Are Nanotube Monitors In Your Future? 191
cmburns69 writes "There is an article over on CNET News about some new nanotube technology which could replace LCD flat panel displays. "These 'field effect displays,' or FEDs, will consume less energy than plasma or liquid crystal display (LCD) TVs, deliver a better picture and even cost less.". The article is mostly focused on the FED technology, but also includes a summary of what other new display technology is coming up such as SEDs and slim CRTs. "
Sweet (Score:1)
Re:Sweet (Score:1)
Re: Sweet (Score:3, Funny)
Honey!
Re: Sweet (Score:2)
(thanks, Mr. Dangerfield)
Early adopters (Score:3, Interesting)
The early adopter market is great for high tech because they:
You can imagine that if some company creating these things were to decide to just jump right to mass market, they would have huge problems with the volumes
burn-in? (Score:2)
I woulnd't buy a burn-in-prone HDTV set at any price. Maybe if i get it for free...
That's why i'm looking at DLP displays for my next purchase.
Re:burn-in? (Score:2)
I used to own a thirty five year old tv that had no burn-in, despite being used daily.
Re:burn-in? (Score:2)
What if you view 4:3 shows a lot on a 16:9 CRT? I betcha you didn't do that to your 35 year old CRT.
That's the problem with HDTV sets - there's still a lot of 4:3 content that will burn itself "nicely" into the phosphor.
No, stretching the image is not a solution. I will never own such a stupid device. If anyone would try to sell me such a thing, i'll probably get pretty angry.
I mean, if my current TV would distort the images as badly as a 16:9 stretching a 4:3 image, i would probably throw it away.
I
Re:burn-in? (Score:3, Interesting)
The sections on the side, when they were used for 16:9 content, would look brighter,whiter and have a hint of minty freshness to boot, compared to the drab, 4000hr old 4:3 section of the Teev.
Drugged up Diamands (Score:1, Offtopic)
Do you suppose the author meant dropped? Otherwise, I hope that dust has glaucoma!
Re:Drugged up Diamands (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Drugged up Diamands (Score:3, Informative)
See: Dictionary.Com's definition of Doped, entry 4 (Electronics) [reference.com]
Still is pretty funny, though.
Re:Drugged up Diamands (Score:2)
Re:Drugged up Diamands (Score:3, Informative)
Do you suppose the author meant dropped? Otherwise, I hope that dust has glaucoma!
I suspect the author really meant "doped", as in adding an artificial impurity to create a semiconductor. (It might sell well either way, however...)
Re:Drugged up Diamands (Score:2)
Re:Drugged up Diamands (Score:3, Interesting)
Originally, it referred to "Airplane Dope" which we know these days as "Model Glue". By squirting the glue into a bag and breathing the fumes, you'd get a good high. The original "dopers" (1940ish?) were ones who did this.
Somewhere along the line (probably 1960s), the definition shifted (mainly because of term-illiterate media people wh
Define cost less (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Define cost less (Score:4, Insightful)
Every single one of them. And in reality that's all just a bunch of marketing BS. Maybe it might be true when they massaged their 20 year sales projection numbers the right way, or if they stretch the truth on performance to the very edge.
Unfortunately, Slashdot, like every other site, gets sucked into the better/faster/cheaper nonsense everytime it comes up.
Re:Define cost less (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Define cost less (Score:2)
It's like they issue these marketing FUD filled press releases the second after the scientists make a discovery that could, possibly, in 10-15 years, enable them to develop a new display technology.
Re:Define cost less (Score:2)
Understood. And to a certain extent, you're right -- there is a whole lot of marketing crap that is put out there for public consumption in the hopes of attracting investors or what have you. But the alternative to hearing about all these new developments is to not hear about anything until it is actually usuable by the public -- and
Re:Define cost less (Score:4, Insightful)
just that all we ever hear about are all these amazing magical technologies that will blow the existing techs away.
You mean like plasma screens? You know, it wasn't that many years ago that we were discussing, right here on Slahsdot[*1], an article that sounded just like this one, but was introducing a hot new display technology called <fingerquote style="Dr. Evil">"plasma"</fingerquote> that was going to enable flat displays to be made bigger/better/cheaper than was possible with LCDs.
