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Handhelds Hardware

Pocket PC vs. Palm Showdown 295

Posted by timothy from the but-but-but-zaurus dept.
Espectr0 writes "TuxTops has a small review comparing the Pocket PC handhelds against the Palm ones (no pun intended), with advantages and disadvantages of each. The conclusion? If you are after gaming, multimedia, good WiFi+Bluetooth support, a lot of accessories and versatility, go with Pocket PC. If you are after small and stylish devices with good battery life, simple interface and simple PIM apps, go with PalmOS."
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Pocket PC vs. Palm Showdown More

Pocket PC vs. Palm Showdown

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  • Alternate conclusion (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Mwongozi ( 176765 ) <slashthree AT davidglover DOT org> on Sunday July 10, 2005 @12:43PM (#13027206) Homepage
    If you are after gaming, multimedia, good WiFi+Bluetooth support, a lot of accessories and versatility, go with a Sony PSP, surely.

    I prefer my organisers to be good at organising, which is why mine runs PalmOS.

    • Re:Alternate conclusion (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Jeff DeMaagd ( 2015 ) on Sunday July 10, 2005 @01:06PM (#13027343) Homepage Journal
      I bought a Tapwave a few weeks ago, which is PalmOS based. For me, it is primarily an organizer, but the multimedia capabilities, and dual SD card slots are a very nice added bonus. The audio playback needs serious help, there is no indicator of how far into a track the player is, no easy way to "scrub" to a particular time index. It has / can play some games too. The solitaire game showed me that a stylus can be a useful game control method.

      I would consider the PSP to be a game machine that happens to do multimedia. In my opinion, the UMD drive is useless for personal multimedia as there is no way to make our own discs making the drive dead weight for multimedia other than officially licenced and too-expensive movie discs. The MS Duo cards are needlessly expensive too.
    • So how easy is it to input data/type via a virtual keyboard? I would think that it's slower than using a touchscreen interface with a virtual keyboard (PPC).

    • Re:Alternate conclusion (Score:5, Informative)

      by MyLongNickName ( 822545 ) on Sunday July 10, 2005 @01:24PM (#13027433) Journal
      I stopped using my Palm within six months of buying it. I've been using my Pocket PC for two years. Why did I stick with the Pocket PC? I use Outlook exclusively for scheduling, task tracking and contact gathering, and the Pocket PC works really well with it.

      And the fact that I can write programs for it without having to learn another programming language is a very nice bonus.

      So, if you are insuating that the Pocket PC is NOT useful for organizing, you are misinformed.
      • Probably the main reason why I quit using my Pocket PC device, and went back to using a Palm (bought a new one for that purpose) is Outlook. I use Outlook at work, but prefer not to be forced to install a personal copy on my machine at home. The Palm Desktop has all the 'Outlook' features I need personally, and is a stand-alone application, not a gargantuan octopus reaching into all areas of my machine.

        That said, I (obviously) don't use my Palm for work-related info, just my personal contacts, calendar,
        • I tired and only had problems. Too many items that worked on the Palm did not in Outlook. Too many things that worked in Outlook did not work with the Palm. But if you are happy with the Palm, go for it. I'm happy with the Pocket PC and won't swap it for anything.

    • Re:Alternate conclusion (Score:5, Interesting)

      by nxtw ( 866177 ) on Sunday July 10, 2005 @01:25PM (#13027436)
      Well, the PSP locks you into MPEG4 and Sony's Memory Stick crap. And it definitely doesn't have good WiFi/Bluetooth support...

      I don't even consider my Pocket PC an organizer; I consider it a pocket computer. It has excellent WiFi support; I can access my IMAP4 mailbox, most websites (with Flash support), IRC, AIM, and stream audio. Pocket PCs have been capable of doing all of these things for quite some time. I can also multitask. I have MiniStumbler on it, the pocket version of NetStumbler.

      If you want an organizer, a cheap Palm will work. But if you buy a Pocket PC because it is actually a portable device that does many things a PC can, then you definitely don't want a Palm.

      • I'm on my second Palm (a Zire 71 now). I don't use it for email or web browsing now because this model isn't great for WiFi. But I have done both with it on dialup and it does work. I'd still rather have a full keyboard and large screen.

        On my Palm, I keep my non-work calendar, read ebooks, listen to MP3s, edit text files and play games. I regularly hand it to my kids to keep them occupied for 10 minutes or so (the older one with games, the younger one with a rip of a Sesame Street video). I keep a l

    • Switch? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by tyler_larson ( 558763 ) on Sunday July 10, 2005 @02:06PM (#13027627) Homepage
      I've been a Palm person myself: I owned the Pilot 5000 Professional (back when it was USRobotics--still works), the Palm III (from 3Com), the Palm Vx, the Palm m505, a Toshiba PocketPC (kept it only 2 months), the Palm Tungsten T, the Palm Tungsten W, and now own an HP rx3715 iPAQ.

      Interestingly enough, I like the HP a lot more than the equivalently price Palm. The hardware speed has finally caught up to the software, and all those "cool features" like handwriting recognition finally actually work well enough to be useful. Palms have gotten larger, and PocketPCs have gotten smaller, so size is no longer an issue for me. For the first time, I've found that I can be as productive with my iPAQ as I can with a similar Palm device.

      I picked the iPAQ because the competitors in the Palm arena have gotten just too expensive for the features when compared to PocketPCs. And until the situation improves for Palm, I'm sticking with what I've got.

      • After a Palm 3, Palm 5, Palm 515, and now a (Palm-OS) Sony Clie, I am planning to switch as well. The sophistication of the devices has outgrown the Palm OS. I want memory protection instead of resets all the time. I want a more general purpose, hackable device; my orphaned Clie requires odd, scarcely documented APIs that aren't even standard between my Clie and other PalmOS devices.

  • Overrated (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I had a very nice $600 pocket pc - the Cassiopeia. It was (and still is) a great device. Why do I now own a palm device? I got tired of Microsoft and its obsession with digital rights management schemes - for ebooks, for music, for video - you name it.

