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Displays

Dell Enters HDTV Market with Plasma Display 285

Posted by timothy from the pushing-pixels dept.
ThinSkin writes "It was only a matter of time before PC giant Dell would jump headlong into the HDTV market. But what does a company built around making inexpensive PCs know about HDTVs? ExtremeTech has done a full review with benchmarks on Dell's offering, the Dell W4200HD 42" Plasma HDTV."
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Dell Enters HDTV Market with Plasma Display More

Dell Enters HDTV Market with Plasma Display

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  • Oh no, the tuner scare again (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 23, 2005 @03:11PM (#11758698)
    having the ATSC tuner built in is a big plus, since a standalone ATSC tuner will set you back another $200-300

    Blah! I have to say that the cost of a tuner is either in or out of the price. I mean that if a TV sells for $3000 with a tuner than I bet a bargain based TV will sell for $2700-$2800 without a tuner. The cost doesn't magically go away. Besides I like the tuner to be outside the TV so I can upgrade one component for a little money verses buying a whole new TV when (I-Z)DTV comes out or when I want new features that haven't been invented yet. Read tuner not tuna, so no dolphins were injured in the making of this post.
    • Having a built in tuner is a feature added component. It doesn't lock you into using that tuner as long as the TV has the same inputs as the tunerless model (DVI, HDMI, Components, etc...) If you are going to have to buy external tuner 1 for the same price as the increase for the internal tuner you might as well reduce the number of cables/remotes and just get the included tuner.

      If your cable company provides a tuner for a cheap rental fee, that is when you may want to save the money on no internal tuna.

      • Re:Oh no, the tuner scare again (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Kevin Stevens ( 227724 ) <kevstev@gmail. c o m> on Wednesday February 23, 2005 @03:49PM (#11759091)
        Well, I have experienced four different providers in the past year (time warner in upstate ny, cablevision on LI, comcast in NJ, and RCN in NJ) and to get cable HDTV, each service needed you to use one of their boxes which have the tuner built in. This is not to say that you can't get it over the air, but presumably if youre buying a high end tv, you are going to be getting digital cable. For the low end market I agree with including tuners, but on high end HDTV's 40" and over, I would rather save the space, weight, and price and have the speakers and tuners left out. Its just a completely different market.

  • They do it well (Score:5, Interesting)

    by erick99 ( 743982 ) <homerun@gmail.com> on Wednesday February 23, 2005 @03:11PM (#11758699)
    Dell is a smart company that runs a lean & mean R&D machine. They seemingly put a lot of thought into new product introduction as well as price point. These folks are going to be hellish successful for a long time. It doesn't really matter much what product they are putting out, they seem to do it well. Hate 'em or love 'em, you gotta admire them.

    They are particularly good about not reinventing the wheel, rather, working with other vendors or manufacturers who have already figured it out (so to speak) and then putting the Dell spin on it if needed. Once again, a pretty cool business process from my point of view.

    As an aside, I don't work for Dell and I don't buy their products (I like Sony Vaio's and HP printers for some reason) but I do admire their business acumen and their business models. (I do, however, have extreme HDTV Plasma Display envy).

    • If they're so smart, why do they still use AMD, use such horrible motherboards in their systems that my old 667mhz Micron outperforms my 866mhz Dell by 50% in 3Dmark03 (when the same graphics card is used in both), and still insist on the stupid "Dude you're getting a Dell" line?

    • Re:They do it well (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Mantorp ( 142371 ) <mantorp 'funny A' gmail.com> on Wednesday February 23, 2005 @03:14PM (#11758731) Homepage Journal
      Dell is a smart company that runs a lean & mean R&D machine

      If that means "Dell doesn't really invent anything they just take already good ideas and commoditize them", then I agree.

