Nintendo Revolution Controller Revealed 1210
kakos writes "At the Tokyo Game Show, Nintendo president Satoru Iwata has revealed what the Nintendo Revolution controller looks like. The new controller is a radical departure from traditional controller types. Has Nintendo struck gold with their new controller design? The reviewers seem to think so. It should be interesting to see how gamers react to Nintendo's new innovation."
No doubt (Score:5, Funny)
Re:No doubt (Score:5, Funny)
Probably because you haven't played them recently.
Re:No doubt (Score:4, Funny)
Re:No doubt (Score:5, Funny)
Re:DVD Playback (Score:5, Informative)
Basically it will ship with a DVD player but need a dongle like the Xbox so Nintendo doesn't have to pay royalties on every system sold.
On a side note, I think that if any console deserved a port of Irritating Stick [gamestats.com] it would be the Revolution. Yeah, laugh now but when it actually happens...
Re:No doubt (Score:5, Funny)
My wife used the PS2, and then I came home and fixed it.
It's not nice to refer to your wife as "it".
Re:No doubt (Score:5, Funny)
>It's not nice to refer to your wife as "it".
Boy, the part that bothered me was getting his wife fixed. You could always use condoms, you know.
Re:No doubt (Score:5, Funny)
Nice Look! (Score:5, Funny)
Thanks for the new controller Nintendo!
I love the power glove... (Score:5, Funny)
Seriously, this feels like a move in a similar direction - I hope they improved the technology at least a little since then
Re:I love the power glove... (Score:3, Informative)
Scroll about halfway down the page to see the source of that quote
Re:I love the power glove... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:I love the power glove... (Score:5, Interesting)
I reckon it will work similar to modern virtual reality wands, with the mentioned sensors presumably doing a good job of finaggling the position of the wand. Note this is very similar to how the power glove worked, its just that the technology has gotten a LOT better due to over a decade of research in VR which seems to just now be poised to make an entrance into consumer market.
I've had the chance to play with this kind of stuff in CAVE and related applications, and it always seemed like it could be so much more, if only for some really solid software interface engineering...
Re:I love the power glove... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:I love the power glove... (Score:5, Informative)
How about accelerometers (Score:5, Interesting)
Rather than a gyro, how about a series of accelerometers (1 for every axis). If you know the acceleration in an access, derive it and you have speed. Derive it again and you have the distance moved.
This is much more likely than gryos.
--
Google innovative? Phhfft! This is Zombo-com! [zombo.com]
Re:I love the power glove... (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe it's just the rabid (very, very rabid) Nintendo fanboy inside me speaking, but my God, it's beautiful. Even if I find myself mostly playing with the "nunchaku" setup the article was talking about, just the idea of having the controller split up into two, independent components (one for each hand) makes me wonder why it wasn't implemented so well before. It's as small or as big as you like it.
Remember when... (Score:5, Funny)
It will be interesting to see what comes of this. Surely the Asian markets alone will create the sort of community needed to spur game development and innovation with the thing. And I do appreciate that Nintendo continues to surprise us, whereas Sony and M$ continue to offer the same old, same old. Lest we forget, however, not every suprise is a good thing (remember Virtual Boy?). I'm betting on Nintendo to deliver the same quality, innovative fun that they've been delivering for decades now.
Re:Remember when... (Score:4, Funny)
... from side to side, come on it's time to go do the Mario!
Re:Remember when... (Score:4, Funny)
Hell so does my dad, when playing MARIO BROS fer godsake!
I never got that, sometimes he looked like he was going to fall off the couch like a dog with an itch, meanwhile I'm wondering... What're you gunna do, make Mario DODGE something? run faster? heh. Not talkin' bad, I think it's cool that my dad plays SMB (to this DAY)
Two Words.... Light Saber (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Two Words.... Light Saber (Score:5, Interesting)
I agree, i read the article and really think this would work great and cant wait to try it.
Did the other people posting even read the article? Because I admit, at first glace it looks stupid, but after reading the demos (flying a plane, basketball, race car, Metroid Prime FPS) it sounds like it'd be really cool.
The FPS sounded especially cool, aim by moving the entire controller! Now all I need are VR googles so i'm not stuck staring at a screen across the room while my arm is pointed somewhere else.
could this be it? could this be the VR system we've all been waiting for?? The controller's perfect for it.... tell u what, if it is then it'll SLAUGHTER the xbox and ps3. I dont care if it has N64 graphics a VR system would be AMAZING.
just dont bring back the Virtual Boy [virtual-boy.org]. Anymore 2D red wire-frame graphics and i'll have to.... um, not buy it like i didnt the first time.
Re:Two Words.... Light Saber (Score:4, Interesting)
I used to play Action Quake 2 a lot and I was pretty much a crack shot in that game. I had very little difficulty hitting characters in the head, while we were both moving, with only a couple shots, over 90% of the time. This was, of course, controlled with the mouse.
Alas the skill does not translate to a real pistol. With my actual gun the claim is more like I can put 90% or more of my shots somewhere on a man-sized paper target provided both it and I am stationary and it's not too far away from me, with both hands on the gun, in a stabalised stance.
I find it's very easy to make precision movements with a mouse, I find it's very hard to have precision control of a firearm held out in front of me.
As with anything, I'd have to try it to see, but assuming that you'd have greater accuracy simply because you are using your arm rather than your wrist and fingers isn't a good assumption. The mouse really is a good device for precision pointing.
