3 player, do yourself a favor, bend over and get an iPod. Really. What it lacks in barely-missed features is made up by style, capacity and a whole ecosystem of third party accessoires and software. And don't forget, iPods have a decent second hand value.
Not getting an iPod now is like not getting a PC in the 1990s. Sure, you can always buy something else if you want something different just for the sake of it, but your idiosyncrasy is going to cost you in the end.
Re:Maybe (Score:2)
What I'd like is a hard drive player that just accepts files. I don't want a management interface. I have a small CF (nex 2e) mp3 player that is fairly decent, and the golden thing about this player is that I can take a CF card (and reader) anywhere and load it up.
Now, that being said, for the way I use my music, my nomad zen xtra has been awesome. But again, that is how I see myself using an mp3 player. My wife? Got her a nano for christmas.
But she's also the pe
Re:Maybe (Score:5, Insightful)
The fact that you need to use an app (like iTunes) to load music onto it that you want to listen to.
To me, a hard-drive based digital audio player should be able to play music copied to it via Windows Explorer or Konqueror or whatever file manager you prefer to use, on whatever operating system you prefer to use.
Making it so that the iPod will ONLY play music loaded onto it via iTunes frustrates me and makes me feel restricted, like they want me to ONLY use it the way they want me to.
I don't like paying that kind of money for a device and feeling restricted.
Which was why I took my $300 and went with a different player. What I ended up with actually does more, as it turns out, than the iPod, and does it cheaper and it works the way I want it to.
Drag, drop, play. Simple. No annoying applications necessary, no annoying and unnecessary compulsory synchronization with my computer.
Personally, I think the iPods are pretty slick, but that one thing is enough to make me unwilling to shell out my bucks for it.
Re:Maybe (Score:5, Insightful)
Making it so that the iPod will ONLY play music loaded onto it via iTunes frustrates me and makes me feel restricted, like they want me to ONLY use it the way they want me to.
You might have missed the point of the iPod. Remember that computers are great at handling large amounts of tiny pieces of information, and great at performing rule-based actions. Managing your MP3 player manually is like editing your web site using a text editor. Sure, you have 100% control. Sure, your HTML looks exactly like you want it to. But it just doesn't scale. Have more than N pages, you need a content management system. iTunes is your content management system for music. Stop micromanaging, give up control, gain command.
--Bud
Re:Maybe (Score:3, Insightful)
It feels weird to me that you feel "limited" by iTunes. I would feel limited having to use the FInder to manually drag-and-drop files to the iPod. I like that iTunes auto-syncs my songs whenever I plug the player in whenever I add new music to iTun
Re:Maybe (Score:3, Insightful)
Both database-based and filesystem-based players are about copying from the hard drive to the device. FS-based players are great because you're not being locked down to
Sony && DRM (Score:3, Insightful)
-russ
Re:Sony && DRM (Score:2)
I prefer the term "Digital Restrictions by the Monopolies".
It seems more correct to me.
It's iTunes (Score:5, Insightful)
The iPod Killer must come with an iTunes Killer!
Re:It's iTunes (Score:4, Informative)
Note that if you do this, you will still not be able to play tracks bought from the iTunes music store, although nothing is stopping users using HYMN to remove Apple's DRM.
Re:It's iTunes (Score:2)
I think AAC is an ISO standard, so that part is not a problem, though Apple's DRM isn't available elsewhere, though I suggest DRM be avoided, even if they are the most fair in terms of how many computers it can be played on and how many CDs can be burned.
Re:It's iTunes (Score:3, Insightful)
Closed formats are more dangerous than closed source. If people care about freedom (yeah, I know it's a term that was abused by many people) you should insist on having open formats then you can use whatever programs and hardware you want.
Besides, it's usually easier (and more entitled) to ask for open formats or open standards than to ask somebody to reveal their code.
Re:It's iTunes (Score:3, Insightful)
Apple's fairplay DRM restricts their DRM'd AAC files from iTMS to iPods only, and they have no intention of licensing it, so if you've bought much through iTunes, your only choice is an iPod of some description.
Welcome to lock-in.
Re:It's iTunes (Score:3, Informative)
Re:It's iTunes (Score:2, Insightful)
Now, if we're talking about FairPlay files from the iTMS, then you have a point. But that's not what the parent said.