      • Plasma short lifespan... (Score:5, Interesting)

        by cayenne8 ( 626475 ) on Wednesday February 23, 2005 @03:22PM (#11758811) Homepage Journal
        I dunno. Unless plasma TV have gotten a lot better...I don't want one. I guess I'm old school, but, when I lay out money for a nice, large TV, I expect to get more than 2-3 years use out of them. We have plasma tv's in the lobbies of the bldgs I work at...they're on during the day on the news channels. They have to be replace almost annually as you can see where the logos and talking heads of people are....the first ones were early ones at $25K each...cheaper now, but, still. My $2K 60' projection tv has a great picture on it in my living room...is on every hour I'm at home...and doesn't have the problem with display degradation over such a short period of time.

        Are LCD tv's any better?

        If I'm gonna lay out over $3K...I expect a tv that will still be working well for at least 5-10 years. All my old ones did....

        • Re:Plasma short lifespan... (Score:2, Informative)

          by Anonymous Coward
          Are LCD tv's any better?

          Yes. They don't burn in images.

          You're 100% right, Plasma TVs are not worth buying unless you are the type of person who buys a new TV every year anyway.
        • I'm asking myself these same questions. I'll soon be in the market for a big ass TV and I started doing a little research. As thin and light as plasma TVs are, their price doesn't exactly make them disposable.

          Are there any issues with burn-in on the HD projection TVs? Can you play video games on them without loss of picture quality?

          From what I understand, LCD TVs don't have these problems, however they're not exactly cheap.

          • Maybe you want to look into low profile CRT then. They aren't QUITE on the market yet, but neither are you, from what I understand. They are cabable of getting a bit larger viewing area than standard CRTs, and have less depth (physically, not colorwise.) They also have better color/contrast/brightness/viewing angle than LCD/Plasma. Of course they will cost a bit more than standard CRTs, but less than LCD/Plasma. I haven't heard anything about how well they hold up, though. Haven't been able to find mu
            • "Seriously, If there is so little room in the house that you NEED flat panel, then you probably won't be able to sit far enough from the screen that you need anything larger than 36". Unless you just want to show people how much disposable cash you have. And if you're looking to impress, girls would probably be more impressed with you spending money on a good set of copper pans and learning how to cook well enough that you can actually use them.

              I dunno...if you're very nearsighted...big tv in a small room

        • I don't get the plasm hype aside from the gee wiz factor because someone actually dropped all that cash for one.

          If you need a thin TV go with LCD or DLP. Plasmas are heavy as hell, typically have lower resolution, and they burn in (I've heard that this is a myth, and I've heard that its true).

          I've got a 46" HDTV RPTV, and the picture is amazing. It has better resolution than both models of these Dells.

      • Re:They do it well (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Jerf ( 17166 )
        And that implies Dell isn't a smart company, how? Like the guy said, sounds like a good business model to me.
    • Dell is a smart company that runs a lean & mean R&D machine.

      Dell might be a well run company. But, a "lean & Mean R&D machine"? I don't think so. Dell isn't known for inventing new products. They are known for taking someone else's invention and using their supply chain advantage to put that someone else out of business.

      • Repeat & Duplicate!

      • Re:They do it well (Score:3, Informative)

        by CodeBuster ( 516420 )
        That is not necessarily true. The pieces that Dell brings to the table are, as you mention, comparative advantages in their supply chain, superior marketing and brand awareness, and a hyper efficient delivery and distribution system. One company does the R&D and licenses the design/specifications, another company does the actual fabrication/manufacturing, and the third company, Dell in this case, does the marketing, branding, and distribution. Each of these companies is specialized in their particular a
      • Dell is a smart company that runs a lean & mean R&D machine. They seemingly put a lot of thought into new product introduction as well as price point. These folks are going to be hellish successful for a long time. It doesn't really matter much what product they are putting out, they seem to do it well. Hate 'em or love 'em, you gotta admire them.

      You are not alone in admiring Dell. Fortune magazine [fortune.com] has named Dell as #1 on their annual list of most admired companies [msn.com].

    • Re:They do it well (Score:3, Informative)

      by Mordaximus ( 566304 )
      Dell is a smart company that runs a lean & mean R&D machine.

      Unless you consider that many other companies are getting right out of plasma production. At any rate neither of their displays are HDTV devices. They lack the resolution to even display 720p at 16:9. Suprised no one sues for false advertising.