    • Re:Overrated (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Locutus ( 9039 )
      Never owned a WinCE device but have and use a Zaurus. I classify that as a pocketPC( not PocketPC(tm) ) and still find the ease-of-use provided by my Palm the best for PIM functionality. There's enough there to enable a good amount of usefull utilities/addons too.

      IMO, the GUI's used in the pocketPC world just add too many clicks/taps to the system. Not to mention taking up valuable screen space. For instance, WTF is with having a titlebar? I still use the Zaurus for engineering work( mobile device programm

  • Security? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by bill_mcgonigle ( 4333 ) * on Sunday July 10, 2005 @12:44PM (#13027213) Homepage Journal
    And what if you care about security? What's the state of virus/anti-virus (and worms, trojans, etc) on both platforms?
    • Don't know how good the security is, but I've used two palms (IIIc, no network connectivity), and a Treo 650, and I've never gotten a single piece of malware. So either it has good security, or not a large enough number of targets to infect to make it worthwhile writing malware.

    • Re:Security? (Score:4, Informative)

      by Tx ( 96709 ) on Sunday July 10, 2005 @01:06PM (#13027345) Journal
      As far as I've heard, there is one known proof of concept virus for the Pocket PC, and none seen in the wild. It's not something I worry about at the moment, although I'd guess it'll become a problem on Pocket PC before it's a problem on Palm.

    • Re:Security? (Score:3, Insightful)

      by anthony_dipierro ( 543308 )
      It's completely equivalent. If you install bad software, your PDA will do bad things. If you don't, it won't.
      • It's completely equivalent. If you install bad software, your PDA will do bad things. If you don't, it won't.

        So there are no network-attack vectors for either platform? That sounds hard to believe.

        Doesn't WinCE participate in UPNP and such?

  • Meh? (Score:5, Funny)

    by mister_llah ( 891540 ) on Sunday July 10, 2005 @12:44PM (#13027214) Homepage Journal
    In my opinion, people should just get bigger pockets and buy a laptop...

    • Re:Meh? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by colmore ( 56499 ) on Sunday July 10, 2005 @12:52PM (#13027259) Journal
      http://store.shopfujitsu.com/fpc/Ecommerce/buildse riesbean.do?series=P7D [shopfujitsu.com]

      Your suggestion isn't really that far-fetched. Personally I can't see going with a PocketPC, they can do a whole lot, but they're kind of clunky to use. I'd go for an ultraportable laptop over one of those (better Linux support as well...)

      However, you can have my Palm V when you pry it from my cold dead fingers. They need to just do an update on that model. Same screen (at least keep it legible-anywhere green & black) a bit more storage and power, and wireless.
      • Actually, as much as I was also trying to be funny, my point was quite similar to what you've just said (not the Palm V part ;) ) ...

        For all you'd pay for the latest and greatest Palms and Pockets... save a little more and get a laptop...

        I have a palm and a laptop... the laptop goes everywhere with me... (and I walk everywhere, I have a lovely backpack for it) ... so I wait a little longer on boot up (ack! 30 seconds of my life gone! ahhhh!), its not like I need to see my schedule *RIGHT NOW*... its just

      • Re:Meh? (Score:3, Interesting)

        by biglig2 ( 89374 )
        Ah, the dilemma, use my mod points or post?

        Anyway, you've hit on one of the things that baffles me most about PalmOne's current strategy. The Palm V form factor is the best that anyone has come up with for a PDA, without question. so how come Palm, and for that matter anyone else, don't make a unit that shape and size any more?
        • how come Palm, and for that matter anyone else, don't make a unit that shape and size any more?

          Because it didn't sell as well as it could have.

          Not to mention that the Palm V shape isn't really all that great--it's too squarish, with a lot of unneeded horizontal area.

          OTOH, a Palm V-shaped palm with a 5-way navigator, 320x480 screen, and some more add-ons would be interesting.

    • Re:Meh? (Score:2, Informative)

      by Nazadus ( 605794 )
      While I realize you are joking, the most biggest problem with laptop's is that it takes too long turning them off and on (even with hibernate). I've been looking into a PDA again lately (my last one was a Zaurus -- my mistake was wanting something to tweak instead of getting something that Just Works (TM)). Laptop's don't have writting recogniztion built-in. Zaurus had it, but It Sucked Badly (TM), especially with my nasty handwritting (but IPAQ seemed to recognize most of my stuff). Laptop's can't be wo
      • I wasn't joking, I just said my point in a funny way...

        ===

        I haven't use any of the top of the line PDAs, so I don't know an amazing amount on their capabilities, but there should be a way to wake a laptop without pushing power... (there has to be some that will WakeOnLAN) ...

        They do take longer to go on and off... but its not like it takes very long at all... (especially depending on the OS you are running)

        ===

        As for the writing recognition, this is definately true, you'd need to buy a pad and software
      • Hiberate (if you're talking Windows- dunno what's on a Mac) isn't really meant to be a super-quick way to turn off your laptop, because it writes all of your memory to the hard drive. Standby is for people who want to turn a laptop off quickly...yeah, it doesn't eliminate power consumption, but I've left my computer on standby for days and have lost hardly any power.

    • Re:Meh? (Score:2)

      by fm6 ( 162816 )
      Thus crossing the line between "geek" and "dork"...
  • I know it matters to technical people. The last cell phone I bought had Windows CE on it so I could write programs for it. But to the average consumer, are they really going to look at a list of OS qualities like that and make a purchase decision?
    It was one thing when the OS was the product -- like in a PDA. But not now. Now the OS is just an add-on. What with these OSs in cars, phones, refrigerators, etc -- is the average consumer not going to buy a Lexus because of concerns with the OS?

    Surf's Up, Dude [whattofix.com]
    • You're right, non-technical people don't care about OSs. But Slashdot isn't for non-technical people, is it?

