High School Kids Beat MIT at Robotics Competition 597
An anonymous writer submitted a story saying "A bunch of bright high school kids from Carl Hayden Highschool beat out MIT in a Marine Technology Center's Robotics competition.
Here are additional details of the competition."
Look out!! (Score:3, Funny)
Future MIT students (Score:5, Insightful)
Doesn't say much for education (Score:5, Interesting)
Even granting that, it would indicate that said MIT education didn't make them any better. And think, all those student loans for nothing? ;)
Obviously the entire story is somewhat facetious.
Re:Doesn't say much for education (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Doesn't say much for education (Score:5, Insightful)
Although I don't use (and in some cases understand
And the half that I _do_ use turned out be useful at occasionally very unexpected places. So I'm hopeful that I might be able to use some of the other half at some point in my future.
Re:Doesn't say much for education (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Doesn't say much for education (Score:4, Funny)
Academics != education != real world effectiveness (Score:3, Interesting)
I see the results in the people I deal with in industry. As a generalisation, most of the PhDs I deal with are less produc
Re:Doesn't say much for education (Score:3, Funny)
Exactly.
I got my degree in math, and I doubt I'll use the fact that I not only understand, but can prove
The generalized Stokes Theorem [planetmath.org].
However, the fact that I can read a sentence consisting of primarily goofy symbols even worse that the linked one makes me
Re:Doesn't say much for education (Score:3, Insightful)
OTOH I think you can learn things in college. The ultimate goal may be just to have that piece of paper for your resume, but you do have to sit through classes and stuff. It's all what you make of it.
Re:Doesn't say much for education (Score:4, Insightful)
So, I'm honestly not certain what the extra $$$ gets for you, at least in engineering. It's probably somewhat easier to get into good grad schools (which does make all the difference in the world), but even that effect is not especially pronounced. Two people in my graduating class went directly into MIT's PhD program. Probably the main things are networking (both with profs and other students), ego, and atmosphere.
Re:Doesn't say much for education (Score:5, Interesting)
I think you have it quite backwards and this is due to the current folklore surrounding colleges such as Harvard, Stanford, MIT, etc. The common folklore is pretty much what you stated: professors don't teach classes, TAs do, and that it's all about 'the name' of attending the school.
I attend one of these 'highly ranked' institutions and it has been a great experience. I've never had a class taught by a TA. In fact, all of my classes are taught by the professor. The big name professors are even willing to teach small seminars. For example, at Stanford, Osheroff (physics Nobel) teaches a small seminar that's related to optics and photography (one of his hobbies). Outside of lecture, one may deal with the TAs more, but most of the questions one would ask are adequately answered by the TAs. If one requires the professor's assistance, it might take some effort to setup a meeting time, but I've always seen them try hard to make time for students.
Here's how I view the difference between a 'top' institution and your typical state school: one will get the same education at both schools. There's a huge caveat to this, that being at a state school, one will probably have to expend a good amount of effort to ensure that he receives the same education. For example, at Caltech, the math core that all students must take is far beyond any typical math requirement at a state school, and if one attended a state school, he would have to spend more effort to find the correct difficult courses to take.
So, why pay the exorbitant amount of money to attend a so-called prestigious university? One word: opportunity. The opportunities afforded at a top university are exponentially greater than other schools. The top professors within the field have lots of knowledge to share; there is a great chance to network with both the faculty and one's peers. Definitely, as you mentioned, atmosphere is key, because everyone at these schools went there as "overachievers" (not that they are all overachievers, but they all share some type of 'drive' - if you get my gist) and being in such an environment, simple conversations can lead to interesting studies. I feel that the big difference in the opportunities available at a big-name school is research at the frontier with lots of available resources. At a small state school, if one wishes to do research in any field, the odds of finding a professor with a similar interest who is at the cutting edge and has resources to share is significantly smaller than at a top university where there are more research dollars coming in and cutting edge work happening every day. In addition, having the most current research being conducted at one's school allows more opportunities to see the frontier and learn about it in class. Finally, there is a great opportunity to listen and learn from others that one could not do at a state school. Big-name schools can draw people like Howard Dean or Bill Clinton or [insert visionary/scientist/social mover/etc. here] to speak at the school. While it's possible for a small state university to do so, I doubt you'll see Fresno State or whoever pull in more than one or two of such speakers a year whereas at Harvard, such people would be coming in year-round.
