Is the iPod Generation Going Deaf? 632
prozac79 writes "Ars Technica and Wired News are both running interesting articles on how personal music players are a major contributor [ArsTechnica] to early hearing loss [Wired]. According the ArsTechnica article, an increasing number of people are now living in "noisy" environments that is only made worse by blocking it out with even louder music. The article also suggests that listening to music for one hour a day is considered safe. So now you have a choice... go deaf early or go insane listening to your coworkers chatter."
Every generation has it's own disease. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Is it just music players? (Score:3, Informative)
They offer really good sound isolation (I sat next to the engines in a loud airplane last month and when I wore them I heard almost nothing).
They are a good alternative to sound cancellation - if you don't let sound in, you don't need to cancel it with iffy technology. Plus it costs less than 10% of the money and gives superb sound quality (not audiophile, but the best you can expect for less than a 100 imo).
Re:etymotic in ear headphones (Score:4, Informative)
Etymotic also makes sound attenuators for use when you actually want to be able to hear what's going on. They reduce sound by approximately 20dB in a fairly linear way, which is great for obnoxiously loud concerts, clubs, etc. They're pretty cheap, too.
Re:Is it just music players? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Solution (Score:2, Informative)
I'd say, go for some sony plugs - they're really not bad, and you can spend as much or as little as you like. (I also like Sennheiser, for non-isolated/noise-cancelling headphones for everyday use, the low end stuff is great value for money, especially compared to low end crap from Philips).
Re:The 80s called ... (Score:1, Informative)
I'm a year older than you, and likewise my hearing is still intact. Doesn't do me much good though since I got tinnitus [ata.org] instead. Not in the eighties but about ten years later. There seems to be a correlation between the amount of noise you've been subjected to earlier and later development of tinnitus. If you experience "disco tinnitus" then you're at risk. You don't want to wake up one day still hearing it, belive me. I'd easily take a 15-25 dB hearing loss to get rid of the noise during the first 7 years I had it.
And on the point of tinnitus, society has clearly gotten noiser with a corresponding rise in tinnitus in the past decades or so, e.g. many teenagers now make their tinnitus debut at the movies, something that wasn't heard of in the eighties. It's the leading cause of suicide in teenagers here in Sweden.
If you've recently gotten it, don't do that though. It will get better, there will come a time when you'll think "If this was all I had to worry about, I would be happy".
Re:The 80s called ... (Score:2, Informative)
Headphones are the leading cause of hearing loss (Score:2, Informative)
http://www.hearnet.com/at_risk/risk_aboutloss.sht
From someone in the music industry, I cannot recommend noise cancelling phones or buds enough for someone who loves music and values their hearing. They are worth every penny and more. For the frequent concert goer or clubber, see an audiologist and get professional earplugs made. You won't sacrifice any sound quality and you'll preserve your hearing for future concerts and the rest of your life. It's one of the best investments you'll ever make.
Earplugs + Headphones (Score:3, Informative)
The solution is simple (but expensive) (Score:2, Informative)
95 dB is your threshold (Score:5, Informative)
Take it from a deaf person whose hearing loss is averaged as 64 dB at 20Hz down to 95 @ 8 KHz. That is the surveyed threshold for a lifelong usage of a hearing aid without losing ones remaining hearing (thus rendering such hearing useless).
Hearings is not recoverable as the many tiny cilia hair nerves gets shortened at greater than 95 dB due to excessive POUNDING of the noise whipping these reed-like cilia back and forth (tearing or cutting off blood flows) as amplified by your middle ear bones and outer ear's ear drum.
Protect your ears, take it from a deaf person. It is career threatening in your mid-life. No need to get another cow during your mid-life crisis.
Cholear implant (CI) is a proven technology, but a bothersome hinderance to those late-deafened teens and adult as they did not grow up accustomed to these CI outfits. (Doable, but takes longer to get accustomed to these CI). CI is not a perfect replacement as you would get 32 channels (more later) spread across the sound spectrum but with GAPS in between. Computer/signal processors back-fills in these inter-channel gaps (not pleasant to a true classic music afficiandos).
