Verizon-Pushed WiFi Bill Becomes Law in PA 397
Cryofan writes "A Wall Street Journal article (via freepress) tells the sad tale of how legislation barring PA municipalities from offering paid telecom services was signed into law. 'Pennsylvania Gov. Edward G. Rendell said late Tuesday night that he had signed into law a large telecommunications bill placing severe restrictions on the ability of cities and towns to offer telecommunications services, an item that was heavily lobbied by Verizon Communications Inc. and other big telephone companies in similar legislation across the country.'" (Also mentioned last week.)
FCC regulation? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:FCC regulation? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:FCC regulation? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:FCC regulation? (Score:3, Informative)
Actually, it's a law that dictates local governments can't make their own low-cost or free wifi access for it's citizens until the telco's get a crack at it. If the telco says no, the gov's can go ahead. I might be off about this, but it's what I remember reading in the WSJ yesterday. It might be to keep government from dominating communications services, but either way, it APPEARS to SUCK.
Re:FCC regulation? (Score:5, Informative)
Apologize for responding to my own post, but I found the WSJ article I was reading the other day...
"The telecom companies argue that it is unfair for them to have to compete against the government. They say that the legislation enables them to improve service to their customers by investing in their networks. "If we put that money at risk, and here comes government to compete against us, with advantages that government has -- not paying taxes, access to capital at good rates
I guess they kinda have a point.
Re:FCC regulation? (Score:3, Insightful)
Comes up whenever the government wants to do something like build housing and other "public works" that the private sector also provides. Government doesn't provide telephone service, for example.
However, I don't see anything wrong with a fairly low level service that is free, and the private sector provides higher speed, secure service. Problem right now is that 802.11b is pretty darn good for general use, so its hard to segment out a role for the private sector if this is free.
Re:FCC regulation? (Score:4, Interesting)
The irony in all of this is that for nearly a century the phone company was a legal monopoly established and regulated by the Federal Government. Congress was correct in their initial assumptions that a. the private sector was better suited to the task from an efficiency perspective and b. the established provider would need careful regulation and monitoring, with appropriate quality-of-service standards. Whatever else you want to say about the old Ma Bell
Be that as it many, we now have a private telecom provider, Verizon, coming back and convincing the government (albeit a state one, but the precedent has been set) that said government has no interest in providing a modern telecommunications service. It was the government that originally made phone service available to all, and required that it be priced at a level that wouldn't leave anyone out in the cold.
What's worse, given the way the RBOCs have been consolidating lately, it looks like we're heading back to the days of a monopolized telephone system, but without the kind of oversight that such a system really needs. The idea of tax dollars being used to support something as critical to our lives and economy as telecommunications isn't really problematic: all governments spend our money on far less useful things every day. If Verizon can't take the competition they should just find some other industry to monopolize, rather than getting laws custom-written to eliminate that competition. They've taken a page out of the MPAA's book it seems, and frankly I'm sick of that kind of behavior.
No, they don't. (Score:5, Interesting)
Bullshit. Coca-Cola could make the same argument about the government interfering with their ability to make a profit of Disanti water because, shucks, the public water utilities are hurting their ability to compete.
Communications, in this day and age, are as vital a resource as water and transportation. Leaving it in the hands of a few private organizations to implement when and where they see fit (e.g., when and where they can make a profit) is, to put it blundly, bullshit.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:FCC regulation? (Score:2)
I'm not sure, but it might be possible that if the FCC stepped in they would rule against the government, since this spectrum is not set aside for federal use like other chunks.
Are you missing something? Yeah, you are! (Score:2)
We need to have BAD THINGS happen to politicians and other government officials when they sell us out to the corporations. If nothing bad happens to them, and there is so much to gain for these politicians/bureaucrats (bribes, "donations", ultra-lucrative lobbying positions, "grants",etc) and no negative consequences, why not do it?
There is a reason why you or I do not
Ahhh, the essence of Capitalism... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Ahhh, the essence of Capitalism... (Score:5, Insightful)
And when the big corporations lobby for preferential legislation (which they do frequently), it's not capitalism, it's socialism. In capitalism the government can't hinder or support any private entity: their fates are left to the market to decide.
Re:Ahhh, the essence of Capitalism... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Ahhh, the essence of Capitalism... (Score:5, Insightful)
Have you lost sight of the fact that Verizon is just not some private sector company? The government(s) have given the phone company MONOPOLY status. This same Verizon has done everything in its lobbying power to prevent other private companies from competing with them. I think there is a pretty long history that demonstrates Verizon has no interest in serving the public in a broad approach; they just want to skim the 'cheaper to service' customers. The PA initiative is visionary--like rural electrification. It realizes, to use the words of the business person, that in order to be competitive in todays global enconomy in an information age, residents of the city need to be part of the information haves, not have nots.
