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Wireless Networking Media Music Software Hardware Linux

Linux Powers Wireless Mesh Music System 109

Posted by michael from the your-demo-won't-crash dept.
An anonymous reader writes "A startup has created a unique Linux-based home music distribution system based on secure peer-to-peer wireless mesh networking technology. The system can route the same or different songs, sourced from any connected computer, to as many as 30 audio output devices simultaneously. Sonos is showcasing its technology this week at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas."
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Linux Powers Wireless Mesh Music System More

Linux Powers Wireless Mesh Music System

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  • 30 simultaneous streams? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 07, 2005 @09:39AM (#11287088)
    And to think -- all this time I've been listening to 30 CD players stacked on top of each other.

  • Hmmm? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Gentlewhisper ( 759800 ) on Friday January 07, 2005 @09:39AM (#11287091)
    Does this build itself on the fact that..

    1) More and more homes are getting wireless networks
    2) Many of these meshes actually overlap?

    I foresee a new internet of the future! One that runs on top of our existing home networking kits! The One True Internets!
    • So how long before RIAA jumps all over this? They could use the same P2P arguments they have used against Kazaa and others. Your neighbor could receive the stream from your system and not legally own the music. Not that you can't do the same thing by turning on your radio, but they tend to overlook obvious things like that.

      • I RTFA and the sharing is done in "secure" form, meaning who knows what as the details are definitely missing. Most likely it is a configured mesh network wherein the connections are limited to a set group somehow, but the article does not specifically address this issue.

        It would be intersting to know the RIAA's take on this. In theory, this is no different that running a multi-zone audio system in your house if utilized as the marketing article states. However, it would appear that you could create large

    • I foresee a new internet of the future! One that runs on top of our existing home networking kits! The One True Internets!

      None of us would be responsible for the content flying across the networks as we would all be ISPs!

    • Re:Hmmm? (Score:3, Informative)

      by NardofDoom ( 821951 )
      Apple has a feature called "Share My Internet Connection" that takes precisely six clicks to turn on and configure.

      Theoretically, you could have this turned on by default in every computer with an Airport card installed and you'll have a roaming mesh network, so long as just one computer can get on an access point.

      • Re:Hmmm? (Score:3, Interesting)

        by larkost ( 79011 )
        Except that the connection sharing feature just turns on a DHCP server and changes the routing table to match. This does nothing about calculating network paths or any of the other task necessary for mesh networks. In addition to that, the airport cards can either be in "peer-to-peer" or "infrastructure" modes. They can't share and connect to a base station at the same time.

        People have already solved these issues, and there is open source to do it, but it has nothing to do with "Share My Internet Connectio
      • I'm not sure a bunch of WiFi access points is the same thing as a mesh network. Mesh networks [microsoft.com] are self-organizing routers that can (dynamically?) route packets directly from node to node. Access points simply are wireless network connections to what every network they are connected to (no routing or packet forwarding).

        I suppose you could operate your 802.11b/g APs in adhoc [webopedia.com] mode, but I'm not sure that provides the required routing for true mesh networking.
        • Yes they would have to dynamically route the packets otherwise it wouldn't really be a mesh of anything. The beauty of mesh networking is that it dynamically switches to the next closest hop.
  • Anyone know about how I could make my own Linux Music System? This one's pretty and all, but having seen MythTV's prettyness compared to this device's GUI, I am thinking there's probably a pretty good way to do this myself.

    MythTV is for TV, and while it does some audio, I'm betting there's something better specifically for audio control, and may even be able to control AM/FM PCI cards etc...
    • For our New Year's party I used a wireless laptop that nfs-mounted a big mp3 collection from a server and used xmms with a playlist generated with grave.
      Most of the tunes were encoded at 256K. Looking at network traffic, the wireless channel would be quiet for 4 seconds, then the player would move 50 packets in the 5th second, then quiet for 4 more seconds, and so on. Interesting pattern that illustrates nfs read-ahead.

      The Sonos device is different in several respects. The main ones are the gui/controls
    • Actually you can do this with what the folks from http://www.slimdevices.com/ [slimdevices.com] have come up with. Their Slimserver software is written in Perl and is open source. Since it's all web based you can manage what's being played with a handheld.

      I do this at home and it works quite well. The SqueezeBox that they sell doesn't have any kind of amp built into it but it does plug right into your stereo (or you can use powered speakers).

  • Buzzword Checklist (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 07, 2005 @09:43AM (#11287126)
    "Music" - Check.
    "Distribution" - Check.
    "Network" - Check.
    "Peer-to-Peer" - Check.

    Helloooo, RIAA lawsuit!
  • The system can link up to 30 units and you can control them by wireless remote, but then you need to buy a separate set of speakers/subwoofer for each Amp?