  • 24" 1920x1200/12msec LCD is pretty interesting too (Score:5, Informative)

    by xmas2003 ( 739875 ) * on Wednesday February 23, 2005 @03:12PM (#11758704) Homepage
    While the W4200HD is pretty cool but a bit pricy (nutshell summary of the article), a perhaps more interesting display coming from Dell is the 24" LCD offering 1920x1200 resolution and 12-16 msec response time - also reviewed by Extreme Tech [extremetech.com] with a sticker price of $1,199 ... although I have not see it for sale yet on Dell's websitee. This is going to put a lot of pressure [komar.org] on the large LCD makers, and with the occasional 25% off deal from Dell, could drop below $1,000.

    My christmas lights [komar.org] and BBQ Grill [komar.org] would look HULK'ing [komar.org] on that monitor! ;-)

  • One page version (Score:3, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 23, 2005 @03:13PM (#11758716)
    http://www.extremetech.com/print_article2/0,2533,a =146388,00.asp Far easier to read, IMHO.

  • Please mod me down right now! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by 50000BTU_barbecue ( 588132 ) on Wednesday February 23, 2005 @03:16PM (#11758746) Journal
    "But what does a company built around making inexpensive PCs know about HDTVs?"

    Who cares? Do you honestly think manufacturers build their own parts? Evderybody is selling something to someone else. A SONY DVD player with Panasonic chips and a Matsushita mechanism with a taiwanese PCB designed with Japanese software... Sold in Europe to play American movies.

    Dell will probably re-brand someone else's design, or outsource the design. Remember the Casio products re-branded as Tandy in the 80s? Same idea.

  • Dell probably hasn't much to do with it (Score:3, Insightful)

    by kalpol ( 714519 ) on Wednesday February 23, 2005 @03:16PM (#11758747)
    Dell is really good at taking people's money and selling them someone else's product with their name on it (which is not a bad thing if the product is good-quality and well-supported). I doubt that they ever really own their inventory - they just transfer it from one place to another.
    • Last I paid attention to plasma, you pretty much HAD to have one of the 'industrial' Panasonics, although this was right about the time that Pioneer came out with their updated line of plasmas.

      Dell is NOT making this (any more than they "make" anything else), so who is? Sampo? I can only guess its one of the lower end companies, especially to meet Dell's price point.

  • Dell (Score:2, Interesting)

    by NerdConspiracy ( 858939 )
    what does a company built around making inexpensive PCs know about HDTVs

    Do they really need to know much about HDTV? It's probably like with PCs, buy cheap components in large volumes, assemble them together. Sell online at a discount. Works with pretty much anything.

  • Not everyone... (Score:2, Informative)

    by Avyakata ( 825132 )
    "But what does a company built around making inexpensive PCs know about HDTVs?"

    For a lot of people, it probably won't matter. Dell is a name that most people know, and a good amount trust, so it is expected that they can make fairly reliable/quality products. Some consumers need to go no further...

  • Plasma/LCD vs DLP (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Bruha ( 412869 ) on Wednesday February 23, 2005 @03:20PM (#11758790) Homepage Journal
    I'm sorry but there is no compelling reason for me to ever want a plasma tv. We've got plenty and they have all had burn in issues.

    I dont think image quality is better than a CRT

    And I dont need to mount it on the wall.

    I consider either a DLP big screen or projector as a more logical choice and the price helps also.

    • there is no compelling reason for me to ever want a plasma tv.

      Amen. While I love the large screen, the cost and lifetime issues make it a non-starter for me. Personally, I'm holding out hope for OLED TV's [cnet.com]. But it looks like we'll need to wait until 2007... hurry up already!

    • Sheesh! LCD doesn't have burn-in and makes an excellent PC monitor. I've getting a Sharp 45" AQUOS primary for use with my HTPC.

      Sure, it's pricey, but everything with better than 720p resolution is pricey, especially the coming 1080p DLP sets. Then again, if 1280 X 720 is good enough for you, then price becomes a compelling factor as you say.