    • Re:Does the OS Matter? (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Locutus ( 9039 )
      "is the average consumer not going to buy a Lexus because of conerns with the OS?"

      THEY SHOULD IF THAT OS IS WINDOWS! But Toyota would not be so stupid as to use Windows in the first place. Other auto manufacturers have not been so smart.

      When the OS is known to stop/crash on a regular basis, would YOU purchase a car fully controlled by an OS from Microsoft? Didn't BMW try this and then had so many problems they publicly stated that they intended to put iDrive on GNU/Linux? And, it was going into ALL the ot
  • If you are after small and stylish devices with good battery life, simple interface and simple PIM apps, go with PalmOS.

    If you're still undecided between a Pocket PC and a Palm, consider that PalmOS isn't made by Microsoft.
  • I've used palm for over 6 years, and I've been very happy. At first, I used a palm IIIc, and I just upgraded to a treo 650. They are great devices, very fast, and it does everything I need. Sure, it doesn't play 3D games, but there are a host of products out there, both games and productivity based... and contrary to what the article says, the palm is very stable.

    Although they don't have OS level memory protection, I had my palm IIIc (excepting one program) crash twice in four years, and once I got my treo setup, it crashes very rarely (once a month, at most). I've NEVER had the palm crash in Palm's own applications. If a program has a serious flaw, it WILL restart the palm.

    Honestly, the OS restarting on an application crash isn't that big of a deal, anyway. All programs save their state when you switch out of them, so even after a reboot, you don't lose your work in the programs. And the reboot takes only about 10 seconds--so it's really not bad at all... when it happens.

    And, the palm can play videos... very well. With TCMCP [corecodec.org], you can even play PC-sized divx encoded video on the palm. The Treo 650's 312 MHZ Xscale is FAST.

    The palm does have downsides... The sync software is terrible (mentioned in the article), their customer service SUCKS, and devices previous to the Treo 650 are NOT flash based--you lose your battery and backup battery, and you lose your information. They needed to upgrade to flash memory a LONG time ago.

    Basically, a palm is like a Mac with a good application base. It's intuitive, stylish, and it "just works". It doesn't always have bleeding edge stuff, but it does everything it's designed for, and there are programs to do almost anything you need. Every PocketPC I used crashed repeatedly and had severe stability issues.
    • The palm does have downsides... The sync software is terrible (mentioned in the article), their customer service SUCKS, and devices previous to the Treo 650 are NOT flash based--you lose your battery and backup battery, and you lose your information. They needed to upgrade to flash memory a LONG time ago.

      Ditto with Pocket PC. Apparently the upcoming Windows Mobile 5 devices will sort that out, but existing Windows Mobile devices suffer the same as Palms in that respect.

    • Re:I've used palm and I've been very happy... (Score:5, Informative)

      by _ph1ux_ ( 216706 ) on Sunday July 10, 2005 @02:30PM (#13027741)
      You havent used the treos very long then if you think these devices crash "rarely". My IT Staff supports over 50 ermployees on a mix of 600's and 650's, and these things are peices of crap.

      I can predictably crash the treo 600 any time I like, the 650s crash and lockup and go offline just about as much as the 600s but they look a lilttlel better doing it.

      I am on my 5th treo in less than a year. Our Ceo is on number 14. We were RMA-ing about 2 per week for some time, we have had AT&T (Now Cingular) in our offices on at least four occasions to complain about the number of failures we have had on these devices.

      Our Singapore office uses blackberry instead of treo, and while they dont crash as much they still have their issues.

      Any company who builds a device as heavy as the treo with features and what not, while not including wi-fi is lshort-sighted at best, despicable at worst. I am sure that the cellular companies are the ones preventing wi--fi from being a feature on the treos, but lthis whole topic just makes me boil. We spend over 30K per month on cell charges, and a great deal of time is spent on fixing/replacing problems with these horrid devices.
      • Any company who builds a device as heavy as the treo with features and what not, while not including wi-fi is lshort-sighted at best, despicable at worst

        The Treo is a cell phone. How many cell phones have you seen with WiFi?

        Palm DOES make WiFi enabled PDAs. And those all either have bluetooth or can connect via a cable to a dedicated cell phone.

        In fact, come to think of it, Palm's venerable Tungsten C is a WiFi device, comparable to the Treo for everything but voice and a bit of antiquity.

        Also, the n
        • "Also, the newest Palms have enough spare speed to run Skype -- they're reportedly creating a client for it, which will presumably run via WiFi."

          Thats precisely what I am looking for, the problem is that not all areas have wi-fi, so I want a cell phone that has wi-fi which I can run Skype (and putty) on..

          Out of ~300 employees world wide, 298 of them have laptops, at my company. We have rolled out Skype as an official service supported by IT in an effort to drive our telecom charges down. The next step is
        • Actually, its a PDA that has cell phone functionality built in. And for that I can mention my XDA II,IIs,IIi,III the iPaq 6350, and there are quite a few others. Interesting that they all run Pocket PCs :)

          Seriously - the Pocket PC is an awesome OS for mobile devices. Palm is not so awesome, but its got an entry level ease of use that is hard to match. Both systems are good for their respective target markets.

          I believe in getting the device that fits both application wise, usage wise, and personality wise
    • Honestly, the OS restarting on an application crash isn't that big of a deal, anyway. All programs save their state when you switch out of them, so even after a reboot, you don't lose your work in the programs. And the reboot takes only about 10 seconds--so it's really not bad at all... when it happens.

      FWIW, if you have a Lifedrive -- Palm's new top-level device with an internal HDD -- you can have some of the built-in applications crash. Especially if you switch back and forth a lot.

      And, in addition t

  • A Feeling of Deja vu (Score:3, Funny)

    by amirl ( 813941 ) <amir,levin&gmail,com> on Sunday July 10, 2005 @12:56PM (#13027277)
    Microsoft is (already?) dominating this market. Their next target is the cellular, TV, cables, satelites...

    We are going to buy a few PDAs, in the company I'm working at. Someone came and said that he doesn't care which PDA we're going to buy, as long as it will run MS Windows.