Then too, the article was overly enthusiastic; then too, some of us got prematurely excited about it; then too, others soberly advised waiting for actual products, etc. In short, it was exactly the same as this. And yet, the technology really did arrive eventually.
You're right that it's stupid to get all excited about an R&D concept demo (or even an actual prototype) as if it were an actual product (and by the way, it's called vaporware [catb.org], not FUD [catb.org] -- similar concepts but an important distinction). But it would be just as dumb to completely scoff off all new-tech press releases. We should take an article like this for what it is, no more, no less: a preview of one of the (several, competing) possibilities for what might become the next generation of display technology.
We know there's going to be a next generation, and between SED, FED, OLED, Thin-CRT, and WIMF, there's an exciting amount of potential for displays to get dramatically bigger, better, and cheaper sometime in the not-too-distant future. I for one am content to leave it at that, and interested to keep an eye on developments on all those avenues.
--
[1] At least, some of us, who were around back then. I think I'm supposed to make a comment about
Re:Define cost less (Score:2)
Re:Define cost less (Score:2)
Wrong comparison. (Score:2)
Yeah, but Plasma,LCD and OLED's were revolutionary in the way they produce the light in the displays. FED's only use the existing phosphore pixels technology that we have been using in our CRT's for decades.
The revolutionary (and therefore expensive) part of Field Emission Displays are the nanotube arrays replacing the bulky vac
Re:Define cost less (Score:3, Insightful)
These days, most people seem to be buying televisions with screens larger than 35". And they cost a bit more than $250.
If you build it, somebody with a small penis will buy it.
Re:Define cost less (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Define cost less (Score:2)
Remember to close your blinds first so Godzillapenis doesn't scare the hell out of your neighbours.
Newsflash! (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Newsflash! (Score:1)
Re:Newsflash! (Score:2)
Re:Newsflash! (Score:2)
a fed??? (Score:1)
Obligatory (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Obligatory (Score:3, Funny)
It's their new plan to monitor and prosecute copyright violations.
"This is the FED9000. Cancel that illegal music download and step away from the computer"
Mork and Mindy (Score:1)
Re:Mork and Mindy (Score:3, Funny)
That does it. We need a "Not Funny -1" mod option.
Re:Mork and Mindy (Score:2)
Re:Mork and Mindy (Score:2)
Same Line (Score:5, Insightful)
This seems to be the spin for any new display technology that's being hawked, regardless of development, deployment or truth.
Re:Same Line (Score:2)
coming 'soon' (Score:2)
I'm using a 6 year old, deep, non-flat 21" CRT behemoth at home, and I'm still waiting for some type of shallow-depth flat display to come along that doesn't have colour issues or slow response time. Oh, and that's affordable!
I'd _really_ love to reclaim all that deskspace. I'm thinking two 19" flat panel displays, mounted from above (I have a 'Jerker' desk from I
Re:coming 'soon' (Score:2)
I'm still waiting for... (Score:2)
Now to just program the R2 unit to fetch me "Cold Ones"...
Re:I'm still waiting for... (Score:2)
Oh, and btw, your signature should read "People are like a bowl of cereal... so few marshmallows in so much cereal" It's not the intellegent people that are like the cereal. You could also say "Intellegent people are like the marshmallows in Lucky charms" or something.
Re:I'm still waiting for... (Score:2)
Re:I'm still waiting for... (Score:2)
How hard can it be to spell R2-D2?? OTOH, spelling AC/DC is pretty hard [laughingoutlaw.com.au]
Neat toy (Score:2)
I'm still using CRTs. Bleh.
for the lazy: the ghosting question (Score:3, Informative)
Like an LCD, an FED is made up of layers. A layer of glass is coated with a cathode and a layer of diamond dust coated with lithium or carbon nanotubes. The negatively charged cathode, organized in a grid, then emits electrons through the diamonds or nanotubes, which focus that energy like a tiny lightening rod.
But then, like a CRT, the electrons shoot through a vacuum at a layer of phosphorescent glass covered with pixels. The big difference is that the source of electrons, the carbon, is located only 1 millimeter to 2 millimeters rather than nearly 2 feet from the target glass, and instead of one electron source--the electron gun--there are thousands. The electrons are attracted to the pixilated glass because this layer contains a positively charged anode.