Being able to do cutting edge work while learning in an atmosphere geared toward higher education and having the interaction with great professors and people is the difference. Whether or not one thinks it's worth it to pay big bucks to get that difference is an individual choice.
Re:Doesn't say much for education (Score:3, Interesting)
I went to Camelback High School (Boo, Carl Hayden!) and then MIT. I was valedictorian of my high school but, like many, only a member of the rank and file at MIT. My point is, like Dirty Harry once said, "A man's got to know his limitations." I certainly learned mine at MIT; I wonder if I would have at ASU.
Continuing in that direction, I'll recall the firehose analogy. Getting an education at MIT h
Re:Doesn't say much for education (Score:3, Insightful)
I do believe, though, that it comes down to the individual's desire to learn and interest in being successful. I gr
Re:Sad (Score:5, Insightful)
Could have if they'd wanted. If you didn't want an overlap there, then no problem. I'm just bored with people whining about it and claiming college is worthless. It's worth what you put into it. If you get nothing out, well, that should say something.
Education, learning, and knowledge can't be spoon fed. Just made available.
Re:Doesn't say much for education (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Doesn't say much for education (Score:3, Interesting)
This reminds me of Good Will Hunting. LOL. "You could have got your Harvard education for 10 cents in library late fee's".
I agree, I have met many people from the MIT's of the world, and they don't really impress me as better human beings than I've met elsewhere. In some cases, they were complete asshats. The problem is, everyone in highschool knows the next best
Re:Doesn't say much for education (Score:3, Funny)
That's not true - they went to MIT.
Re:Doesn't say much for education (Score:4, Interesting)
On the other hand, it's also possible that there was a lower standard for a bunch of high school kids, whether intentionally or not. Let's face it, seeing some ghetto mexican kid spouting off about fluid dynamics and phase shift of helium aargon lasers is damned impressive -- much more so than a couple college students speaking at the same level, and that could certainly have been a factor.
Anyway, considering that the MIT kids probably didn't start college as physics prodigies like christian or skilled in mechanics like the guy I'm too lazy to check the article for the name of, they certainly got their money's worth -- I know how to program reasonably well, does that mean that people who get compSci degrees are wasting their money? Others are great at electrical without schooling, does that mean that I'm wasting my money in EE? No. If it did, then we wouldn't have schools.
These are not Future MIT students (Score:5, Insightful)
These students come from disadvantaged backgrounds and are unable to get into MIT. Half of them have graduated and they are not getting further education as they cannot afford it.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:These are not Future MIT students (Score:5, Informative)
----
Oscar wipes the white gypsum dust from his face. It's a hot Tuesday afternoon in Phoenix, and he's hanging sheetrock. He graduated from Carl Hayden last spring, and this is the best work he can find. He enjoys walking into the half-built homes and analyzing the engineering. He thinks it'll keep him sharp until he can save up enough money to study engineering at Arizona State University. It will cost him approximately $50,000 as an out-of-state student. That's a lot of sheet-rocking.
Luis also graduated and is filing papers in a Phoenix Social Security Services office. Cristian and Lorenzo are now juniors. Their families can barely support themselves, let alone raise the money to send their kids to college. Last summer, Cristian's hopes flagged even further when his family was forced to spend $3,000 to replace the decrepit air-conditioning unit in their aluminum trailer. Without AC, the trailer turns into a double-wide oven in the desert heat.
----
And they're not alone. Approximately 60,000 undocumented students graduate from US high schools every year. One promising solution, according to Cameron and other advocates for immigrant kids, is the Dream Act, federal legislation that would give in-state tuition and temporary resident status to undocumented students who graduate from a US high school after being enrolled in the States for five years or more. The bill, which was introduced in 2003 and is slated to be resubmitted this spring, aims to give undocumented students a reason to stay in school. If they do, the act promises financial assistance for college. In turn, immigrants would pay taxes and be able to contribute their talents to the US.
Some immigration activists don't see it that way. Ira Mehlman, the Los Angeles-based media director for the Federation for American Immigration Reform, successfully lobbied against the legislation last year. He says it will put citizens and legal immigrants in direct competition for the limited number of seats at state colleges. "What will you say," he asks, "to an American kid who does not get into a state university and whose family cannot afford a private college because that seat and that subsidy have been given to someone who is in the country illegally?"
Re:These are not Future MIT students (Score:5, Interesting)
Seriously, if they were legal citizens, I know there are lots of scholarships out there for hispanics particularly, and probably particularly for engineering too. MIT would be well within reach if they were legal citizens.