  • Missing option (Score:5, Informative)

    by Rosco P. Coltrane ( 209368 ) on Sunday July 10, 2005 @12:56PM (#13027280)
    For the technically minded: the Linux/QTopia-based Zaurus [sharpusa.com]: The keyboard rocks, you can develop applications for it, and thousands of developers have already done so, so there are a lot of useful, free apps out there.

    Even better, if you already own an iPaq, install Familiar [handhelds.org] and enjoy the stability and openness of Linux just like on the Zaurus.
    • I'm awaiting delivery of an rx3715, but I'm not holding my breath for Linux support. Older models are still a long way from being finished and this one has a LOT of features to code for.

      One of the things that really peeves me about it is the DRM of Windows that is forced into it. It seems that the only technology anyone really works on these days is for restriction, not enablement.

  • Serious Nerds (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anne Thwacks ( 531696 ) on Sunday July 10, 2005 @12:57PM (#13027286)
    Serious nerds need both.

    In fact, they need a Linux device as well.

  • There are other handhelds out there - or soon will be. After taking several years off from such devices, I plan to get a Nokia 770 [nokia.com]... eventually. It's not even on the market yet, and people are already developing for it. The one thing I'm waiting on is VoIP, and that's already been announced. But I can't figure out where the sound-in jack is. I only see sound out on the specs.

  • PalmOS is what a palm os is supposed to be (Score:5, Interesting)

    by vansloot ( 89515 ) on Sunday July 10, 2005 @01:02PM (#13027311)
    In a world: simplicity. I can get to pretty much anything on my Palm in a tap or two. It is extremely elegant, as it was designed for palmtop devices. WinCE feels like Win95 smashed into a small device. I never thought the Windows UI was that elegantly designed in the first place, and that problem is only magnified on a palmtop. I also can't say I've ever wanted to play a video on my palmtop, and I have an iPod for my music (20GB beats a couple hundred MB any day).

  • What about Linux? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by anthony_dipierro ( 543308 ) on Sunday July 10, 2005 @01:02PM (#13027313) Journal
    I'm not sure if this is possible with the Palm devices, but I've got Linux running on my iPaq.
    • You can also run NetBSD on a large variety of these devices.

      Supposedly, you can run Linux on some HP Jornadas, and I've gotten NetBSD running on an old NEC Mobilepro 780 that I have lying around.

  • Ah, Well (Score:3, Interesting)

    by CaptainZapp ( 182233 ) * on Sunday July 10, 2005 @01:03PM (#13027323) Homepage
    Instead of inserting myself into the fray I bought some popcorn, a front row seat and a Nokia 9300 [nokia.co.uk].

    Pretty good organizer/phone with the added benefit of not getting into religious bullshit.

    • Re:Ah, Well (Score:2, Interesting)

      by SA Stevens ( 862201 )
      I'll admit I was suprised to see what appears to be a PDA article here in the land of 'PDAs are obsolete, get a cellphone.'

      The thing is, my Palm Tungsten E works wether or not I pay a monthly fee to some cell subscription service or not.

      Your cellphone might work just as well, but it's a little awkward carrying a cellphone that isn't a cellphone anymore, if you decide not to pay a monthly fee.

      Some of us refuse to get hooked into a cellphone world. I am reachable by phone at home, and in my cubicle at wor

  • All I want is Web (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ryantate ( 97606 ) <ryantate@ryantate.com> on Sunday July 10, 2005 @01:04PM (#13027329) Homepage
    I've been happy so far with my very simple, pretty cheap Palm Zire 31. The one thing I'd really like is to replace the Palm Desktop software with a Web-based application suite.

    I don't mind having to download/install the sync software on my local PCs. But I'd love if all my off-Palm data were automatically in sync, so I could access from work/home/office/friend's laptop without a weird four-way sync setup. Every time I synced, it would be to the Web, so I only have two datasets (Palm, Web). Also, if I leave my Palm at home I can make an emergency data check (e.g. calendar) at an Internet cafe.

    Besides, the Palm Desktop is so incredibly basic it could be implemented in XHTML/CSS/JavaScript/AJAX without breaking a sweat.

    PS I know there is Internet sync software available from third parties but it is hacky and tends to sync poorly.
  • PocketPC:
    2. It looks better, more modern, than PalmOS. Support for Clear Type.

    PalmOS:
    11. Palm devices are usually more stylish than PocketPCs.

    So which really matters? Modern vs. Stylish? WTF?

    Also the reviewer seems to be biased towards PocketPCs since he ignores the fact that PalmOS supports MS Office better than the PocketPC (a la Documents toGo)
    Also notice the link to PocketPC freeware at the bottom of the page, but no similar link to PalmOS freeware (which there is more of!).

    • I think that he's talking about hardware vs. software. But I agree, crappy review. I think that he already has a bias towards PPC. Note how he comes to the rescue with workarounds for several of the PPC's disadvantages but doesn't do it for Palms.

  • Palm is great for small business & geeks (Score:3, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 10, 2005 @01:10PM (#13027368)
    Get push e-mail and background SSL without being confined to MS Exchange or a Blackberry, by using ChatterEmail on a Treo. With its support for 2 GB memory cards, bundled RealPlayer, and high-speed EDGE, the Treo 650 is like a super cell phone/e-mail/contact manager/scheduler/web browser/iPod. (Hook'em up to a pair of Bose noise-cancelling headphones for incredible sound and long battery life for transcontinental flights).
    Unlike "PocketPCs", a Treo actually fits in a pocket.
  • This is the way it has allways been between these two. What has changed in the last 5-10 years that might have changed this?

  • Battery life (Score:3, Insightful)

    by geneing ( 756949 ) on Sunday July 10, 2005 @01:17PM (#13027401)
    I've been a palm user for many years. I use it as an organizer and for reading e-books. I don't understand why people insist on watching postage size movies or editing big word documents on their palm pilots.

