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Hardware Hacking Businesses Software Media Media (Apple) Apple Linux

Latest Version of iPodLinux Reviewed 301

Posted by timothy from the whine-not dept.
Demolition writes "The latest release of the iPod-Linux Installer has been reviewed on Accelerate Your Mac!, a popular Mac performance/modification site. As mentioned in previous Slashdot articles, the iPodLinux Project is an open source venture devoted to porting Linux to Apple's iPod. In a nutshell, the reviewer finds that the iPodLinux Project has progressed a long way from its early proof-of-concept days."
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Latest Version of iPodLinux Reviewed More

Latest Version of iPodLinux Reviewed

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  • Sounds sketchy. (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 27, 2004 @08:54PM (#11196365)
    Is it digitally signed?
  • Am I the only one seeing the IPOD going the way of POG in a few years? Still this has some interesting implications.

    If people find out they might have the ability to do ohh so much more with they're $200+ toys, and they make it easy enough to port linux(has to be idiot proof), then we may find Linux getting much more exposure in pop culture. Unfortunately, I doubt they'll be able to make it user friendly enough.
    • Am I the only one seeing the IPOD going the way of POG in a few years? Still this has some interesting implications.

      Yes.
    • Other than sharing two letters in their names, what makes you think there is any similarity?

      In NYC, I can't go out for the day without seeing at least ten people with iPods. If I walk into a subway and look around, there is almost always at least one person wearing Apple's white earbuds. Sometimes, when it's crowded, there are three or four people in one car. I actually find it slightly embarassing pulling out my iPod (I don't use the white headphones) and getting looks of aknowledgement from those guys.

      I

  • This is quite exciting. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Sheetrock ( 152993 ) on Monday December 27, 2004 @09:03PM (#11196415) Homepage Journal
    While the iPos already does everything it needs to (decent music playback, excellent interface, remarkably durable) there would be a number of advantages to putting Linux on it.

    It would be possible to get third-party support for formats that are not officially supported, such as RealMedia or Microsoft DRM-protected audio files. Additionally the dial interface lends itself to use for reading e-book or USENET newsgroups, or for keeping an address book, phonebook, or the days events in your pocket.

    However, I wonder if the GPL would create problems in this sort of environment -- presumably there is content that is not open on the player that would be necessary to incorporate into this project. Perhaps it would be wiser to adopt something Open Source such as OpenBSD instead; it's a text-only environment, so the lack of graphical support would be a minor problem at best, and it contains a good deal of security features that would be beneficial should wired applications for this new platform be developed after this project takes off.

    • Re:This is quite exciting. (Score:3, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Since when is there support for Microsoft DRM-protected audio files for Linux? Did I miss an announcement of a WMA cracker somehow? Last I heard, the old WMA cracker (called unfuck.exe, I believe) doesn't work for anything except very old WMAs (format 1.0 maybe).


      Anyone have more specific information on this?

    • > Perhaps it would be wiser to adopt something Open Source
      > such as OpenBSD instead; it's a text-only environment, so the > lack of graphical support would be a minor problem at best

      When did OpenBSD drop support for XFree86 and x.org?

      Biggest online anime gallery's [sharkfire.net]
    • well the iPod already has a address/phone book, a todo list and a calendar. Not to mention games and a notes section that can be used for USENET newsgroups or e-books - there are already programs to get various web items onto it, like one that gets google news and outputs it onto the iPod when you sync it. But before I say any more I should probably go RTFA.

      • Re:This is quite exciting. (Score:4, Informative)

        by dTaylorSingletary ( 448723 ) on Monday December 27, 2004 @10:45PM (#11196882) Homepage

        In an effort to be more informative than "there are already programs to get various web items onto it, like one that gets google news and outputs it onto the iPod when you sync it", I did some quick googling..

        Googleget [mesmerized.org] - Grabs Google News and syncs it onto your iPod. Looks great, can't wait to try it.

