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Hardware

PCs For A Workshop Environment? 383

Posted by timothy from the giant-dust-hood dept.
bryanporter writes "I'm a geek-turned-homeowner, and am in the processing of setting up my workshop for doing odds and ends around the house. I want to install a cheap, decent PC out there for looking up building plans, shopping for tools while I'm on a job, etc. The shop is going to be in a wooden outbuilding with a shingled roof but the building won't be heated or cooled (although I don't plan on using it much in the summer)." Read on for a bit more on what he's looking for -- what would you suggest for computing in a hostile environment on a non-industrial budget?
"I plan on doing things like sawing wood for shelves in here so dust will also be prevalent. Can any of you Slashdotters recommend components for building a machine resilient to cold weather and lots of dust? I was a PC upgrade/repair technician in a former life, so building my own machines is not daunting in the slightest (I've built all my own home machines). The ruggedized machines I've found online are all too pricey, and all seem more designed for avoiding shock damage than environmental dust and cold."
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PCs For A Workshop Environment? More

PCs For A Workshop Environment?

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  • Hiding them? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by fembots ( 753724 ) on Sunday January 09, 2005 @08:27PM (#11306867) Homepage
    How about building a small dust-proof closet for the computer and video-out display wirelessly? And add a glass-shielded desk (you see those in some retail shops/banks) where your LCD will be lying on its back facing up, covered by a layer of glass. Wireless keyboard and mouse can be regularly cleaned/dusted off or even replaced.

    Failing that, maybe build some sort of a curtainized shed, so you work on the computer inside, like those scientists in the contaminated zone :)

    While most people put the roof back on their convertibles when it's raining, some take out the umbrellas.

    • Cheap ass work PC (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Neuroelectronic ( 643221 ) on Sunday January 09, 2005 @08:46PM (#11306958)
      That sounds a little over budget to me.

      I was thinking getting a cheap p2-p3 system, whatever you can find lying around. Sometimes you can find them in the trash. just stick some of these babies on them (fan filters: http://www.directron.com/fangrill80bb.html) where ever there is holes in the case.

      Get a cheap ass optical mouse. Try to find one that has an completely enclosed optical device. If it doesn't no big deal, you can find them for $3-4 at pricewatch.com.

      Get a keyboard leaflet, this is a must. http://www.kador.com/leaflet1.htm
      you can get one here for free, if you don't mind being "creative"

      Finally a can of compressed air from your local office supply and your set.
      • Get a cheap PC, dump that to a 55 gallon drum, punch a few holes for the cables to come out, pour lubricant oil to the cover the PC and cross your finger...

        It means to be a joke initially, but, other than the possiblity of eatting away the plastics, I suddenly think it may work.
          1. Get a cheap PC, dump that to a 55 gallon drum, punch a few holes for the cables to come out, pour lubricant oil to the cover the PC and cross your finger...

          In all seriousness, mineral oil is non-conductive and shouldn't eat away plastic. If the holes are sealed, the PC does not require alot of cooling, and there aren't any metal filings, it would work. Not the best solution, though IMNSHO.

          I like the 'old PC for cheap' idea better; when it breaks, get a new one. The only modern suggestion I'd make i

      • Death from Smoke and Dust (Score:4, Interesting)

        by Alien54 ( 180860 ) on Sunday January 09, 2005 @11:33PM (#11307741) Journal
        Related war stories as seen at the Computer Stupidities Hardware Abuse Page [rinkworks.com].

        A friend of mine asked me to take a look at her computer. She said the computer was unusually "quiet" and would reboot itself on occasion. I surmised correctly that the fan on her power supply was faulty. She was a chain smoker and apparently smoked a lot while working on the computer; not only was the power supply fan gummed up with revolting tar and nicotine, but the CPU's cooling fan was clogged beyond use, and the cdrom drive drawer would not open. This is the only computer I have ever worked on that died from smoking.

        In reply to the above anecdote of stupidity, a reader sent in the following:

        I've seen a computer die from smoking, too.

        A customer came in with a dead computer, claimed it was under warranty, and asked if we could fix it. We had look at it, and before we even laid eyes on it, we could smell it. Imagine the stench of an overused ashtray times ten.

        We looked at the yellow case (it was supposed to be beige) and the date of purchase (3-4 months previous) and goggled in disbelief that she actually had any lungs left.

        "What are you doing with this computer?" I asked in total disbelief. It was at a taxi service. She smoked, the cabbies smoked, and the room was apparently only about eight by twelve. Smoking took place 24/7 in this place, and her fingers and the computer bore witness. We opened the case, and there were visible deposits of brown tar everywhere. The whole thing was gummy and slimy inside.

        We had to tell her she was on her own. Naturally, she countered with the "it's under warranty" argument, but the computer was well beyond that. She left quite mad. We insisted she take her computer with her when she left.

        All of which goes to speak on the need for keeping technology properly ventilated.