    The problem I have with the current crop of palms is battery life. They now use lithium batteries which die after only 100-200 recharges and can be replaced only by the manufacturer. That means I have send my palm out once a year or so.

    • The problem I have with the current crop of palms is battery life. They now use lithium batteries which die after only 100-200 recharges and can be replaced only by the manufacturer. That means I have send my palm out once a year or so.

      My Pocket PC (and every one I've ever used) has a replaceable battery. I bought an OEM extended capacity battery for my Pocket PC for $40. There's no need to take the device apart, and no warranty was voided. I can also keep more than battery charged up if I need to (but I

  • Poorly researched (Score:5, Informative)

    by JonathanBoyd ( 644397 ) on Sunday July 10, 2005 @01:19PM (#13027410) Homepage

    I'm not convinced the reviewer has used a Palm in the last few years as he seems to have a lot of gaps in his knowledge.

    6. "Today" default screen more relevant than "Applications" (because of the very nature of PDAs in the business world).

    When I turn my T3 on, it has open whatever I was last working on, so it's trivial to have it switch on at the PalmOS 'Today' equivalent. If you turn it on by pressing the calendar button, then it'll bring it up straight away.

    11. Apps use the full 320x240 resolution (instead of the 160x160 that most PalmOS apps use and double-pixel at 320x320).

    The vast majority of Palm apps I use will take advantage of the 480*320 resolution of the T3. Pretty much all the rest use 320*320 single pixel. It's only the really old stuff that goes double-pixel.

    12. Able to run more complex games, some 3D games too.

    I've got a decent 3D game called Space Combat on my Palm. There are others available.

    15. Able to install/run apps from flash addon cards and built-in storage.

    I run quite a few apps from a 512 MB SD card.

    8. No compact flash to be found on most Palm devices. This means, considerably less accessory support (e.g. cameras, radios, ethernet, modem, wifi, gps etc).

    Plenty of SD support though, which is just fine for cameras, wifi, gps, etc.

    • Re:Poorly researched (Score:2, Insightful)

      by nxtw ( 866177 )
      When I turn my T3 on, it has open whatever I was last working on, so it's trivial to have it switch on at the PalmOS 'Today' equivalent. If you turn it on by pressing the calendar button, then it'll bring it up straight away.

      The same applies for a Pocket PC. But, the Pocket PC's Today screen (the main screen) shows an overview of the to-do list, calendar events, etc., and there is a multitude of plugins available for it.

      I've got a decent 3D game called Space Combat on my Palm. There are others available

      • The same applies for a Pocket PC. But, the Pocket PC's Today screen (the main screen) shows an overview of the to-do list, calendar events, etc., and there is a multitude of plugins available for it.

        The Palm screen shows to-do items and the upcoming diary. It would be nice if it showed to-do items due the enxt day as wekll, but it's better than the situation of just displaing applications as the article implied.

        Pocket PC wins here; Palsm are just recently getting capability that Pocket PCs have ha

  • Palm should be going "Uh-oh" (Score:3, Insightful)

    by sonamchauhan ( 587356 ) <sonamc@NOsPam.gmail.com> on Sunday July 10, 2005 @01:22PM (#13027422) Journal
    "If you are after gaming, multimedia, good WiFi+Bluetooth support, a lot of accessories and versatility, go with Pocket PC.

    If you are after small and stylish devices with good battery life, simple interface and simple PIM apps, go with PalmOS."

    Anyone else see a remarkable similarity to how the Apple and PC story played out in the last couple of decades? Except in this case, Microsoft even has the better multi-media support.

  • Gaming on Pocket PC (Score:3, Interesting)

    by David Horn ( 772985 ) <davidNO@SPAMpocketgamer.org> on Sunday July 10, 2005 @01:23PM (#13027428) Homepage
    [Shameless plug]

    If you're into (or even slightly interested in) gaming on the Pocket PC, http://www.pocketgamer.org/ [pocketgamer.org] is a great place to start, featuring the latest gaming news, reviews, free games to be won, extensive listings... and plenty more besides. :-)

    [/Shameless plug]
  • Who could possibly believe that the name "Palm" for a "handheld" wasn't intended to be a pun?

  • palm stuff not quite accurate (Score:5, Informative)

    by pruss ( 246395 ) on Sunday July 10, 2005 @01:30PM (#13027458) Homepage
    1. On resolution:

    The 160x160 (72 DPI) thing is not accurate. Most PalmOS 5 devices are 320x320 (144DPI) or 320x480. Almost all apps that are still being developed use the full 320x320 resolution, and many use 320x480/480x320. Moreover, even legacy apps tend to at least display text in 320x320 (unless they install a custom font that requires 160x160) because PalmOS 5 does that automatically, and standard UI elements like buttons, checkboxes and menus also automatically get upgraded to high resolution. Of course if an app shows bitmaps that haven't been upgraded to 144 DPI, there is nothing the OS can do about that.


    2. On fonts:

    Agreed--the built-in ones aren't great. But again third-party stuff comes to the rescue. Lubak's Fonts4OS5 [lubak.net] provides a bunch of beautiful bitmapped fonts (but not antialiased), while (to give a plug for my own commercial stuff) my own FontSmoother [zlthemes.com] provides antialiased (admittedly, grayscale only) smooth fonts (converted from TTF/Type1 via two different GPL converters, though FontSmoother itself is shareware and closed source).



    3. On installing apps in flash:

    Actually, non-hackish applications can be installed directly on a flash card without any utilities, though any databases that they use will have to be in RAM unless the app is designed to use databases in flash or unless you use a third-party utility.



    4. On the C API:

    It may be archaic but it makes for very nice, compact applications and one can develop on basically any platform to which one can port gcc.



    5. On OS crashes:

    I don't know the PPC world at all, but under PalmOS most crashes aren't a big deal--the system just resets and ten to twenty seconds later you're back up and running. Of course a really bad bug can cause nastier things (reset loops, hard resets, etc.), but that I assume can happen on any platform.