Remember that Verizon fought tooth and nail in the states it 'serves' to prevent ISDN (and later DSL) from being considering a non-discretionary service subject to public utility regulation which I think would have resulted in much broader roll-out. Now that a city realizes that Verizon has no plans to roll out service to everyone, they want to provide it themselves as an infrastructure.
Philly is just trying to be competitive. Its just like how cities/states give tax incentives for people to move their businesses there.
The monolopy Verizon has is absurd. Here in Maryland, a long time ago, Verizon upgraded from analog to digital switches (SS7). The cost of that upgrade was allowed to be pass on to the rate payer with promises of new digital features for POTS and ISDN capability. Despite the ratepayer paying for the SS7 infrastructue, Verizon started charging outrageous fees ($3.50 for Caller ID per month, etc) for software capabilities we had to pay for. Verizon has no real interest in serving all the people in Philly--they would much rather implement 'caller ringtones' that they can charge $2 bucks a month for. I wish I had a money machine like that.
Re:FCC regulation? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:FCC regulation? (Score:2)
Re:FCC regulation? (Score:2)
Cities and towns strike back (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Cities and towns strike back (Score:3, Insightful)
We have those sorts of community wireless projects out here in the bay area already in some places, but it isn't ubiquitous enough yet. That said, there are only a couple of places in downtown Santa Cruz where I can't see an open wireless c
Quite right, it's anti competitive & monopolis (Score:2, Funny)
*removes tongue from cheek*
Re:Quite right, it's anti competitive & monopo (Score:5, Interesting)
Well, before wireless, it was wired. In 1995, the State of Texas passed a bill that prevented the City of Austin from string fiber optic between its high-schools, libraries, fire stations, police stations, and power substations.
Seems that Southwestern Bell though it mighty uncompetitive of the City of Austin to replace old crappy 9600 baud modems with something that would be faster *and* cheaper! Of course, the Texas Leg voted was anti-people back then too.
Re:Quite right, it's anti competitive & monopo (Score:3, Interesting)
Big Ed (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Big Ed (Score:2)
Re:Big Ed (Score:2)
Re:Big Ed (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Big Ed (Score:3, Interesting)
That's absolutely right! There's no reason in the world that governments should provide any [nyc.ny.us] services [nyc.gov] whatsoever that can be provided by private entities.
Please!
Although they are often unfair and inefficient, governments can and do provide some vital services when the private sector is unwilling or unable to do so. During the 30's, millions of people got power and paved roads thanks to the Tennessee Valley
Re:Big Ed (Score:2)
Private Sewers, Ho!
And Big Business does it again... (Score:2, Interesting)
Correct me if I'm wrong but what PA was trying to do was "For the people, by the people" and what Verizon is trying to do is "For Verizon's pocket book, by the money of the people".
Recently a lot of these kinds of laws have really irritated me by the fact that the laws as they were ogriginally intended gave consumers, the people, the ability to actually do
Re:And Big Business does it again... (Score:2)
They made you sign a lease contract before you paid them and took it home? Why did you do that, when you can buy an X-Box from any number of stores?
my software almost all of it on "lease"
See above. Unless you signed a contract stating otherwise (click-through EULAs not having widely found to be legitimate contracts), you own your copy of the software. Anyone who tells you otherwise has ulterior motives.
Re:And Big Business does it again... (Score:2)
Philadelphia free WI-FI? (Score:2)
Could the purpose of this be specifically to kill that off?
Re:Philadelphia free WI-FI? (Score:2)
http://www.forbes.com/home/feeds/ap/2004/11/30/ap
Knee Jerk reaction, and well thought about reactio (Score:2)
But once i thought about it, i'd rather verizon (et al.) worked cooporatively with city governments. City governments want city wide wifi, verizon could do it, add a few dollars here and there, wam bam. Less complaints from verizon, and nearly free wifi. I'm a fan.
At least verizon goes to bat against other corporate conglomorates. (even though they lost that whole subpoena thing.)
Re:Knee Jerk reaction, and well thought about reac (Score:2)
But the bill would seem to give Verizon far too much leverage in any negotiations, because it takes away alternatives from the city. In other words, what does this bill do to ensure Verzon will "work cooperatively"?
