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Portables Patents Hardware

The BlackBerry Infringing on Other Technologies? 107

Posted by samzenpus from the norhing-is-new dept.
windwaker writes "The maker of the popular BlackBerry waits to see if he's infringing on eight other patents. If this is true, future BlackBerrys will have to be licensed differently, to compensate for the infringement."
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

The BlackBerry Infringing on Other Technologies? More

The BlackBerry Infringing on Other Technologies?

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  • Promotion (Score:2, Funny)

    by sirra462 ( 827954 )
    Feel like you are being looked over for promotion? Get a BlackBerry! You will be promoted in no time.
    • Feel like you are being looked over for promotion? Get a BlackBerry! You will be promoted in no time.

      ...and when you feel so important and indispensable that you need to take calls in public restrooms; just make sure you grab for your blackberry and not a dingleberry.

  • This just in: (Score:4, Funny)

    by madaxe42 ( 690151 ) on Thursday June 30, 2005 @07:08AM (#12949168) Homepage
    The national league of fruit growers have taken an interest, and intend to persue legal action due to infringment upon their patents on berries which are black.
    • Lol :-P Wouldn't that be more like a trademark or something though? Seriously this case is stupid, yet another pointless patent lawsuit with the only effect being yet another blow to technology.
      • Unfortunately this is the very kind of situation that software patents herald. I'm just hoping our EU MEPs get their act together to disallow these practices for once and for all.

        • Unfortunately this is the very kind of situation that software patents herald.

          Bullshit -- Why do software patents make this any more likely than the existing physical entity patents?

          • Your hostility amuses me.

            I didn't RTFA, but I assumed the patents that BB was being sued over were software patents. Stifling innovation like BB (like em or not) through lawsuits is just the reason why software should not be patentable. Copyright laws are more than enough to protect software.

            • Re:This just in: (Score:1, Interesting)

              by tzanger ( 1575 )

              I'm not hostile, I justam really frustrated that people think that software patents = stupidity patents. They're not the same. Stupidity patents occur in hardware too, see that recent ipod bay in a recent /. article.

              I am still unconvinced that copyright is enough to protect software. Copyright just prevents the copying of a work. It does not protect the nature of the work. Take JPEG compression for instance. It's a novel, nontrivial method to achieve lossy compression on images. Copyright would pro

              • I do not think software patents used in the right way = stupidity patents, i just think that in technology, it is more important that we move on, than having to settle 50 lawsuits before a simple upgrade or a new product can launch. I don't really think copyright is enough either, it isn't really good enough to protect anything, and will at most protect programs from direct copies. On the other hand i think that software patents severly limit the possibility of new products that will further technology to

              • I am still unconvinced that copyright is enough to protect software.


                I am still unconvinced that "protecting" software is a good idea.
                If I can't use an idea or piece of software, it's no different (to me) than if it doesn't exist.

                • Re:This just in: (Score:2, Insightful)

                  by tzanger ( 1575 )

                  Let me ask you this then: Do you feel that protecting processes or hardware is a good idea? How do inventors recoup their research and development investment if the process is trivial to perform once all the work in figuring out how to do it profitably is done? If you do feel that this is a good idea, why is software different?

                  I'm not trolling; this is the very crux of the whole software patent issue, in my mind. Why is software different? It's *not* mathematical formulas. It's *not* protected by co


                  • Let me ask you this then: Do you feel that protecting processes or hardware is a good idea?

                    I'm not sure.
                    The pitifully few studies I've seen support the idea that the average man does better in a community that doesn't restrict processes to the inventor, but I remain unconvinced either way.


                    How do inventors recoup their research and development investment if the process is trivial to perform once all the work in figuring out how to do it profitably is done?

                    If processes aren't protected then i

          • I think the point was, it is as likely to happen with software patents, which is, as you say, bullshit. It would be nice to avoid.