Re:These are not Future MIT students (Score:4, Insightful)
Sucks to be these kids though, their parents probably dragged them along as little kids when they decided to break the law themselves.
Re:These are not Future MIT students (Score:3, Informative)
Re:These are not Future MIT students (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:These are not Future MIT students (Score:4, Insightful)
The United States would be forever improved by accepting immigrants, making them citizens (gotta have those taxes), allowing them to become educated (not the same as just giving them an education; that's a whole other can of worms I do not wish to open) and helping them to become successful in our nation. There will ALWAYS be poorer or uneducated US citizens and immigrants to "provide cheap Wal*Mart labor", for a variety of reasons. You can look at it as a renewable workforce. This way, at least, there will be less competition for AVAILABLE low-end jobs for both groups with the possibility of making your way up the ladder through hard work. Poorer families won't be stuck in a poverty cycle, and can better their situation, or at least the situation for their descendants, and their position will be filled by others when they leave, be it a native citizen who's fallen on hard times, or another immigrant-turned-citizen.
My point is, after that long-winded argument, is that the US will be better improved through aid and human rights than by a self-perpetuating low-income slave class of illegal immigrants.
"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me. I lift my lamp beside the golden door."
Re:These are not Future MIT students (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:These are not Future MIT students (Score:4, Insightful)
Same goes for illegal immigrants - if they are here because they want to work and do a good job and stay off of the public dole, more power to them and I have no problem with that.
Re:These are not Future MIT students (Score:3, Insightful)
Hear hear! God knows our tax dollars shouldn't be used to support the demonstrably smart, hard-working children of illegal immigrants when it can go to people who haven't done anything to merit it besides being born in the right borders.
Re:These are not Future MIT students (Score:5, Insightful)
How about on theirs, then? It's not like illegal immigrants don't pay sales tax, the primary source of state funding. You know, the state funding that supports state colleges. I'm sure that they likely don't pay federal income tax, but then, many citizens in their tax bracket get more back than they pay in, due to tax credits and such.
Chances are, they pay more taxes than citizens of equal means, without getting nearly as many benefits. Did you mean that you didn't want citizens to go to college on your tax dollars, either?
Re:These are not Future MIT students (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:These are not Future MIT students (Score:3, Insightful)
So do poor citizens. Yet I don't hear you complaining about them. Do you honestly think that illegal aliens are illegal because of the tax benefits? That all those people are just trying to avoid filing their 1040EZ?
There are proper channels that an illegal can take to become legal, either with a green card or citizenship.
Yeah, we make it so easy. Just pop on over to the INS on a Thursday afternoon and pledge allegiance to the flag. Ask anyone who has become a
I want to go to college too! (Score:5, Insightful)
Seriously. When I tried to get financial aid, I was awarded $200 in work-study, which doesn't even cover books for half a semester. It is difficult to apply for school, when you can't even pay your rent!
Re:I want to go to college too! (Score:5, Insightful)
What state do you live in? In most states, if you spend two years at an ALMOST FREE Community College, you are granted automatic admission into a 4yr school. Do you have any idea how much Grant/Loan money for higher education goes un-used every year?
I suggest you are not trying hard enough. Getting an education in America is easy, provided you are willing to work your ass off to get it done.
Heard of Google? I suggest you get busy, or stop BS'ing us about how hard it is to pay for College. You are not trying hard enough. If you are in a situation where you cant, or can barely pay your rent, you can probably end up in a Community College FREE OF CHARGE. So, get on it.
Re:Living in a factory... (Score:4, Funny)
Come on, man! If you can't afford the o and the r, why are you splurging on an apostrophe?
Think of the children!
Re:I want to go to college too! (Score:3, Interesting)
Junior College, and get a better paying job. I worked in bike shops, then moved up to a computer system operator job ( initially, it was not a move up in pay, but later, it was... ).
Save like mad.
I made it thru Mesa ( junior college here in San Diego ), then transfered to UCSD for my "junior" and "senior" years ( I had to go part time, as I had to continue to work "thanks, Pete Wilson, for the tuition spike just as I entered UCSD", so those "years" were about 4 in total... ).
It is po
Re:These are not Future MIT students (Score:2, Insightful)
"Study harder next time, dickhead."
An obvious piece of advocacy journalism. (Score:5, Insightful)
- Over four pages of coverage of an extrordinary accomplishment by four extraordiarily talented and hard-working undocumented immigrant children.