        • And another:

          A couple of years ago I was working at a local regional railroad and was given the job of upgrading all the 486s to newer machines. One of my last upgrades required me to upgrade a machine the was infrequently used at the car shop. Now the car shop is where they repair all rail cars that are not locomotives. This naturally results in a lot of airborne particles (soot, metal shavings, dust, etc) and the contaminants not only covered the work area but also creeped into the office. They combatte

    • Re:Hiding them? (Score:2, Interesting)

      by fermion ( 181285 )
      That's seems like a good idea. Build a second area for the computer. I have seen this done it auto repair shops where they want a computer out in the garage, but want it protected. This is also done in warehouses. A second roof to protect it from water and a seperate air filter could not hurt either.

      What I might do is find an old portable with a dock connector. Put an old CRT in a plastic enclosure, connect it to the dock, in a seperate accesible enclosure, and connect the dock to an exposed keyboard

    • Do you mean something like putting the PC in one of these:
      http://www-chimie.u-strasbg.fr/~lcoc/Gloves%20box. gif [u-strasbg.fr]?

  • Any old PC (Score:5, Interesting)

    by nickgrieve ( 87668 ) on Sunday January 09, 2005 @08:28PM (#11306870) Journal
    Just buy a cheap PC... You would be surprised at the hostile enviroments a PC will live in...

    • Re:Any old PC (Score:2, Interesting)

      by roseblood ( 631824 )
      Take Nickgrieve's cheap PC, make sure it runs cool enough that if wont overheat if left in an enclosure not much larger than the CPU/LCD combo. Take said computer and LCD combo, use your leet woodworking skillz and make a box that's sealed on all sides but the bottom. On vent holes in bottom pass through your cables. Put a foam to fill the holes and block dust (and allow some minimal airflow.) Mount LCD in said enclosure with plexiglass window. Your CPU/LCD are now safe. Keyboard and mouse.... get one of th

    • Re:Any old PC (Score:3, Informative)

      by fishdan ( 569872 ) *
      I must agree -- I have a computer in my work room where I do alot of carpentry -- plenty of sawdust. Aside from putting a fine mesh screen cage around the back, I've done nothing else. 2 years of homerepair, a set of stairs, some hardwood floors and a cat gym later, still runs like a champ, but I really should upgrade from RedHat 7.3 It's an old HP Kayak, all SCSI, PII450, 256m ram. Surfs great.

    • Any old LAPTOP (Score:3, Interesting)

      by cooley ( 261024 )
      I'd get a cheap laptop and a wi-fi card. That way you can take the laptop out there and work while you need, and keep it in the house the rest of the time. Alternatively, you could buy one of those cheap barebones "mini" PCs with a handle and simply carry it from house to shed as necessary.

    • true that! (Score:3, Informative)

      by pickled doughboy ( 700747 )
      i used to work IT in a very filthy factory that has ~50 HP Pavillion PC on the shop floor. They held up very well, I believe, for one major reason, they rn P75's with passive cooling. Just before i left they were starting to upgrade to PII 400 machines with fans on the heatsinks. Some of the P75's had been in service for multiple years with out a hardware failure. There were a couple of PII's that failed due to overheating within 6 months, all of which had fans so cloged that they could turn anymore...

    • Re:Any old PC (Score:3, Informative)

      by glk572 ( 599902 )
      This is a very good option, just blow the computer out every once in a wile. You'll find that CD-ROM drives will fail first. Moving parts are the only place you'll have issues, the hard disk is well sealed for dust, fans are the only real problem, just don't let the dust build up too much, blow it out when you can see dust building up.

      The keyboard overlay is essential though, unless you like to toss kb's every once in a wile.

  • Tip #1 (Score:5, Informative)

    by zx-6e ( 604380 ) <zx-6eNO@SPAMdragonnetworks.com> on Sunday January 09, 2005 @08:29PM (#11306873)
    Most important feature of the PC - filters for the intake fans. Keeping the dust and grime out will go along way making a PC in the shop or garage last a long time...

    • Tip #2: PC Off the Floor (Score:4, Informative)

      by handy_vandal ( 606174 ) on Sunday January 09, 2005 @08:34PM (#11306898) Homepage Journal
      Most important feature of the PC - filters for the intake fans ...

      Right. And keep your PC off the floor, that's where the dust is. Keep the PC on a desk, in a cupboard, etc. Better yet, keep the PC in a separate closet.

      -kgj

      • Re:Tip #2: PC Off the Floor (Score:4, Informative)

        by c ( 8461 ) <beauregardcp@gmail.com> on Sunday January 09, 2005 @09:28PM (#11307177)
        ...keep your PC off the floor, that's where the dust is.


        Uh, no.


        In the typical woodworking shop the kind of sawdust that will kill electronics is produced at high velocity approximately 36 inches off the ground. Chips go down, dust goes up. There's absolutely no place that isn't going to be covered with dust unless you've got an obscenely good dust control setup. Quite frankly, if you've got the cash to build a dust free shop you might as well splurge on a milspec laptop.


        If you don't have that kind of cash... no fans, no openings, no expensive moving parts, and nothing that you care about getting scratched up (like screens).


        c.