Re:It's iTunes (Score:2)
Here's my x86 source for it, amd64 might be on the same server, but PPC is on a different one.
deb ftp://ftp.nerim.net/debian-marillat/ [nerim.net] sid main
- RustyTaco
It isn't lock-in. It's poor competitive strategy. (Score:3, Insightful)
Did GP poster say Fairplay DRMed AAC? No? Well then, isn't AAC an open format? At least as open as MP3 or anything a Sony 'iPod Killer' is going to support. I know I rip all my CDs to AAC. It isn't lock-in. It's lack of support from vendors. And if those vendors want to steal iPod marketshare, they'd better make switching as painless as possible. Re-ripping an entire CD co
Is anyone competing on price? (Score:5, Insightful)
HD-based players are still too pricy for the average consumer. Yet the price of them hasn't changed significantly in years. Surely the drives in them are cheaper and easier to produce than they were in 2001 - so why has the price not come down significantly?
Instead, the consumer is forced to make ridiculous compromises like "will you pay $100 less and get 1/10 the storage?" Or, "How about $200 less, and you don't get a screen or any control over the playlist either."
I look over that list, and pretty much all of them, within their subclass, are IDENTICAL. The only difference is the brand name and the particular shape of the player. And, in fact, it seems like the entire industry is becoming LESS innovative, not more, especially with Rio leaving the market. I couldn't even tell you the difference between most of those.
And then people wonder why Apple has all the market share. It's the only brand name most people can name, the only one they've heard of, and none of the other models offer ANYTHING substantial to recommend themselves over it. And in the meantime, no one seems willing to try to open the market up a bit by making good players available at affordable prices.
It seems like, once again, an example of the music industry collectively shooting itself in the foot, and then whining about why no one else lives in the same world they do.
Re:Is anyone competing on price? (Score:3, Insightful)
To introduce a new player AND take some of ipod's market share you need obviously to match an ipod's features but also spend the money marketing your new player. Once in a while I see an ipod add on tv during prime time, those are not cheap!
Because MP3 players are fully evolved (Score:3, Insightful)
Screening : My First Question (Score:5, Insightful)
or connect to client drives (Score:2)
1) Connects to CLIENT Win2K; XP boxes via USB as a external HD WITHOUT any drivers
2) FM radio
3) 20GB storage
4) Battery,so I don't have to worry about getting power to "a self powered external case" when I use laptops, or older machines
5) Internal Microphone & recording capability, for when I need to verify details / have a cranky and difficult customer.
6) Marginally larger than an old iPod
what, no iAudio X5? (Score:4, Insightful)
I am suprised that the iAudio X5 [cowonamerica.com] was not mentioned: its a superb device, marred by only 2 possible flaws that I know of:
Maybe the fact that you cannot buy it in retail stores was a problem for the reviewers. Even so, video support, Ogg, USB host, full USB mass storage implementation, long battery life ... its hard not to gush.
Re:what, no iAudio X5? (Score:2, Informative)
Granted, the specs on that player look pretty good. However, I've had to toss out perfectly-good hardware before because the battery died after 18 months.
For nearly $500, I expect a bit more in terms of longevity.
In other news... (Score:2)
See, that's just as funny, right?
one they missed (Score:5, Informative)
I noticed that iRiver's line of MP3 players is (mostly) absent from this listing.
I recently got an iRiver IFP-899 [iriver.com] and absolutely love it. I don't have any particularly overwhelming urge to store my entire music collection on a portable MP3 player, so a very expensive iPod or any of its very expensive clones are pretty much overkill for me.
Simply put, the iRiver is a great middle-of-the-road MP3 player. Rather than copying and pasting the specs from the corporate web page, I'll just list a few things that I particularly like about it.
With prices on the unit dropping to almost $150, even Apple would have a hard time beating that. At $50 more, the iPod nano has double the storage but still only half the features.
Re:one they missed (Score:2)
Receives FM? Not useful to me.
Records? Nice in the abstract, but honestly I'd never use it.
Plays MPEG 1/2/2.5 Layer 3, WMA, ASF, OGG? All of my songs are in AAC or mpeg 1 layer 3.
etc.
I think a lot of people fall in the same kind of boat.
