Dell Offering "Open" PC

Sans writes "Dell began offering a new desktop Dimension E510n PC this week with no operating system installed. The machine is designed for people who want to run open-source software such as Linux instead of Windows. The PC comes with a blank hard drive and a copy of the FreeDOS operating system, which can be installed by customers."

How is this news?

[gagravarr]

I've bought 3 desktop PCs from dell in the last year that came without an OS, and with a FreeDOS cd in the box. So, how does this announcement qualify as news?

Re:Waste of time and source of FUD for Microsoft

[Gojira Shipi-Taro]

They do... From TFA:

Despite its affinity for selling Windows-based computers, Dell is also a staunch supporter of Linux. The company has invested almost US$100 million in open-source developer Red Hat and sells PCs and servers based on its operating system, such as its Dell PowerEdge SC430 with a dual-core Pentium.

On the desktop, Dell has been installing Linux on its Precision workstations for a couple years. Dell spokesman Liem Nguyen said the company will continue to do so.

Re:SHENANIGANS!

[itomato]

http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/features. aspx/featured_desktop2?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs [dell.com]

$679
After $50 Off Instantly!
Only an 80GB HD, but there's the bonus of a 17" LCD..

Re:news?

[TykeClone]

No one in their right mind would buy a "consumer level" machine from Dell - you have a lot more control over the configuration from their small business site - which is where these machines have been available in the past.

Re:SHENANIGANS!

[Anonymous Coward]

"it's obvious they're just milking this whole Linux thing for their own personal gain"

What do you expect from a company that sells computers? OF COURSE THEY ARE DOING IT TO MAKE MONEY. THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT OF THEM BEING IN BUSINESS.

Re:How is this news?

[PhilHibbs]

Because the zdnet article is badly worded, and neither the submitter nor Taco knew that this is old news. If they'd read the article as far as the second paragraph , they'd have seen that "The computer is part of Dell's n-Series of PCs, which first started shipping without an operating system back in September 2002."

Re:news?

[F_Scentura]

Let alone the *horrible* support that comes with the Dell consumer line.

Dell Machines w/Red Hat Pre-Loaded

[everphilski]

http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/compare.a spx/precn_n?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd [dell.com]

Took less than 5 minutes of looking. Hit *customize* and make it your dream machine.

-everphilski-

Re:Not necessarily "Open source" PC...

[wedding]

Part of it would depend on how you acquired your seat of Windows. Remember that most copies are OEM, and would be tied to the hardware they shipped on. In that case, you _would_ have to buy that seat of XP if you wanted to run it on the new box.

Office etc are all the same when buying OEM. We just had a burglary a few months back, and had to repurchase Office (covered, so not a big thing,) because the CDs I had were OEM tied to the hardware that was no longer in my possession.

Re:If it's so open

[grub]

Nope, and Dell lost out on a new cluster here because of it. There are 14 nice IBM 1u dual Opterons racked up and running thanks to Dell's stubborn line in the sand on CPUs.

Re:Not necessarily "Open source" PC...

[diogenesx]

If you bought a brand name computer, you're out of luck if you want to install the copy of xp on another machine. The OEM licensing says that copy of XP is only valid for that individual pc. I tried using a copy of XP that came with a Dell on an HP computer. I had to call micrsoft for validation. They asked why I needed xp re-activated and I said I was moving it to my new PC. I was told that I could only use that copy on the Dell and that I must purchase a new copy for the new computer. I told the rep I'd install Linux instead, and I did ; ).

The moral of the story: If you want to use an OEM copy of XP on another computer. lie.

I *would* have bought this...

[fak3r]

I would have bought this earlier this year, as it stands I bought a Dimension 3.2G box for less than 500$. I DID NOT want to buy a machine with XP already installed on it, but get this; it was 80$ CHEAPER to buy the same machine with Windows than a 'naked' machine with a freeDOS option! I guess it's supply and demand, but it still irks the hell outta me that I paid the MS 'tax' and continued the 'look at home many ppl buy machines with XP installed!' FUD. Can these "Open" machines compete in price with Dell's (constantly) adverstised special? If not, I can't see too many ppl paying more for a machine with no OS vs a cheaper machine with XP (That I immediately installed over - no, I didn't look into the 'rebate' - sounds like it's a hassle anyway).

Re:Pirates!

[Solder Fumes]

That would be funnier if it weren't exactly what Microsoft believes.

Re:Real news will be when Apple ...

[rworne]

They do - in a way.

Yellow Dog Linux [yellowdoglinux.com] is an Apple "Value Added Reseller". From their website:

A Unique Apple Reseller

Terra Soft, an Apple Authorized OEM VAR (Value Added Reseller) is granted a unique license to install Yellow Dog Linux on Apple computers and maintain full Apple hardware warranty for home, commercial, education, and government customers.

If that isn't approval by Apple, I don't know what is.