        • In the typical woodworking shop the kind of sawdust that will kill electronics is produced at high velocity approximately 36 inches off the ground.

          You're quite right. I hadn't thought through the shop/sawdust aspect -- I was thinking of office environments.

          -kgj

          • Re:Tip #2: PC Off the Floor (Score:3, Interesting)

            by c ( 8461 )
            I was thinking of office environments.

            Heh. When I think of office environments, I think of jet fuel soot turning computer equipment black within a couple years of purchase.

            Then Dell started selling black systems...

            Actually, sawdust isn't the only thing you have to worry about in a workshop. Nasty solvents and other chemicals abound. My fingers, for example, are currently covered by a combination of polyurethane glue, exterior paint primer, sawdust, and blood. None of which are good for electronics.

    • forget about CD-ROM or floppies. Just use flash drives

    • Re:Tip #1 (Score:2, Insightful)

      by ArticleI ( 842868 )
      Build a fan box using an auto air filter and a high performance fan and connect it to the pc case with a length of laundry drier hose. It should ideally be positioned high where there will be less dust. Positive case pressure goes a long way. And just use a really cheap keyboard and optical mouse so you don't have to care about them dying.

    • Re:Tip #1 (Score:3, Informative)

      by DataPath ( 1111 )
      Or fanless.

      Building a little VIA Eden mini-itx box, fanless, will certainly help in keeping the system protected from the harsh environment.

    • Re:Tip #1 (Score:2, Informative)

      by MarkRose ( 820682 )
      You have to be careful if you put filters in a PC, for a few reasons. The filter makes it much harder for the fan to move air (it's pulling it through the filter). Second, having the filter creates a huge amount of backpressure on the fan -- and cheap computer fans are not designed with this in mind. Third, the filter will reduce air flow, possibly resulting in insufficient cooling. Forth, you'll almost certainly forget to change the filters. Saw dust clogs filters very fast, so you'll need to clean them ve

  • Mutually exclusive? (Score:4, Funny)

    by SunPin ( 596554 ) <slashspam@NOSPAm.cyberista.com> on Sunday January 09, 2005 @08:29PM (#11306878) Homepage
    Once a geek, always a geek.

  • Quasi-dupe (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 09, 2005 @08:30PM (#11306881)
    Check out Outdoor Computer Cases [slashdot.org]

    • Re:Quasi-dupe (Score:3, Interesting)

      by double-oh three ( 688874 )
      Dude, that was from 6 years ago. Any info in it is probably outdated and anyway, I think something new would probably have been invented. Besides, how many people would remember that exact thread and be annoyed at a new one?

  • Plexiglass (Score:5, Informative)

    by tuxter ( 809927 ) on Sunday January 09, 2005 @08:30PM (#11306882) Journal
    We used to make plexiglass cases for use in the mining industry. Basically just a bit bigger than the system unit, Grommeted cable holes, and shrouded, filtered fans in the plexiglass case giving positive pressure to combat dust ingress.

    • Re:Plexiglass (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Cryforhelp ( 680231 )
      There's no real need to use plexiglass. Wood does the trick just as neatly. The positive pressure however is a nice touch, in combination with good air filtering this will keep most of the dust out. As for keyboards etc.; be prepared to replace them. several 8 keyboards last a lot longer than an industrial strengthened 80 keyboard.

  • a keyboard cover (Score:3, Interesting)

    by jessecurry ( 820286 ) <jesse@jessecurry.net> on Sunday January 09, 2005 @08:31PM (#11306885) Homepage Journal
    definitely...buy one that allows you full use while protecting against spills and dust.

  • Avoid moving parts... (Score:4, Informative)

    by ref_karl ( 685655 ) on Sunday January 09, 2005 @08:33PM (#11306893)
    Previous posts made the point of sealing up the computer and monitor... all fine and good. Be sure to get a keyboard that's sealed, and an optical mouse, or a touchpad. There are "roll-up" keyboards that have no exposed moving parts. Also, if you can enclose the computer & monitor in a housing that has a "positive pressure", you'll avoid a lot of the trouble dust. Try to find a way to blow clean air into the enclosure so that no dust can get sucked into the cabinet.
    • I agree. Keeping the PC in a little airtight cabinate would help too, as long as it doesn't get too hot (keep the PC slow and you should be fine). As for the keyboard, any standard keyboard should do if you put one of those plastic covers on it that covers EVERYTHING and is designed to protect keyboards from coffee and such. I would think that would keep the keyboard clean enough.

      Depending on what you want to do (this is a bit extreme), you could use watercooling to keep any PC cool in that environment. Ju

    • Run a cable underground to a server and do a network boot from a sealed fanless box.

      Has anyone figured out wireless booting?

      Your display might be tricky. You probably want a CRT to keep the cost down. All I've seen cool themselves by convection, which might just mean using cheap monitors and some kind of easily removed grille or ramped flap designed to let warm air out, but to keep inordinate amounts of dust from settling inside.