  • Not HDTV (Score:5, Informative)

    by mamer-retrogamer ( 556651 ) on Wednesday February 23, 2005 @03:23PM (#11758815)
    At 1024X768 this "High Definition" television can not fully render neither of the two High-Def resolutions of 720p (1280x720) nor 1080i (1920x1080 interlaced).

    -Mike

  • Not a true HDTV (Score:5, Informative)

    by That's Unpossible! ( 722232 ) * on Wednesday February 23, 2005 @03:25PM (#11758837)
    I quote:

    "The W4200HD has a native pixel resolution of 1024x768, and as such, isn't a true HD device, since it doesn't have enough pixels to draws [sic] a 1280x720 (720p) HDTV image."

    Which means it also can't do 1080i (which requires 1920x1080, almost twice the horizontal resolution this TV is capable of).
    • I have seen alot of projectors and tvs adverising that its able to do HDTV. but with almost all of them, They have an acutal resolution lower than 720p.

      There is a difference between doing true HDTV and being able to accept an HDTV signal. To marketing though, it doesnt matter. HDTV is just a buzz word.
    • Reminds me of arguing with a co-worker; he claimed his Sony 4:3 CRT TV was "HD". I told him it may be capable of receiving an HD signal, but it's definitely not putting out a full HD picture.
      • As long as the (4:3) monitor is capable of at least 1280x768, it will display 720p hdtv, within a letterbox.

        • CRT displays don't work like that. Measuring the resolution of a CRT display -- fundamentally an analog device -- is a very tricky proposition involving lots of hand-waving. Two absolutely identical TVs are going to behave slightly differently because there's that much variation in the process of manufacturing a CRT.

          There are, as far as I know, no CRTs that can actually resolve 1,000 lines of resolution. Really expensive tubes from Sony (found in their BVM series, $30,000 and up) will hold 800 or 900. They
  • Having the less than glamerous title as a dell onsite service provider I will find myself in the business of going to a site and un-packing and repacking to facilitate the replacement of the plasma on failure. Wow, I can't wait!!!!
  • I recently went to look at the current crop of HDTV displays.

    I quickly realized that I want LCD instead of plasma because of the lifespan and power consumption efficiency.

    That being said, the other hold up is 1080p. I know nothing is using it but I want it and to my knowledge only SHARPs 50" LCD has it. It seems to me it makes sense that 1080p will be a lot sharper than 720p since it will be running in a native resolution to my understanding.

    Does anyone know of any sites or resources that thoroughly com
  • Slapping the brand on anything works for a while, but eventually the brand loses its "cachet". (Not that Dell has a whole lot to begin with.)

    Reminds me of a TV commercial for a brand of salsa sauce where the executives of a large conglomerate are seated around the boardroom table trying to decide what their next product should be (like it matters):

    "Should we make salsa or oven mits?"

    Dell is not HP and they're not IBM. When they started branding TVs, printers, PDAs, etc., they jumped the shark

  • disposable $4000 appliances (Score:3, Insightful)

    by SuperBanana ( 662181 ) on Wednesday February 23, 2005 @03:28PM (#11758873)
    I love how everything is disposable these days. Lithium Ion, for example...the wonder technology that lasts only a year or two. Hard drives that suddenly aren't designed for "continuous or heavy duty use". Capacitors in everything from stereos to motherboards that last a few years before leaking all their electrolyte out and maybe starting a fire.

    Plasma TVs are being pushed like crazy, but the things burn out, guaranteed. A friend of mine said a coworker dropped well over $4,000 on a top of the line plasma screen from Sony several years ago. One day, he pushed the power button, there was a fizz noise, and...that was that. He said sometimes they go dim, or parts stick on or off like a defective LCD, etc...sometimes it just doesn't turn on one day.

    Since when was that acceptable? We pay 4-8 times less for a dishwasher, refridgerator, washer, or drier...and they are considered "major appliances", and expected to last at least a decade!