AAA Batteries (Score:2, Interesting)
Does anyone know a nice flash me
iPod killer (Score:5, Funny)
MP3 player, that runs Linux, plays back Vorbis, Flac, Speex, and of course Vinyl...
Add in a 3D 16:9 ELED screen for playing back Divx, Theora and Tarkin videos.
For navigate, throw-in a "buckling spring" scroll-wheel.
That'll be an iPod killer... at least on
That's not an iPod killer (Score:2)
Support (Score:2)
The other two ive junked because of shitty support
Tip: When buying something like this, BUY BRAND NAME, or accept the fact that it could be junk in 3 months
I'm currently using the Creative Nuvo, it has a display, custom equalizer, FM, it rips/encodes from a line in (ie. the analog hole) and best of all it has great north american support and a company name to back it up.
the other 2 players had no name companies that just re-directed you to the korean company that made the chipset
MobiBlu (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:MobiBlu (Score:2, Insightful)
BTW I bought a Shuffle-- not that it's the best or has the most features, but the refurb 1 gig models go
None have AM radio (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:None have AM radio (Score:2)
innovative, but won't matter (Score:2)
Almost a killer - Soniqcast Aireo (Score:3, Insightful)
It has an FM tuner, as WELL as a built in FM transmitter, adjustable to ANY FM Freq (not just 5 or so).
Think that is neat, that is nothing compared to the built in 802.11b wireless! you can leave your Aireo in the car, and have it sync up with your PC in your house late at night. Or, if you're sitting near a WAP out and about, you can connect up to your audible.com account and download books, or newspapers over the internet!
Sonicast is now selling a 20Gig model with similar features. (or will be soon)
The only 2 donwfalls are that the interface on the player is so-so, and you need MS Windows to Sync playlists.
http://www.soniqcast.com/ [soniqcast.com]
I personaly enjoy my Archos AV480, no wireless or FM, but It can store/play/record video, and works well with Linux, MacOSX, or Windows.
FM Radios?! (Score:2, Insightful)
I fail to see why including an FM tuner in a personal digital audio player is some great "feature." I use a personal MP3 player precisely because commercial FM radio sucks the sweat from a syphillitic donkey's testicles. WhyTF do Creative and iRiver think that's a killer addition to the capabilities of their products? Now, a digital audio player with integrated XM/Sirius real-time receiver (not recorded from a base-station), and a user-replaceable Li-ion battery pack - that'd be an iPod "killer."
Re:This is the iPOD (Score:5, Funny)
Yes, I think the iPod killer will be something twice as expensive and twice as bling-bling.
Maybe they will include headphones that glow and light up to let everyone know you are using the iPod killer. Also, the headphones will include a big subwoofer so as you walk by or at the library everyone will know you're listening to an iPod killer.
I'm sure it will come with clothes and jewelery too as you can then integrate it to your look - the goth with the iPod killer look or the nuMetal kid + iPod killer look.
Re:This is the iPOD (Score:2)
Re:This is the iPOD (Score:3, Informative)
I bought an iPod because it was the first HD-based player I'd seen which supported AAC (I jumped on the AAC bandwagon when the Ogg one was just getting ready to leave, and seem to have stayed on it). At the time, the only other players I was seriously looking at were made by Philips, and could play AACs from a mini CD. The iPod was smaller than the Philips device, and much smaller than the stack of
Re:This is the iPOD (Score:2, Insightful)
AAC in many ways is Apple's version of WMA; although technically it is MPEG4 standards-based in practice it is nearly as proprietary as WMA (perhaps intentionally so; I believe patent law is involved). It also doesn't live up to the quality hype; a 128kbps iTunes track *does not* sound equivalent to a 192kbps LAME-encoded MP3 track. It is, perhaps, somewhat better than generic CBR MP3 at 128k but
Re:This is the iPOD (Score:2)
OK, that is just sad. I've often referred facetiously to "Club iPod", but I didn't really think people were building their lives around an electronic gadget. Sounds like it is less a club and more a religion.
Re:Reality Distortion Field (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:DRM-free? (Score:2)
Re:Not Creative anyways (Score:2, Informative)
Re:The real iPod Killer: (Score:2)
that sort of ideas should only be used
on things that are sold with heavy
subventions. Though if you started the
"smash my lexmark" movement you would
probably end up with hell of a waste problem