        Many other iPod tools written in .NET for Windows (haven't found out if these are open-source, if so I'd love to try to port some of them to mono/gtk) available at iPodSoft [ipodsoft.com] -- I tried out a few of these and they look great.

        And then there's the big list over a iPodLounge [ipodlounge.com]...

    • Re:This is quite exciting. (Score:5, Interesting)

      by seanadams.com ( 463190 ) * on Monday December 27, 2004 @09:27PM (#11196527) Homepage
      I disagree - probably the only things that would be developed on top of iPod linux would be entirely new apps. Porting things like audio codecs or rewriting a work-alike of Apple's simple UI is trivial in comparison to the task of getting an OS with complete hardware driver support working on a custom embedded system.

      It would be simpler to reinvent those things than to try and get Apple's code to run atop Linux (through emulation of Apple's underlying firmware).

      The only reason not to GPL it is if you want to make it easier for Apple (or others) to reincorporate your improvements. That might be a good thing depending on your goals. I'd say porting Linux to the hardware is interesting per se, and could yield a groundswell of other OSS support - Apple has bigger fish to fry right now.

      Also realize: there are some generally accepted (but not explicit) rules that differentiate "derived" vs "aggregate" works when it comes to GPL. It is unlikely that using a GPL'd OS would preclude higher level apps like phone books from being offered under whatever license the author chooses.
    • IMHO such project has no chances for commercial adoption. First of all iPod is not only hardware - it is also part of a bigger system (think Mac, think iTunes etc.). Apple now is in quite big control over this product, and it simply works for normal user. And also probably iPod EULA (or something similar - I don't really own one) forbids you to use something different than Apple software on iPod (FIXME here).

      Linux version is nice thing to have. If somebody really want to go with this overpriced hardware (y
      • "And also probably iPod EULA (or something similar - I don't really own one) forbids you to use something different than Apple software on iPod (FIXME here)."

        I worked my ass off to afford my iPod. I'll do with my private property as I please. Once you buy a piece of hardware it's yours and nothing less. Granted, your warranty will be void, but that's a separate issue.

      • Did I sign some kind of contract before they let me walk out with my iPod from the store? If not, I can do anything I want with my own device, and consult/pay other people for help. Even Apple realized that and released new firmware rather than sueing Real.
    • "Perhaps it would be wiser to adopt something Open Source such as OpenBSD instead; it's a text-only environment, so the lack of graphical support would be a minor problem at best..."

      When did OpenBSD not have 'graphical support'? I'm writing this from OpenBSD with X.org.
    • While there is a lot of potential in iPods and similar devices, many of these potential uses seem to be far from optimal.

      I'm not sure why I'd read USENET postings on anything, much less an iPod. The thing was designed for music, for many people, their entire collections, thus it wasn't designed for handling a lot of text. I have a Palm too and I find it a chore to read on that too, despite having a much larger screen.

  • Cached page... provided by - Google. (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Ayhh...
    Sorry! The wiki is experiencing some technical difficulties, and cannot contact the database server.
    Too many connections

    Here is the link to cached page:
    http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:yV2MBr7DjzQJ: www.ipodlinux.org/index.php/ [64.233.161.104]
    • They should have made a static html 'image' of the site when they realised that a slashdotting was in progress - it would mean they couldn't maintain an up-to-the-minute accurate wiki, but they would only have to do this for a few hours until the slashdotting recedes. Then switch back to their database-accessing monster ;)

  • Already down (Score:5, Funny)

    by Stevyn ( 691306 ) on Monday December 27, 2004 @09:14PM (#11196481)
    I think they were hosting the site on an iPod.

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Monday December 27, 2004 @09:20PM (#11196495)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • I think the ARM processor would make that a complicated affair. The accumulated man-hours of development would be greater than all the man-hours of entertainment the community would get from it. But yes, I agree with you in principle ;)

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by account_deleted ( 4530225 )
        Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • I think the ARM processor would make that a complicated affair.

        I doubt it. If the ARM in the iPod can play MP3s in software, it's at least as fast as first-generation PowerPCs, which were emulating 68040s with decent performance.