    6. On battery life:

    Actually, a number of slightly older PalmOS 5 devices have rather poor battery life--three hours or so. But the latest palmOne devices with NVFS have very good battery life.

    • Agreed--the built-in ones aren't great. But again third-party stuff comes to the rescue. Lubak's Fonts4OS5 provides a bunch of beautiful bitmapped fonts (but not antialiased), while (to give a plug for my own commercial stuff) my own FontSmoother provides antialiased (admittedly, grayscale only) smooth fonts (converted from TTF/Type1 via two different GPL converters, though FontSmoother itself is shareware and closed source).

      My Pocket PC has built-in antialiased fonts with ClearType.

      Actually, non-hackis

  • Neither, bring back the Newton (Score:3, Interesting)

    by xirtam_work ( 560625 ) on Sunday July 10, 2005 @01:31PM (#13027462)
    I've used both PocketPC (or WinCE as it was) and Palm. Both have their problems. just a few of them pointed out by the article. What I really want is a brand new Newton from Apple. The original Newtons were lightyears ahead of their time and can still hold their own today. I think the problem with the Newton was everyone concentrated on the handwriting recognition, easy to understand it was the only machine of it's type available and the handwriting interface was the primary method for inputting information. But if you look at how people use PDA's these days it's mainly for brief notetaking and looking up info, not writing esays on. Another problem with the original Newton's was the size of the thing, now they'd be able to make a smaller model with a higher resolution screen and more compact battery more easily (not saying that I wouldn't be up for a sub-notebook sized Newton that doesn't fit in my pocket for reading off as well or instead of the pocket sized one - hell make both!).

    Apple could easily steal the entire PDA market from Palm and the PocketPC folks by bringing out a decent colour version of the NewtonOS on modern hardware that plays videos, works with a digital camera and works like an iPod. Just use the same principles as OS X design.... shiney, easy to use, comes with InkWell already and a Darwin/BSD/Unix/whatever core underneath (hey aren't Palm working on a Linux underneath PalmOS machine???). Especailly with them getting into bed with Intel recently, it could use the XScale.

    I've downloaded the Einstein Newton emulator but sadly can't use it as I'm missing the NewtonOS ROM, I don't have a Newton to copy it from :-( I used a friends Newton for a short time and loved it. If anyone has the ROM...... you know what to do. testrobotSPAMSPAMSPAM@gmail.com

    • Apple could easily steal the entire PDA market from Palm and the PocketPC folks by bringing out a decent colour version of the NewtonOS on modern hardware that plays videos, works with a digital camera and works like an iPod. Just use the same principles as OS X design....

      Just like Macs have stolen the market for desktop computers? I think some details are being overlooked.

      Also, a device like a handheld shouldn't run a full unix system like what you seem to have in mind. One of the PocketPC's weaknes

      • I agree with the comment 'more is less' and the reverse 'less is more' when it comes to PDA's. After playing with a Linux based PDA I could see the attraction of being able to port stuff over from the desktop, but it didn't ever seem to fit into the form factor if you know what I mean. I was thinking of a cut down Darwin similar to PicoBSD or something. As long as the interface looks as pretty as OS X and is smooth and responsive then I don't care (well I do, but you know what I mean).

  • Showdown? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by smart.id ( 264791 ) <jbdNO@SPAMjd87.com> on Sunday July 10, 2005 @01:32PM (#13027466) Homepage
    Doesn't showdown imply some sort of battle? All this guy did was list the "advantages" and "disadvantages" of each one. Besides the fact that these are his own opinion, and that many of them are outdated or simply incorrect as stated by posters below, this is not a showdown of any kind. He didn't actually compare ease-of-use or compatability or anything like that between two models, just listed things from his memory. A useless article, in my opinion, and it didn't really state anything that most PDA users knew already.
  • If you buy a Pocket PC (not sure about Palm) be prepared to get stuck with the included applications. Nobody seems to know how to write an elegant application for the Pocket PC. They all look like the worst kind of Windows freeware you can find.

    However, all is not lost. The included software is pretty darn good. Pocket Internet Explorer, Pocket Word, Pocket Excel, Pocket Media Player, Notes, Tasks, Inbox, Contacts, Calendar, Pictures, etc. Very comprehensive for most of what you'll be doing with it.

    Person
    • It has some form of protected memory and so when applications crash the OS stays alive (well, most of the time).That only matters if you're running multiple applications at once. Not something you usually do on a PDA. And recovering-without-rebooting usually is more time consuming and complicated than just resetting your Palm system.
    • It looks better, more modern, than PalmOS. Support for Clear Type.Cleartype is kind of secondary, since Palm doesn't even support vector fonts. But when your screen is only

    • Re:My nitpicks (Score:3, Interesting)

      by nxtw ( 866177 )
      That only matters if you're running multiple applications at once. Not something you usually do on a PDA.

      You can play music and do other things at the same time. I like doing that. You can also get on AIM or IRC while surfing the Web. Or (my favorite) play Bejeweled or surf the Web while you should be doing something else, and easily switch between them.

      Cleartype is kind of secondary, since Palm doesn't even support vector fonts. But when your screen is only big for maybe 20 words of text, bitmap fonts

  • Outdated and Biased review (Score:5, Informative)

    by illumin8 ( 148082 ) on Sunday July 10, 2005 @01:48PM (#13027532) Journal
    I think this review is biased towards PocketPC/Windows Mobile. The reason is that they didn't compare newer versions of PalmOS (5.x+). They listed as some of the advantages of PocketPC the higher resolution (320x240), which PalmOS has had for about 2 years or so now, ever since 5.x came out. Also, ClearType. PalmOS 5 supports Font smoothing. In fact, almost all of these so-called advantages are already present on newer devices like my PalmOne Treo 650 smartphone:

    1. It has some form of protected memory and so when applications crash the OS stays alive (well, most of the time).

    This one goes to PocketPC. Palm OS still doesn't have protected memory.