- Most of the fifth page lamenting their financial handicap and plugging a particular federal bill to give MILLIONS of illegal-immigrant children a place at the federal tit and an entitlement to further boost the drain on the taxpayers pocketbooks - with a hefty chunk of the cashflow siphoned off to pay for more beaucrats.
- A copule sentences on how such a program would rip college opportunities out of the hands of other children who are citizens - whose parents are already being taxed - sometimes into poverty - to pay for the institutions and scholarships that would be transferred to the illegals.
Yes it stinks for the kids who built the 'bot - and others like them. But how many similar stories DIDN'T get told about rural-poor US citizen kids who performed similar feats, with similar lack of resources?
It's NOT rare. For starters, if you hang out at NASA for any length of time you'll notice that a LOT of "rocket scientists" are from such backgrounds. Many have such stories to tell. (And in NASA's heyday the educational opporiunities for a kid who was rural, southern, or (horrors!) both were comparable to those of these kids.)
Creating a new entitlement program will redistribute the resources differently but not increase them overall. Further, with the mismanagement and overhead typical of government programs, it's likely to destroy far more opportunities than it creates.
Children who are US citizens are already at a signficant disadvantage to immigrants and student-visa holders. The latter tend to get financial aid as grants - even if they are children of the rich - while the former are left with mostly loans which must be paid off at interest or suplemented by low-paid jobs that take time from study. Tuition has become so astronomical that in many fields the citizens are just dropping out, as the lifetime benefit of the education is exceeded by its unsubsidized cost.
Are we to believe that these four are typical, rather than extrordinary? (There are extrordinary individuals in all large populations.) Are we to believe the children of illegal immigrants are so much MORE competent than the children of citizens that more good than harm will come from from transferring educational opportunites from the latter to the former, dropping a bunch of them through the cracks on the way?
In order to press for a government solution, the story carefully ignores (except to belittle in passing) private sector aid. There are an enormous number of private scholarship programs and private charatable foundations with scholarship programs, with an explosion of criteria for who they will help. (The tax system makes it profitable to create them, and has for decades. And people whos story is like that of these kids who finally make it often create leg-up funds for others like themselves.) They're not well known. But for kids with track records like these there are likely to be hundreds of them that might fund them through school.
IMHO the real tragedy here is that the educational institution (with the gleeful aid of the media) did NOT help these kids dig up private funding. Instead it left them in low-paying jobs and is using their plight to push for legislation to feather its own nest.
Meanwhile, the MIT administration really ought to be busting their butts to dig up scholarship money for these kids. (Especially if they remember what the Model Railroad Club wrought.) Four children of migrant workers who, while still in highschool, beat their team with $800 to buy balloons, tampons, and PVC pipe should be the star recruits for their next freshman class.
Re:These are not Future MIT students (Score:5, Insightful)
At MIT in particular, more than 75% of students receive financial aid, and ALL of it is based on their financial need. Scholarships, in the merit-based sense, do not substantially exist at MIT--or most top schools. The barrier for attending these schools, at least for those who have managed to overcome barriers they have faced before the admissions process, is a merit-based barrier, and not a financial one.
What schools, such as MIT as well as the college I attend, figure is that anyone who has demonstrated that they should be accepted to the institution has demonstrated that they deserve a "scholarship," so the funds go to those who need it most. It's not like at a large state school, where there is a tier of smart kids, and a tier of not-so-smart kids. If you can get into MIT, you're smart, and choosing scholarship recipients based on merit would involve splitting hairs.
Re:These are not Future MIT students (Score:3, Interesting)
Additionally, and on topic, I think that there should be one set of rules concerning those who immigrate as adults under their own volition, and those who came as minors with their families and are trying to be productive.
As far as I'm concerned, these kids deserve a chance--as do any others. I think they should be allowed to become citizens with a minimum of hassle--as long as they aren't in trouble for breaking other laws. Here's what I would suggest be the criteria:
1. Be employed
Re:Future MIT students (Score:5, Informative)
Carl Hayden has a nice computer-oriented "magnet" program that attracts a lot of nerds, probably the same that won this competition.