    It's good that they tested it at a casino, beause that's one of the only business large enough to support such a device.
    • It's good that they tested it at a casino, beause that's one of the only business large enough to support such a device.

      Actually, assuming you could get some kind of special deal for buying in bulk, this would make an excellent modern jukebox replacement in a hip, upscale restaurant. Diners choose the songs they want to hear and pay some sort of fee for the privelege, equivalent to what the cost might be for a jukebox. Let's say they get charged 25c a song, and you have at least 2 songs playing at any poi
    • I don't know. I think a lot of people would find it convenient to have a household's music stored in one central location, as opposed to distributed across several computers.

      Add in the fact that this would let you sync all the speakers together to play a single song, for parties and whatnot, this becomes much more interesting.

  • Two risks (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    This new company has to rely on two risky technologies: 1) The ability to beam music across wireless networks. 2) The audio quality and limitations of its amplifiers. I would think that any startup would minimize its risks, and the safest move (to me) is to rely on the user's pre-amps and amplifiers and stick to the transmission and sync'ing of songs throughout the house...

    My 0.02
    • sync'ing of songs throughout the house

      Does this actually sync? I remember in rez we setup a shoutcast server in order to play the same music everywhere, but it would always get out of sync, which was pretty annoying.

  • Radio ? (Score:5, Funny)

    by jonv ( 2423 ) on Friday January 07, 2005 @09:49AM (#11287176)
    Wireless music distribution ? Must be this new 'Radio' thing.
  • Having browsed the article, I like what I see. I like the set up, I like the single controller, I like that I can also control it from my desktop, and I like that it is based on Linux (i.e. Probably a little more crash-proof than what we saw from Bill and his minions earlier this week.) I also think it has a nice look to it. I have a lot of digital audio files and being able to store them in one location would be great. I know this is not a new innovation, but so far I think it is the most attractive option

  • Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Friday January 07, 2005 @09:52AM (#11287196)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • I have to agree with you here. I am obviously an avid Mac guy, but I would like to see more devices like this open to Linux users. I am thinking about setting up a second desktop at home and I very much want to make it a Linux box. However, it makes it difficult to do that when I see things like this.
    • what good is running Linux on a device if it doesn't support the linux desktop as well? Did I miss something in TFA?

      Well, you'll probably generally be using the controller to control the system. The software applications are probably seen as a secondary thing.

      I'm guessing it's only a matter of time before a linux version is available too. Just keep in mind, developing each client application takes a reasonable amount of time, so they're probably focusing on the largest markets first.

      The point of develop
    • My (better, IMO) solution was to buy a couple of squeezeboxes from slimdevices.com and put the server app on a Linux machine, although it's just perl, so you could put it anywhere, I suppose.

      Not the cheapest solution, but it was quite easy to set up, and it can be extended with plugins. There's a decent sized developer community doing plugins for pretty much anything you'd want.

    • From TFA: "Each ZonePlayer offers a four-port Ethernet switch, and can access media files stored on Macintosh or Windows shares, or on Linux-based NAS volumes supporting CIFS."

      It sounds like it should work with a Samba share (I think?). That's good enough for me.

      "Ogg Vorbis is not supported in the initial firmware release, according to Sonos founder John MacFarlane (who previously founded software.com), but would be simple to add in subsequent revisions. He adds that the device is not intended for user
    • I don't think it's any better for running linux if the interface isn't even linux supported. If it does in fact support Samba and such, it'd be nice if these idiots would get a little technical on us for once and tell us if we'd have a problem or not. It says NAS supported, but that could still mean a lot of things. Anyway, these people need to get a bit more technical before I even think about buying it. I'm not buying anything if it requires Windows. In the case of hardware though, I guess I'll just have

  • Lines? (Score:5, Funny)

    by StevenHenderson ( 806391 ) <[moc.liamg] [ta] [nosrednehevets]> on Friday January 07, 2005 @09:52AM (#11287198)
    based on secure peer-to-peer wireless mesh networking technology

    What? It's longer than 15 lines? BLOATWARE!!!!1

  • Popular Science Magazine (Score:4, Interesting)

    by greenhide ( 597777 ) <jordanslashdotNO@SPAMcvilleweekly.com> on Friday January 07, 2005 @09:52AM (#11287201)
    According to the website pdatoday.com, Sonos Digital Music System was on Popular Science Magazine's '2004 Best of What's New' [pdatoday.com]. This news tidbit was posted November 10, 2004. So, while this is still a relatively new item, it must have been available for review at least for a few months.
  • Am I reading the website correctly? I see each audio "Zone Player [sonos.com]" costs $500? Isn't that a bit pricy, considering you'd want one in several rooms?
    • That doesn't include speakers :D
    • I think it's reasonable if you compare it to the cost of installing a centralized music system. It's also very elegant for a do-it-yourself system. Granted there are some people for whom this simply won't be simple enough, but it's a hell of a bargain for people that don't want to spend a crapload of money wiring their house for sound. professional installation can easily run several hundred dollars per room, and at first glance this appears to have a cool interface.