    2. It looks better, more modern, than PalmOS. Support for Clear Type.

    This point is debateable. Any color PalmOS device with a 320x240 screen can look just as good or better than a PocketPC device. In fact, if you really wanted the freakin' Windows logo all over everything, you could skin it with Zlauncher to look just like a PocketPC or a Mac even.

    3. It has good support for the Exchange server that most businesses care about.

    Point to the PocketPC here. Although you can get third-party mail apps for Palm that support push technology like Blackberry, which makes it more useful IMO as an instant email device.

    4. Internet Explorer and Outlook are more robust than WebPro, Mail and Blazer.

    Debateable. I like the fact that apps open instantly on the Palm and browsing on a modern Palm is fast and compatible with most websites.

    5. More input options than PalmOS (e.g. transcriber, speech addon from MS).

    Hello, transcriber? Palm has had Graffiti since inception. What do you call graffit but an instant transcriber. The speech addon may be available for Palm but I'm not sure.

    6. "Today" default screen more relevant than "Applications" (because of the very nature of PDAs in the business world).

    Palm has had a Today screen ever since version 5.0, which shows all appointments, tasks that are due that day, as well as all unread email.

    7. WMA/WMV and ASF built-in support.

    Point for PocketPC here. Although Palm has several media players that can play most formats, including Divx.

    8. Automatic support for USB host connector, when available.

    Point PocketPC.

    9. Runs on faster XScale hardware than PalmOS usually.

    False. Almost all newer Palm devices use Xscale processors. My Treo has an Xscale processor in it, just like a PocketPC.

    10. DirectX/3D support, more multimedia capable.

    Point for the PocketPC.

    11. Apps use the full 320x240 resolution (instead of the 160x160 that most PalmOS apps use and double-pixel at 320x320).

    Absolutely false. Palm has had real 320x240 for about 2 years now, and almost all apps use it.

    12. Able to run more complex games, some 3D games too.

    Point for the PocketPC. I have a PSP for games, an iPod for Music. I want my smartphone to be good for email and office applications, not games.

    11. Better office format compliancy, MS Office is usually bundled with the PDA.

    My Treo came bundled with Datavis Documents to Go, which let's me edit or create Word, Excel and Powerpoint documents. That seems pretty bundled to me.

    12. ActiveSync rocks, it allows for direct internet connection and can mount the PDA to your desktop (PalmOS' drive mode is a hack, and only available to recent models)

    Point for the PocketPC here.

    13. Programming APIs similar to Win32, porting is easy, development too.

    If you develop Windows apps, I guess this is a plus.

    14. Basic and .NET available if C/C++ is not desired.

    Again, if you develop Windows apps, this is nice. It sounds like this article was written by a Windows developer trying to plug PocketPC over PalmOS.
    • This point is debateable. Any color PalmOS device with a 320x240 screen can look just as good or better than a PocketPC device.

      I think ClearType is noticably better.

      Debateable. I like the fact that apps open instantly on the Palm and browsing on a modern Palm is fast and compatible with most websites.

      I find NetFront for Pocket PC to be comaptible with every website I go to. Pocket PCs support Flash, so I can watch Homestar when I'm bored.

      False. Almost all newer Palm devices use Xscale processors. M

    • 8. Actually, see the Palm LifeDrive. No point for PocketPC. 11. Actually, Palm OS devices are either 320x320 or 320x480. Considerably higher resolution than a Pocket PC's 320x240. 15. Palm OS can do this with the built-in launcher. No need for a third-party launcher 12 (the other 12... there's double numbers!). The Missing Sync does this and more rather well. Or you could just plug the SD/MS card into your computer directly and get faster transfer. 14. http://www.hotpaw.com/rhn/hotpaw/ [hotpaw.com] BASIC programming
      • Damned line breaks.

        8. Actually, see the Palm LifeDrive. No point for PocketPC.

        11. Actually, Palm OS devices are either 320x320 or 320x480. Considerably higher resolution than a Pocket PC's 320x240.

        15. Palm OS can do this with the built-in launcher. No need for a third-party launcher

        12 (the other 12... there's double numbers!). The Missing Sync does this and more rather well. Or you could just plug the SD/MS card into your computer directly and get faster transfer.

        14. http://www.hotpaw.com/r [hotpaw.com]

  • Try a Zodiac (Score:3, Informative)

    by hirschma ( 187820 ) on Sunday July 10, 2005 @02:00PM (#13027591)
    I just picked up a Zodiac 2 off ebay for about $200 - they got a bit cheap after Tapwave announced that the line is discontinued.

    It has a nice ATI graphic chip in it, which has been put to good use in:

    * A version of MAME,
    * A combo SNES/Gensis/Turbo Graphix/Gameboy emulator. [yoyofr92.free.fr] The SNES emu is flawless, and I'm enjoying playing a lot of games that I'd half forgotten about.
    * An accelerated version of the TCPMP player [corecodec.org]
    * A mess of Zodiac enabled games. I'd say that the 3D quality is somewhere between a PS1 and a PS2.
    * Hexen, Doom and Quake ports by the same developer that did Little John Z.

    Plus, the Zodiac 2 has Bluetooth, two SD slots (one SDIO), great widescreen display, aluminum case, and it is small. It ships with a decent mail client and a so-so web browser. It gets pretty nice battery life, too. It supports most SD wifi cards, another plus.

    It has turned out to be the best entertainment and "road warrior" PDA that I've ever owned, bar none.

    jh

  • Palm LifeDrive (Score:4, Informative)

    by LoadWB ( 592248 ) * on Sunday July 10, 2005 @02:13PM (#13027664) Journal
    I'm going to give my ametuer review (or really, my gripes and some niceties) about my new PalmOne LifeDrive.

    When deciding whether to stay Palm when ready to dump my old Palm IIIx, I looked at the money and policy invested in Palm software for my business -- contact management software, mileage tracking, and this really damn neat Planetarium program. Then I looked up a few things that I knew I would need: SSH, Terminal Services, and a PPTP VPN client. I found all of them, so I stuck with Palm.