Re:Future MIT students (Score:2)
The problem I saw with the MIT guys was that they are far too inclusive, and egos run riot. Each individual person was smart, but didnt nessasarily "interoperate" with each other. Whereas these high school kids, may have more social interoperat
Scholarships? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Scholarships? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Scholarships? (Score:2, Informative)
Yes, they do (Score:3, Informative)
Not true. MIT gave me many scholarships when I was there and I they continue to give scholarships as well (they explicitly list scholarships as a category that alumni can donate to when they run fundraising drives, so they haven't stopped the practice). I didn't get the scholarships because I was particularly bright, but rather because of financial need. Financial need alone is enough to get you a scholarship once you are admitted, though I have a feeling that might not appl
what's the news here? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:what's the news here? (Score:2)
But schools like MIT do everything they can to segregate intellect. They only select the "brightest" and the "best". They pick through thousands of applications, looking for the best grades, toughest curriculum, and highest test scores.
So, how come they failed against some high school kids? What happened to the Feynmans?
The private university only has 1 true purpose for exsisting. It is a segregated place where the legacies of the rich and powerful ca
Re:what's the news here? (Score:2)
That's odd. I would have said that the kind of computer programming learned at most colleges is *exactly* the sort of thing that is outdated (or worse, irrelevant) when you move into the commercial IT world.
Re:what's the news here? (Score:3, Insightful)
Those things I tossed out were the first things that came to mind, you will certainly learn more difficult subject matter in any Data Structures and Algos course. And don't underestimate their complexity. A lot of people can't wrap their head around algebra, let alone linking schemes or big-O notation, etc...
You can certainly learn anything you want outside of a college. I hate colleges, in fact. However,
Wow! (Score:5, Insightful)
For one, I hope the media picks this up, not just Wired. I hope they get as much visibility as they can, on their plight, the lives they live and their achievements. We have all heard and read of ordinary people who surmounted amazing odds to claim their personal victories, but seemingly they happen far less and few in between. What this country need to know is despite poverty, crime and the potential to go wrong, not one, but four kids chose the right, but tough path. And they should be commended for that till kingdom come.
But for what we have seen, the INS would pick them up next week and hand them back to a grateful Mexico.
Re:Wow! (Score:3, Insightful)
It is nearly science fair season... I must dust off my judging clothes :)
Re:Wow! (Score:2)
One can always hope.
Here's a new one for you to hand-wring over:
Is this evidence of a Mexican "brain-drain" phoenomenon?
Re:Wow! (Score:2, Insightful)
Before this deteriorates in to a Pro/Anti Immigration flame fest...
How could that possibly happen? Where do you think all those MIT students come from?
The truth... (Score:5, Insightful)
I also can't help but think what a loss to their original country they are. America has a way of luring the smartest and most hard working people here with the hopes of a better life. And the country where they came from losses one more leader, one more person who could have had an impact.
It is like the USA is the Yankee's of world baseball. We don't have to grow our own talent. We can buy it elsewhere. And then, what do we give back to other countries? We open HUGE factories where we move jobs, like when GM closed the plants in Michigan and moved them to Mexico because people there would work for pennies on the dollar.
What does this say about how the world is being organized?
not surprised (Score:3, Funny)
I would think the MIT crowd would be used to beatings by now.
Re:not surprised (Score:2)
Yeah but this is college... (Score:3, Funny)
Lets do some real college science. MIT is too busy building the worlds tallest and most complex beer bong. Now THAT'S cool.
Re:Yeah but this is college... (Score:2)
Re:Yeah but this is college... (Score:4, Funny)
My ex-gang member high-school electronics whiz can beat your MIT graduate student in Battle Bots!
Re:Yeah but this is college... (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Tough Competition (Score:3, Funny)
Not suprised... (Score:2, Insightful)
Start making them citizens (Score:4, Insightful)
These kids are exactly the kind of people we should be encouraging to come to this country; smart, clever, hard-working, creative.
Yet they are here illegally, and something needs to be done about that. If these kids are as smart as the article suggests (and I have no reason to believe otherwise), attaining citizenship shouldn't be particularly taxing.
Re:Start making them citizens (Score:2, Funny)
(then again, maybe I shouldn't ask too loud
Re:Start making them citizens (Score:5, Insightful)
It just so happens Americans (and thus, politicians) need to figure out what the policy is going to actually be regarding illegal immigrants. Because at some point, all of the following are true:
1.) they don't generate tax revenue for the services they are receiving... and what they are paid is woefully inadequate by U.S. standards
2.) they are generally capable workers
3.) they are generally putting themselves at great bodily danger to risk later eviction
4.) most states have stopped servicing immigrants.