  • Slashdotted, article text (anon, no karma whoring) (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 27, 2004 @09:21PM (#11196501)
    Sorry! The wiki is experiencing some technical difficulties, and cannot contact the database server.
    Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/var/lib/mysql/mysql.sock' (11)

  • Holy crap. What DOESN'T Linux run on? (Score:5, Funny)

    by crazyphilman ( 609923 ) on Monday December 27, 2004 @09:24PM (#11196518) Journal
    I mean, my GOD. It's almost like NetBSD. Next thing you know, there'll be Linux vibrators!

    Hmm...

    Suddenly I want to be a sysadmin!

  • Progress (Score:5, Funny)

    by Cereal Box ( 4286 ) on Monday December 27, 2004 @09:41PM (#11196599)
    In a nutshell, the reviewer finds that the iPodLinux Project has progressed a long way from its early proof-of-concept days.

    Looks like it has support for the "back" and "stop" buttons. Support for the "play" button should be available shortly. But it plays OGG!
    • Who needs play when you have PONG! [sourceforge.net]
      and technically, it doesn't play ogg. It will play mp3's though. and play a number of games... but ogg support? no... it will make mp3s too, but play oggs? no. Guess they need more people working on it or something.
  • So if I run a thousand of these in parallel do I get a microcomputer instead of a supercomputer?

  • Question of OGG Support (Score:5, Informative)

    by Kalak ( 260968 ) on Monday December 27, 2004 @10:04PM (#11196681) Homepage Journal
    Since every time a media player is mentioned on /., and this is an iPod running Linux, and 95% of my collection is in ogg, etc. I've karma whore by posting this link [64.233.161.104] to the currently /.ed iPod Linux Wiki FAQ. In short, here's the answer, and there is no reason, from either the site or TFA to change it (TFA says nothing about ogg.) No mailing list or forums available.

    Note: Linux != ogg. If your iPod runs linux, that does not mean everything you can run in mplayer will suddenly work on your iPod as some seem to be suggesting.

    Short version (from the Wiki):

    Is there an OGG player?

    The Tremor (http://www.xiph.org/ogg/vorbis/) player is running at about 80% real-time.

    • Re:Question of OGG Support (Score:4, Informative)

      by seanadams.com ( 463190 ) * on Monday December 27, 2004 @11:40PM (#11197197) Homepage
      The Tremor (http://www.xiph.org/ogg/vorbis/) player is running at about 80% real-time.

      First of all, an a/v codec that runs at 80% of real time is about as useful as an internal combustion engine that achieves 80% of the power needed to turn the crankshaft around for the next stroke. Ie not useful at all. Get tremor running fast, and then it's interesting.

      Secondly, few people understand exactly why ogg is so far behind mp3/wma/aac in terms of adoption. It's not because the commercial enterprises are "anti-OSS". It's because ogg was designed from the get-go to run on PCs and not embedded systems.

      I have personally looked at Tremor, with the goal of porting it to an embedded audio player, and found it to be very poorly designed in that it requires large amounts of fast on-chip memory, which is usually not present on embedded devices. Codecs like MP3 and WMA were carefully designed to work on embedded DSPs and this is one of many reasons why you'll find these codecs, and not Ogg, on all kinds of devices.

      Sorry ogg fans. It's not political. Your favorite codec kind of sucks.

      • Re:Question of OGG Support (Score:5, Informative)

        by Unknown Lamer ( 78415 ) <clintonNO@SPAMunknownlamer.org> on Monday December 27, 2004 @11:54PM (#11197247) Homepage Journal

        The Neuros version of Tremor runs on a TI DSP that has access to 64K of memory (total, for the code and data).

        It works fine. The source [sf.net] is available too.

      • With apologies to the grandparent post, I just realized that "80% of realtime" could be taken to mean that either a) it gets 80% of the work done in the requisite time or b) it gets the requisite work done in 80% of the given time.

        I probably took it the wrong way. Nonetheless, quite a bit of detail about the particular architecture, and other system requirements has been omitted here, and I stand by my points regarding memory requirements.