Heck, I remember playing a VR game at the Calgary Stampede years ago. It was a nifty experience, but I always couldn't help thinking of how clunky it was. The game moved at a fairly slow pace and that was good, it was much harder to control your character than you might think, and much harder to aim accurately. I couldn't help thinking how someone who played Quake CTF would annihlate all the VR players with a mouse and keyboard.
The VR goggles... Well that another big hurdle too. It's something I looked in to, I thought it might be cool, and maybe you could hack up UT2004 to interface with them and some kind of 3d gyro control (there've been a number of companies that have produced wireless controlers for PCs that are designed to be operated in the air). Well, best deal I could find was around $800 for what was basically a TV you stuck on your head. Didn't seem to have any tracking and resolution was low. Any high-rez, with tracking headsets I could find were $3000-$15,000.
We'll have to see how the controller pans out but a VR system, I somewhat doubt. I'm thinking we'll have to see some improvements in small, high rez displays first. Right now I'm just not sure LCDs have sufficient resolution, at least at reasonable production costs, to work for this kind of thing, hence why the somewhat reasonably priced ones are low rez. I mean if you think that a high resolution LCD would be like the QUXGA LCDs a few people like IBM and Sun sold that were 3,840 x 2,400 at about 23". That works out to 179 pixels per inch. Impessive.... unless it's so close to someone's face you have only an inch or two to work with.
Perhaps as OLED advances high-rez head mounted displays will become something that's practical to buy, but at this point, I just don't think so. I don't see them as comming down to a price where console gamers would likely be intrested in the next couple of years here.
Re:Two Words.... Light Saber (Score:5, Informative)
standards... (Score:5, Interesting)
Think of it this way, it's a pointer. It's a 3D pointer with angle information. All of the games on the PC can now be done with an even more naturally 3D controller. RPG's menu systems should become a lot more intuitive with just point and click. Click on the ground and your characters will walk over to it. Click on a menu to attack. This seems somehow more civilized than trying to hotspot around with a d-pad. You can steer a plane by, well, steering a plane, or swing a bat by swinging a bat.
I suspect it will be a little uncomfortable at first, but I remember how much my thumbs used to cramp up when I first started pressing down on buttons. I also remember how uncomfortable using a mouse used to be. If you rest your elbows on a knee this should be fine.
Not to burst any bubbles, but the PS2 launch was 90% hype and conjecture that really had no intention of panning out, much the same way that ROB the robot was not intended to be used as anything other than a way to sneak into electronics stores. All system launches are like this. Remember how the Saturn was going to replace your home computer for all internet-related activities? The PS2 had nothing like this. Honestly, I've been waiting for wand input for consoles for some time now... the closest thing was the aforementioned Power Glove, but the Power Glove really was the wrong input for a batch of games that had no analog sensitivity, let along z-axis.
Nintendo knows what they are doing in general... Except for the second analog stick and L3/R3 buttons, every part of the modern controller design can be traced back to a Nintendo system... D-pad came from the NES (and the game-and-watch), the analog stick from the N64. Shoulder buttons and the diamond button layout were from the SNES. The rumble pack first appeared on the N64. So nintendo should be given some credit. Even the Virtual Boy controller was a great piece of work... the dual D-pads with triggers were perfect for TeleroBoxer.
Nintendo is positioning themselves interestingly in this next generation. With the radically visceral controller and a slightly lower system cost / power, they seem to be going for shorter, more intense experiences. This seems like a wise way to differentiate themselves from all of the other consoles and computers. For physical games, you can use the controller in a very natural fashion. Tennis on this system would be brilliant, Golf could be great. Pool. Baseball. Burnout: Revolution. I'm afraid to think of how many of these things are going to get accidentally thrown through windows, but it sounds like a fun process of discovery to me. For intellectual games like the Sims, you have a natural cursor-style input device. I'm not so sure how the z-axis would play into such an arrangement, but maybe it doesn't have to.
And then you have Tekken and a whole bunch of other games that probably can't physically be played o
Re:That's not the point (Score:4, Insightful)
And yet, none of your non-gamers people ever told you that it doesn't feel natural to hold a controler with both hands, and then press one of 10 buttons to swing a sword? While it may seem pretty natural for gamers to press buttons to have your characters perform actions, I would actually think that it is more "logical" to actually swing your arm if you want to swing a sword.
Try going to a medieval fair sometime, and in one of those fake duels, locate the appropriate buttons on your sword that will make you swing it...
Three Words... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Two Words.... Light Saber (Score:5, Informative)
http://media.cube.ign.com/articles/651/651334/vid
For all of you too lazy to read the article, this is definitely worth the watch. For this, I think i'll finally have to break down and become an early adopter.
Re:Two Words.... Light Saber (Score:5, Insightful)
I have so many questions that can only really be answered by testing one myself. Does it have to be pointed at the TV to work? (I have read there are sensors you must place on top your TV). That right there would eliminate good swordfighting. How good is the accuracy really? Does it drift? If you move the controller quickly, or hit a hard surface with it, does it lose tracking? Does the accuracy get worse as the controller suffers from wear and tear? Does it have a limited tracking space? For four players, you would need a very large tracking space, or you would be hitting each other all the time. A very large tracking space could enable some really cool single player games, too. Could you walk around and wave the controller all over, or are you restricted to sitting down while holding the controller steady in a small "zone" and pointing it at the TV? One of the reporters mentioned that if you moved out it of a certain box while playing the demos, you would have to move back before continuing.