  • I am outside right now (Score:5, Funny)

    by LennyDotCom ( 26658 ) <Lenny@lenny.com> on Sunday January 09, 2005 @08:33PM (#11306894) Homepage Journal
    I'm in connecticut on my back deck it's cover but has no sides it's 34 degrees Im using a Power Mac G4 400 Mhz and a dell 15 inch crt I have woke up in the3 morning with snow on my key board I never shut it off just let it sleep It's running like a charm get a mac
  • The easiest option is to figure out what kind of cables and/or wireless equipment would allow you to keep the PC back in the snug, safe comfort of your house and only have the bare minimum out in the shed.

    Initially it seeems like a pain but it's nearly always the easiest and cheapest solution.

  • Terminals (Score:5, Insightful)

    by nurb432 ( 527695 ) on Sunday January 09, 2005 @08:35PM (#11306905) Homepage Journal
    Run a Cat5 and get yourself a Win or X or VNC terminal. Fanless, really rugged. Not too expensive to get a older model ( or used off ebay ).

    Keep the 'real' hardware back in the house where it can be protected...

    You can also get sealed keyboards for pretty cheap these days.

    LCD screens deal better with bad environments then CRT as they run cooler, but they aren't what you would consider cheap.
    • Exactly what I was about to suggest - a WinTerm or XTerm hooked up to a box safely stored indoors. Also, since NCD appears to have just pulled out of the hardware business according to The Register [theregister.co.uk] you might be able to pick one up (or even a few) for next to nothing.
    • Good point -

      Lets say you got a really kick ass home PC running XP Pro -

      Step 1 - Turn on remote desktop (RDP) on the good PC
      Step 2 - Run a Cat 5 out to the shed - or use WIFI
      Step 3 - Download and burn a PXES CD http://pxes.sourceforge.net
      Step 4 - Go to a local PC Recycler and pick up some $10 POS PC with a CD-ROM in it

      Use the piece of crap PC in your shed using PXES to connect/remote control the good PC in the house - then who cares about dust filters - special keyboards etc ....

  • use dust filters (Score:3, Interesting)

    by eggman9713 ( 714915 ) on Sunday January 09, 2005 @08:37PM (#11306917)
    I have a friend who once did something like this with an old pentium 2 350mhz computer. To keep moisture out, he duct taped all seams on the case and cut makeshift air filters out of simple polyester batting to fit on the fans to keep the dust out and made a small wooden cabinet for the monitor and also used a form fitting plastic keyboard cover to keep it clean. For the mouse, I forgot what he did. I think he might have used a cheap optical mouse.
    • You'd be amazed how good a filter some pantyhose stretched over an opening can be. Dirt cheap too (especially if you are married, just get a "used" pair your wife was going to toss due to a run or some such).

    • Re:use dust filters (Score:5, Informative)

      by ScrewMaster ( 602015 ) on Sunday January 09, 2005 @09:22PM (#11307143)
      Actually, the typical computer enclosure is a negative pressure environment with the fans creating a relative vacuum inside the case. Putting nylons (or any other kind of filter) on the fan does nothing except collect whatever dirt and debris made it past the motherboard and other components in the system. Industrial enclosures are usually positive pressure designs, with the fans blowing inward (so that filtering the fan keeps contaminants out) and furthermore because the case is under pressure it keeps dust from coming in any small holes. If you're going to filter a regular computer case, you will need to seal the case completely except for an intake vent, which would have the filter.

  • Ditto plus keyboard cover (Score:4, Insightful)

    by TFGeditor ( 737839 ) on Sunday January 09, 2005 @08:37PM (#11306920) Homepage
    Having done what you describe in a light industrial environment, the only thing I would add is a work-through dust cover for the keyboard (the same kind you see in use at industrial will-call counters etc.) You can use the keyboard with cover in place, thus protecting it from dust, chemicals, grease, and other nasties on your hands while working. The covers are durable, and clean easily.

  • Thin client (Score:4, Interesting)

    by sploo22 ( 748838 ) <`dwahler' `at' `gmail.com'> on Sunday January 09, 2005 @08:37PM (#11306923)
    If I were you, I'd go for something with as few moving parts as possible, to reduce the number of points of failure. You could maybe set up a Linux-based thin client or diskless workstation, since it doesn't sound like you'll be using anything more demanding than a web browser.

    Another big issue to consider is the monitor. Apparently many CRTs don't like being taken below freezing, and LCDs are even less tolerant.
  • cheap second hand laptop will be perfect.. even better if you can do a cold air induction pipe to the outside world (with small filter)

  • enclosure enclosure (Score:3, Interesting)

    by ScentCone ( 795499 ) on Sunday January 09, 2005 @08:39PM (#11306928)
    Yup, make your first project an enclosure-enclosure for the machine with good filters for the ventilation. You can buy large pieces of good filter material by shopping for replacement filters for home air cleaners. Even a good furnace filter will do. Beyond that, most PC hardware will work well in cold conditions pretty well... but a CRT display will probably treat you better in cold weather than a reasonably priced LCD, and is cheap.