"This generates light the same way a CRT tube does," said Pitstick, leading to similar picture quality. At the same time, a FED is only slightly thicker than an LCD panel.
Re:for the lazy: the ghosting question (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:for the lazy: the ghosting question (Score:2)
That type of ghosting is due to poor signal quality (analog) and often times the primary signal is reflected, and shifed in time (and therefore horizontally). You can prove it is not the DISPLAY easily enough with a VCR. Tape the ghosted program, and play it back on a plasma or LCD TV.
Re:for the lazy: the ghosting question (Score:2, Insightful)
It does have an effect on television, but certainly to a lesser degree because of the limited motion onscreen (unless of course it is a cheap LCD). The LCDs, or at least the expensive ones, are progressing to a point where many people don't notice the ghosting. I certai
saw one in '99 (Score:1)
New TVs (Score:1)
Hooray for new TV technologies (Score:2, Insightful)
Whatever. Go to fucking circuit city and notice that anything other than a "plain ole tv set" costs an order of magnitude more, and doesn't even boast a better image.
LCoS SED Plasma OLED LCD DLP SHOMORK
So lets take the buzzword of the day and rebadge it as "TV tech of teh futore".
Nanotubes.
WiFi Nanotubes, with iTunes.
Just like plasmas... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Just like plasmas... (Score:2)
You Communist. We don't use home equity, we use Credit Cards. Go back to Havana, Fidel.
Re:Just like plasmas... (Score:2)
What happened? (Score:2)
Re:What happened? (Score:1)
Or DLP a la the new slim light engine sets.
Or LCD
Or SED
Whatever, the CRT is going to be the dominant player in everything but the "high end" for a long, long time. A whole bunch of pie-in-the-sky type ideas, none of which have lead to cheap, high-def sets for the masses, but all have fizzled.
Only CRT's have delivered high-def sets that are anywhere close to the price range of the old, regular sets.
So much for next years big switch to all digital television.
Are nanotube monitors in my future (Score:3, Funny)
Ah, good old FEDs (Score:2)
Re:Ah, good old FEDs (Score:2)
> for a lot longer than that
I think Byte did one or two of those technology "exposé" article with two-page glossies on FD, so I guess it was more than 8 years ago then. When did Byte die anyway, and I mean the print edition?
No (Score:1)
To be installed in your flying car (Score:2)
I read about new tech all the time, but the only thing I ever see sold are incremental improvements to existing technologies. Maybe I should move to Japan or something. Where are my consumer priced video-phones, laser guns, flying cars, transporters, cloaking devices, etc.????
Re:To be installed in your flying car (Score:2)
Re:You just don't notice because of the hype (Score:2)
What about your laser based optical storage?
An interesting advance, but not really revolutionary. It does the same thing as magnetic media, just marginally better.
Your flash memory cards
Memory has been around for a long time, it has just gotten cheaper.
your digital cameras,
A more advanced camera, is not exactly a revolutionary new device. It is functionally the same as traditional cameras.
your LCD monitors
A thinner and lighter monitor with worse color and picture, wow yeah that is revolutio
But Do they Beat OLEDS? (Score:5, Informative)
The article is interesting and IMHO, new display technologies will always find their niche. But I've always thought the "next-gen" technology to beat LCD flat-screen or plasma displays was going to be OLEDs [wikipedia.org].
On the one hand, OLEDs still have some problems with lifetimes--even research devices that I saw in grad school might degrade quickly. And of course I haven't seen anyone really give proof that single-walled nanotubes (SWNT) used in these FEDs can be produced cost-effectively.
However, unlike these technologies, OLEDs have already been produced as prototypes in sizes as large as 40" [slashdot.org] (by Seiko Epson) and being used in products like Digital Cameras [slashdot.org] and MP3/Ogg players [slashdot.org] and being mass-produced by companies like Sony [slashdot.org].