Re:Two Words.... Light Saber (Score:4, Insightful)
Uh... yes, they were. And then they handed the controllers to members of the press, who also controlled things.
"and those are game concepts, not actual games."
They weren't showing off games, they were showing off the controller. They were there to demonstrate that the controller worked and how well. According to first-hand press reports, they did the job.
"This type of technology has always been rather fiddly when you use it in real life."
So have wireless controllers. Then the WaveBird came out. Of course, non-Nintendo wireless controllers still have the habit of sucking...
"People's kids are going to be slamming these things,"
Ignoring for the moment the history of durability of Nintendo hardware, "so?" Peoples' kids won't be the only ones using these things.
"and it has to be reasonably cheap too."
Console + 1 controller will have a price point of $200, much like the GameCube was. An extra controller's price will probably resemble the WaveBird's.
FUD much?
Re:Two Words.... Light Saber (Score:3, Informative)
Then you'll have no objections to the Revolution's RF wireless controller.
Re:Two Words.... Light Saber (Score:5, Funny)
in other news: the wavebird is not a wifi controller. 0 for 2, killer.
(also your wifi keyboard doesn't seem to have enough fairy powder in it to type a period.)
Re:Two Words.... Light Saber (Score:3, Insightful)
I for one (Score:5, Informative)
remember when (Score:5, Funny)
They're following MS (Score:4, Funny)
Re:remember when (Score:5, Funny)
Re:remember when (Score:5, Funny)
Re:remember when (Score:5, Funny)
I think.
Re:remember when (Score:5, Funny)
Although my whole body didn't grow larger, my hands were huge...
Re:remember when (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course it's only been a couple hours since I last played a game on that system. The quality of the games still plays a huge role in it's acceptance.
Re:remember when (Score:5, Funny)
Finally! (Score:3, Funny)
Truly Revolutionary (Score:5, Insightful)
The very act of being able to control things on screen with precision 'ala mouse will finally let First Person Shooters and Strategy games be played unencumbered.
Even if this controller for some reason doesn't pan out it's 100% wireless so theres no reason they couldn't always fall back on a more "traditional" controller if need be.
Re:Truly Revolutionary (Score:5, Insightful)
Even if this controller for some reason doesn't pan out it's 100% wireless so theres no reason they couldn't always fall back on a more "traditional" controller if need be.
Or they could make it part of a more traditional controller. There's no reason it couldn't plug into module shaped like a traditional controller. For that matter, there's no reason it couldn't plug into a steering wheel or keyboard module, either.
The Revolution has Gamecube Controller Ports. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Truly Revolutionary (Score:5, Insightful)
Probably because it's the shape that human hands are designed to hold.
Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers... (Score:4, Insightful)
I agree, and I think the thing that will make or break them is the question: Is it easy for 3rd parties to develop for? The article seems to say that, in practice, the idea doesn't inherently suck. Okay, so that's the first hurdle cleared. Now it's time to see if it's just as natural to develop for.
An believe you me, I sincerely hope it is.
To those of you that get it (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't flame. Sit back, relax, and laugh.
Damn this machine is going to be fun.
Just remember, moderators: (Score:5, Funny)
Everyone who hates it is a troll, stoking their own agenda of loyalty to competing corporations. They obviously (that term is solid gold in a flamewar) only play "mainstream" titles like Madden Football or some kind of low-brow FPS, and don't know what real gaming is.
There is no middle room for opinions, and facts are neither relevent nor plentiful. Only hype, speculation, and brand loyalty matter.
Personally, I'm intrigued by the controller and would like to find a link to the movie that still has bandwidth. But half the fun of this weekend is going to be watching the flamewars between the fanboys and the infidels.
Left handed users? (Score:5, Insightful)
Try looking at it in a mirror (Score:5, Insightful)
Intuitive (Score:4, Insightful)
Intuitive controls + fun gameplay = A sure bet.
Fun and Funny (Score:5, Funny)
Demos (Score:5, Funny)
Power button not a good idea (Score:5, Insightful)
Anyone remember when the neighborhood spaz would get über-pissed because he sucked at videogames and so he'd make a run to turn off the console, and a fight would ensue?
There really needs to be a way to prevent the console from being turned off remotely, or else there's going to be lots of bruises and bloody noses in homes that house both children and Revolutions.
Stop! Think about it first! (Score:3, Informative)
Engadget has some more information here [engadget.com] and IGN has looked at some of the possibilities for each type of game here. [ign.com]. As some parent post said, a mass amount of instant unchecked emotion flaming is about to come, but before you post, take some time to think about the possibilities.
I am NOW looking forward to the Revolution (Score:3, Informative)
Bring it on please... come on, bring it on, over here.
Radical Departures (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Radical Departures (Score:5, Insightful)
Like it or not, and regardless of what you think of their consoles, Nintendo has been responsible for every single important controller innovation for the last 25 years.
The original Nintendo Entertainment System dispensed with the single joystick/button and came out with the direction pad (D-Pad) - something that's still included on every single controller design today, including Sony's and Microsoft's.
The Super Nintendo Entertainment System came out with a new four button design. However, it wasn't the number of buttons that was revolutionary - it was the diamond shape that they where placed in. Again, this exact design is still being used.
For the N64 Nintendo came out with the analog control stick - which ushered in the age of true 3D gaming. Once again, everyone immediately copied their design. And once again, the analog control stick is still being used today.