To make ana analogy, do you think your car repair bills would increase or decrease if your s
Re:Knee Jerk reaction, and well thought about reac (Score:2)
http://www.verdant.net/natlcity.htm [verdant.net]
But nearly free is still not free, right? I can imagine Verizon's idea of 'free' WiFi: Ad-bloated, tracked, data mined and generally so cumbersome as to make you want to pay for a service that could be free.
I prefer that my local government, that I have *a teensy* bit of say in control this much more than Verizon.
Re:Knee Jerk reaction, and well thought about reac (Score:2)
Judging by the junk mail I get from SBC I figure they could build free wi-fi for an entire city for the price of what they spend on advertising themselves.
Skill OK for non-govt. groups (Score:5, Informative)
So a motivated group of citizens can still create a city wide wireless network, it's just the local governments that can't. (I wonder if the govt. can give grants to the citizens... that'd be a nice work-around)
Skill OK for non-govt. groups-Libertarian. (Score:2, Insightful)
That's quite fair (especially from a libertarian standpoint). Why should a government institution under threat of the gun dictate that my money go to WiFi?
Re:Skill OK for non-govt. groups (Score:3, Interesting)
The future of wifi is supposed to be an emergent thing called intelligent Mesh Networking [communitynetworking.org], where each new private/public node contributes some of its resources to a networked fabric, rather than interfering with it like 802.11a/b/g. The more nodes (w/ caching) the better (like BitTorrent).
Of course, the major "drawback" of bottom-up mesh networking --besides the routing being somewhat complicat
Exception made for Philadelphia (Score:5, Informative)
~Trick
What the fuck? (Score:4, Insightful)
Can I make a deal with Smith & Wesson to legally shoot the people who made those laws?
More seriously - if this is a law generally governing how the government can (or can't) compete with commercial wireless services, how the hell can one company give the city the OK to break the law? If the law is actually written to prevent competition with Verizon specifically, how can PA citizens not be rebelling?
Re:Exception made for Philadelphia (Score:4, Interesting)
http://www.newnetworks.com/Libertybellstolen.htm [newnetworks.com]
Sheesh! Pennsylvania (aka Pennsyltucky) is Philly and Pittsburg with Alabama in between. If you've ever seen our legislature in session, the bib overalls might clue you in as to how technically savvy those guys are.
Even my own rep. LOVES Verizon. I attended a breakfast Q&A he held, and asked about the Broadband deal and why the legislature amended the requirements for Verizon at MY expense. He got pissed and started bitching to the masses about how he gets all sorts of mail critical of Verizon, but he thinks they are just great. He also "explained" that it would have cost Verizon huge amounts of money to roll out fiber to rural and mountainous areas that don't need it.
So, I asked what the taxpayers got for all that money because Verizon just provided DSL over existing copper. Next question, please!
Play-by-Play (Score:5, Insightful)
There are also good reasons for this (Score:3, Insightful)
Do you really want your government running any kind of telecom infrastructure? I mean, I am all for "services for the people" and all that jazz but on the other side, I am also for smaller government.
WiFi *could* be used as just one more reason to take more of my hard earned money. This bill assures that won't happen.
(p.s. I am against this bill but I am just playing the devil's advocate because issues are rarely black and white. More like lukewarm grey.)
Would you have phone service now...? (Score:4, Interesting)
I don't mind the private sector but i do think that broadband providers should have to do an all or nothing approach. Making sure that all their customers have DSL availability.
Re:Would you have phone service now...? (Score:2)
Of course the govt should fund things. That's what we pay taxes for and that's what the congress critters fight over. But that is very different than your gov't funding, establishing, and running a WiFi network.
Typical (Score:4, Informative)
Verizon struck a landmark deal with the state of Pennsylvania to provide 45MB/s Symmetrical Fiber to the entire state. Verizon recieved over $2 Billion from Pennsylvania but Verizon did not come close to meeting its agreement - wire 50% of PA with 45MB/s Symmetrical Fiber by the end of 2004. The state allowed Verizon to completely ignore the original agreement and keep all the financial incentives. http://www.broadbandreports.com/shownews/30544 [broadbandreports.com]
Re:Typical (Score:3, Funny)
This is typical of Pennsylvania's legislature to bendover backwards in favor of Verizon.
You misspelled "forwards"
So this means... (Score:2)
I want free WiFi from the city (Score:2)
Isn't It Obvious? (Score:3, Insightful)
VZ: Wi-Fi for every citizen, what a great Idea!
PA: Yeah, we're going to give it away to attract
a modern crowd.
VZ: Oh, yeah, the billions in infrastructure that
we put into your state, the jobs, tax revenue,
all that stuff, you still want that don't you?