    Originally I purchased a T5. It was very slim and sleek, and with a 1GB SD card, this was a perfect mate to go with my latop and desktop systems. However, it did not have built in WiFi, and the only WiFi card I could find is by PalmOne and doesn't support WPA, which is in use at 95% of my 802.11 installations.

    As an aside, I called SanDisk who makes an SD WiFi card for the Zire which DOES support WPA. They told me that Palm has refused to respond to their request for documentation on the WiFi API for PalmOS Garnet 5.4.x, so they will not support this OS. Shame. When I called Palm, they told me I should drop an extra clam on the LifeDrive.

    I looked at it. It's pretty cool with a 4GB CF microdrive. It's slower than its RAM-based compatriots in openning applications and loading associate databases, but it's not so much to be a big problem. One thing I notice about the LifeDrive is that PalmOne touts it as a mobile manager perfect for business, but none of the quick buttons are business: by default you have Homes, Files, Media, and Favorites. Now, the favorites menu is pretty cool, and I could easily put my business apps on the first screen on the favorites. However, I'm a bit old-fashioned and like my ability to call up my contacts and calendar with a single button press. I redefined the buttons and so now I am there again.

    A GREAT feature is the ability to give access to the 4GB hard drive to a connected computer via USB Drive Mode. I can copy music, documents, or anything I want or need to the 4GB hard drive with the USB cable. However, I don't find this confusing or cumbersome as the article says. It seems pretty straight-forward to me.

    Oh, and I am fine with the UI and fonts. And if you don't like either, there are plenty of launch-replacements and skins for download. Personally, I haven't tried them because I was more interested in gaining basic stability :)

    Poor tech support certainly is a problem. This is my third unit, the previosus suffering some kind of software problem which put it into a reboot-cycle. I asked Palm if there was some way to glean useful information from the unit, like a memory dump, or if I could just send them a dump of my profile so they could determine the problem. No such utilities or abilities exist for the LifeDrive, and I find it a little irritating that they would release something without having good diagnostic tools available. How do they expect to fix things based on user reports if they can't get usable technical information?

    I finally got this unit working, then found that my headphone jack was broken. A quick trip to Staples and that was replaced (again.) (A BIG thumbs-up to Staples: I had my T5 for a week and based on Palm's treatment of the situation, they traded me up to the LifeDrive, then replaced several LifeDrives for me while we troubleshot the problems I was having.)

    I have purchased MMPlayer to watch DivX, Xvid, and some other formats, Kinoma Player and Kinoma Producter to port my DVDs (requires additional DVD ripping software) to MP4 format perfect for viewing on the LD. It's not a nice distraction from work. RealPlayer is available for Palm, but it does not support video (BOOO!)

    For my work I use pSSH (free,) Mergic VPN, and Remote Plus (RDP/TS client.) These also all work great, and I suspect that pSSH will be much more fun once I get my Bluetooth keyboard.

    Conceptually, this unit is fantastic. However, it has numerous issues which I find quite annoy

  • Enterprise connectivity (Score:3, Insightful)

    by end3rtm ( 894520 ) on Sunday July 10, 2005 @02:24PM (#13027711)
    I've had various Palms and PocketPC devices...enough that I lost count. And through out it all...I realized one thing. I'm just a very disorganized person. These things don't save time nor help me organize nor help me manage all the information I have...because I'M NOT. And if I were a that type of person organized and anal enough to use it, it wouldn't matter to me WHAT I used...I could use a spiral bound notebook and I bet I'd be just as organized.

    But now, I use Motorola MPx220 and I support few people in our company that use their Treo650 connecting to our Exchange server. There is no comparison. If your company use MS infrastructure, you gotta go PocketPC. It allows you the sync Contacts, Calendar, Emails over wireless (wifi, cellular, etc). Palm Treo does this...but they use a crutch product called Versa Mail which really sucks. And it ONLY syncs emails . It does sync calendar items, but very unreliably. It doesn't sync contacts at all. You have to hotsync with your computer for that. I think if Treo650's next version synced with Exchange server completely, then I'd consider it again.
  • If you are after gaming, multimedia, good WiFi+Bluetooth support, a lot of accessories and versatility, go with Pocket PC. If you are after small and stylish devices with good battery life, simple interface and simple PIM apps, go with PalmOS.

    Oh good grief, would he please get out of the 20th century?

    Every palmOne device in the past two years includes an "Agenda" view (aka Today screen). All but the very lowest end includes an MP3 player and an office suite that is more compatible with MS Office than Po
  • I've used both - had a Treo 600 for just over a year and dropped it one time too many. The speaker broke, and I made a decision to get Sprint's PPC-6600 with the slide-out keyboard.

    Essentially, the Treo is an outstanding phone and a so-so PDA. Most of the functionality has been designed so you can get to it quickly with just your thumb while cradling the device in your hands. More than 1,000 contacts in the phone (like me)? Four keystrokes (Contacts > two initials of the person's name > one extra stro

  • I think PDAs are becoming a niche item servicing a shrinking market. If you have a circle of friends that includes a significant number of non-geeks, stop and think - how many of them had PDAs in the past, but no longer have/use them? I came up with six names from my list without much effort.

    I bought a Sony Clie a couple years ago, back when everyone thought that PDAs were the next big thing. But after a few months I found that, other than with games, I pretty much never needed the interactive nature of it
  • I have tried many different types of handhelds, and have found that pocket pc is best for me. I use my pocket pc as an mp3 player, to keep my schedule going as well as for some occasional gaming during a commute. I also have a full size keyboard plug-in that I can use for unexpected times when I need to type and do not have a laptop with me.

    I have found that the Dell Axim Pocket PC with CompleteCare warrenty is the best way to go. The warranty covers accidents such as drops and spills and I have received a
  • I wonder why HP, Dell, and others went with Microsoft's OS instead of PalmOS for their PDAs. Was Palm not licensing their OS yet?

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