In spite of the fact that in those same states, the immigrants are doing the jobs that Americans won't take.
So we have demand for work that goes undone, supply in the form of willing workers, and ridiculous policies in the middle that reinforce all four points above.
Can you tell I'm in favor of a cross-border working program?
Re:Start making them citizens (Score:2, Insightful)
I'm afraid I have to throw the flag on that.
Those aren't "jobs that Americans won't take". Those are "jobs that companies won't pay Americans to do".
Companies pay illegal immigrants peanuts because they are allowed to; because law enforcement doesn't go after companies that hire illegal immigrants.
If the FBI (or whomever handles these issues now) would actually crack down on companies that
Re:Start making them citizens (Score:2)
You missed the word `over' from just before `pay'.
Re:Start making them citizens (Score:2)
Well, we could try arresting them.
In all seriousness, don't make a law that you don't intend to enforce. There are good reasons for restricting immigration. Sure, there could be exceptions for bright/hard-working people, but these should also be in the laws.
VERY cool! (Score:5, Informative)
At the time, the school was part of a "Magnet Program," a program designed to desegregate the schools and attract more of us "white boys" to the school. We had labs of true IBMs and Compaq PCs, and had classes available for learning programming like BASIC, Pascal, and towards the end C. They had a "State of the art" 3com ethernet, that to see any changes on the server you had log out and back in again. They even had a VAX/VMS system. Quite advanced for a High School, probably even by todays standards.
They're responsible for keeping me from having to work some boring regular job. Now I get to listen to users all day!
The kids' future (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, I know they are illegal immigrants. But, they are still kids with hopes and dreams.
experts vs. newcomers (Score:5, Insightful)
On the other side, this may just be an excuse for my laziness
Sad (Score:3, Interesting)
Really sad. Not that some high school kids can build better robots than the MIT. But that they beat the MIT in the 'Technical Report' category is really sad.
I also find it amusing that the MIT would enter a competition that seems to be targeted towards high schools. Or should I find that sad too?
Re:Sad (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Sad (Score:3, Informative)
Ockham's(Occam's) Razor (Score:4, Insightful)
They simplified many of the concepts in the design , to finaly produce a much sleaker robot with a greater performance
The design seems wonderuflly direct and simple , a good example of occam's razor in the eveloution of robots "dont add more than you need
PS:"i apoligise if i missed something TFA is loading at a snails pace for me
Best Quote from the Article (Score:5, Funny)
"Why don't you have a PowerPoint display?" he asked.
"PowerPoint is a distraction," Cristian replied. "People use it when they don't know what to say."
"And you know what to say?"
"Yes, sir."
DAMN!!!
Followup (Score:5, Insightful)
Forget ExxonMobil (Score:5, Funny)
Competition scores (Score:2)
Interesting scores.
The MIT team gets 3rd lowest score on engineering, but the highest score on actually performing the competition tasks.
The illegal immigrants' team gets 2nd highest score on engineering and highest score on technical report.
How does a bunch of spanish speaking illegal immigrants write a better technical report than MIT students?
Re:Competition scores (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Competition scores (Score:2)
One can assume that for the Spanish speaking folks, English is a second language. For the MIT student, English is fifth or sixth, right behind FORTH...
Typical of Engineers (Score:5, Insightful)
Engineering Eval:
Carl Hayden: 53.17
MIT: 44.67
Tech Report:
Carl Hayden: 20.25
MIT: 17
Team Display:
Carl Hayden: 13.5
MIT: 8
Mission Task:
Carl Hayden: 32
MIT: 48
Total:
Carl Hayden: 118.92
MIT: 117.67
MIT lost because they didn't care enough about their display:)
Apparently they were a little too myopic about the task.
As an engineer myself, it figures:)
Re:Typical of Engineers (Score:3, Interesting)
So the real story is, MIT beat the high school kids by 50% in the only objective scoring category of the competition. Why is this news?
What about MIT's engineering failures? (Score:3, Interesting)
"Illegal" Immigration (Score:5, Insightful)
If you don't live anywhere near the border, it is probably impossible for you to imagine what has happened over the past two decades in this country. Without any honest debate or policy making, we have entirely, almost formally abdicated the southern border of the United States. Literally millions of "visitors" from other countries now live here. The debate is no longer whether to try to "strengthen the border" but whether or not to give their children driver's licenses and scholarships.
What we have done is create a de-facto second class of U.S. citizen, a "sub citizen" that provides a convenient array of features to business in the southern U.S..