            It would suck to write a program from scratch, only to be brought to court by eight different companies for infringing on some functionality or another... say... the ability to control player pianos...
  • My RCA Lyra (portable mp3 player) used a similar up-down-press wheel thing like that on the side of the Blackberry. This thing came out in 1998, and I'm sure other portables / handhelds have similar input devices. I hope that's not one of the things BlackBerry tried to patent.
    • I don't think the issue is that Blackberry tried to patent anything, it's that they may use technology that others have already patented, i.e. they may infringe on those other patents.

      You don't have to attempt to patent a technology in order to be liable for infringing on a patent on the same technology.

    • The wheel is made by Synaptics and purchased. Synaptics is a major touchpad maker.

      The wheel is not the issue. It's a lovely 'software' issue of getting mail to a wireless device.

      I get mail to my wireless laptop with 802.1- Maybe I should turn myself in.

      PS: This whole blackberry suit is a joke.
      -M

  • uh... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by hamburger lady ( 218108 ) on Thursday June 30, 2005 @07:11AM (#12949180)
    At the same time, the U.S. Patent Trademark Office is reviewing the last of the eight patents, which may end up making a stronger case for NTP in the long run, according to one attorney.

    seeing as how the PTO has soundly rejected NTP's patents so far (the ones that have been reexamined and made public), i don't quite see where someone would get the opinion that such would make a stronger case for NTP.
    • according to one attorney
      Ok, so who is this ONE attorney and what should we do to him?
    • After reading the rest of the article, I had the impression that apparently if a patent is first rejected and then reinstated it is seen as "stronger." I don't know how or why, but that's what it seemed to say to me. Perhaps the problem is with the journalist?

  • Actually it is nine... (Score:5, Funny)

    by KiroDude ( 853510 ) on Thursday June 30, 2005 @07:11AM (#12949181)
    They're infringing my patent of something that does something with something resulting in something that is something which may or may not be used for something and including but not limited to something that does something where you enter data with something...

  • From TFA (Score:4, Funny)

    by Dunbal ( 464142 ) on Thursday June 30, 2005 @07:14AM (#12949191)
    ...has said that his engineers have created a technical workaround that can be used with all existing and future BlackBerry devices, thereby skirting the patent issue.

    Until he finds out that the patent for "workarounds for electronic devices that appear to infringe patents" has already been issued...

    Frankly I hope they sue themselves into oblivion and then maybe someone will think about reviewing the whole concept of patents.

    • Re:From TFA (Score:3, Funny)

      by rbanffy ( 584143 )
      If all technology companies sue themselves into oblivion, the richest organizations in the world will be law firms.

      I can't hardly imagine a world dominated by lawyers would consider patent reform.

      • I can't hardly imagine a world dominated by lawyers would consider patent reform.

        we're in that world now. our legislative branch is stuffed with lawyers elected to office (wiki says 45% [wikipedia.org], the senate is more interested in how many were doctors [senate.gov], cspan says 37% of last congress had law degrees [c-span.org]), our executive branch is frequently headed by a former lawyer who staffs the positions below him with more lawyers, and our judicial branch is mostly former lawyers. lawyers surely come in all stripes, but there is

      • I can't hardly imagine a world dominated by lawyers would consider patent reform.

        No but then we would know who to aim at...

  • And patents are a good thing because...? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 30, 2005 @07:14AM (#12949193)
    I love it when truly innovative companies are stiffled by patent squatter.

    Uck

  • how to make money... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by teksno ( 838560 ) on Thursday June 30, 2005 @07:16AM (#12949197)
    1. patent some random technology that in the patent app is so vauge it could be anything devolped with in the nex 5 years...

    2. do nothing with the tech that was just patented cause your company is so broke from getting the patent...

    3. wait 5 years for some company to do something truly inovative and useful with somthing that could be considered your patent only because the original application to the patent office was so vauge, AND THEN SUE THEM!!!

    4. ???

    5. $$$$$$$$
  • Does anyone have a summary of the 8 things blackberry is supposedly infringing on?