      This really appears to offer a cool solut

    • Isn't that a bit pricy, considering you'd want one in several rooms?

      This is targeted at people who spend $65K on window treatments. People who buy their neighbors a new Mercedes AMG convertible so they don't complain about the new deck which is in violation of the sub rules. Those are real examples from a residential customer I have consulted for.

      There really are a lot of ex-microsofties (and others) with lots of cash who want a serious whole-house solution. Unfortunately, while the mesh network buzz
      • I disagree, it's really for the do-it-yourselfer. the People you're talking about would have a better solution with in-wall speakers and very cool touchpanels in the wall that control the system. some people think the remotes are cooler, but trust me, you never lose a wall panel. frequently these panels control lighting and home theater deployment as well.
    • An Airport Express is $129, plays music, and can extend a wireless network from a "base" access point several times.

      $129/ea. $500/ea. Hmmm.

      Maybe if someone partnered with Apple to make a hand-held "remote" for iTunes like Sonos has done for its $500 "zone players", it could be a marketable product.

      • Okay, with airport express you have to use your desktop/laptop as a remote control -- that's not what you want to do if you're hosting a party that's not in a dorm room.

        Also, airport express plays to one room, max, and I'm pretty sure you can't even synchronously play from the computer's speakers while you do that. With Sonos, you can dynamically group zone-players to be playing the same or different content seamlessly through your whole house. Airport express is just not even on the same planet, as far

        • Re:$500/node? (Score:3, Insightful)

          by 1010011010 ( 53039 )

          Simple changes to iTunes would put it on the same level.
          • It is by no means easy or simple to get music to synchronously, wirelessly play on two different nodes (not to mention the case where only one node is in range of the computer). And still you need a full computer as a remote control.
      • Why this comparison suddenly looks like PC and Mac?

        something like 300$ and 1300$? :-D

  • Multiple Remotes (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Punboy ( 737239 ) * on Friday January 07, 2005 @09:56AM (#11287226) Homepage
    In order for this to work for me, I would need the ability to have multiple remotes on the system and be able to limit each remote to a specific room and/or set of rooms. This way, parents can control their rooms, and kids can control their's. Also, what would be nice is if two remotes are in the same room, one of them would take control and the other couldn't (for example if a kid and parent are in the same room, the parent would take control). Any idea if this is possible with Sonos?
    • My understanding from their site is that the former is exactly how it works. Honestly, my first thought is "Now That's What I'm Talkin' About!". I'm ->this- close to making my own juke box now that I can buy a couple of 800 gb hard drives (enough to hold all of my music losslessly compressed) and this could just about convince me to get it instead.

      I don't think it does the latter easily, though - it seems to link controllers to ouputs, but you know it's programmable.

      It's not outlandishly more expensive
      • Oops. Make that a coupla 400 gb drives. My clairvoyance took over my fingers accidentally.

        Mark
      • A little more rooting around their website comes up with this regarding compression:

        "Plays compressed MP3, WMA, and AAC (MPEG4) music files as well as uncompressed WAV files."

        Uncompressed WAV is fine by me...

        Also, you are on your own for storage of your music - this just enables you to play it back from whereever you want. So I'm still stuck with buying those 400 gb drives and paying my kids to rip cd's for me. ;-)

        Mark
        • You should try encoding all of your stuff in a lossless format, like Apple's lossless AAC. The box should be able to handle the lossless AAC, so then u have compressed lossless. ;-p

  • dreamcast as remote? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by pr0nbot ( 313417 ) on Friday January 07, 2005 @09:58AM (#11287245)

    The Sonos System includes a handheld "Controller" system, based on a Hitachi SoC (system-on-chip) with an SH-4 processor core.

    Isn't that the Dreamcast CPU?

  • iPod (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 07, 2005 @09:58AM (#11287248)
    Look at the handheld "Controller" !

    http://www.linuxdevices.com/files/misc/sonos_contr oller.jpg [linuxdevices.com]

    There IS an iPod click-wheel on it. Doesn't Apple have a patent on that piece of design ?...
    • Actually it looks like an (uglier)iPod turned sideways and with more buttons.

      Maybe we can see the Apple webcast and check if Jobs has any comment on this... oh, nevermind.
    • My guess is apple's patent is restricted to use on personal media type devices, either that or Sonos is going to get slammed.

      • Or they might be licensing it from Apple. Patents don't prevent others from using the tech, just from using it without permission.