Now the avalanche of "issues:" xenophobia, debates about free trade and freedom of movement, patriotism and racism, classism, corny high-school economic ideologies and horse-and-barn-door-ism. The person writing this article seems to have a clear conclusion, after having spent some time in the midst of the issue: these kids are Americans, and we should treat them like Americans. The thing it makes me think of is that many of our reasoned beliefs (especially those coming from farther up in the chilly north) about what we should do about the "illegal immigration" problem - whether they are principled, right, wrong, or crazy - are often a bit divorced from reality, and most ultimately lead to perpetuation of the status quo: the institutional ghetto, the second-class citizen, and the end of what we love, these days, to lionize as the American Dream.
Soap series? (Score:2)
FTA: "He wasn't used to approaching women, let alone well-dressed white women. He saw apprehension flash across her face. Maybe she thought he was trying to sell magazines or candy bars, but he steeled himself..."
Not quite
Educate Crimaliens (Score:4, Interesting)
Stop complaining and do something! (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/13.04/donate.h
Want to make a difference. Click the link give the amount you spent on that iPod, Xbox, PS2, or any even GTA. If evey one that posted a message gave $200 there would be 20,000 dollars already in the account.
Even if you can not pony up the $200 how about 20?
If you think "somebody" should help these guys be somebody.
Re:Stop complaining and do something! (Score:3, Insightful)
[troll]And by doing something you mean giving these four kids money?
That is on par with the logic of starving a hundred thousand iraqui children to death through sanctions and not giving a flying f*ck, while the same happening to one braindead woman causes the whole country to stop.[/troll]
Magnet Programs (Score:4, Insightful)
This is a great article because it shows that if you pour money into education, no matter what the background of the students, they will excell. Ofcourse when I graduated highschool in the Phoenix Union HS District (same as Carl Hayden), the statistics were against any HS graduates actually graduating from college. (As far as I understood it, out of the 5-10% that went to college, only 1 in 10 would graduate... this was from a long time teacher in the PUHSD) Sure we got scholarships, but very very few of us were prepared for the amount of reading, writing, and studying required for college. There were plenty of people like me that were competent in our respective fields, but could not handle the rest of the classes (the humanities for me).
As the article mentioned, most of the graduates of this school go on to become day laborers or work in a warehouse, and even if they do go to college, their chances of getting a degree are slim to none. I hope the federal and state governments take a tougher stance on school funding and realisticly look at what is needed to make sure every student has the opportunity to succeede.
Almost all of the PUHSD schools focus on getting the bottom more towards the middle then the middle up towards the top. Which leaves us with a weak middle, which in turn creates a less educated middle class.
I read this in Wired (Score:4, Interesting)
But it's still a great story.
As an aside, shouldn't someone with some money to throw around help these kids pay for college? As illegals, they aren't eligible for financial aid (nor should they be, but wouldn't this be a great situtation for someone like Mark Cuban?
MIT's Motto - Mens et Manus - Mind AND Hands (Score:3, Insightful)
As the cost of an MIT degree continues to spiral above inflation, does MIT continue to attract students that have the "Manus" part?
The article says:
I would argue that Lorenzo's hands-on experience was a key factor in his team's success.
I wonder how many of MIT's students arrive as freshman with hands-on skills? I would guess that this number has been declining over the years.
When I was a freshman at MIT, I remember fixing an old stereo on my desk. One of my eletrical engineering classmates, an absolute math genius, who had already aced the intro eletrical engineering class, asked, "Hey, what are those little things with stripes on them that you've got there?" I said, "You're kidding, right? Those are resistors, you know, "R" in all the problems you've been doing." "Oh", he said, "I'd never seen a real one before."
Mens ET Manus -- Gotta have both to be a world-class engineer. Congratulations to the "La Vida Robot" team for having what it takes!
Re:article says MIT 1st; high school 3rd (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Last Laugh. (Score:2)
What, do you think that this sort of achievement won't win them entry into one of the top schools? MIT is not the only thing out there nor is it necessarily the best for your purposes.
Re:You are all idiots. Look at the date (Score:2)
Let me guess- the latest issue is the April edition? And, as we all know, Wired is above pulling April Fool's pranks. But since you bravely posted as Anonymous Coward, I expect that you'd conveniently vanish if I proved you wrong.
Re:bleh (Score:2)
Re:They should make a movie out of this. (Score:3, Insightful)