    Don't forget about moisture condensing within the enclosure. You can buy some pipe heating tape in the hardware store, and use it in really cold weather just to keep the PC's enclosure warmer than its surroundings by a few degrees - that will help. Also: new power supply, mobo and whatnot all will last a long time even if you do virtually nothing, and will be cheaper to replace than a few good rip blades for your table saw and some nice oak planks.

  • How about a laptop? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by JeffTL ( 667728 ) on Sunday January 09, 2005 @08:40PM (#11306932)
    You could carry a laptop to your outbuilding as needed -- bring it in when it's cold -- and something like an Apple iBook (with its cover closed) is relatively durable impact-wise; I've seen them survive after being dropped.
    • You could carry a laptop to your outbuilding as needed

      Good idea. That's how a cone truck I worked on [lsu.edu] solved the problem. They used an old thinkpad and it was tough. It was fanless too, so you did not have to worry as much about dust. The purpose of the cone truck was to shove a rod (cone) into the ground to determine soil types. It was a hot and dirty environment, but the Thinkpad collected data for years. Eventually, the keys got sticky.

      You can pick up 486 and pentium laptops for next to nothing on

  • You mention that it will be outside, not heated or cooled - but then omit to mention if you're talking the heat and humidity of Florida, or the bitter cold of Fairbanks.

    I had a system in a similarly non-controlled climate, and it was fine just until the temperatures started to hit freezing. That was enough for the moist Vancouver air to condense, and frzzzt....

    The mentions of thinclients sound like the best plan so far. Not only is it easier to seal up, with less heat generation there and less moving p

  • Hmmm... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 09, 2005 @08:44PM (#11306949)
    a wooden outbuilding with a shingled roof but the building won't be heated or cooled
    Are you sure you don't work for EA?

  • Network boot X terminal (Score:3, Interesting)

    by erice ( 13380 ) on Sunday January 09, 2005 @08:45PM (#11306955) Homepage
    How cold do you expect it to get? If it is below freezing, the hard disk could be a problem. (Frozen or too thick lubricant can prevent the disk from spinning up) You may want to use the shop machine as a diskless X-terminal. You can either network boot a PC or see if you scavange a real X-terminal cheap.

  • "The shop is going to be in...." (Score:4, Funny)

    by Tavor ( 845700 ) on Sunday January 09, 2005 @08:46PM (#11306959)
    "...a wooden outbuilding with a shingled roof but the building won't be heated or cooled..."
    It will be if you use an overclocked Duron or Prescott...

  • Simple enclosure (Score:3, Informative)

    by Smidge204 ( 605297 ) on Sunday January 09, 2005 @08:47PM (#11306971) Journal
    Build or find an enclosure. Doesn't have to be fancy, just big enough and reasonably well sealed.

    Not only will you have to worry about dust, but possibly insects and rodents. If it's feasible, set it up so it draws in air directly from outside and into the enclosure (optionally exhaust the air to the outside as well). Failing that, get a decent filter and a stronger fan to pull the air through it. A large automotive air filter will probably be sufficient and those are fairly cheap. Suck air through the filter, don't blow into it.

    Keep the enclosure under positive pressure (Blow air in) to keep dust from sneaking in any cracks or seams. Very little wiring would be needed for a remote power switch so you can turn it on without opening the cabinet, and a small access door with a decent seal to access drives/ports. (Don't have any ports exposed if you don't want them clogged with dust!)

    I honestly don't see cold weather being a problem. Moisture might be, though... you don't want condensation inside the case! Using a chemical desiccant of some sort will help keep the moisture out of the way and hopefully eliminate the need for a heater or leaving it on all the time to prevent condensation.

    First link on Google [shop.com] that seems to actually sell the stuff retail. Reusable packs are best so you don't have to keep disposing of the stuff.
    =Smidge=

  • Wireless (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Chief Typist ( 110285 ) on Sunday January 09, 2005 @08:50PM (#11306984) Homepage
    Easy answer -- get a laptop with wireless networking. When you leave your workshop, you take the computer with you.

    No wires or other hassles for setup, either.

    -ch

  • Lots Of Suggestions For Air Filters ... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 09, 2005 @08:50PM (#11306988)
    ... why not go completely fanless and seal the thing up completely? Many people - especially those building HTPCs - go with entirely passive cooling so they don't have noisy fans. There are some nice (but fairly expensive) all-aluminum HTPC cases where the case itself acts as a heat sink for components. You don't need a P4 or some other massively powerful CPU; you don't need a 15K RPM hard drive; you don't need a high power 3D graphics card.

    Or just get a used Toughbook off eBay.

  • any old PC (Score:3, Informative)

    by classicvw ( 743849 ) on Sunday January 09, 2005 @08:54PM (#11307006)
    We have off the shelf PC's at work, running in an industrial environment. They run 24/7 and have been running since 2000. I blow the dust out of them about every 3 months and reboot the computer. Once in a while I replace a cooling fan. The cooling fan will let you know by the noise.