Finally, for the Gamecube they came out with the "Wavebird" - the first truly well-designed wireless controller. And guess what?
Microsoft and Sony's new controllers are wireless.
Which is why I think that this new design will work - and stay around for a long, long time. Simply put, Nintendo has never ever faltered in their controller design. Their consoles, perhaps - but not their controllers. Instead, their new controller designs are almost always adapted as an industry standard nearly immediately. What's interesting about this time is that Nintendo waited until Sony and Microsoft had solidified the features on their new consoles - which means they won't be able to immediately copy them.
It still remains to be seen at how this controller will work with the current form of games coming out. However, regardless of what you think, it IS revolutionary. It will change the way games are played, and I'm extremely interested in finding out what the games for the Revolution will look like. I'm not in the ecstatic "NINTENDO RULES SUPREME AND OWNZ ALL OF YOU" camp, but I am *very* interested in what this controller means - and excited, too.
Re:Radical Departures (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Radical Departures (Score:5, Informative)
Simply put, this is wrong. Remember Virtual Boy, Power Glove, the giant bazooka thing, the stupid little robot, etc.? Some of those were successes (the light gun), some failures (Power Glove), and some the jury is still out (Gamecube controller, DS).
What Nintendo has show is a real willingness to experiment with new controller designs, and opposed to the relatively conservative approach of it's primary competitors. For example, the PS2 uses a controller identical to the PS1 Dual Shock, and the PSP has a layout identical to the original PS1 controller except the analog "nub". The PS3 controller is very likely to look a lot like the Dual Shock.
OTOH, I see this controller as a DIRECT snub to third-party developers, abandoning multiplatform releases almost entirely. Of course, the GameCube was already mostly there anyway.
Re:Radical Departures (Score:4, Insightful)
You have just summed up this entire article perfectly.
No doubt there will be those who say they weren't actually the first. To those people - remember that Nintendo was the first company to make it work.
They key here is to remember that Nintendo knows what they're doing, they're not morons. People are making statments such as "my arm will get tired!" and "its going to limit our game control in terms of buttons!". C'mon. Seriously. You really think Nintendo hasn't thought of your thin, pasty arms getting tired?
Just look at the Gamecube controller. People complained about its goofy look, and it wasn't even a far departure from the other consoles! I ended up finding the Gamecube controller to be perhaps the most comfortable and flexible controller ever.
If you don't see the inherent awesomeness... (Score:5, Interesting)
Let's start off with the most obvious implementation: FPS. A genre that drives the PS2 and XBox (and dominates computers) will thrive on the Gamecube. Gone is the fiddling with the joystick. A quick flip of the controller, and you've completely turned around. Aiming is no longer tense; your hand eye coordination will allow you to better attack your enemies using a 3d mouse than with a regular controller (think about how many people are about FPS on the computer.)
Don't like FPS? Let's ignore that and move to a love of the Nintendo community: Zelda. Want to see Link do more than just two directions with his sword? No problem, since you will be controlling his sword. When you swing your arm, Link swings his. When you jab, so does he.
Want to control how tense your bow string is? Pull out the bow and arrow, go into first person mode, and extend your arm. Press a button to lock the start position, and pull back as far as you want.
Zelda isn't your thing? How about some fishing. A whip of the controller and you're casting off. You can bob the line back and forth, left and right.
And the accessories for the controller; you can be sure that these will be fairly inexpensive, meaning that companies can throw in their own little controller to add more depth to the game. How about hooking up the headphone set to talk to your buddies in online games to the controller instead of having to have an entire other attachment to the Revolution?
Now imagine that you hold the controller vertically. You're playing Star Fox. You move the controller, just like in a real jet fighter, and the plane moves with you.
Plus, you have a controller that is in one hand only. This means you can eat cheetos and play games at the same time.
The possibilities for this seem endless. Nintendo was not kidding when they named this the Revolution; we are on the edge of virtual reality, the thing that every geek has longed for since we saw the Holodeck in Star Trek: TNG. What Nintendo is doing is taking the big, hulking interactive setups of yesterday's arcades and turning them into the remote of tomorrow's homes.
You no longer control the machine; you control the character itself. Your arm swing is its arm swing. Your aim is its aim. As we've seen with DDR, gaming is turning into more of a physically interactive medium. With this controller, gone are the days of sitting around on the couch fumbling with the controller. Now, if not standing, you're leaning forward or sitting up straight, slashing with your might or blowing a hole in someone's stomach.
Just imagine if they put out pairs of goggles that really gave you the whole FPS feel.
I think Nintendo has a good chance of winning this round.
Fine motor skills and FPS (Score:5, Insightful)
Your fine motor skills can be trained to a much higher degree of acumen than your whole arm/shoulder/hand.
This controller may end up being worse for FPS games than even a traditional gamepad/thumbstick, but I guess we'll find out in a year or so.
Re:If you don't see the inherent awesomeness... (Score:3, Interesting)
At first when I saw the controller I though "WTF?" Then I read the article and my next thought was "well that's kind of cool." Then I saw the video and all I could think was "Wow."
I was hoping it'd be a gyroscope or touch pad so we'd get finer and more natual analog control. I figured a gyroscope especially would make something like a racing game really cool, like having a wireless steering wheel. And a touch pad like on laptops would be great for FPS games, at least better than the nubs we have now.