It's not necessarily 'selling out', or 'paid off politicians', just legit local politics. States and towns have been whoring to business forever, in various incarnations. In the poli minds, it's better to have positive corporate presence than a few towns with wi-fi. Especially since the assets will be trash in 10 years, as wireless high-speed internet supplants it, delivered by none other than VZ.
Politics... (Score:2, Funny)
Proving He's the Devil! (Score:2, Funny)
Gov. Rendell disagrees with the legislature and the bill but signs it anyway promising to personally help local communities to defy the law with his approval....?
For an encore, Gov. Rendell will legalize the molestation of boys but promises to personally protect young boys from molestation!
Why did I bother voting? (Score:4, Insightful)
Its not so much like this is a bad law so much as corporations really have taken over (in place of the big churches) because they pay almost no taxes (because they know how to work the system) and they are both considered persons under the law regarding free expression but also act as a shield by their owners and executives through which great personal wealth can be created with no personal responsibility.
Lets face it. The BOD of Verizon or Haliburton could order me killed tommorrow and they would probably never even be charged. So much for a system of laws.
Re:Why did I bother voting? (Score:3, Insightful)
In a word, no.
Democracy was a great experiment but now it's dead. Vast majority of the pupulation of the US now lives in a house district where the candidate from one party wins overwhelmingly. The party made sure the district got drawn that way.
Vast majority of Americans now live in a state which always votes for the candidate of one party for president.
Vast majority of Americans live in a state who always votes for the senator from one party.
In America anyway
Re:Why did I bother voting? (Score:3)
Re:Why did I bother voting? (Score:3, Interesting)
B) Libertarianism isn't a viable opertunity, since it allows corporations to be bigger bastards than they are now, with a complete lack of regulation. And the libertarian embrace of Randian self interest will also lead to a further degradation of morality, and social reponcibility.
Though my co-responder does have a point, the Green Party is a safe alternative to politics as usual, though sadly it is as viable as
Re:Why did I bother voting? - They want you to. (Score:3, Insightful)
I honestly believe that our democracy is an illusion, and we're taught to vote in our schools in order to make us complacent. Voting makes people feel as if they have "ownership" of the system, though our government is evidently owned by corporations.
We're all taught to legitimize the government. That way, when our government commits atrocities, it's with the implicit agreement of the American people. The myth that every man (or woman) can become president is taught to children, whether the sons of the
Aquafina? (Score:2, Funny)
- Kevin
Re:Aquafina? (Score:2)
Hmmm - Edward G. Rendell (Score:2)
Good DEAL! (Score:2)
Thats what they're doing, right?
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD... (Score:3, Insightful)
I happen to agree with this move. The government should not be in the business of providing non-essential services. Government-run businesses do not have to make a profit, and actually don't even have to break even. Private companies on the other hand, have to make a profit to survive. It would be unfair competition.
-Nick
And it's the innovators who get the shaft (Score:2)
Our politicians are bought and paid for.... (Score:4, Informative)
Big donors power governor's big dance
By John Sullivan and Rose Ciotta
Inquirer Staff Writers
Gov. Rendell raised more than $2.5 million from about 200 private donors for his inaugural bash, with much of the money flowing from corporations, trade unions, lawyers and professional associations.
Contributors to the big party included many who gave heavily to Rendell's campaign for governor, some who supported his opponents, and others who have earned millions of dollars from state contracts.
There were five categories of donors, with the highest, an elite list of 15, paying $50,000 each to earn "benefactor" status.
Some of the top corporate donors included Comcast, Unisys, Verizon and SAP Public Services.
Organizers of the event, which was estimated to cost more than $3 million, said donors did not earn special access to Rendell. [HAHAHA! yeah, right.]
zerg (Score:2)
As long as Democrats [state.pa.us] keep acting like Republican light, the people will keep voting for Republicans.
The next time anyone meets Gov. Rendell, ask him where his testicles are.
This could pave the way for more changes (Score:2)
Private/Public companies lobby the government to pass law against the government offering competing services giving the argument that it could ruin or harm their businesses. I can see a certain level of logic and how this might even protect jobs...but...
What does that say about UPS/FedEX and others lobbying for similar law for the purpose of having the USPS shut down... after all, it's a direct competitor with these commercial enterprises.
I agree it ain't go
What? (Score:5, Insightful)
I mean, the trend is leaning more and more corporate every year. When is voting going to become a show when what really matters is corporate backing? Oh wait, its half way there already.
Don't like what your customers are doing with your products? Write a law against them, push it through the court. Soon, your opposition is arrested or forced to stop doing what you don't like.