        Memory bandwidth is a big issue with any kind of codec. Confining t

      • Re:Question of OGG Support (Score:4, Informative)

        by YggdrasilOS ( 713459 ) on Tuesday December 28, 2004 @12:44AM (#11197438) Homepage

        ...It's because ogg was designed from the get-go to run on PCs and not embedded systems.

        So I guess iRiver missed the memo huh? They have support for OGG on almost all of their flash players, and all of their HDD players.

        Click here [iriveramerica.com] if you doubt.

        The MP3 codec was not, in fact designed to run on portable systems, indeed it was never intended to be used separately from the MPEG-1 Video codec at all! Fraunhofer IIs simply came up with an audio codec that would pair well with MPEG's high-level video compression, someone figured out how to separate the stream into its own file, WinAmp came along, and presto, new music format.

        In fact, because of its kludgy origin, the MP3 spec lacks many features that would make life easier, including (exemplia gratis) a proper indexing system--hence the seeking weirdness and sometimes fugly playback that plagues VBR-MP3 files.

        The OGG container-file format and Vorbis encoder were designed to address these issues, as well as to provide a Free (speech & beer) and Open alternative to MP3, which is after all, property of Fraunhofer IIs.

        OGG's non-popularity as a music format is attributable to two things:

        1. obscurity, and
        2. the "good enough" factor.

        As a FOSS-developed format, OGG hasn't got the corporate backing (and advertising) that MP3 and WMA/ASF have. Therefore, not many have heard of it, outside of techie circles.

        Even beside that, many who do hear of OGG Vorbis will often casually dismiss it, saying "MP3 is good enough for me". A heresy for the /. set, to be sure, but many people simply don't have the time/energy/interest to pursue a better alternative when a functional alternative is staring them in the face.

        OGG support is nowhere near as hard to do as you make out, it's simply not done as often. Please do at least a little checking before you post such flamebait. (hint: try looking here [hydrogenaudio.org] or possibly here [vorbis.com]

        • So I guess iRiver missed the memo huh? They have support for OGG on almost all of their flash players, and all of their HDD players.

          Click here if you doubt.

          I don't doubt at all. But "only on iRiver" is pretty damn obscure when you cosinder the myriad of aac/mp3/wma players out there,


          The MP3 codec was not, in fact designed to run on portable systems, indeed it was never intended to be used separately from the MPEG-1 Video codec at all! Fraunhofer IIs simply came up with an audio codec that would pair w
          • The OGG container-file format and Vorbis encoder

            Yes, please excuse my misuse of these ridiculously confusing names,

            Yeah, Quicktime container and Sorenson codec are sooo much more transparent that I can tell what someone is talking about from the sound of it alone.

  • support linux companies instead (Score:5, Insightful)

    by jeif1k ( 809151 ) on Monday December 27, 2004 @10:17PM (#11196738)
    There are several nice disk-based MP3/ogg players out there that already run Linux out of the box. You can save yourself a lot of trouble, get a more functional device, and support FOSS by buying one of those. Apple's iPod just isn't built for Linux and Apple clearly doesn't want you to run a FOSS OS on it (otherwise they would have shipped it with one).
  • I notice it records 44.1 kHz uncompressed RAW, doesn't say how many bits, and it's only mono. If only the iPods could record CD quality stereo, it would be the ultimate concert bootleg tool. I suspect Apple deliberately built in this limitation, they knew someone would crack this device eventually.
  • Their FAQ seems to be missing a serious question... Can I install this on my ipod without using a mac runnning osX? I'd be interested to check out their project, especially since a big drop fuxored my ipod hd requiring me to custom partition around the corruption in order to even use it as a small firewire drive. But, if I have to get access to somethign that boots osX just to install linux on my ipod I just don't think it's gonna happen. You'd think that they'd make the installer run under linux..
    • There's an easy to use installer for Mac and Windows. For Linux it's currently in the stage of "we assume you know what you're doing" sort of thing. Basically it's a simple as building a disk image with the right stuff and dd'ing it to the thing. I suggest reading the forums at the ipodlinux site.
      • I made the mistake of looking for info on the sourceforge page linked in the headline. After locating the wiki I found all the info I needed... Too bad it won't work in my situation since the first 8 gigs of my hard drive won't read meaning the IPOD won't boot any OS from the HD since it's firmware tells it to start looking at the begining of the disk, nto the begining of the first partition... C'est La Vie