Re:Your arm/hands are going to get tired. (Score:5, Funny)
To soon to tell (Score:3, Interesting)
1). Wireless efficiency. The PC Jr. had a wireless keyboard. Is this thing going to work in a crowded house with lots of peanut butter flying around?
2) Durability. Speaking of which, how hard can you beat on these things? What's the MWBF (Mean Waves Between Failure) on this thing? Are people going to just wave them right into the rubbish bin?
3) Endurance. How long can a twelve-year-old boy wave his arms before fatigue sets in? Has anybody done any reasonable studies? What about 30-year-old overweight slashdot nerds longing for their misspent youth?
4) They are shipping at least two controllers per unit, right? 'cos if there's just one, then designers can't rely on the numchuck configuration.
do NOT judge until you see the VIDEO (Score:5, Informative)
* Remote control design: constructed to appeal to a wide variety of potential players
* 3D Pointing: Sensors understand up, down, left, right, forward and backward.
* Tilt Sensitive: Controller can be rotated or rolled from side-to-side.
* Buttons Included: Has a trigger on its backside, face buttons, and a D-Pad
* Multifunctional: Has an expansion port which can be used with different types of controller peripherals. Analog stick with two trigger buttons planned for left hand.
* Wireless: Totally wire-free. Currently there are no details on the max distance, source or power, or otherwise.
* Rumble Built-in. Included standard in all the controllers.
Re:do NOT judge until you see the VIDEO (Score:4, Funny)
I too am frequently frustrated by those controllers requiring after-market button purchases.
new innovation (Score:5, Funny)
Don't fret if you don't like the gyro idea... (Score:3, Informative)
So, the system will be more than capable of playing games the "regular" way. Although I'd expect that most games for the system will end up supporting the gyro in some way. I for one, am excited!
great idea, if it works... (Score:5, Insightful)
One is that the main controller looks like carpal tunnel city. Admittedly, I haven't used it yet, but it looks awkward. The wrist will be under exactly opposing strains, from the thumb pushing down and the other fingers pushing up. My knowledge about wrists is mostly limited to just HAVING two of them, but when I'm holding a standard two-handed controller, it doesn't feel like the support strain is hitting my wrists too badly. It feels like it's radiated down my arm to my elbows. And the load is shared between both hands. With the new Revolution controller, the pressure is all on one hand and comes at the top of the controller. I can't help but think that the wrist will take the entire load... possibly like a lever using the wrist as a fulcrum... against itself.
It may be perfectly fine -- remember, I'm no expert here -- but I still wonder.
My other concern is how precise and repeatable the hand-gesture controls will be. It's a really superb idea, but it's going to require deployment of sensors on either side of the TV. I wonder how well Nintendo is going to handle the gamut of televisions, from 13" B&W up to 100" projection models. Don't get me wrong, I love the idea, but doing it right, and giving it the kind of sensitivity you have with mice and analog thumbsticks, will be very hard.
If they can get it working reliably, but it's a bit sloppy (which is my expectation), they'll need to adjust game designs quite a bit to accommodate it. But it'll give a degree of immersiveness that we will love. Practically everyone instinctively moves the controller around, trying to give their character or car an extra 'push' when they're in a tight spot... making that into an actual control mechanic is brilliant.
Upshot: I'm so there. I'll buy one when it ships. Even if it fails, at least they're really doing something NEW.
Two controllers (Score:5, Interesting)
Or it could not. Of coursem, how intuitive the controls are are due to the interface design of the game. So let's just hope that game developers are able to exloit this to its fullest potential.
VIDEO (Score:5, Informative)
http://media.cube.ign.com/articles/651/651334/vid
I WANT ONE!
"Home" button functionality seems obvious (Score:5, Insightful)
Certainly has potential (Score:5, Insightful)
The addition of the plug-in thumbstick controller with 2 additional triggers increases the control possibilities, and with enough polish it seems like using the analog stick with one's left hand for movement while simply pointing with the controller in one's right hand (or vice-versa for the lefties) could be an even more accurate and satisfying control method for first-person shooters than the mouse and keyboard or DS touch screen (and certainly light-years ahead of two analog sticks).
The key with this radically different controller really is, you guessed it, control schemes. If we didn't have the position and orientation sensors, then 2 action buttons would be paltry and anemic for anything but a turn-based strategy or RPG game, or a simple puzzler or platformer. Certainly a modern fighting, action, or sports game would suffer. BUT, using the revolution controller, motion becomes much more important than button mashing. Swinging the controller through the air like the hilt of a sword would reproduce than sword stroke in the game. Or, imagine playing a basketball game where you use just one of the revolution's buttons to hold onto the ball. You lift the controller up, move your hand to make the shot, put a little spin on it and release at just the right moment... how much would that kick the ass of any other sports game?
One issue that arises, however, is that it becomes very non-trivial to port titles from other platforms. The Revolution's controller doesn't just enable radically different control schemes... it basically necessitates them, as there aren't enough analog sticks and buttons to map a conventional control scheme on to (unless a newer Revolution game were to make use of an older gamecube controller). Nintendo will probably have to lead the way on the system with strong first-party titles.
Actually, one can look at the history of the DS as a good reference point for this: in the very beginning, we had some games that were built like glorified tech-demos. They showed off the possibilities of the new interface, but they were little more than software novelties, and there wasn't a whole lot of game underneath. Over time, however, the system built up a library of first-rate ports (Super Mario 64 DS), innovative and fun re-inventions of classic genres like the platformer (Kirby: Canvas Curse), widely appealing non-games (Nintendogs), and extremely solid games for hardcore gamers where the touchscreen and dual screens are a natural and organic part of the gaming experience (Advance Wars: Dual Strike). Now, there are dozens of great-looking DS titles on the horizon, and Internet gaming is set to take off on the system.