Don't like another business? Write a law against them, push it through the court. Soon, your opposition is arrested or forced out of business.
Now That the FCC's OKed Pringles Cans (Score:2)
Mmmm, I love the smell of facism in the morning (Score:2)
Oh, this is soooo easy! (Score:2)
Doesn't (Score:3, Insightful)
Why is that a sad story? (Score:2)
Today the governor of Pennsylvania signed a law barring municipalities from taxing their citizens and forcing them to pay for telecom access regardless of whether they want it or use it.
It was hailed as a victory for taxpayers, because the planned system in Philladelphia was expected to cost far more per "customer" than the same level of service would cost from a private firm.
Given the wonderful job government does delivering the mail, collecting tax
Re:In Verizon Country... (Score:2)
Re:In Verizon Country... (Score:2)
Re:In Verizon Country... (Score:2)
Re:In Verizon Country... (Score:2, Funny)
Well as a Korean I don't find it at all funny, not only it's offensive but because where I come from jokes are only for old people.
Re:Whats next?, no state-run auto manufacturers? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Whats next?, no state-run auto manufacturers? (Score:2)
Maybe because inefficiency doesn't matter when you can use armed robbery (i.e., taxes) to collect your fees, rather than having to provide a valuable service that people are willing pay for?
Maybe it's because with the municipal wireless ISP doing a crappy-but-nearly-adequate job, there just won't be enough demand to induce Verizon to enter the market? Especially since Verizon
Re:Whats next?, no state-run auto manufacturers? (Score:2, Insightful)
Bottom line; if Verizon did such a terrible job, and there was actual *demand* for the service, competitors like Cingular, SBC, etc would simply step in and compete.
There's no monopoly (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Anti-Trust Possible? (Score:2)
Technically speaking, I don't think this would be considered fodder for an anti-trust suit. Their grounds for doing this is to prevent government-created (read: government subsidized) services competing with their privately owned and operated services. I can agree with this thinking. If I own a company that profits from providin
Re:Anti-Trust Possible? (Score:2)
Re:Anti-Trust Possible? (Score:2)
Re:Anti-Trust Possible? (Score:5, Interesting)
As a service becomes fundamentally essential to the equality of the people, it must either become so inexpensive that it is affordable by all (e.g. the commoditization of the industry through a huge number of players) or it must become socialized. If one of these two things doesn't happen, it will, over time, result in the gap between the haves and the have-nots becoming progressively larger and the gradual erosion of the middle class.
While "equality at all costs" is not a virtue, equality in at least the basic requirements to function in a modern society is a necessity.
Re:Anti-Trust Possible? (Score:2)
I'm sure you don't, but tough shit. If I'm a citizen, I don't think my town should be legally obligated to stay out of any market you feel like making a profit in. Tell it to the water authority!
Re:I see Verizon's point of view... (Score:5, Insightful)
I can't believe the government is funding public libraries, they're taking money from commercial bookstores. Like, OmiGod! And the streets! Woah, they should let go of city maintenance and allow the commercial road surfacing companies to fill in the potholes on the street... But wait, there's more! Why is the police allowed to operate, don't they know that they're taking money away from commercial security providers? Heck why do we have cities to begin with, we could just outsource everything to India...
Wait...
I'm dashing off to the patent office with a big grin on my face...
Re:I see Verizon's point of view... (Score:2)
Re:I see Verizon's point of view... (Score:2)
Infrastructure, however, much likes roads, water lines, and power grids, could, perhaps even SHOULD be provided by local governments, this in turn would be rented out to private businesses that would provide the actual service, thus paying for the infrastructure.
Perhaps this could still be down in Phily, the government provides the infrastructure for smaller business
Re:I see Verizon's point of view... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:So much for a move to PA for me (Score:2)
Charter isn't the holy grail, but they are a lot better than Comcast in my experience.
Laws like these will allow providers to further consolidate and monopolize their areas. With
Re:The best laws (Score:2)
Re:Dear Verizon (Score:2)
Re:Dear Verizon (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Capitalism (Score:2)
I've felt this way for years, and I'm not even a capitalist!
Re:Capitalism (Score:3, Insightful)
I see this legislation as anti-competiti
Re:Capitalism (Score:3, Insightful)
The same way FedEx and UPS compete with the USPS.
When was the last time you heard of the government offering new, innovative services?
Interstates, police, military, courts - all those are socialist services provided by the US, state, and local governments. And they are more efficient as public services than as private services. Capitalism is great, but there are some things at which it is not as efficient as socialism - things which the US currently us
Re:Monopolies? (Score:3, Interesting)