  • Good move (Score:2, Offtopic)

    by canuck57 ( 662392 )
    Wish I did that 20 years ago, Wood working sure beats kissing some MBA asshome.

  • Step by step (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Maskirovka ( 255712 ) on Sunday January 09, 2005 @09:10PM (#11307086)

    1)Get a clear plastic container to hold the cpu and monitor (or two seperate cases if you use a CRT).

    2)Cut a hole in said plastic case and epoxy/hotglue/ductape a resperator filter or part of a vacume cleaner bag over it.

    3) Go about building the CPU as you would go about building a home theater PC or similar in terms of heat output and fans and such.

    4) Put your USB, ethernet, and power connections through other some smaller holes, and seal those with electrical tape or epoxy or something.

    5) depending on where you live you might also want to put some kind of moisture obsorbing material in the case like paper towels or drierite desiccants. [drierite.com]

    6) If you're a cheap masochist, you might get a ball mouse. Otherwise, just get a regular optical mouse and carefully tape flexible plastic around the edges of the buttons (with enough slack for the buttons to function).

    I've heard good things about the durability of rollup keyboards. [thinkgeek.com]

    7) Upgrade the sound system in your house so that you can hear it clearly out in your shed. Make sure that you can control it via ssh.

    good luck!

  • I have worked at a steel mill (Score:4, Informative)

    by antifoidulus ( 807088 ) on Sunday January 09, 2005 @09:11PM (#11307092) Homepage Journal
    where they deployed PCs everywhere. They also had tons of grease and all other sorts of contaminants being flung about. They just used generic Compaq computers with cheapy 15" flatscreens. We just stored them in a cheaply made wooden shelf with a plastic shield to protect the monitor and a keyboard shelf. I imagine since you are good with tools, you could construct one of these yourself.
    They tried using special keyboard mouse combo devices(basically just a trackball and a few buttons added on to the right side of the keyboard), but these ended up breaking quite frequently and seem to be harder to find. I would recommend just using cheap keyboards and mice, and keep plenty around. They are probably the most likely thing to break.

  • One Cold Weather Problem (Score:4, Interesting)

    by dutky ( 20510 ) on Sunday January 09, 2005 @09:11PM (#11307094) Homepage Journal
    While all the folks saying the computers perfer the cold are correct, there is one thing you will need to consider: LCD monitors don't like to be frozen.

    Most LCD panels have an operating temperature range of 0 to 50 degrees C (32 to 140 degrees F). The upper end of the range is unlikely to be a problem, but if your workshop is likely to get below freezing in the winter an LCD monitor will likely get damaged: use a conventional CRT based monitor instead.

  • Many Things (Score:5, Interesting)

    by bluGill ( 862 ) on Sunday January 09, 2005 @09:18PM (#11307126)

    First of all: Do not run cat-5 between buildings. Unless you have the ability to figure out and prevent ground loops, you are asking for trouble. Use either fiber or wireless. (or 10base5, if you can find it anymore, but shipping from eBay is likely to be more than other solutions)

    Next, put the computer off your clean room. Cutting wood implies that you will be putting a finish on it latter, and finish should always be applied in a separate room that is well filtered and ventilated. (and heated!) Now you don't want your computer in the fumes from some finishes (you never know what will eat plastic), but you otherwise want exactly the same environment for both.

    If you want to use the computer in the main shop, start with a wide format printer so you can print your instructions off. (this can be in the house) Then consider a projector, through a window from the clean room to a wall elsewhere. Requires some forethought of how to place things so it will work, but otherwise useful. If not that, run an LCD through a wall. Use the cheapest keyboard you can find in the shop so you don't care when it goes.

    Last, search rec.woodworking. (google groups used to be good for this) This subject has been brought up many times.

    • Re:Many Things (Score:4, Informative)

      by nathanh ( 1214 ) on Monday January 10, 2005 @01:46AM (#11308236) Homepage
      First of all: Do not run cat-5 between buildings. Unless you have the ability to figure out and prevent ground loops, you are asking for trouble.

      What the hell are you talking about? You can't get a ground loop with Ethernet over cat-5. There's no ground wire! The pairs are differential and isolated.

      If Ethernet over cat-5 caused ground loops then 1000s of office buildings throughout the world would be having problems. Any sizable office will have multiple independent power circuits.

  • I am currently posting this on my shop PC(As well as about 1/3 of my Slashdot posts).

    It's a Celeron 300 running stripped down Windows XP [blackviper.com]. I have a decent ATI 7500 AIW so I also have TV out here. I've upgraded the RAM to 512MB. I did lose a hard drive a couple of years ago(no problem as I back up my data to my server in my home office), but other than that the thing has been on for 5 years straight. I leave the case open(like most of my PC's, should probably close them but I'm constantly moving parts e

  • SFF all the way (Score:5, Insightful)

    by visionsofmcskill ( 556169 ) <vision&getmp,com> on Sunday January 09, 2005 @09:23PM (#11307151) Homepage Journal
    If you dont need to do major upgrades that require internal space in your PC, a Small Form Factor PC is hands down the best solution.