    I know at least in Massachusetts there's an "implied merchantability"(implied warranty, to grossly simplify) on any product...and wouldn't you expect a TV, devices which traditionally last decades, to last more than 3-4 years?

    • Plasma TVs are being pushed like crazy, but the things burn out, guaranteed. A friend of mine said a coworker dropped well over $4,000 on a top of the line plasma screen from Sony several years ago. One day, he pushed the power button, there was a fizz noise, and...that was that. He said sometimes they go dim, or parts stick on or off like a defective LCD, etc...sometimes it just doesn't turn on one day.

      You pay the price for being an early adopter. New plasma screens have a 60,000 half life(Half brightn

    • The MBAs have sucessfully taught a generation that buggy, overpriced products that don't last even half a decade are perfectly normal. As long as it looks cool....
    • Now be fair. The bad capacitors that you're referring to were caused by some shoddy manufacturer cutting corners (and a fair bit of industrial espionage gone wrong too, I've heard). In general, that was considered a product *failure*. True, there were some motherboard makers who refused to provide replacements (whom I, for one, will never buy from again), but on the whole, leaking electrolytic capactitors (at least over any reasonable term) is considered to be component failure. Capacitors are not consi
    • > Since when was that acceptable?

      Oh, I don't know. Perhaps about the time rebooting or flat out reinstalling became the accepted means to fix a computer problem?
    • Lithium Ion, for example...the wonder technology that lasts only a year or two.

      Hey, feel free to stick with nickel cadmium technology instead... the wonder technology that may only last for hours or even minutes depening on the application, and once it's discharged once, you can't re-use it!

      Li-Ion ain't so bad after all, huh?

      Hard drives that suddenly aren't designed for "continuous or heavy duty use"

      Oh, those are still available if you're willing to pay for them. The MTBF for a server-class drive ha
      • Hey, feel free to stick with nickel cadmium technology instead... the wonder technology that may only last for hours or even minutes depening on the application, and once it's discharged once, you can't re-use it!

        You are thinking alkalines or maybe the older dry cells. Nickel Cadmium (NiCd) batteries are rechargeable. The same goes for Nickel Metal Hydride (NiMH). NiCd is the oldest of the small rechargeables, I think. Lead-Acid is older but I don't remember them in sizes smaller than motorcycle batte
    • "My friend's TV burned out, so all Plasma TV's are guaranteed to burn out!"

      Nice logic.

      There is a lot of FUD out there concerning the longevity of plasma displays. Check out this article [plasmatvbuyingguide.com] for a sensible analysis of the problem.

      (If you're too lazy to read the article, it basically says that you can reasonably expect to be watching your plasma tv 10 years from now)

  • What do they know? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Shkuey ( 609361 )
    But what does a company built around making inexpensive PCs know about HDTVs?

    Apparently not much, because at a native resolution of 1024x768, that panel is NOT HD.

  • Maybe just wait for SED display. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by zymano ( 581466 ) on Wednesday February 23, 2005 @03:40PM (#11759000)

    Flat panel SED [canon.com]

    Photos of SED [sagetechnology.com]
  • 1024x768, no. please use 16:9, and no (laptop makers), 15:9 is not good enough.
    • Actually, most lappys are 16:10 (it's a nit, I know). The WUXGA ones are 1920x1200, allowing full 1080p resolution. The WXGA are 1280x800, allowing full 720p.

      And you might as well get a 1280x720 vs 1366x768, so at least your ABC and FOX can be displated native. (I'd like to kill the numbskull who though interlaced was good idea for HD)

  • There is a bigger fish to be had... better n cheap (Score:3, Interesting)

    by zioncity ( 862007 ) on Wednesday February 23, 2005 @03:57PM (#11759166)
    A friend of mine recently got a Pioneer Plasma at Best Buy recently. The size is like 42 or 43 inches... After all rebates, 500 from Pioneer, 100 from Comcast and also with buying the 4 year warranty for like 400 clams.. and taxes... I believe the set was costing about 3500-3550. Now he also got a 300 dollar best buy gift check and 200 in bonus bucks... for 500 in extra spending cash.