Previous Slashdot stories on OLEDs:3 7 [slashdot.org] m l?tid=137 [slashdot.org] 2 34.shtml [slashdot.org] l ?tid=137&tid=141&tid=159&tid=184&tid=186&tid=188 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/10/15/20172
http://slashdot.org/articles/03/03/04/0127213.sht
http://science.slashdot.org/science/04/03/09/0112
http://slashdot.org/articles/04/05/05/004227.shtm
Re:But Do they Beat OLEDS? (Score:4, Informative)
The problem with OLED is that it's a technology which is basically being developed from scratch. Variants on OLED are even being developed, to circumvent (among other things) the longevity issues with especially the blue component of OLED (10,000 to 20,000 hours so far).
The thing is that SED and FED are pretty much evolved versions of the venerable CRT: they've got 'electron guns', a vacuum, and a layer build up out of phosphors. Only big differences are the number of electron guns (tens of thousands instead of three) and the distance between the electron guns and the phosphor layer (millimeters instead of tens of centimeters).
SED in particular stands a good chance, as it uses existing manufacturing techniques for the electron gun-layer and further basically replicates a CRT. FED tries to do things a bit fancier, which requires more R&D, and thus more time to bring it to the market.
So in summary, OLED and FED are still (partially) in a research stadium, while SED is ready to be marketed: the first SED displays (TVs) will apppear in 2005, with computer displays appearing in 2006. That's according to Toshiba's PR-department, at least :p
Link to general information on SED: SED [canon.com]
Re:But Do they Beat OLEDS? (Score:2)
But I still think in the long run, that OLED or similar technology wins. For one, each individual element is light-emitting, meaning you can easily have pixels composed of hundreds or thousands of individual OLEDs -- to prevent "dead pixel" problems. Maybe, just ma
Re:But Do they Beat OLEDS? (Score:3, Interesting)
I quote from this page [arstechnica.com]:
"Current large screen OLED devices consume far more power than LCDs [..]"
So it appears that OLED seems to have a problem with power efficiency in addition to the longevity of its pixels. Definitely not a good sign. The article I quoted from also specifies 2008 as the date when OLED might enter mass-production. Still a long way off, in other words.
As for SED, take a look at this article: Toshiba's SED TV at CES [engadget.com]. First (big) TVs released this year, with production ramping up next
Re:But Do they Beat OLEDS? (Score:2)
Here's hoping all of those LCD plants the Koreans have built can be converted to SED or FED factories . .
I think OLED is dead for anythi
Re:But Do they Beat OLEDS? (Score:2)
I guess you should search it by yourself [google.com] (I found it on the First link [betterhumans.com]). The article title reads: "For cheap nanotubes, just add water". Oh, the Irony
Cost of carbon nanotubes problematic (Score:3, Interesting)
I RTFA, and those FED monitors sound pretty nice. The only problem is they require diamonds or carbon nanotubes to manufacture. Last I heard, carbon nanotubes are quite expensive to manufacture in any quantity (wikipedia seems to confirm this [wikipedia.org]). I'm not sure about the cost of the small syntehtic diamond that FEDs require, but I imagine they aren't cheap to make either (does anyone know?).
Hopefully a breakthrough will come along and make these things cheap to manufacture though, because FEDs sound like very cool technology.
Re:Cost of carbon nanotubes problematic (Score:4, Funny)
I'm not sure about the cost of the small syntehtic diamond that FEDs require, but I imagine they aren't cheap to make either (does anyone know?).
Wired has a love fest with synthetic diamonds [wired.com]
I recall a /. article from a year or two ago that spoke of a small company in the Massachusette's area that produced flawless white diamonds. They used some technique of using a diamond point of action, and layering carbon onto it, like a chip fab does. It seemed like they could produce fairly large quantities at minimal cost. I'm not sure if they have been shot by deBeers yet, tho.
SED? (Score:1)
So long as it works better than LCOS (Score:2)
(TV technology as vaporware... we've come a long way baby!)
To get the "doped" out of the way... (Score:1, Informative)
Nanotubes (Score:1)
It could scare people off... (Score:2)
Old News (Score:1)
Femtotube displays! (Score:4, Funny)
re: cost problematic (Score:2, Funny)
aw shit (Score:2, Funny)
Re:aw shit (Score:2)
Not really new but great to hear about (Score:2, Interesting)
First time I've heard of this technology it was 15 years ago. This has been originally developped at the LETI [www-leti.cea.fr] (a french research institute). PixTech [216.122.210.132] (also french) seems to be an emanation from this lab.