This is not new

[pvera]

Dell has offered this choice to volume and channel sales for many years. The reason they sell it to you with FreeDOS is because their bulk license agreement with Microsoft forbids them from selling OS-less machines. This volume option was intended for two specific markets:

1. People purchasing tons of desktops for organizations with streamlined IT management with pre-defined system images, so they could pull the machine out of the box, put the image and send it to the proper user. Saves them a few minutes per machine in setup.

2. People purchasing tons of cheap reliable boxes intended to run a non-Microsoft OS. Think you just started your dream business as a hosting provider and you wanted to buy 500 $299 Dell servers.

Re:SHENANIGANS!

[Anonymous Coward]

Heh, you think that's a problem? My last company use to include Dell laptops with one of the products as a controller/data logger and you could have an _IDENTICAL_ DELL system cost up to $200 more depending on whether you bought it through their personal/home link or their small business link. Wasn't consistent as to which was more expensive either...

Re:Dell Machines w/Red Hat Pre-Loaded

[everphilski]

Read later on in this thread. Actual cost of a license in volume is about $30. And that price is reflected in the cheap machines. (post is by Trip Master Monkey).

-everphilski-

Re:Dell Machines w/Red Hat Pre-Loaded

[RetroGeek]

Why is it that if I buy an OS free machine the price changes $0?

This is how Microsoft got so much market share. They had agreements with the HW manufacturs that based Windows 3.x licence costs on boxes going out the door.

If you sold a computer, you paid MS for a Windows licence, even if the hard drive was unformatted. So there was no incentive (and quite a bit of financial detriment) to offer alternate OS's.

I believe that this was ruled illegal, but by then it was too late.

Re:Real news will be when Apple ...

[TheRaven64]

Not to mention that way back in the 68k era it was possible to get a choice of MacOS or AU/X (Apple UNIX) on Apple hardware, and that Apple financed mkLinux - the port of Linux to run on top of Mach for running on Apple PowerPC hardware.

Seems like the grandparent is suffering from Mac-envy.

Re:Why FrreeDOS?

[belg4mit]

Because FreeDOS is "neutral". That, and it happens to be compatible with some older games Joe Six-pack might have if he were to buy this to save money.

Re:Ahh, how amusing...

[Shotgun]

Why would Dell ship any OS with this, and when shipping with an OS, why such an obscure one?

So if you were Dell, would you just stick a bunch of parts in a box and ship it, or would you at least want to boot it up first? Maybe run a diagnostic or two?

Consider that Dell may have a set of diagnostic programs that have been around a while...not real reason to change, just keep adding to the set of tests as new hardware is introduced. This test suite is based on DOS. No problem to run that on Win(whatever), but there is a porting effort needed to make it run on Linux. But wait!! There is an Open Source DOS product that will fill the niche! You don't know which distro the end-user will want, and it is so easy for them to download and install their choice since, unlike Windows, Linux installers actually work now.

I see FreeDOS as a logical choice on Dell's part.

Re:Waste of time and source of FUD for Microsoft

[cb8100]

Dell has actually offered PCs with no pre-loaded OS for quite some time. However, these PCs were not "advertised." One could only find them by searching Dell's website for the PC model number followed by an 'n' (for example, "2400n").

I manged to talk my boss into buying 3 such machines for embedded Linux development since they were cheap (less than $300 US at the time; $100 cheaper than the stock Dell Dimension 2400) and still had Dell's hardware waranty. Plus, the PCs have nifty 'n' badges in the lower left corner. And I've got 3 FreeDOS CDs floating around now :)

Re:Waste of time and source of FUD for Microsoft

[Braino420]

Actually, this price gap might not be as big as you think it is. I've always built mine and my families comps, it used to be alot cheaper that way. But with Dell selling so many boxes nowadays, they've lowered their prices ALOT, and they always have some kind of deal going on. I just recently bought the Dell SC420, their lowend workstation for businesses. It didn't come with an operating system, which is one of the reasons why i bought it, but I also got twice the memory for free and I got 200 bucks off. I just looked at similar hardware on Newegg and the prices without shipping come extremely close; prob only a difference of no more than 20 bucks.

Re:Dell Machines w/Red Hat Pre-Loaded

[muenzer]

Those are small business workstations. The machine in the article is a Dimension machine for the home user. The E510 does not appear to be offered in the US market without Windows at this time: http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/productde tails.aspx/dimen_e510?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs&~tab=s pecstab#tabtop [dell.com]

Inaccuracy from TFA

[alc6379]

The company has invested almost US$100 million in open-source developer Red Hat

This is incorrect. Michael Dell himself invested $100m into Red Hat, not Dell itself. They are different entities.

http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/05/09/ 1221229&tid=110&tid=98&tid=106 [slashdot.org]

Re:Waste of time and source of FUD for Microsoft

[compm375]

The non-Windows computers that Dell sells are not more expensive because they don't have Windows. They are more expensive because they don't have all that bundled software that OEMs make a fortune by including. Still, one would think that the very limited if any support they will offer would cut costs, though their licensing fee for Windows is likely almost negligible.