I think we might be looking at something similar on the Revolution. We start off with very gimmicky titles designed to get people comfortable with the new controller and wow passers-by at the local electronics store. After a while, a next-gen Mario and Zelda will start to show how old-school genres can be transformed into a new, fun experience with the new controls. Meanwhile, something like Metroid Prime 3 will hit and add a new and brilliant control scheme to the mechanics of the shooter and possibly impress a lot of hard core gamers. Seeing
Re:Certainly has potential (Score:4, Insightful)
As for third party support, I'm optimistic. It won't have the deluge of stuff like the PS2 had, but I think there's enough people out there that will be fascinated enough with this device to pursue some ideas. Nintendo has been talking up how they want to make the Revolution easy to develop for, so hopefully they'll get that right. Ideas are easier to come by than budgets, so if they can make the cost of developing a game low relative to the other consoles (which reportedly cost a sizable fortune to make games for), it should be appealing for developers.
Like other commenters have noted, I think Nintendo's sort of resigned itself to having lost the hardcore gamer market. They hardly targeted it with the Gamecube and the DS, and they seem content to let Sony and MS beat each other senseless over it. We'll end up with two incredibly powerful and expensive systems playing basically the same types of games, standing next to Nintendo's more modestly priced system with a library full of exclusives and very different games. It's like that basically with the current generation. As soon as I got an Xbox, I didn't really have much use for my PS2 anymore. But the gamecube gets plenty of time, because the games are so unique. No matter how much you love the PS3, no matter how much better you think it is than the Xbox360, you'll still have plenty of reasons to get the Revolution.
There's really only two ways that I see this generation playing out. First off, either Sony or MS completely dominates the other, and Nintendo earns a healthy second place. Or Sony and MS basically split their part of the market and Nintendo earns a healthy third place, selling just as many units as in the other scenario. Basically, Nintendo is trying to set it up so that their success or failure is unconnected to Sony or MS's actions. While there's certainly overlap in the market, Nintendo is trying to escape from that in two ways: Appeal to new gamers, and offer a different experience to the more hardcore among us.
It's a different attitude. I think if MS visited your living room and saw an Xbox360 sitting next to a PS3, they'd be disappointed. If Nintendo came in and saw a Revolution sitting next to a PS3, they'd be mostly indifferent, maybe ask you if there's any good games on that system. Sony and MS are out to kill each other, Nintendo's just here to sell games.
As a designer (Score:3, Interesting)
It has hard edges. Sure it looks cool as some guy uses it as a sword, but hey real swords have cylindrical handles for a reason... BECAUSE you will end up doing more damage to your own hand with a cubic handle than you will do to your enemy. Thousands of years of development went into cylinrical things we have to grasp and hold for any period of time for a reason... example, swords, clubs, baseball bats, your dicks... Even the newest television remotes are ergonomic in this sence. Granted your standard dvd remote isn't as once you press play and hit enter a few times, you put it down for an extended period, but your tv remote is pretty much glued to your hand the whole time you are surfing so studdies showed that users wanted something that was more comfortable to hold for long periods of time.
Personally I don't think it has enough buttons... it needs more buttons to look really cool, because if it is too easy to learn to use, it just isn't a game controller.
The second handle is a cool idea and will, I assume, eventually be fully thought out over a number of years to be quite useful and full featured. As to Left handed players, I guess you will all have to wait till Ned opens his new store and starts to stock them...
From an ergonomic point of view, I think extended use will cause wrist problems as the position your hand is in when holding it facing the TV is not a natural one. I think they could have done a much better job on the ergonomics by moving away from the look and feel of the console. Granted they are part of a whole, but they both have very different uses. One is for looking good on the shelf the other is for feeling good in the hand.
You say you want a Revolution? (Score:5, Interesting)
"As I retire from management, I have no words to share. Coincidental to my leaving the company, I would like to make one request: that Nintendo give birth to wholly new ideas and create hardware which reflects that ideal. And make software that adheres to that same standard. Furthermore, this software should attract consumers as new and interesting. Lastly, and of equal importance, is completing these products quickly and at a cost comparable to today's current market. I imagine most people question the feasibility of my request, but Nintendo has always pursued those objectives..."
I've watched the Microsoft and Sony and Nintendo E3 presentations. Sony and Microsoft both repeated the same thing -- we want to be the most powerful machines, and we have them here! Nintendo said, we want our machine to be easy to play and easy to develop for.
Sony said that they wanted to be a media hub. Microsoft said they wanted to break out of the male 18-34 demographic -- right before they stereo typed girls as casual gamers! Nintendo said they had something they felt would include more people in the games.
How about the games? I own Wario Ware: Twisted. It has some of the technology Nintendo has applied to the Revolution controller inside of it. It detects my hand motions, and uses those as means of control. I also have Wario Ware: touched! Between the two, you can quite clearly see that the folks at Nintendo are playing with various games and methods of controlling them (while also delivering interesting gameplay!).