    Mainly due to their low price (can be had for about 400$), and their much smoother exteriors (less cracks for dust to find its way into).

    Grab yourself a shuttle or jetway, if you dont need a cd-rom/floppy you can leave the sealing front plates on them, having only the rear fan's outake as an open oriface, and pushing your price down to nearly 300$ (www.zipzoomfly.com).

    after that your pretty much home free, every few months you can slide the cover back (three thumb-screws or less) and give the interior a quick air-dusting...

    Since the size is small, it can be safely tucked away somewhere more secure than a full fledged tower might go, and can be kept all the more less exposed to dust and other harmfull airborne materials.

    Heat is rarely a problem with all but the oldest and newest models, so as long as you keep the arc weilder away from the power cables you should be fine!!

    Invest in a wireless keyboard/mouse, and youve reduced your clutter/liabilities that much more.

  • Don't worry about it (Score:4, Interesting)

    by jobugeek ( 466084 ) on Sunday January 09, 2005 @09:25PM (#11307159) Homepage
    Some of you really under estimate what will kill a PC. A company I used to work for bought another company and sent me to do a once over of their systems.

    They had a covered dock area for loading and all the offices were ventilated from the warehouse. Diesel fumes from the trucks trickled in and made all the vents pitch black. And inside the PC, they were completely black. They had been running the same PCs for 5 years with no more problems than anyone else has.

    Bottom line, unless there are liquids around, you will probably be fine with just cleaning it out every once in a while.

    • I agree, At the shop I work in, a customer brought in an old one from his machine shop last week. This thing was so old it needed an AT power supply. It had inches of oily black dust in it. That is probably what killed the PS. New PS and a lot of compressed air and it ran fine, in the shop and online in 4 hours, my boss took an hour and a half to go get the new PS as we were out.
    • I wonder how many of those employees came down with non-specific nerve damage from the diesel fumes in their offices...
  • The Microtel PC's available via the Wal-Mart website come without the Microsoft tax, for under $300.

    I've bought three. All three have had the power supply fail in the first year. One had the CPU fan fail at 13 months, fried the mobo.

    I've learned a lot owning Microtels. I've also learned that wouldn't want to subject one to a shop environment.

  • Hostile Enviroments (Score:3, Interesting)

    by returnoftheyeti ( 678724 ) on Sunday January 09, 2005 @09:28PM (#11307176)
    I work for a support company. We do networks and hardware repair for all sorts of companies. Anything from $200 an hour lawyers to to heavy industrial.
    My point is at the industrial places I have seen a lot of computers. I've had to fix PC's with 3 inches of metal shavings inside the case. Layers of black nasty dust. Computers you don't even want to touch because they are so nasty. Puddles of oil on them.
    The majoriy of them still run, still work fine. Espically considering that some of them are Pentium based PC running 95 and they are still working in this enviroment.
    Get a used PC, or put togather one from your parts bench. Put it in your shop. Forget about it, it will run forever. Just try to keep it away from the sander.
  • OK so you want to do it cheap, and you seem quite handy. So here is an idea. buy a case with minimal air intakes (one to two if your can), and pipe that intake outside, with large diameter PVC plumbing. The fans blowing out of the case you put good filters on, and let them blow into the shed. That takes care of the guts. Wireless keyboards and mice? The truth is most external connections are pretty resiliant, but a little duct or insulation tape around the connected plugs can go along way to protect it even

  • Shop PC - don't worry (Score:2, Insightful)

    by NoseBag ( 243097 )
    While there's lots of really, really good ideas here, I could add one more comment.

    If your shop PC craps out in 2-3 years (due to the hostile environment, or whatever), what are you going to do? Probably the same thing you'd do if it didn't crap out -- upgrade. Most folks I know usually upgrade their #1 system (the one in your house) every 2-3 years anyway, so just move the hand-me-downs into the (shop) #2 system, clean the li'l puppy up while you're at it, and your good to go for another 2-3 years.

    Unless

  • Build a computer almost nil of moving parts. (Score:4, Informative)

    by Linuxathome ( 242573 ) on Sunday January 09, 2005 @09:55PM (#11307299) Homepage Journal
    Points of failure for PCs in dusty environments are the hard drives and fans. I'm looking to build a similar unit like you're describing that is completely void of moving parts (aside from the fan in the power supply, but power supplies are cheap to replace). What parts am I looking for? Mini-itx, VIA EPIA motherboard [google.com] with a built-in VIA C3 processor that runs without the need of a processor fan (heat-sink still needed, obviously). CompactFlash to IDE adapter [google.com] that allows me to install a compactflash card as the media storage device. Due to budget issues, I'm restricted to maybe 1GB or 2GB of disk space, but that's plenty for me to install linux with X and fluxbox or enlightenment. I'll also be running VNC or NX client [nomachine.com] in order to remotely control a desktop on a server safely sitting on my desk in the home office---essentially making the computer a thin client. Since I'm reusing my monitor (if it goes bad, I won't care), keyboard, and mouse, the total cost could feasibly fall under $600.