Keep it down... It might save your life.
Don't get hit by a bus because you're IPODing. (interesting tidbits: 422 deaf people were killed by bus.)
Doesn't the EU have maximum volume regs? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:1985 (Score:5, Informative)
The turning point for me was seeing At the Gates and a couple of other bands at a small pub in 1997 (and, I admit it, seeing a photo of Alx Hellid of Entombed wearing plugs on-stage). Before then, the longest periods of tinnitus I'd experienced were 2.5 days after seeing bands (e.g. Anthrax) in larger venues in the late 80s. After this gig, though, I experienced tinnitus for 4 days. By the end, I was promising myself that if it went, I'd wear plugs at gigs in future. The tinnitus did pass, and I've kept that promise (with the exception of "treating myself" for favourite songs or short sets!)
Similarly, once I started jamming in a band earlier this year, I got fed up with the tinnitus and general fatigue induced by the drummer's brass, and quickly picked up a pair of Elacin ER-20 [hearingprotection.co.uk] plugs. I can thoroughly recommend these for use by musicians and concert-goers as the attenuation (-20dB, or 75% of the energy) is fairly flat across the audio spectrum. If you've previously tried foam plugs, or cotton wool, and didn't get on with either, try these and a reckon you'll be pleasantly surprised.
One note though; I saw Cradle of Filth and Mendeed recently, and despite wearing my ER-20s throughout both sets, I still had some minor post-gig tinnitus afterwards that was gone by morning!
Isolating Canalphones (Score:2, Informative)
But seriously, I had mine for about 6 months now and I have to say the isolation is incredible. Baby screaming at the DVLA? no problem. Construction and train noises are also easily blocked out. The London Underground is a good test because its *very* loud - you cant hold a conversation screaming at the top of your lungs there. Here the isolation isnt enough, but all you hear is a faint windy sort of noise, which is fine.
European ipods (Score:3, Informative)
Re:1985 (Score:2, Informative)
I protect my hearing carefully now, but the tinnitus and hearing damage will never go away. There is no cure, and there likely won't be in my lifetime. There is some promising research on nerve cell regeneration, but I doubt it'll result in an effective therapy for a long time.
Bottom line: Wear those earplugs. Once it's gone, it's gone.
Re:Heh, the irony (Score:5, Informative)
That doesn't make them untrue. This isn't painting-the-edges-of-a-CD audiophile nonsense, it's verifiable through simple means.
That 'niche at the upper end of the mainstream' is occupied by companies like Denon, Onkyo and Marantz, not Bose.
Have you ever tried comparing a Bose system with anything else? You know, actually do listening tests?
Re:1985 (Score:5, Informative)
They may look lame or uncool, but the alternative to wearing earplugs is much much worse.
Re:1985 (Score:5, Informative)
Beyond just passive plugs, have you thought about picking up honest to god in ear monitors?
They take a little getting use to, but they work pretty well. The last band I was working with was a grammy nominated r&b group and with a dozen people on stage with brass and other instrumentation, it was as loud as any death metal band I'd ever worked with. Anywho, I started taking a pair of Shure in-ears with me and having the monitor guy give me a nice custom mix to my remote and this meant not only did I have near isolation, but I only needed to hear enough to keep my parts in line.
A good pair of in-ears will isolate everything enough that you can listen at a much lower volume than you would have normally (this is especially true if you get the earpieces custom molded to further isolate). I prefer the Shure's, but there are a few others that are professional range and work for these applications.