  • Must be nice (Score:3, Interesting)

    by afidel ( 530433 ) on Friday January 07, 2005 @10:00AM (#11287259)
    to have so many rooms that you have to worry about something like this =) Personally I just use my 3 room setup with my multichannel reciever and a wifi CE device for programming. It's a bit geeky but more standard audio geek with a streaming net radio twist than something like this which is very technogeek.
  • Isn't there anything simpler and cheaper that this? I recently bought a couple AirportExpress units for Apple user friends of mine. They are sort of what I am looking for, but I am not interested in using iTunes at all, and it seems like that is the only, or most convenient way of using the audio playback capabilities of the unit.


    What WiFi device can i purchase for approx. $100 that will play all computer audio over WiFi?

    • Got back to airport express. There is third party streaming software setup for it now. It was one of the first hacks that people started putting out for the AE.
    • Check out Slimdevices [slimdevices.com] for what they have to offer. The server software is free and comes in Windows, Linux, and Mac OS X flavours. The Squeezebox's [slimdevices.com] are a little over $100 but you can you a browser, media player of a java Squeezebox emulator called Softsqueeze [sourceforge.net] to play the music. It will also stream WAV, MP3, Ogg, Flac, Apple Lossless, AAC, WMA, and Windows Lossless files with the proper config. It won't play DRM versions of AAC or WMA files though. It supports synchronizing Squeezeboxes as well as does the S
  • I have a Large music collection which I play through a Slimdevices Squeezebox [slashdot.org].

    A great deal of effort goes into the very active product development.

    One problem I see with this new device is performance. Accessing a lot (100-500 GB) of music through CIFS.. Are you kidding? How is that music going to be indexed? How long is the scanning and indexing going to take? Is the index cached after it is created?

    Looks cool. But knowing how much effort goes into fixing the inevitable bugs with such a complex produ
    • Given that a large part of their market has CIFS built in, and given that linux and most other platforms have great CIFS support (samba), what's the problem? You're only indexing metadata. Why wouldn't they cache the index? This product has been in a testable state for some time now -- they're just getting the hardware out the door.

      Do you really know anything about NFS internals? It's an old system, and later versions have just been focused on generating more research papers and not on improving user e
    • Veering well off topic...

      But how well do you like your SlimDevice squeezebox? I'm looking for something that looks nice (a wifely requirement) to hook up to the stereo to play mp3's from a file-share. If the squeezebox had a really nice remote like the Sono's, I'd jump at it, but for now, I'm holding off.
      • But how well do you like your SlimDevice squeezebox?

        I actually have one of the earliest Slimp3's (precursor to the Squeezebox). It doesn't even have an enclosure.

        I love it. I give the developers a lot of flak because I think they put too much emphasis on new features and not enough on core stability and performance. But the fact is, there is NOTHING that comes close. I don't see how a proprietary product ever could.

        I suggest you setup the server software and experiment with Softsqueeze. It is a pure
      • Have you looked at the Roku SoundBridge?

  • Hey! (Score:2, Interesting)

    by BJH ( 11355 )

    The Sonos Controller and ZonePlayers are powered by a Linux implementation that Sonos developed in-house. The implementation is based on a 2.4 kernel, with backporting of threading and other features from 2.6, according to MacFarlane. "We have a great team of ex-Microsoft people who are real comfortable with kernel-level work," MacFarlane says, adding that some of Sonos's Microsoft expats worked on the FrontPage team. The team is working on a 2.6 kernel implementation, but felt the new kernel was not yet s
  • ...you can just use a simple FM transmitter kit like they sell on ebay to accomplish just about the same thing...


  • import -a remote1.com /dev/audio /n/remote_audio/remote1
    import -a remote1.com /dev/audio /n/remote_audio/remote2

    for (r in /n/remote_audio/*) {
    cat /usr/home/music/tune.wav > $r &
    }

    or, more probably, you'd do it on the client

    import -a remote1.com /usr/home1/music/ /n/remote1.com/music

    bind -a /n/remote1.com/music /n/music

    cat /n/music/tune1.wav > /dev/audio

    add a few more machines to make a library

    import -a remote2.com /usr/home2/music/ /n/remote2.com/music
    bind -a /n/remote2.com/music /n/mus

  • Sync (Score:1)

    by PHanT0 ( 148738 )
    I once tried something like this with ICEcast/ShoutCAST and a bunch of less-known streamers/players. This one would have the p2p advantage but does it really play them in sync?

    Every player/steamer I used would play songs 'at the same time' but you they weren't in sync so one source would sound upto 5 seconds ahead/behind of the next.
  • That scrollwheel with the button in the center sure looks like the iPod one... I wonder how apple feel about this.
  • I've been trying to get my iPaq 3270 to play a shoutcast stream from its TRENDNet CF/ethernet card, but it never works (WMP, MortPlayer, GSPlayer all seem too buggy). I'd dump its WinCE3.0.99347:9616 for an ARM/SA1110 Linux if there were a version stable enough to run sshd and a shoutcast player, with a complete install HOWTO. Who's got these tiny, silent, cheap media terminals running?

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