  • I use a Neoware neostation 2000. Its a Cyrix 233 chip with an SODIMM and DIMM slot, an IDE header, a PCI slot and sound/nic/video all built in. I net boot mine because I have ethernet strung everywhere, but since their is an IDE header you could easily just pop a drive in there. The unit is totally fanless and has lasted in my garage for some time. Not the fastest thing in the world, but runs linux well, surfs the web and plays mp3's just fine.

  • Don't forget electrical cleanliness... (Score:3, Informative)

    by constantnormal ( 512494 ) on Sunday January 09, 2005 @09:56PM (#11307309)
    ... unless you completely isolate your workshop computer electrically (as with a notebook that accompanies you to & from the shop), the electrical noise from the motors in power tools is likely to feed back through the power & drive a computer nuts.

    A separate, filtered power line would be best. Or maybe a car battery driving the PC through an AC inverter, and recharged via a rooftop solar panel.

    links:
    solar trickle charger [batteries.com]
  • will do - I have had this problem at a dusty plant. Just give it a plastic dust cover and cover it up when you leave, or when you are sawing wood or similar.
  • You can pick them up for under a grand. Plus they are bulletproof :)
  • Make sure your video card does not require a fan to work. It will be just one more thing to break and fix later.

  • Epia? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by phorm ( 591458 ) on Sunday January 09, 2005 @10:00PM (#11307320) Journal
    How about a cheap Epia with wireless?

    I'm going on the assumption that you're going to have better machines in the house and not using this one for games, etc. The less powerful (but still more than enough for a VNC client) Epia mobos shouldn't need a fan, and if you want you could get a DC power adaptor and laptop brick to save on the cost of a PSU (no fan on the DC adaptor). Depending on what you install the mobo should also be able to handle some video streams, etc

    So far in $CAD that's about:
    $50-60: DC PSU $15+: 12V 3a, Laptop power brick
    $150 or so: Epia (motherboard, CPU, video, LAN, sound etc included)
    under $100: Wireless NIC
    under $100: small hard-drive
    under $100: RAM

    If you know a little about linux (or know somebody who can help you) then you could get rid of the hard-drive by running something that boots from a USB stick or perhaps an MMC card (some epias support MMC boot devices, and I've heard of adaptors to plug them into a hard-drive jack)

    Obviously you could save by scavenging the RAM, drives, etc from other machines as well, so the only cost of "new" items would be the epia, DC PSU, and power brick. No fans means dust is much less of a problem too.

  • No Moving Parts (Score:3, Insightful)

    by n6mod ( 17734 ) on Sunday January 09, 2005 @10:04PM (#11307335) Homepage
    Moving parts are bad.

    You want to get a passively-cooled system, including the power supply, and just make sure there are decent filters on the vents. With no forced airflow, they won't plug up too badly.

    Mini-ITX comes to mind, booting from flash.

    Now, any system like this is going to be a dog, so what you want to do is run this as a remote terminal. Either an X-Terminal or Remote Desktop depending on your OS of choice.

    As for keyboard/mouse, my garage computer has a Cirque keyboard with a touchpad. Cirque makes a drool cover for the keyboard that covers the pad, and it works fine with the extra layer of plastic. An optical mouse is probably OK as well, but I think you'll be cleaning out a touchpad a lot less.

    Display is harder. LCDs are very temperature sensitive. CRTs always have warnings about low temperatures, but I've never had a problem with mine. I don't live in a very cold place, though. 25F happens half a dozen times a year.

    HTH

    -Z

  • idotpc (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Lord Byron II ( 671689 ) on Sunday January 09, 2005 @11:14PM (#11307667)
    Try idotpc.com or another fanless solution. After getting tired of my parent's computers dying or making screaming noises because of cat hair in the fans, I bought them each one. They're great computers and perfect if you can live with a Via chip.

  • Advice from a serious woodworker... (Score:3)

    by log0n ( 18224 ) on Monday January 10, 2005 @08:37AM (#11309322)
    (I build guitars/basses, furniture, pens, other tools, speakers, computer cases, LCD front and rear projection TV housings, etc.. my workshop includes benchtop plainers and jointers, table saws, 14" band saws, the real stuff)

    DO NOT PUT A COMPUTER IN YOUR WORKSHOP.

    I can't stress that enough. You do not want to have this kind of distraction around powertools. While I've never been hurt (not by luck, by being obsessed about safety) I've seen more than my share of ripped off fingers, sawed up bones from people mentally slipping or getting distracted by anything and everything. You DO NOT want this to happen to you.

    A computer will distract you when you should be focused on the tools. If you want to double check a plan, you stop what you are doing to check it. You do not glance up at a monitor or a screen in mid cut. That's when your loss of focus will harm you. The stop/start, while inefficient and probably conflicts with your inner geek, is needed and there for a reason.

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