    Stupid patents...they're a relic from an age of much slower innovation and a less dynamic evolutionary landscape.

  • Blackberries (Score:5, Informative)

    by Andrewkov ( 140579 ) on Thursday June 30, 2005 @07:29AM (#12949253)
    From a support perspective, these Blackberries have been a nightmare for us. The well publicised RIM server problems (which my users think is *my* fault), problems with the synchronization software on Windows, problems integrating with Lotus Notes, how fragile the units are (I had a user break 2 LCD screens in one week by dropping them), and problems ungrading to newer models.. If RIM gets sued into oblivion and we stop using the damn Blackberries, that would make my day.

    • Re:Blackberries (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Remlik ( 654872 ) on Thursday June 30, 2005 @08:18AM (#12949506) Homepage
      Strangly my expierence with Blackberry has been the complete opposite.

      The BES server integrated seemlessly into my exchange and SQL server. Worked right out of the box. There was a problem syncing Outlook 2003 but Service Pack 3 for the desktop software (now up to version 4) fixed that. My company has 20 blackberries and not one of them has been broken by the end user. We have had 2 with bad flash roms which caused them to lock up at random times but they were replaced under warranty. I have personally dropped my blackberry from heights of 5ft or more to concrete and blacktop more than a dozen times. Got some road rash but no real damage. We have been using these devices both in the US and internationally for more than a year and all 20 users are Berry berry satisfied. :)

      YMMV I guess.
      • Yeah, I've heard it integrates better with Outlook than Notes.

        In fairness to RIM, the damaged units could be neglect on the part of the user. I think some people resent having them since they are now expected to be available by email 24/7.
      • We are in the midst of converting from Exchange to Outlook and I would suggest that the reason for the varying opinions lies in the different email servers. Exchange/Outlook with BB worked pretty smoothly, Domino/Notes with BB has been a pain.

      • Twenty? (Score:3, Insightful)

        by AKAJack ( 31058 )
        Not to sound like too much of a jerk, but I can support twenty of any computer-related (end user) device (across the globe) pretty easily. I've done it before between Japan, Los angeles, and Orlando.

        We have 2,000 blackberries and they suck up more support time/costs than windows does.

        You had a 10% DOA rate that amounts to two units. Mine is less than 5%, but it's still a major pain to return 100 units as that task falls to the support personnel.

        I cannot wait to move all of our blackberry users to an end
        • Only 100 out of 2000??? That does not sound like much. Guess what? Your problem is NOT going to go away with smartphones. Why? Well, to those who are not geeks, these things are new. They will have more issues for quite some time until people get used to them. Also, as they are carried 24/7 by some, they WILL be dropped, driven over, dropped in toilets, dropped in urinals, dropped in portapotties and even worse. You are complaining that only 100 out of 2000 have a problem? Only 5 percent?? Wow. I
          • I forgot to mention that we have offices in 56 countries and sales people in nearly 100. That's the problem - all Blackberry provisioning to our system goes through London, NYC, or Los Angeles. If they locally procure smartphones that offloads the work to the user themselves and we have established already that they complain less and are more careful with the kit when they have to be involved in getting it repaired.

            The 100 was Dead On Arrival (DOA). Maybe that is acceptable for handhelds. We just neve

    • Re:Blackberries (Score:2, Insightful)

      by smilheim ( 804292 )
      I've been using a 7520 since it was released in December. I've dropped it a few times, few scratches. Phone is quite rugged and well built. With an SSH client (very slow network) it's indespensable.

    • Re:Blackberries (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I have to agree with the previous posters. Blackberries haven't been much of a problem at all (compared to supporting other wireless devices). At least there's a full end-to-end solution, and I can centrally manage everything really easily. And security problems aren't as much of an issue - no cameras, etc.