FED displays are based on the so-called 'tip effect' (not sure about the english term, in french it's 'effet de pointe'). This electromagnetic effect is what makes lightning rods work. To simplify, each pixel is thus basically filled with micro-lightning rods that throw particles towards the phosphore.
Bad choice of acronyms (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Bad choice of acronyms (Score:2)
Chose how many? (Score:2)
Isn't it always: Chose any two.
For the love of pete! (Score:4, Interesting)
We've been hearing for years about how nano-tubes are going to save mankind, make everything 100 times faster, 100x more energy efficient and taste 100% better.
So far not one commercial product has been produced that actually uses them for anything other than marketing hype. It's getting beyond tired.
"Nano-tube" is the call of the entrepreneur trying to get funding. All it takes is writing a paper or press release with the word "nano-tube" in it and people all jump to attention and thorw money. This is the 50th time we've heard it.
Keep researching but stop with the "This could be the greatest thing ever, why in two years blah blah blah" annoucements already. Just tell us when it's done and for sale.
nano tubes, nano tubes, nano tubes... (Score:2, Interesting)
Where are they, hanging out with Duke Nukem??
Watch out guys! (Score:2)
Sorry, I couldn't resist...
FED... (Score:2)
Discuss
Not again!! (Score:2)
Damnit! And I was just contemplating dumping my 1993 Nec Multisync CRT (seriously!) for an LCD screen.. But if these are gonna be so much better I wouldn't want to waste my money now....
Goddamn technology *mumble mumble*
HMM. :| (Score:2)
From the article:
So now the pixles are attached to the glass? WHAT?! Are the pixels little stickers or something??
I love articles written by people who have no idea what the hell they are saying.
Re:first post (Score:1, Redundant)
Re:In my future? (Score:2)
Bah, I already own the 155" unit. Widescreen.
Re:In my future? (Score:1, Funny)
Re:In essence, isn't this another type of OLED? (Score:2, Informative)
In any case, I believe the term field emitting diode only exists in very specialized situations. I feel that either all diodes emit fields, or none of them do, but I'm only an undergrad, so what do I know? Googling the term "Field emitting diode" will net you 4 incomprehensible results, so I suppose you can make of that what
Re:In essence, isn't this another type of OLED? (Score:4, Informative)
Perhaps the best definition that I could give for an organic compound is that it contains carbon in a reduced state. Generally (and almost always for compounds found in nature), that means at least one carbon in the compound is bonded to hydrogen. When plants carry out photosynthesis, they take an inorganic compound, CO2, and use a complex series of reactions catalyzed by enzymes to incorporate it into an organic molecule, glucose (C6H12O6). In the net balance, oxygens are pulled off of carbon dioxide (to our great benefit) and hydrogens are added on. The electronic properties of carbon atoms are altered in a way that makes them "organic."
Now, there are some places where this definition can get fuzzy, and they include the carbon allotropes like diamond and graphite. You can think of a carbon nanotube as a tessellation of fused benzene rings (in fact, some of the companies that make nanotubes use benzene as the starting material). However, benzene is organic (C6H6), and so are naphthalene (2 fused benzene rings, C10H8), anthracene, etc. As more and more rings are fused, though, the proportion of carbon to hydrogen increases greatly until the compound essentially consists exclusively of carbon bonded to carbon, which is an inorganic bond. No need to have your ignorance excused, though- as I said, it's a hazy definition, and the unfortunately terminology of "organic and inorganic" comes down to us from the days when people thought "organic" compounds possessed a sort of vital force that inorganic ones did not.
As for the point about LEDs, I don't know nearly as much in that area, but as the AC who responded to you already pointed out, there aren't light-emitting diodes involved here. As I understand it, the idea here is to create electron guns like those found in a CRT on a molecular scale. In the way that a the point on a lightning rod can "bleed off" charge, these nanotubes or diamond dust motes would bleed off electrons into a vacuum, where they'd fly across and excite a phosphor screen. I know that carbon nanotubes and certain doped diamonds can have semiconductor properties; presumably these would be used to control the current that bleeds off each nanoparticle, and consequently what you see on the screen.