    This set also comes with their PureDrive video processor which handles processing, filtering of all HD, SD and ED signals... for those rednecks out there... Standard TV or SD, ED or 480progressive signals and of course, HD or 720p. This processing unit on his tv.. a 43 inch now confirmed, fuckin rocked serious ass. Cartoon Network and Dexters Laboratory or Toonami never made Standard TV look so good and for us size queens,.. bigger is better... LOL.

    But seriously.. even with the PixelWorks chip... the Pioneer is not only superior quality in terms of longevity, but that PureVision Box rocks and is an excellent video processor for the buck. Another comparison is my 30 inch Syntax Olevia HDTV lcd has the same PixelWorks chip and contrary to popular belief... it is freaking awesome for the buck... especially after you fine tune each input via the setup on the remote, each input has it's own settings...

    So unless Dell can come up with a better trick,.. I say go Pioneer for Plasma... Syntax Olevia or other for a better deal and and better quality LCDs. By the way... I got mine for $999 at MicroCenter in Boston and with my Denon 1910, with DVI and 720p upscaling... Finding Nemo, Sky Captain and LOTR 3, Return of the King with very good night fight scenes on the Syntax... gave me a good ole woo... er uh... you know what I mean.

    Nuff said.

    Zion
  • Anybody else see this and think of a Western Digital 4.2GB hard drive? :)

  • why would you blow your money on one of these? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by utexaspunk ( 527541 ) on Wednesday February 23, 2005 @04:04PM (#11759232)
    when you can get the 30" apple cinema display [apple.com] for less? Sure, it's 12" less in the diagonal dimension, but is TV really any better that much bigger? And at 2560x1600 (as opposed to the Dell's measly 1024x768) it can actually display HDTV, and will be much more usable for computing. ...not to mention that it looks way cooler...

  • Advertorial Alert (Score:5, Interesting)

    by SethJohnson ( 112166 ) on Wednesday February 23, 2005 @04:06PM (#11759259) Homepage Journal


    This fellow, ThinSkin, is a schill for ExtremeTech.com. Check his user info [slashdot.org]. In February, ThinSkin has submitted four articles that were accepted for Slashdot publication and all of them were links to ExtremeTech.com content.

    Clearly this is paid placement to increase traffic to ExtremeTech.
    • Around here, this is hardly surprising anymore. Seems to be occuring more often, too.

    • Re:Advertorial Alert (Score:4, Insightful)

      by null etc. ( 524767 ) on Wednesday February 23, 2005 @05:40PM (#11760303)
      This fellow, ThinSkin, is a schill for ExtremeTech.com. Check his user info. In February, ThinSkin has submitted four articles that were accepted for Slashdot publication and all of them were links to ExtremeTech.com content.

      Or, these are the only two websites he ever reads.

      Still, I have to admire his ability to get submissions accepted. In my six years here, I've never done so, even though my submissions usually cover topics of substance.

      Hmmm, I'm clearly going about this all wrong!

      I'll set up a script that automatically checks for new articles on ExtremeTech, and then submits them to /.!

  • I'm waiting for two things before I buy an HDTV.
    1. A large display that can handle 1080p x 1920 and doesn't set me back 5 grand or more. TI's xHD-3 DLP looks to be a possibility on that front come the end of this quarter.
    2. Something to watch. Where I live, there's exactly one HDTV broadcaster and they're broadcasting hog futures. That means satellite but given James Lilek's [lileks.com] experience with Direct TV, that doesn't look like a viable option right now.

    So for me, looks like it'll be at least another year before a

  • Oh, gimme a break... "The W4200HD has a native pixel resolution of 1024x768, and as such, isn't a true HD device, since it doesn't have enough pixels to draws a 1280x720 (720p) HDTV image."

    Look, I know lots of people will buy these things and be ecstatically happy with them, but can't we have just a little bit of truth-in-advertising? If it's not HDTV, don't call it HDTV.
  • This is kind of heavy for in-flight DVDs.
    And it probably uses up batteries quickly too.

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