      Plus I can't live without my Idokorro [idokorro.com] software for mobile end user support :)

    • Re:Blackberries (Score:2, Informative)

      by Raeth ( 896391 )
      Blackberries are a major part of our companies' communications strategy. We have about 700 blackberries deployed among 1200 users. We also went thru a notes to exchange migration about 1.5 years ago. I agree with a lot of what you said - BB's under notes are kindof a PITA. They do seem to work somewhat better under exchange tho. I DO agree that these things are fragile: we've probably replaced 200 of these things in the past year or two. I'd have to add that this is dependant on the users - most user

    • Re:Blackberries (Score:2, Informative)

      by Jack Johnson ( 836341 )
      From a support perspective, these Blackberries have been a nightmare for us. The well publicised RIM server problems (which my users think is *my* fault), problems with the synchronization software on Windows, problems integrating with Lotus Notes, how fragile the units are (I had a user break 2 LCD screens in one week by dropping them), and problems ungrading to newer models.. If RIM gets sued into oblivion and we stop using the damn Blackberries, that would make my day.

      My experience with deploying Blac

    • Re:Blackberries (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      "From a support perspective, these Blackberries have been a nightmare for us."

      We've got close to 40 blackberries from Sprint, Nextel, and Verizon. And a whole slew of the different models.

      We use Lotus Notes and have our own BES Server.

      And I have to say we have had almost no problems with it.

      They are really easy to setup run with.

      Sounds like maybe you don't have a BES server and if that's the case don't make other people believe that Blackberry's are problems just because you have service issues with RI
    • Lotus Notes sucks, don't blame Blackberry for that.

      Someone schedules a meeting and then reschedules it, yet the Notes calender still shows the old day/time and sends messages based on it.

      I had to have a Lotus Notes email database rebuilt from scratch and the email copied into it - it got that hosed - cross server replicate was bungled - and that was with 2 non-mobile servers. God only knows what problems adding a mobile device would bring.

      As for dropping things - most electronic devices don't deal well w

  • My routine (Score:5, Insightful)

    by udderly ( 890305 ) on Thursday June 30, 2005 @07:32AM (#12949267)
    This is what I do...EVERY DAY

    6:30 AM -- Get up
    6:31 AM -- Go to the bathroom
    6:32 AM -- Get coffee
    6:35 AM -- Open Firefox, go to /. and read that there's a new patent infringment case

    Seriously, what's it going to take for this patent situation to be fixed? Or maybe it won't since trial lawyers are the #1 contributors to politicians [opensecrets.org].
    • gahd man - get a life! or at last another hours kip - most people just wait until 9am 'till they can use the office to do their /.ing...

    • Re:My routine (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Peyna ( 14792 ) on Thursday June 30, 2005 @07:50AM (#12949339) Homepage
      That data you cite regarding political contributions is wildly inaccurate. It is a list of top contributors to specific members of Congress for 2004. Not surprisingly then, is that John Kerry's supporters hold all of those positions. So what you've got is presidential campaign money mixed in with statistics for Congress.

      A better index [opensecrets.org] to use would be the top donors since 1989.

      The top contributors, which isn't surprising given the number of people they employ, are the American Federation of State, County & Municipal Employees (think of all those police officers and firefighters); the National Association of Realtors (perhaps surprising to be this high on the list), the National Education Association (teachers), and coming in fourth is the Association of Trial Lawyers of America.

      Big businesses are absent from this list, which might surprise some people, until they realize that almost every top individual [opensecrets.org] donor sits in a pretty high position in their company.

      • I should add that even though 9 of those 10 overall donors support mostly Democratic candidates, that out of the top 68 donors over the same time period, 59% of the money went to Republicans; with Republicans getting 62-65% since 1996. Party break down of the data [opensecrets.org].
        • Ah, just realized I misinterpreted the data myself. Why doesn't opensecrets provide some overall statistics with all these numbers they've got?