Anywho, posting this anonymously because slashdot don't like anyone that has made money through RIAA means and it would taint my future posts as a geek
Re:Is it just music players? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Is it just music players? (Score:5, Informative)
Environmental Noise
Weakest sound heard 0dB
Normal conversation (3-5') 60-70dB
City Traffic (inside car) 85dB
Train whistle at 500' 90dB
Subway train at 200' 95dB
Level at which sustained exposure may result in hearing loss 90 - 95dB
Power mower 107dB
Power saw 110dB
Pain begins 125dB
Pneumatic riveter at 4' 125dB
Jet engine at 100' 140dB
Death of hearing tissue 180dB
Loudest sound possible 194dB
OSHA Daily Permissible Noise Level Exposure
Hours per day Sound level
8h 90dB
6h 92dB
4h 95dB
3h 97dB
2h 100dB
1.5h 102dB
1h 105dB
Perceptions of Increases in Decibel Level
Imperceptible Change 1dB
Barely Perceptible Change 3dB
Clearly Noticeable Change 5dB
About Twice as Loud 10dB
About Four Times as Loud 20dB
Sound Levels of Music
Normal piano practice 60 -70dB
Fortissimo Singer, 3' 70dB
Chamber music, small auditorium 75 - 85dB
Piano Fortissimo 84 - 103dB
Violin 82 - 92dB
Cello 85 -111dB
Oboe 95-112dB
Flute 92 -103dB
Piccolo 90 -106dB
Clarinet 85 - 114dB
French horn 90 - 106dB
Trombone 85 - 114dB
Tympani & bass drum 106dB
Walkman on 5/10 94dB
Symphonic music peak 120 - 137dB
Amplifier rock, 4-6' 120dB
Rock music peak 150dB
Re:Solution (Score:5, Informative)
No. They fail to isolate the low frequencies.
Those go straight through something like a pair of earphones.
However, active noise cancelling headphones (which in-ear 'phones are not ever, despite the GP's claim) can help out in cancelling the lows.
Ear covering headphones (cans) have another problem in that the speakers themselves are not suspended, which causes problems with the high end getting absorbed by things that aren't your ears (causing strange nonlinearies).
The big problem that in-ear headphones solve is in sound reproduction. Within the human range of hearing, most in-ear headphones claim to be able to reproduce any frequency without any nonlinearies (I haven't actually tried it myself, however I can point you to studies that test frequency response that confirm that they're much better than anything else). This is possible simply because the tiny, tiny elements don't have to produce much vibration to do their job, so the inertia of the speaker element becomes negligible, and because there's nothing else to get in the way of absorbing the sound besides your ear.
Re:Solution (Score:1, Informative)
The effect on big airplanes is to reduce the rumble and low-mid roar a bit, such that I actually hear passenger conversations more clearly (when not playing any music). The downside is a very noticeable hiss which I gather is the cancellation error from slight phase problems and a system not calibrated to my own ear canal.
The most annoying thing for me is the bone-conduction of low frequency noise on airplanes. I'll be resting away and slightly change the way my head is resting on the headrest and suddenly get a much worse noise floor creeping in right when I tried to sleep.
Now I am wondering how much different the ER4 passive noise blocking experience really is... not sure I want to pop $300 on another experiment though.
Re:Car stereos + loud exhausts (Score:4, Informative)
Re:etymotic in ear headphones (Score:4, Informative)
The safety concerns are real. I probably wouldn't use them biking or around outside in a city, because you really can't hear what's going on around you. But on commercial airline flights, they are amazing. It can actually be startling to remove the earphones mid-flight and hear how loud the engines are. What's really weird is that you can indeed listen to your music at a volume that would be completely drowned out by the ambient noise without the isolating earphones.
As mentioned in the parent and grandparent posts, Because of the noise isolation, you don't have to turn up the volume a lot. I've heard a few people complaining about the bass response, but I attribute this to two effects. First, many people are used to listening to music in a way that would be appropriate for those ridiculous cars with the monster sound systems whose bass you can hear from a distance of several km. But even more important, I think the people who complain about the ER6i bass haven't properly inserted the 'phones into their ears. I believe this is a common problem. I've seen it mentioned in a few reviews of the ER6is, and Etymotic Research is even including a slip of yellow paper in the ER6i packaging now with the following message: So if you're researching ER6i earphones (and possibly other noise isolating earphones) online, and you read reviews saying they have "no bass" or something similar, keep this in mind.