  • Recording audio and iPod-to-iPod sharing (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Linuxathome ( 242573 ) on Monday December 27, 2004 @11:24PM (#11197132) Homepage Journal
    Possible iPod-to-iPod file transfer. This is currently under development, and is very possible. Not only will the iPod be able to access other iPods, running Linux or not, but it will be able to read from and write to Firewire and USB 2.0 mass storage devices.


    Sounds like the iPod will trump the USB external master storage device [slashdot.org] that slashdot just recently mentioned to us. Wouldn't it be cool to be able to move media from a USB all-in-one media reader to the iPod directly without the need of a computer? You could be taking pictures with a 16megapixel Canon and not worry about storage space as long as you have your iPod around. I'm gonna keep my eye on the development of this program. On top of that, recording audio with the left earphone bud is also another cool feature.

  • The short version... (Score:5, Informative)

    by Otto ( 17870 ) on Tuesday December 28, 2004 @12:06AM (#11197292) Homepage Journal
    The short version of the state of iPodLinux: It does work, and shows a lot of potential, but it's not quite useful as the sole OS for your iPod yet.

    A lot of development has been focused on the eye candy. Games, interface, that sort of thing.

    What is really needed is some kernel and hardware hacker type guys who can get stuff working underneath all the interface and eye candy so as to make it actually useful for everyday use. Case in point: The iPod has a dual processor sort of thing. In the Apple firmware, the secondary processor is more or less devoted to audio decoding. That's not yet working on the iPodLinux kernel, instead the second processor is heavily underused and thus it's basically incapable of playing back high bitrate MP3s or AACs or things along those lines. Sorting that out would be a big step.

    Looks and such are easy to program (hard to get right, but easy to actually do). Getting the thing to live up to its maximum potential is the hard part.

    Help is gladly accepted, BTW. :)

  • Slashdot Has Been Blocked Due To Abuse
    Donate
    The best way to show your appreciation for the project is to make a donation. Funds are used to purchase newer iPods for the development team to port linux onto. Your contributions will help expand ipodlinux onto Apple's latest innovations such as the iPod mini, the click wheel iPod (4th gen) and iPod photo.

    Please try again later.
    If your servers can't handle the load, say so.
    Don't accuse newssites and innocent surfers of being 'abusers'...

    • Re:So now I'm an abuser (Score:4, Insightful)

      by pherris ( 314792 ) on Tuesday December 28, 2004 @09:59AM (#11199185) Homepage Journal
      Don't accuse newssites and innocent surfers of being 'abusers'...

      I really don't think they mean to label visitors as being "abusers". It seems more like a poorly worded statement written in great haste (no doubt as their server was smoking and their ISP was freaking out). The site is cohosted hosted with theplanet.com and I'm pretty sure ipodlinix.org will either have to pay for the extra bandwidth use caused by this /. article or atleast shut down for a while. Money I'm sure they don't have. To add insult to injury their front index page is dynamically generated via php causing an extra, much unneeded load on the server.

      Since /. is a commercial site and attempts to generate revenue from advertising IMO the responsible and moral thing to do would be to try to do something to minimize it's impact on smaller sites. Maybe offer to mirror the site for a few days. In short, is it fair for /. to make money for every page view while the FOSS project site in question loses what little money they have for every corresponding page view? IMO, no.

      /. atleast needs to think about warning sites that they will be "featured" in an article and offer to use a site caching service like Coral [nyu.edu]. Or warn the site to "Coralize" themselves quickly to minimize damage.

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