          Either way, if you browse around the site you will see that the Republican Party does manage to get a lot more money than the Democratic Party. But, like the grandparent did, it is easy to take some statistics, such as "the top 9 donors are all Democratic" and make it look like the opposite. The Democrats just have some large organizations that support them; Repu

    • profit! (Score:4, Funny)

      by pointbeing ( 701902 ) on Thursday June 30, 2005 @08:02AM (#12949421)
      This is what I do...EVERY DAY

      6:30 AM -- Get up
      6:31 AM -- Go to the bathroom
      6:32 AM -- Get coffee
      6:35 AM -- Open Firefox, go to /. and read that there's a new patent infringment case
      6:40 AM -- ?
      7:00 AM -- profit!

  • A bit too late (Score:5, Insightful)

    by BlackberryCool ( 858803 ) on Thursday June 30, 2005 @07:50AM (#12949342) Homepage
    What's wrong with C|NET, they are fairly late on the RIM vs NTP case. The USPTO has already rejected 7 out of the 8 patents held by NTP.

    Globe and Mail Article [globetechnology.com] on the patents being rejected.
    • from TFA:
      The director's office of the USPTO has reviewed seven of the patents under an ex parte format, which means that the review is only between the USPTO and the patent holder. The patent office rejected five of Campana's and NTP's patents and then turned around and rejected two more this month.
    • There's nothing wrong with the C|NET article. It states that the USPTO "is reviewing the last of the eight patents". By implication that means that the other 7 have already been reviewed.

  • well OBVIOUSLY (Score:5, Funny)

    by sbma44 ( 694130 ) on Thursday June 30, 2005 @07:58AM (#12949388)
    the buttons; the plastic casing; the use of symbols to convey meaning; and of course the device's flagrant use of electricity. Face it, they were asking for this.
    • Do you realise quite how much you sound like Douglas Adams' writing in the H2G2?

      I can almost hear Simon Jones voice saying "flaaaygrant use of elec'tricity"

      J.
    • the buttons; the plastic casing; the use of symbols to convey meaning; and of course the device's flagrant use of electricity. Face it, they were asking for this.

      You're missing the most obvious violation -- they're screaming over at the Blackberry Growers Association over the confusion this device causes in the average consumer who is accustomed to the juicy sweetness (with a hint of tartness) of a "properly" produced Blackberry(TM).

      This unpleasantly plasticky, painfully crunchy and bitter-tasting produc
  • The only way the insanity of the current patent system will get sorted out is if it claims high profile corporate victims.

    No one in power will ever listen to a bunch of geeks complaining about patented media formats. We need more and more corporates to be bitten on the ass by submarine patents.

    So I for one hope the Blackberry does infringe patents. I hope IBM, Sony and any other high tech corporations you can think of get stung with frivolous lawsuits too. I hope someone, somewhere, has patented "usi

  • Bad News.... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by zappepcs ( 820751 ) on Thursday June 30, 2005 @09:40AM (#12950120) Journal
    I hate to break the news, but the RIM/Blackberry has a patent on the arched keyboard it has. This prevents any other wireless handheld maker from using anything but the less than ergonomic square keyboard layout. Now, having patents can be good, and I'm not saying there isn't value in this one, but I do think that its time for patent holders to stop crying foul all the time. Mediation before litigation, and let the public (via /.-like metamoderation) decide what is fair and what isn't. After all, protecting innovation is one of the tennents of the patent system. The government is also meddling with the marketplace in order to foster competition and quality pricing.... but I think they stifle it more often then foster it. Time for public opinion to be more involved in the making of patent issuance and infringement mediation.
  • I find it rediculous that we have a patent system that allows companies to simply hold patents that it does not use. Its ludicrous that you can make up some idea, patent it, not do a single thing to directly profit off it, then wait for some company to "steal" your idea and sue them.
    This crap is the #1 reason our society isn't sustainable, this loss of money to NTP, from RIM, from RIM's customers is wasteful, they're getting money for doing NOTHING.
    Welcome to America, home of the lazy.

  • definitely (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    It definitely infringes my US patent on "doing things by pressing buttons" in numerous ways.
  • As it's not mentioned in the summary, and nobody here with any "street cred." RTFAs, I thought I might throw you all the following link [rim.com].

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