While I am male and in the 18-34 demographic, I don't buy Madden every year. I don't want to buy another WW2 shooter. I don't feel like joining a 5-hour raid in WOW. I just want to have fun. I want to be able to have fun around my school, work, family, etc. I want to involve my friends and family in my fun when I can. The games Sony and Microsoft were showing weren't the games I can see doing that for me. Nintendo's games still do it for me 20 years later.
I don't think Nintendo is in trouble for this next generation.
I like the idea (Score:5, Interesting)
You can see in the video that the guy pretending to be playing a FPS and wielding the first controller as a sword is having to hold that second one up to his chest. The experience would look so much more natural if he could move his arms independent of one another.
And I can't be certain from just these articles, but it doesn't look like it has gyroscopic feedback- like using gyroscopic inertia to make it feel like you're carrying something heavy, or that your sword has hit something, or that your tennis racket has hit a ball, etc. It would seem a must to me.
Actually, what I think would be ideal would be two identical wireless controllers, each with 1 analog stick, 2 trigger buttons, and 1 combination ABCD/D-pad (because we all know they're pretty much the same) as well as gyroscopic sensors and feedback. Basically break a PS controller in two.
Finally, we can now breathe (Score:4, Interesting)
If this controller delivers half of what the video promises, it actually will deliver a revolution in gaming. My only sadness comes from the fact that many, many people will be too frightened to accept such a massive change.
If you look at the feature list, it is everything the 'true' gamer could want.
1) Controller makes completely new types of *genres* possible.
2) Backwards compatibility with 'Cube games
3) Wifi Downloadable content for all the good games of yore.
4) The design is a beautiful example of form following function
5) DVD playback you don't pay for unless you want to.
6) Cost of the hardware is probably only minimally affected by the controller. This isn't like Sony's extra $100 (or whatever) cost to include the Blu-ray drive. This is taking simple pieces and making a much better whole.
It is *almost* perfect. However, the obstacles to overcome are not insignificant, and most are brought on by the fact that the 'true' gamer wants things that Joe Six-Pack does not. There is unfortunately room for quite a bit of doubt:
1) Studios will have to throw out almost everything regarding game design that they know. This will require an entire reworking of our fundamental concepts of gaming. Read this as "huge cost of time and money, with a significant risk of loss"
2) The hardware has to work right, and not be plagued by sensor issues and bad logic.
3) Pretty sure Nintendo said no 1080i support. This is not as huge as #1 & #2, but prices on Hi-Def displays continue to creep downward.
4) Graphics, although unimportant in my eye, must be taken into consideration. Sony and MS have sold billions of consoles on screenshots alone. The public still loves teh shiny, so we can't have any moments where people think "but the XBox makes it look *real*!"
5) Adults. Nintendo, I beg of you, do not forget us. We have loved your games for years, but we've grown together. I have happily followed you into dangerous waters before, and games like Nintendogs and Animal crossing have made the journey fun. For the love of god though, can we have some games that actually cater to adults with unique challenge *and* themes?
6) Net gaming is here to stay. Can you please join us at the table of the internets? We have saved you a seat, but you missed the hors doeuvres . It's ok though, make sure you're here when the main course arrives and we'll fill you in on what you missed.
Re:first impressions (Score:5, Informative)
RTFA. You don't use the d-pad for movement. You MOVE THE CONTROLLER.
Re:First thought was: (Score:5, Insightful)
Stop and think for one minute. Why do we even have game pads today? Because Nintendo bucked the trend of everyone and their dog with joysticks and made a gamepad for the Famicom/NES. What about analog sticks? Nintendo again with the N64.
Nintendo has made dramatic changes to the way we play our games twice now, and both times the industry fell right in step behind them imitating at their first opportunity. Who's to say they aren't doing it a third time here?
I'd tend to give a game company who's been around longer than half the population of this website the benefit of a doubt.
Re:First thought was: (Score:5, Funny)
Re:First thought was: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:First thought was: (Score:5, Insightful)
They put more thought into their designs than their competitors. For example, Sony's buttons are neatly arranged, but it takes a while to memorize which one is square, or whether L2 is the top or bottom one. The Gamecube controller looks odd at first glance, but you never have to stop and think about which one is the little red "B" button, or which is the vertical bean-shaped "X" button. And that's exactly why Nintendo made it that way.
Re:First thought was: (Score:5, Informative)
it did. why would you do this nintendo?
Now, before you get all up-in-arms about it, think of the possibilities! This article [ign.com] really makes you think of some of the extraordinary ways this device can be used! I know I'm looking forward to its release. Ah, finally some good RTSs on a console, or a shooter more akin to mouse+keyboard.
Also, the people [gamespot.com] who've had a chance to use it [ign.com] have generally come away pretty excited.
Re:This controller kills portability (Score:5, Informative)
"Nintendo has long been a trailblazer, and this controller design reinforces that reputation," said Brian Farrell, president and CEO of THQ. "We enthusiastically support Nintendo's next console because we believe their approach of continual innovation is very much in line with our own strategy of creating unique and innovative games for the next generation of hardware."
"What we're seeing from this controller is the same thing we saw with Nintendo DS," said Chuck Huebner, Head of Worldwide Studios, Activision.. "It's a system that's designed with an eye on enticing new players to the video game industry, and that's something we firmly support."
"Game control is essential - it's the area where perhaps the most game-play improvement can be made," said John Schappert, Sr. Vice President and General Manager of Electronic Arts Canada. "While our portfolio represents a full array of titles across all genres, I think our sports titles might be the first to immediately take advantage of what this novel 'freehand' type of control has to offer."