Etymotic even makes optional smaller and larger eartips to allow for the correct placement and seal in ears that the standard eartips don't fit just right.
I do recognize that bass may be in the ear of the beholder, so YMMV. It's best if you can find somebody you trust and ask that person's opinion. I was fortunate to have the ER6i earphones recommended to me by somebody whose opinion I've come to trust, and I've been more than satisfied with them.
Re:Heh, the irony (Score:2, Informative)
Earplugs (Score:4, Informative)
Re:What about Bose Headphones? (Score:5, Informative)
Preventing significant hearing loss is easy - don't blast music, and give your ears a rest once in a while. It's kind of like not staring into the sun all day, but for your ears.
Re:Actual causes of hearing loss; you==misinforme (Score:3, Informative)
Take a course in biology and you'll learn that high-frequency noises are indeed related to loss of hearing.
The cochlea (inner ear) uses tiny "hair cells" to "catch" sounds (vibrations) and transform them into a signal that the auditory nerve can get to the brain. Different lengths of hair cells catch different wavelength of sound. Higher frequency noises (shorter wavelength) are caught by the shorter hair cells.
Those cells being shorter (thus smaller), they are somehow more fragile than their longer counterparts, so they are the first ones to die with age / hearing of loud noises.
Loss of hearing happens usually with the higher-frequency noises first, because of the reason stated above. This is the reason why old people have a hard time understanding what women say (higher-pitched voice) while being able to hear men much better (lower-pitched voice, higher chance that hair-cells for that frequency are still alive).
High-frequency noises will always be the firsts to go when going partially deaf. They all go eventually though. Higher wave amplitude (volume) will make that happen sooner. Canceling out low and mid frequency noises will keep some hair cells from being hurt, but if the high-frequency sounds still go through, short hair cells still get hurt.
Linky [reference.com]
Linky [gsu.edu]
Linky [www.vimm.it]
Re:What about Bose Headphones? (Score:3, Informative)
The cochlea is a waveguide - incoming sounds launch a wave along the basilar membrane. This wave is dispersive, meaning that at a given location, low frequency energy travels more quickly than high frequency energy. For energy at a given frequency, the wave slows down as it travels until it reaches a "characteristic place". At the same time, the amplitude of vibration increases. The characteristic place is defined as the location where the amplitude of vibration peaks; for a given location, the frequency that causes the largest vibration is called the "best frequency" for that place. At the best frequency, the cochlea is locally resonant, and energy is shunted through the basilar membrane. As a result, the energy at a given frequency does not propagate significantly beyond the characteristic place (this is equivalent to saying that the wave speed decreases to zero near the characteristic place).
The cochlea is tonotopically organized, so that more basal locations (near where the stapes inserts) have high best frequencies, and the best frequency decreases systematically with position as you move apically. As a consequence, high-frequency sound energy that enters the cochlea is shunted through the basilar membrane at a basal location, and does not propagate further into the cochlea. Low frequency energy, in contrast, propagates as a wave along the basilar membrane to the apical region of the cochlea. In other words, high-frequency sounds only vibrate the most basal part of the cochlea, whereas low-frequency sounds vibrate the entire cochlea.
For more information on the cochlear traveling wave, read the classic papers by Georg von Bekesy, who won the Nobel prize for discovering it. You might also want to look at some of the early computational models by Zwislocki and/or de Boer. For a more introductory description, I recommend chapter 5 of Geisler's "From Sound To Synapse", or Patuzzi's chapter in the book "The Cochlea".
Re:Probably not (Score:2, Informative)
The "cancelling" noise is basically a phase inverted replica of the incoming noise. It's like total destructive interference on the sound... as much as possible anyway.
Re:Noise Cancellation? Pink Noise is Better (Score:3, Informative)