"We were among the first publishers to see the control design in action," said Serge Hascoet, Chief Creative Officer of Ubisoft. "We're excited about the new controller and are looking forward to taking advantage of its innovative aspects."
Now at this point it's just talk (I haven't heard of any Revolution Controller-specific games being announced by these folks), but if Nintendo does manage to get some key 3rd party developers on board, well, games will change dramatically! Some of the new ways of playing can be fantastically fun -- think, running down the field in a new EA game, juking left and right, flipping the remote up to do a quick jump. At least some big developers are keeping their options open.
Re:This controller kills portability (Score:4, Insightful)
Likewise, games NOT designed specifically for this controller (most games on PlayStations and Xboxes) will likely not be ported to the Nintendo console. Why would they be? They need a completely different way for the gamer to interact with it now.
Re:This controller kills portability (Score:5, Interesting)
making games specifically designed for this controller means that they'll ONLY work on this console, the game will be impossible (or at least VERY hard) to port to the other consoles,
I've seen FPS on consoles that were originally designed to work with mouse and keyboard.
You know what? You can also play them with a console's controller that's completely different (however, most gamers prefer the mouse/keyboard combo).
Same with this controller: Some games will run better than with standard controllers, some not so well.
But imagine playing Resident Evil and actually swing your chainsaw the way you want it! This might also bring games like Soul Calibur to a whole new level!
Re:This controller kills portability (Score:5, Insightful)
I wonder if, for this reason, they'll need to make games harder. It (hopefully) will be so intuitive that the separation between the user and the game will be gone, meaning that the controller won't trip people up anymore. And that seems to be where half the challenge actually is.
Re:This controller kills portability (Score:3, Insightful)
And as far as game libraries go, I think having access to the entire back catolog of Nintendo games going back to the NES (quite possibly those from 3rd party developers as well) could just be considered an advantage.
They seem pretty different to me. Here's a video (Score:3, Interesting)
While it's impossible to tell whether this move will work for nintendo, it can definitely be said that it opens interaction possibilities that just aren't possible with either console or PC gaming (which is what Microsoft and Sony have been promising). What's more, it was accomplished without getting sucked into the graphics/cpu arms race.
It's certainly different. Whether it's "Virtual Boy" different or "Nintendo DS" different r
Re:If it uses Infrared... (Score:3, Informative)
On a side note, have a peek at this comment [slashdot.org] I wrote a while back. I regurgitated a few rumors going around about the Rev controller, and the "point" ability of the contro
Re:If it uses Infrared... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:The end of Nintendo (Score:4, Funny)
Good night folks.
Re:Suicide (Score:5, Interesting)
And the reason we have the controllers we have today are because Nintendo basically invented them. The D-pad, the analog stick, the shoulder button, force feedback/rumble vibration, the analog button, these are all timely Nintendo innovations that were copied by the rest of the industry.
Whenever new funcitons are necessary for gaming, they can be easily adapted to the controler and be utilized.
Of course in a day down the road, the functions and actions in game will require for a complete and revolutionary controller.
On the contrary, I think that there comes a point where you have to make some fundamental changes to the controller setup before certain types of gameplay can be realized in a fun and worthwhile fashion. How many people would be playing Dance Dance Revolution if it had never been paired with a "dance mat" controller?
It seems to me we've reached a functional plateau with regards to the "output" we receive from video games, the video and the audio. Sure, the graphics continue to improve, but better graphics aren't really going to change the gameplay experience that much. Also, the addition of sheer processing power isn't going to add much to the equation either, aside from perhaps slightly better bot AI and more complex simulations.
No, right now it seems that technologically, the only thing you can feasibly change to produce a revolutionary leap forward in the gaming experience is to alter the way the player interfaces with the game.
Is it too soon for this kind of "paradigm shift"? Maybe, but I don't think so. Now's the time to start experimenting, when the current crop of controllers has grown stale and even the weakest of the CPU/GPU entrants are going to be capable of producing stunning visuals, and online play is reaching maturity as a standard feature.
I think this was the right time for Nintendo to make this move. Nintendo isn't shooting themselves in the foot "again". They're a profitable company that knows pretty well by now what they're doing. They've had a few missteps (all of the players have) but they are breaking new ground, and while they may not be dominating the market again (yet), they are doing something Sony and Microsoft really haven't been doing with as much success as far as I can tell, and that is that Nintendo is essentially creating new gamers by appealing people other than 19 year old males.
I sincerely doubt this will prove a "fatal" move for Nintendo even the console doesn't catch on like it has the potential to. Nintendo may regress further into providing a niche role in the market, where they can still be a "success" in terms of greatly satisfying their customers while turning a profit ... or they may prove a success on a "revolutionary" scale and be "The" company once again ... whereas Microsoft and Sony find them in a perhaps somewhat less enviable position, one where they vie for supremacy by means of a pissing contest that has both of them producing expensive juggernauts of consoles that will likely serve as "loss leaders" for the both of them for a good long while, in a battle that may leave many customers upset at their ultimate choice of a console ("damn, I'm not really enjoying this $400 toy as much as I thought I was going to!") and one company or the other ultimately losing money from the venture instead of earning it ... or not ... I'm not an expert on this stuff, but this is how it seems to based on various articles and such that I've read.
Re:Porn! (Score:4, Funny)
An Entirely New Generation.. (Score:4, Funny)
Orthopedic Surgeons everywhere, rejoice!